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Software recommendation for using loops & arpeggiators live?


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I'm stepping things up a bit with my church gig and am running into some snags... A LOT of modern worship songs have arpeggiators running thru them. Loops are still somewhat common, but if you're familiar with Bethel Music, Elevation Worship, Hillsong et. al. then you know what I'm talking about. I don't really want to play with pre-recorded tracks as I like the freedom to change arrangements on the fly as needed. The problem is keeping arpeggiators, loops and the click all in sync. I was going at this by sending MIDI Clock from the V-Drum module that generates the click to my Brainspawn Forte VST host. That works just fine except that even though the loops and arpeggios would stay in time, if I didn't nail the start of either or both on a downbeat, it would be off a little. I've started using Cakewalk, which isn't really a VST host for live use, but it keeps everything locked and I can generate the click from it. But, it's not ideal for numerous reasons, mostly stemming from the fact that it's not designed for this task.

 

Is there a program that's ideally suited for this? Gig Performer? Ableton? Something else? (I'm a PC guy, so it needs to be friendly to that flavor of Kool-Aid.)

 

thanks,

 

greg

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Not a Cakewalk user. One of my close friends has been using it since it was a MIDI sequencer. I use loops for similar purposes to what you describe ... on Logic Pro X and Mainstage. Both Sony Acid and Ableton Live have worked for me in the past. Ableton is the bees knees for this kind of thing, but other DAWS are beginning to add bits of Loop functionality under different names. It would be easier to work with an interface you already know.

 

Have you used Cakewalk's Matrix View? If so, are there particular things it doesn't do for you? Hopefully others will pop in here with better suggestions. :)

 

 

 

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Thanks for that... although I think Matrix view is more for DJ type applications. I probably need to clarify what I'm looking for. I need DAW type transport/clock capabilities so I can keep arpeggiators, loops & click all in tight sync. (The arpeggiators come from Omnisphere & are played live.) I need to have multiple "setups" loaded, each having its own tempo settings and instrument assignments that I can easily step thru. I'd like to be able to start & stop transport with zero latency. Cakewalk can't do the latter. No matter what interface & how low the latency, when you press play in Cakewalk, there is a lag before it starts. That's a bummer. There's got to be a better way...

Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio

www.gmma.biz

https://www.facebook.com/gmmamusic/

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Not sure how this works in Cakewalk, but in some others the workflow is that you trigger a loop or cell with a note or a drumpad. Result is instantaneous or at the end of the bar/cell depending on your settings. Arpeggiators can be triggered by the midi data in a cell, no problem. Transport button doesn't have to enter into it. Cells follow tempo of project.

 

That may not the workflow you desire though .... hopefully somebody will show up who actually knows what they are talking about. ;)

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I think Ableton Live would be much more suited to do what you want. I have been using Cakewalk exclusively for the last 18 months or so. I don't think it will work for what you want as you noted there is a definite lag. I think Ableton with a controller such as Novation Launchpad series would be a much better setup though there would be a learning curve there are a whole lot of videos out there to learn from. For hardware only, I have had a lot of fun using an MPC One with a Korg Radius, Roland D-05 and my DeepMind 12. It is great for syncing multiple synths, drums kits, samples and its internal plugins.

Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12

Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell

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... the workflow is that you trigger a loop or cell with a note or a drumpad. Result is instantaneous or at the end of the bar/cell depending on your settings. Arpeggiators can be triggered by the midi data in a cell, no problem. Transport button doesn't have to enter into it. Cells follow tempo of project.

 

Hmmm.... ok, now you've got me thinking. If I setup the click as a loop that I trigger, then I can start/stop it on demand (with no lag). Assuming the tempo in the Matrix View follows the timeline, I can use markers to jump to different tempo changes for different songs... and then in theory I can trigger loops & arpeggiators on demand, all in sync. Might work, so that gives me a rabbit hole to run down, thanks!

 

Of course, if that does work, great, but it doesn't solve the part where Cakewalk is not as cool as a live performance oriented VST Host with scene changes / setups that can be called up via program change.

Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio

www.gmma.biz

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Well, I did take quite the trip down the rabbit hole. Cakewalk's Matrix proved to be pretty usable for my needs, but there are certainly some workflow things I'm still addressing. I did this past Sunday's service where I triggered loops and / or arpeggiators on 3 different songs. I also generated the click for the Praise team, so everything was locked and everything worked. For the moment, I'm looking at saving a song's settings as a track template, so I can recall things as needed, but I still miss the flexibility of recalling a scene the way Brainspawn's Forte could. Flip side is, the learning curve was not horrible. More experimenting to come! In the meantime, many thanks to Tusker for the tip on the Matrix view!

Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio

www.gmma.biz

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I think Ableton Live would be much more suited to do what you want ... .

Ableton with a controller such as Novation Launchpad series would be a much better setup ... .

For hardware only, ... MPC One ...

It is great for syncing multiple synths, drums kits, samples and its internal plugins.

 

+1

 

A.C.

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It reads like the issue has been resolved but I'll echo the sentiments above:

 

Ableton Live is definitely the software tool most musicians are using for this particular application.

 

Similar to Toano88, I have also have an Akai MPC Live II wihich is a hardware solution for the same thing. The MPC works with Ableton Live as well. :cool:

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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Cakewalk's Matrix proved to be pretty usable for my needs, but there are certainly some workflow things I'm still addressing. I did this past Sunday's service where I triggered loops and / or arpeggiators on 3 different songs. I also generated the click for the Praise team, so everything was locked and everything worked. For the moment, I'm looking at saving a song's settings as a track template, so I can recall things as needed, but I still miss the flexibility of recalling a scene the way Brainspawn's Forte could. Flip side is, the learning curve was not horrible. More experimenting to come!

 

Nice!! :thu:

 

Ableton is perfect for this type of application, but we all know that every gig is a compromise between perfection and good enough, right? Well done! Anything you learn with Cakewalk will help you with configuring Ableton should you decide to change tools.

 

Going back to your idea of embedding tempo changes in your timeline. Did that work? If so, can you also embed program changes, or will Cakewalk glitch? (It's a kludgy solution I know.) Preferably you would want a dedicated hardware button to step through your changes. Theoretically you could run Forte in parallel and alt-Tab to it, but personally I'm terrified of touching a laptop live. :freak:

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... Going back to your idea of embedding tempo changes in your timeline. Did that work? If so, can you also embed program changes, or will Cakewalk glitch? (It's a kludgy solution I know.) Preferably you would want a dedicated hardware button to step through your changes. Theoretically you could run Forte in parallel and alt-Tab to it, but personally I'm terrified of touching a laptop live. :freak:

 

Tempo changes didn't work.... or rather, sometimes they would, sometimes they wouldn't. Appeared to be a bug, because it was intermittent. The other annoying thing was that if I didn't have the the project with the cursor ("now" time) at the beginning, then loops / arps wouldn't reliably start at the beginning. There's a setting for them to start where they fall in the timeline, but that's with the timeline running.

 

I did think about running both Cakewalk & Forte & sending program changes to Forte, but ultimately decided that would be introducing unnecessary risks. Yeah, I've had my fair share of Laptops crashing on stage, LOL.

Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio

www.gmma.biz

https://www.facebook.com/gmmamusic/

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