Morrissey Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 We've had threads the past few months about (1) the greatness of Herbie's Rhodes solo on "People Music" from his "Secrets" album, and (2) enthusiasm for the Open Studio jazz e-learning platform. Those two interests converge today! Lesson starts in about 45 minutes from this post. I assume it will be archived on YouTube for later viewing. [video:youtube] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docbop Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Those are some excellent lessons, they do them every Tuesday and Friday and worth checking out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejefunkyman Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Thanks for the link, very interesting indeed ð I see a picture of a Mark II Stage piano on the video presentation thumbnail. Should I conclude that it is the one Herbie used on this particular recording? Some time ago I did a play along test on « Gentle Thoughts » with the Korg SV2"s Mark II Stage sample and found it was pretty close. So this would confirm I was close to the truth ð Or, am I still missing something ð¤?? Chasing that magical and mystery Herbie"s tone ðð Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 I see a picture of a Mark II Stage piano on the video presentation thumbnail. Should I conclude that it is the one Herbie used on this particular recording? Some time ago I did a play along test on « Gentle Thoughts » with the Korg SV2"s Mark II Stage sample and found it was pretty close. So this would confirm I was close to the truth ð Or, am I still missing something ð¤?? Chasing that magical and mystery Herbie"s tone ðð I would recommend resources other than this Open Studio video to learn what keyboard, effects, and other gear Herbie used for this recording. Open Studio is an expert on teaching how to play jazz but in my experience they are not particularly worried about the gear details. The Rhodes on their YouTube thumbnail may be a stock photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejefunkyman Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 ok good to know ððð I already did some research on the net, but this thing seems to be hidden in the dark ð± That"s why I"m looking for every clue I can ð I"m also trying at the same time to check the accuracy of the SV2 rhodes samples ð And the EP tone on People Music or Gentle Thoughts definitely doesn"t sound like the SV2 Mark I Suitcase sample, but more like the Mark II Stage. Of course there"s always the complete signal chain to consider, but I still believe that one should be able to recognize the base charateristic tone of the particular keyboard which was used on a recording, even though it is modified by the effects which are applied on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Thanks for the link. This is where my Reface CP shines as I able to grab it and dial in sound and play along. Remarkably, the 2nd Rhodes sound with effects was pretty good. Less rich sounding but it inspires nicely (and it's quick and handy.) I've always loved Secrets. That solo is made up of such simple ideas but in the hands of a master. Quote AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRW Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 I see a picture of a Mark II Stage piano on the video presentation thumbnail. Should I conclude that it is the one Herbie used on this particular recording? Herbie definitely used a Suitcase, that is just a stock photo. If I recall correctly, some of the Suitcase patches in Keyscape come kind of close to his "buttery" tone. I don't have a Kronos 2, but Herbie is a Korg-endorsed artist and don't they include some patches even named after him? When people chase after the sound, they often just do one or the other - the sound is mellow, yes, but it has a percussive attack and a clear mid-range with a very unique sonic character. IMO in the 70s the sound is often "clean", as in, no phaser or chorus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejefunkyman Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 There's no "Herbie-something" patch in the SV2, nor in the SV1. I also have a Krome and a Vox Continental (Yes I'm a Korg addict :-)), and they neither include any "Herbie-something" patch. So I only can only rely on my ears to try to find the right patch among all the one I have. So I did this exercice on "Gentle Thoughts" with the SV2 MK I Suitcase patch, with and without the amp simulation, and could find no common ground with Herbie's tone. There's definitely something different to my ears. I tried also to activate all the available effects like tremolo or tape echo, but it was still not satisfying. Then I tried the MK I Stage, MK II Suitcase and MK II Stage patches which are also included on the SV2 (which sound pretty good to me by the way), also with effects (but no amp simulation), and the one which came closest to me was the MK II Stage. It sounded quite close, even at different velocity levels. This is why thought it was maybe the one which was used. I've also read several times that Herbie was rather using a MK I Suitcase unit, but then all this leaves me kind of puzzled... Note: I'm just doing this for fun and educational purpose ;-) Maybe this doesn't makes sense at all, but I'm still trying from time to time lol ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docbop Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 I see a picture of a Mark II Stage piano on the video presentation thumbnail. Should I conclude that it is the one Herbie used on this particular recording? Herbie definitely used a Suitcase, that is just a stock photo. If I recall correctly, some of the Suitcase patches in Keyscape come kind of close to his "buttery" tone. I don't have a Kronos 2, but Herbie is a Korg-endorsed artist and don't they include some patches even named after him? I got a email from one of the online music dealers who still know me as a guitarist, their email was about all the new signature guitars that have come out. In guitar world signature model guitar have been a big deal my guess is since the 50's. Which made me think what signature keyboards are there, I don't know of any. Lots of great keyboardist known for playing but how many did those manufacturers reach out and sign them to a signature model keyboard. I'm not talking about endorsees, but actual signature models made to an artist spec's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 Joey D has had signature organs with at least a couple companies. One of his organs was specifically modelled. Quote Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted March 11, 2021 Author Share Posted March 11, 2021 In guitar world signature model guitar have been a big deal my guess is since the 50's. Which made me think what signature keyboards are there, I don't know of any. Lots of great keyboardist knows for playing but how many did those manufacturers reach out and sign them to a signature model keyboard. I'm not talking about endorsees, but actual signature models made to an artist spec's? Interesting observation, perhaps worthy of a separate thread. Yes, various pianists have endorsement deals with piano/keyboard manufacturers, but very different from the signature models for guitars/basses. Here's a "signature model" plug-in to play Alicia Keys's piano: [video:youtube] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docbop Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 Now if Korg created a Herbie signature Kronos or Yamaha a Chick Corea Montage my next buying decision would be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejefunkyman Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 Hell yeah !!!!!!!!! :-) But isn't there already a Chick Corea speficic EP patch that you can buy for the Montage? Or is it for the MODX? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrythek Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 Hell yeah !!!!!!!!! :-) But isn't there already a Chick Corea speficic EP patch that you can buy for the Montage? Or is it for the MODX? More than a patch, it's samples of his heavily modified Mark V Rhodes. It's been available for a number of Yamaha boards, including the Motif, Montage and MODX. I reviewed it a bit in my MODX deep dive over in the Gearlab. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrythek Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 I see a picture of a Mark II Stage piano on the video presentation thumbnail. Should I conclude that it is the one Herbie used on this particular recording? Herbie definitely used a Suitcase, that is just a stock photo. If I recall correctly, some of the Suitcase patches in Keyscape come kind of close to his "buttery" tone. I don't have a Kronos 2, but Herbie is a Korg-endorsed artist and don't they include some patches even named after him? In the Kronos we did a voicing session with Herbie to get his "take" on creating a sound that satisfied his taste (as we did with a number of artists). I chose to name it"Butterfly" but in retrospect it's not really all that close to the sound of that tune/recording, nor were we referencing the tune with Herbie that day. I just so love the tune... I can't recall ever seeing Herbie playing a Stage model... the suitcase was his instrument. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejefunkyman Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 Hi Jerry, ok thanks a lot for your hints I will then try again to tweak the SV2"s MK I Suitcase tone and see if I can manage to get a similar tone than on Gentle Thoughts or People Music. Butterfly is also one of my favorite tune ð Such a beautiful musical masterpiece ðð Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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