jazzpiano88 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Fingering has everything to do with finding the easiest, most fluid, most technique ...... ymmv Definitely agree Quote J a z z P i a n o 8 8 -- Yamaha C7D Montage M8x | CP300 | CP4 | SK1-73 | OB6 | Seven K8.2 | 3300 | CPSv.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 C major scale is the most important scale, after the key of F of course. They are a fundamental necessity. Play them with various fingerings not just Hanon"s! The tradition of practicing scales has been taught completely wrong, to the point where most folks can"t solo playing just scale outlines. I can play excellent bebop solos only playing scale. Donna Lee chords are ideal. I got that from Barry Harris and he"s the only teacher that has shown how a good solo can be rendered only with scale outlining. It"s clever and simple really. And the results are very musical, I would have no shame playing strictly scale outlines on a gig. Only a trained musician would notice. As a teacher, Only Barry Harris found the key to it. It"s dead simple really. Quote Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 In the right hand you have to pass the thumb on the way up, that's where it gets hard . On the way down the left hand has the tough job. Quote "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 In the right hand you have to pass the thumb on the way up, that's where it gets hard . On the way down the left hand has the tough job. Excellent point. That really sums up the key to fingerings. I"m being serious. Quote Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou_NC Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 So glad I learned keyboard by taking organ lessons instead of piano lessons. I only had to learn about 100 chords for my left hand, instead of scales! Lou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedar Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Scales are great. And I say that as someone with very poor, inconsistent practice habits. I'll go weeks or months without practicing scales, but when I return to them, my playing always feels so much sharper. One aside: when practicing scales, I recommend playing as triplets. I find helps to force one to play more evenly (or at least makes flaws and inconsistencies more apparent), Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 So glad I learned keyboard by taking organ lessons instead of piano lessons. I only had to learn about 100 chords for my left hand, instead of scales! Lou lol - teacher wasn"t big on Bach? What about your feet? Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Scales are great. And I say that as someone with very poor, inconsistent practice habits. I'll go weeks or months without practicing scales, but when I return to them, my playing always feels so much sharper. One aside: when practicing scales, I recommend playing as triplets. I find helps to force one to play more evenly (or at least makes flaws and inconsistencies more apparent), If already playing as triplets, I"d suggest do lots of rhythmic patterns to develop a feel for pulling out any pattern you desire for the melodies that pop into your soloing mind. Play them in quarters, eighths, triplets, swing eights, sixteenths, and mix and match. Then try playing them over various left hand accompaniment patterns - like all the great New Orleans left hand styles. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 In the right hand you have to pass the thumb on the way up, that's where it gets hard . On the way down the left hand has the tough job. Excellent point. That really sums up the key to fingerings. I"m being serious. Thanks a lot of keyboard player discount scales and the truth of it is that it helps soloing. That's the zen of the whole thing. It directly or indirectly affects your playing. Quote "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 IMHO, scales are like working out. They are only half of the routine. A boxer works out with weights but then spends hours on all the other important elements, which I would say are more important. Quote AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou_NC Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 What about my feet? My teacher was big on "roots and fifths". Did I mention that my lessons were on a spinet organ (rental)? I do wish sometimes that I was able to learn on a full pedalboard, and learn some more "interesting" approaches to pedal bass. Lou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 IMHO, scales are like working out. They are only half of the routine. A boxer works out with weights but then spends hours on all the other important elements, which I would say are more important. 1) Offense 2) Defense I think I would equate scales to a boxer learning proper footwork - step-drag and pivot. Quote .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 IMHO, scales are like working out. They are only half of the routine. A boxer works out with weights but then spends hours on all the other important elements, which I would say are more important. 1) Offense 2) Defense I think I would equate scales to a boxer learning proper footwork - step-drag and pivot. Nailed it. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 IMHO, scales are like working out. They are only half of the routine. A boxer works out with weights but then spends hours on all the other important elements, which I would say are more important. 1) Offense 2) Defense I think I would equate scales to a boxer learning proper footwork - step-drag and pivot. Offense - improvisation Defense - comping Quote AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Scale warm ups are like kata in martial arts. Routine repetition of ideal moves. Quote Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Well the difference is there that kata doesn't have anything to do with fighting where as scales have to do with more practical application. Quote "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathOfInsects Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Just to advocate for the Devil a bit, but: Scales alone are not really the step-drag/pivot of instrument playing. They are closer to the jumping rope you do before you start learning moves. They warm you up (after you have mastered them, that is)--that is all. Yes, they give you a default fingering for fast runs that occur in exactly scale-note order, but that is not a very frequent form of playing in any context. More broadly, patterns could be considered the step-drag pivot, since they give you the automatic memory you need to produce in the moment. Scales are a tiny subset of patterns, and IMO once you know them by heart they lose almost most real benefit beyond the very important one of warming you up. Quote Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material. www.joshweinstein.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 I suspect there is a disconnect in applying scales among many players. Scales are continuous melodic seconds. Continuos melodic seconds. These are the most common melodic interval. Seconds dominate most melodic phrases. Next would be a third interval (arpeggios for example). I play my scales in single notes to the 7th, then in melodic thirds, then with a chromatic approach note to each pair, then the enclosures, Then the pivots and so on. Quote Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathOfInsects Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 I suspect there is a disconnect in applying scales among many players. Scales are continuous melodic seconds. Continuos melodic seconds. These are the most common melodic interval. Seconds dominate most melodic phrases. Next would be a third interval (arpeggios for example). I play my scales in single notes to the 7th, then in melodic thirds, then with a chromatic approach note to each pair, then the enclosures, Then the pivots and so on. This is misleading, though. The fingering for scales only applies to runs that span more than 5 consecutive adjacent notes in a particular key, starting with the root, in a single direction, with surrounding phrases that let you use standard scale fingering for that run, and do not require adjusting hand position for the notes that might follow. This is so uncommon as to be meaningless. Quote Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material. www.joshweinstein.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad’Dib Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 Thank you for all the input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tweed Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 I like to practice scales with LH and RH at different note values - eg quarter notes in the LH, eights in the RH, over one/two octaves (LH) and two/four in the right. Also try this with contrary motion, or triplets in the RH etc etc. This mimics what"s going on when playing LH bass, as usually the RH is playing more notes than the LH. Quote Legend Soul 261, Leslie 251, Yamaha UX1, CP4, CK61, Hammond SK1, Ventilator, Privia PX3, Behringer 2600, Korg Triton LE, various guitars and woodwinds, drum kits … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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