C Major scale

[Muad’Dib]

I never realized how something so simple, can be such a challenge! Playing the scale with each hand separately is easy, but getting both hands too work together is the challenge. I really wish my music teachers had drilled scales into my head. So, that I am able to play a scale without thinking about where my fingers should land.

 

Yes! I am going back to the beginning and practice my scales until I can play without thinking about it.

[Gretel]

I practiced this as a kid, but never really understood why this is important. I basically never see two-handed scales in actual music, but certainly short pieces of scales either in the left or right hand. Playing scales with each hand separately therefore certainly makes sense, but two-handedly I just don't know. But of course anything that you practice will make you better also in related fields.

[Joe Muscara]

I played them hands separately for years and struggled to play them hands together. Then one day, BOOM! I was playing them hands together just fine. I don't think I worked on it the usual ways leading up to that, like playing them slowly together.

 

Now, I play them hands together an octave apart, a tenth apart, and a sixth apart as well as in opposite directions.

 

I think a major thing this teaches us is hand independence. Since our hands mirror each other, they have to do different things at different places to play the same notes. Throw in variations like the ones I mentioned and you get even more independence. (But don't start those until you get the basic two-handed scales down.)

[Strays Dave]

Speaking as a pianist for many years now...

 

Practicing scales can be important and valuable in certain situations. It depends what one is playing. One important benefit scale practice is training the fingers and thumbs in playing piano solos - especially in playing right hand runs up or down the piano. The thumb under ascending (I'm talking the RIGHT hand right now). is important in playing up multiple octaves. And the 4th finger over the thumb descending RIGHT hand.

 

As for two hands playing scales, I'd say training the coordination of the brain (the cerebellum I believe) in playing lines in BOTH hands can be valuable. It comes into play when playing Bach Preludes and Fugues (as in the Well-Tempered Clavier) for example. Maybe not two handed scales per se, but independent parts in each hand.

 

I play solo piano and often play an independent left hand bass line. Lately I've been playing around with "Feelin' Alright ?" - similar to the Joe Cocker version. I've been slowing the tempo way down to get it where I can play and sing it - it's that left hand rhythmic groove figure that makes it so tricky. I'd say it's not unlike two handed scale practice - getting it imbedded into that coordination place in the brain.

 

OTOH, if you're NOT playing styles that can benefit from a level of two handed independence....maybe two handed scales aren't really valuable.

[Song80s]

I never realized how something so simple, can be such a challenge! Playing the scale with each hand separately is easy, but getting both hands too work together is the challenge. I really wish my music teachers had drilled scales into my head. So, that I am able to play a scale without thinking about where my fingers should land.

 

Yes! I am going back to the beginning and practice my scales until I can play without thinking about it.

 

 

I agree, its better to not think while playing 2 handed scales. Like a meditative thing.

 

I would ask your music teachers for a refund

[Muad’Dib]

I never realized how something so simple, can be such a challenge! Playing the scale with each hand separately is easy, but getting both hands too work together is the challenge. I really wish my music teachers had drilled scales into my head. So, that I am able to play a scale without thinking about where my fingers should land.

 

Yes! I am going back to the beginning and practice my scales until I can play without thinking about it.

 

 

I agree, its better to not think while playing 2 handed scales. Like a meditative thing.

 

I would ask your music teachers for a refund

 

That might be hard. Since they are deceased.

[Muad’Dib]

I practiced this as a kid, but never really understood why this is important. I basically never see two-handed scales in actual music, but certainly short pieces of scales either in the left or right hand. Playing scales with each hand separately therefore certainly makes sense, but two-handedly I just don't know. But of course anything that you practice will make you better also in related fields.

 

 

It"s brain training!

[Outkaster]

C scale is one of the hardest. Nothing to grab onto. There are tons of runs in the Sonatina's and Sonata's I have been playing this year based on C scales.

[analogman1]

I would suggest supplementing your scale study with some very basic Bach pieces (some of the easier 2 part Inventions come to mind)...they immediately put the benefits of scale practice into good use... Just take them slowly and look for an edition with good fingering suggestions (Alfred masterworks is the edition I have my students purchase).

In my opinion, this would offer a nice balance to the scale studies.

Good luck! You're on a very good path...

[Muad’Dib]

My next challenge is reading sheet music.

[Steve Nathan]

Wax on...Wax off????

[16251]

I have been reconsidering two-hand practice. I went through that pedagogy in music school and of course it is an important element. I never practice that anymore as there are too many jazz lines in every key for me to be better at. My teachers never really pushed me to practice each hand separately, but about six months ago, I decided to practice each hand separately and IMHO is way more important (at least for jazz.) I realized I used the stronger hand to fake through my exercises and I think my brain likes this way of learning (no scientific reasoning.) I think I have been making better progress. 9,999,000 hours to go.

[Muad’Dib]

Wax on...Wax off????

 

Thank you Mr. Miyagi!

 

 

 

What throws me, and a lot of beginners of is the finger crossing. Because my right hand, does not land on the same not as the left.

[Docbop]

Being I'm still beginner stage on piano I've recently gone through this. So my first real teacher, I don't count the local music store teacher I tried for a couple months. Realized they been teaching same books for so long they are on autopilot and get ticked if you ask questions they haven't planned for.

 

So first real teacher was Jazz guy that used to teach at Berklee, he had me working on scales but right hand only. He said don't worry about the left while get there later. So I worked thru all the majors and melodic minors fairly quickly. Then started his Jazz Hanon exercises again right hand only, they were good especially doing them in 12 keys. That really helped start learning the scale patterns. Then we focused on chords in the left hand and voicing leading tunes. I started having some health issues and stopped. At some point I want to start up with him again.

 

A few months later still some health issues I started doing one of the online schools so I could set my own pace. Good school, but both the main teacher had started as kid doing the classical thing, it all the scales and just about everything was both hands. So I am doing pretty good at both hands now and kind of developing that second sense of what the other hand is doing. If I make more mistakes on a scale than I allow myself I slow down, on bad days I go back and do each had separately before doing both hands again. I notice my left hand can't deal with the faster tempos my right can so sometimes I go back and work on left hand only for a few minutes to try and get both hands equal.

 

Also as someone else pointed out and my Jazz teacher too the C scale is hard because it's all white keys and no black keys for reference points. I know sometimes D, G, F get to me because they only have one or two black keys. I'm getting to where I like Db, F#, B because I find playing on the black keys easier for my small hands.

 

Now sightreading two staves that is totally screwing with my head. Decades of guitar and bass my brain is like nope only one stave only please.

[Morrissey]

C scale is one of the hardest. Nothing to grab onto.

 

This. Disfavoring C major is an important milestone in maturation as a player.

[johnchop]

I auditioned for piano performance placement as a freshman in college.

 

The first audition request?

 

'Play a D Major scale.'

 

Been playing D major scaleâand all other keys and minor and other scalesâfor over a decade at that point. Both hands, in thirds, sixths, triplet feel... whatever. 120 bpm... no sweat.

 

I started and had complete hand-brain lock-up. Absolute nightmare.

 

I think I played Debussy after that. Who knows, because f***ing D major.

 

Anyway I ended up majoring in history.

[ElmerJFudd]

Practice incrementally.

 

On C start with the 5 finger position.

Right hand 1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1

 

Then work on your Left 5-4-3-2-1-2-3-4-5

 

Build strength and confidence. Clean hits. Good consistent volume from all 5 fingers.

 

Then start easy with two hands - opposite/contrary motion. Same fingers both hands

Right: 5-4-3-2-1-2-3-4-5

Left: 5-4-3-2-1-2-3-4-5

 

Then go for the gold!

Right: 1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1

Left: 5-4-3-2-1-2-3-4-5

 

Now you"re getting someplace.

Strength, steady beat, independence of fingers.

 

Baby steps. There"s a lot you can develop with your hands flat out in front of you before getting into flipping thumb under or 3 (or 4th) finger over.

[Song80s]

maybe I should switch to bass guitar

 

or better yet, to drums

 

[Dr88s]

As a kid and teenager, I took yearly exams at a local conservatory.

 

Part of the technical syllabus I had to demonstrate each year was a selection of scales and arpeggios. The examiner would, for example, say 'play me a four octave E major scale.'

 

I remember that at the last exam I ever took, at the Collegial level, for the first time ever the examiner gave me a choice, 'play me any four octave major scale you want.'

 

Uninitiated me foolishly chose the C-major scale, thinking it was the easiest, having no black keys, and of course it"s the first scale a beginner learns. Silly me. Collegial level piano candidate me couldn"t get past the second octave without losing it. When I related the story to my piano teacher, he chastised me for choosing C, in retrospect rightly so.

 

Today I"d choose Eb. I half wonder if the examiner knew that I would choose C, just to trip me up.

[MathOfInsects]

In a sane world we'd start with B, which is custom-made for the human hand. But no. We have to hail the god Harmony. All hail Harmony, and may we live forever in the first Circle of 5ths.

[Sospiri]

Paul,

 

Elmer has hit the nail on the head. Get your fingering correct until it becomes second nature. If you get into bad fingering habits you will really struggle to play many runs and phrases. Once you have got into the habit of bad fingering, you will find it very difficult to get out of it. It's the same with typing on say a QWERTY keyboard. Using two or three fingers, you will get up to a certain speed and no further. Maybe typing is not a strict analogy, because it will only mean that you will type much more slowly. When performing on a musical keyboard, a speed and accuracy block puts you at one helluva disadvantage.

[Jazz+]

The final mountain.

The ability to play your right hand lines in unison with your left hand an octave below

 

Scale outline the changes, 'we play to the 7th' Barry Harris.

 

 

Block chords with left hand doubling the melody

[bfields]

Elmer has hit the nail on the head. Get your fingering correct until it becomes second nature. If you get into bad fingering habits you will really struggle to play many runs and phrases.

 

OK, so anyone have favorite fingerings for pentatonics?

 

Because that's one I find myself stumbling over more often. Somehow I rarely feel the urge to play up or down a major scale.

[Jazz+]

I made the most progress in unison playing when I stopped considering fingering. My fingering varies itself on the fly, they find their way. Trust them. I try not to notice what fingering is going on but it works. It takes days of doing it.,. Solo slowly in unison while watching tv.

Bach stuff has nothing to do with it by the way.

[CEB]

Key of C major is hard.

[Docbop]

I made the most progress in unison playing when I stopped considering fingering. My fingering varies itself on the fly, they find their way. Trust them. I try not to notice what fingering is going on but it works. It takes days of doing it.,. Solo slowly in unison while watching tv.

Bach stuff has nothing to do with it by the way.

 

+1

 

I agree the fingering really only good for playing the scales and scale aren't music. I think the real purpose of learn scales fingering is to start learning fingering concepts so when play you can make good fingering decisions. Classical people get hung up on fingering, but most aren't sightreading piece cold or improvising. I read an article a couple weeks ago a classical player was talking about using the C scale type fingering for all scales that was how it was before Clementi came along. Then get into Beringer studies Herbie and other Jazz cats do the focus is on five finger pattern. Phillip exercise more 5 finger independence studies. In fact I watched a video from one of the hardcore Classical sites of this woman playing and sounded great and started watching her fingering and started laughing never seen anyone with pinky and thumbs on black keys so much, but you can't argue with the results.

 

I think it was like guitar was for me was the big step was getting past thinking fingering patterns and just being able to play need to and let the fingers do what they want to get it done. The whole idea in the long runs is to not have to think about this tech stuff so can focus on the music and expressing yourself.

[Baldwin Funster]

I prefer D minor.

[Lou Gehrig Charles]

I half wonder if the examiner knew that I would choose C, just to trip me up.

 

He's secretly laughing inside, knowing full well many or most students choose C. An evil laugh!

[ElmerJFudd]

Fingering has everything to do with finding the easiest, most fluid, most technique solvable way to play something. Our music is made up of chords and scales wether we notice it or not. So, theoretically if we already have a perfected fingering for any scale or chord that comes up, it makes playing something new easier. You can get there by playing a lot of music in a lot of keys. But you can speed things up by supplementing with scale and chord work. Doing so will make playing and reading a lot easier because you build a Toolbox of 'oh I"ve heard/seen/played something like this before'.

 

For minor blues scales I use a lot of 1, 3 or 1,2,3 patterns - similar to how we play chromatic scales. This works for me well starting on C and F, G.

D, E, A i can"t see how to get around using 1.2.3.4 to catch the tritone. After I hit it with 4, I throw my thumb under as we do for major/minor and modal playing. I"m sure there are other techniques.

 

Ask Hendrix, Paganini, Coltrane, Evans or Jonathan Cain if they practiced scale patterns at some point in their lives.

 

That"s the best advice I can give. ymmv

[Song80s]

Key of C major is hard.

 

I only play C major if it gets me the gig.

 

Otherwise, I download it as a backing track and criticise the bass player for intruding on my audio range