OK, the Corona Virus Isn't Going Away. Now What?

[Chip McDonald]

No, it's not rubbish. But I'm not going to argue with someone calls doctors idiots.

 

Can a person be a car mechanic and not know what this means: 2C8H18(l) + 25O2(g) â 16CO2(g) + 18H2O(g)?

 

 

Doctors are par excellent at being able to memorize a huge amount of information. It doesn't mean they're all good at thinking about it. That a quack doctor in Italy, that's sighed off on phony studies, says something that runs counter to the medical establishment, doesn't mean "there is equal dissent".

 

Lock downs work. People younger than 60 must get vaccinated. Masks work. That you can dig up an IDIOT that says otherwise, with a piece of paper that says he's a doctor, doesn't dispel the educated belief of the majority.

 

But maybe I'm wrong and you're a doctor and know better.

 

When there is a majority of doctors and virologists whose opinion runs counter to yours, why would my opinion matter yea or nay? You're the one promulgating fringe "science" ideas that run counter to established scientific belief, the onus is on you to prove your minority opinion has some sort of scientific reasoning behind it.

 

"There's *a* doctor that says hydroxychoroquine cures covid!" was a premise that literally got people killed last year, either directly or because of the IDIOTIC belief instilled in followers of Orange Jesus that it was a panacea, that it meant there was no reason to take any precautions, masks are an affront to your freedumbs, the Hold Water of "Hydroxy" would save you. *That was garbage that KILLED people*. Thousands would be saved if not for garbage rhetoric against masks, lock downs,and non-science based on quacks. This isn't some casual thing to muse about, "amp modelers sound as good as real amps", this is LIFE AND DEATH.

[Chip McDonald]

Lock downs work. Aside from studies showing it, common sense to seeing numbers fall in all places where it's done should prove it. "Should" I suppose being the operable word; cherry picked fallacies should not get the same play as established science.

 

The idea of "lock downs prevent the virus from mutating to a safer form!" - is being presented by people that I fully understand *don't know any better*. But I also know that there are those that will fall prey to the sound-bite logic of it, and it creates knock-on effects. I know for a fact of a situation in the military whereby "certain people in certain positions" had made/have made the decision to "let the virus run wild so we can get herd immunity": which is nonsense. There were people in my stupid hometown organizing "speakeasies" during our pretend "lock down" last year with the semi-joking intent of "getting immunity", kids having parties to "get immunity".

 

This kind of thing happened because *it wasn't considered cordial to address it for what it is*. I taught a doctor that would come to guitar lessons sick; he'd cough in my room, not really cover his mouth, and I'm quite sure made me sick at least once because of it. Meanwhile responsible people, whether they understand biology or not, cover their mouths: because it's the *socially required thing to do*. It's not optional. You cover your mouth, or you're like the doctor that I looked at with disdain. Social norms happen, and were it not for the social media platforms it would already have been a social norm to wear a mask everywhere, stay home if possible, and GET VACCINATED.

 

Meanwhile, just an hour ago I had a guy from Dominion Power in S.C. knock on my partially open door (nice day out so I had it cracked),and before I had a chance to get mask he's telling me through the partially opened door they're putting a smart meter on my house, and the power is going to be turned off. No mask, he's right in front of me.

 

*This is because we've decided it's impolite to challenge people ignoring scientific reality*. What should be a social norm isn't, because of that. "Oh, they should have the freedom to do what they want". That's bs.

 

I got my dad's second shot yesterday. 9 people had to come up to our car to check i.d., sign this, take the i.d. somewhere, put this on your dashboard, on and on. Much less than 6 feet proximity to my 87 year old father. The thing is, the National Guard soliders "helping" (standing around) most of the time had their masks pulled down. Going up to cars shouting directions into open windows. Handling drivers licenses, their noses hanging out or pulling their mask down while shouting. Nobody supervising had any problem with this, because.... nobody wants to say anything. I am quite sure between the clipboards, pens being handed around to the hundreds in line, random people shouting into cars, the incidental workers coming up to the car windows to get information (that they should have gotten online or over the phone!!) at least 1 person must have been infected in the process of GETTNG VACCINATED.

 

I pull up to the driveway at my dad's house, and his 75 year old retired neighbor is sitting at the curb doing something with his fishing poles, with no mask and yells "I got my second shot yesterday, I'm good to go anywhere!". He's not for at least 21-28 days, and even at that he's got to wear a mask, and can still be infected and spread it (despite having a much less probability of it).

 

Was he told that when he got the shot? I doubt it, since nobody said that to my father yesterday, either. BUT, this guy watches OANN/Newsmax nonsense, and said things like "you need to get your dad some hydroxy!" and ran around like nothing was going on, no mask. A combination of a failure of government to educate, but also for these disinformation outlets to brainwash people into *creating a social norm that supplants the one that should be there*:

 

"It's my right to invent my own science about the pandemic, and you're rude to tell me otherwise".

 

 

This "freedumb to ignore science" bs has to be shut down.

[Notes_Norton]

A crisis will bring out the best in some people, and the worst in others. It has always been thus.

[Chip McDonald]

(Craig, I know you want this thread to go away, but .....)

 

Just wanted to put this here for posterity, "there are 2 curves: one for SARS-COV2 alpha, and another for beta-delta". We're at March 23 2020 numbers for the variants - which don't really care if you're vaccinated or not, and now that nobody is wearing masks anymore effectively speaking we've reset the situation back to last year. It won't show up in the data as well, because people will ignore getting sick; and the variants don't make the anosmia symptomes as obvious as a tell-tale. People won't get tested out of fear as they did last year. In turn, if I'm wrong, the curve will continue to go down until if hits pre-March 2020 numbers: <1,200 daily infections, nil hospitalizations and deaths.

 

If it tapers, or if it flattens - but hospitalizations and deaths are not linear, I think that will be a sign we're in my scenario: 2020 reset with the variants. It's too early to be telling people to take off masks, that "it's over". It's not, and the CDC's numbers indicate it's not. CDC numbers show a trend that should bottom out by the beginning of July; if it tapers or just flattens - that will be a bad sign IMO.

 

I hope I'm wrong. But I was rummaging around on an old hard drive a few weeks ago, backing up pictures to Google Photos before the limit kicked in, and stumbled upon a "curious" text file titled "scary unposted from Craig Anderton forum" from 2003 that was... prophetically scary, although what seemed like unwarranted silliness back then turned out to be reality. I left it around back then as "calibration" for "some future time" - which is now, and as it turns out I feel my "calibration" has been spot on.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I've got a few epidemiologists that have at least "liked" the premise. We should still be as vigilant as ever right now in the States, only half vaccinated and the (vaccine resistant, 2.5x more contagious, stealthier) variants comprising the bulk of the new infections. Ignoring that won't make it go away. I don't see why this isn't obvious to everyone; but none of this was, apparently.

 

Yeah, I know Fauci and Walensky says you can take off the masks. With reduced vaccine efficacy against the variants, this is EXACTLY the same as saying "you don't need to wear masks" back in March 2020.

 

Which was wrong then, and wrong now.

 

We shouldn't have reopened, people should be wearing masks and be as vigilant now as they were months ago. I know everybody has gigs lined up, but... it's too early. It makes no sense to let up until the *VARIANT* rate hits zero; how many had it in Seattle when COVID started...? I know nobody cares now, WAR IS OVER and all that, and I'm wrong. $.10

 

 

]

[pinkfloydcramer]

The coronavirus is going away, but this thread is still going strong.

 

If you want something to worry about, worry about China not coming clean with the investigation of COVID's origins. Understanding how the first pandemic came to be is key to preventing another. But the media had us believing the "science was settled" and that there was an ironclad consensus among the experts that the virus had a natural origin- so anyone suggesting the virus escaped from a Chinese lab was shouted down and de-platformed, and denounced as a conspiracy theorist and racist. According to the article in Vanity Fair, this was as much due to the corrupting influence of grant money as to politics.

 

Also, a recent study shows the J&J vaccine (which I wanted but gave up waiting for) is effective against the variants. I read it on the internet, so it has to be true!

 

(Correction) - It's going away in this country (because of vaccines and natural immunity) but not globally.

[Anderton]

At this point how it started is of academic and political interest, not practical interest. Finding out the source won't change what's happening now. It may help in preventing this kind of thing in the future.

 

I wouldn't be too hard on the "science is settled" people. There have been plagues on a regular basis throughout history, and they all had natural causes. So scientists are going to go with the odds, rather than expect an anomaly. It's so unfortunate that Covid became political almost immediately (and still is).

 

Also, the scientific method is to create a hypothesis, collect data to test the hypothesis, and draw a conclusion. There has been a definite lack of data. I don't see such things as flip-flopping on masks or whether you can get covid from cardboard boxes as saying we can't trust the experts. As additional data comes in, it's necessary to test new hypotheses, and draw new conclusions. Just think how many times science has modified its knowledge of dinosaurs based on new discoveries.

 

Anyway, two interesting pieces of information:

 

* More people have died from Covid so far in 2021 than in all of 2020.

* The infection rate and death rate of unvaccinated people is the same as it was for the general population back in January, before the vaccine became widely available.

 

I agree that it's not over yet, but at least the vaccine is helping.

[Notes_Norton]

Whether COVID-19 started in a China lab or not is really unimportant for the sake of the blame game. It could happen anywhere.

 

I'll make an analogy here:

 

I live fairly close to a Nuclear Power Electric Generation Station. We have huge sirens all over the county that are supposed to warn us at the first sign or trouble. There is one about 500 feet from my house. If there is a problem at the nuke plant, here is how I see it most likely happening:

• The workers will try to contain the problem
  
• The workers will try to fix the problem
  
• The workers will try to cover up the problem to take the blame off themselves
  
• The core will start to melt down
  
• The workers will speed away in their cars/trucks, to try to save themselves
  
• If we're lucky, the last thing one of the workers will do on the way out will be to hit the button that activates the sirens
  
• Then of course it'll be too late to get out of town.
  

 

If COVID-19 leaked from a Chinese lab, see the steps above.

 

We've had some things leak out of US labs, fortunately not so deadly to humans, although a lot of sheep and/or cows have died due to the leaks. And although it didn't escape from a lab, there is convincing evidence that the Spanish Flu was brought to Spain by our soldiers after originating in the USA.

 

I don't think China invented and released a virus in a lab that would spread all over the world without first inventing an antidote for their own citizens. There is no political advantage to releasing a virus that will kill the citizens of the country where it is released.

 

So if it did escape from a Chinese Lab, I'm sure it was an accident. And as I pointed out, we've had our own lab leak accidents in the USA. And remember, the world's first nuclear power accident was in the USA (Three Mile Island).

 

I read last night that they found a coronavirus in bats in China that is very, very close to COVID-19. Close enough to have likely gone to humans with only one intermediate animal step.

 

We still don't know. There is no hard evidence that it escaped from a Chinese lab, and IMO if it did, it's not fair to blame China, unless it is proven that they did it on purpose. Releasing a killer virus that they have no cure for is not something I think any country would do. So if it did escape from a lab, it was most likely the blame of either workers or equipment, and we should not hold the country responsible.

 

I do think that we had the chance for herd immunity early on, but the inactivity of the government hoping it would go away by itself, and later the politicizing of the vaccine blew our chances at that. But that's water under the bridge, so to speak.

 

The thing for me and Mrs. Notes to do is to continue being careful, and when the vaccine boosters come out, try to be first in line.

 

Right now, virtually all the US hospitalized COVID-19 patients have one thing in common. They haven't been vaccinated.

 

So rather than playing the blame game, perhaps it would be more logical to put your self-preservation instincts in high gear and try to minimize your personal risks for getting COVID-19.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[Chip McDonald]

The coronavirus is going away, but this thread is still going strong.

 

It's not going away in the U.S..

 

We were close. It could have gone away. If we'd gotten people vaccinated a little faster, and if we hadn't lifted removed mask restrictions. It's not going away, it's doing exactly what I predicted: we missed the window with the variants. It bottomed out on the 7th, and now it's ticking back up. Except what's ticking up is SARS-COV2 beta-delta, which is vaccine resistant.

 

 

If you want something to worry about, worry about China not coming clean with the investigation of COVID's origins

 

If YOU want something to worry about you should ask why your own government is pretending it had nothing to do with it, when the NIH was funding coronavirus gain of function experiments via EcoHealth / Peter Daszak *in the same Wuhan lab*. China is just being China, there is nothing surprising there. Having the bureaucracy of the NIH/NIAAD pretend EcoHealth wasn't tinkering with isolating "zoonotic SARS-like coronaviruses from bats that attach to ACE2" since before 2013 there is a complete cabal of epic proportions.

 

 

Understanding how the first pandemic came to be is key to preventing another.

 

Nope, because the agencies that were suppose to do that failed and avoided educating people from the start. Complete rubbish, non-existent response and corrupt leadership on all sides.

 

What will get us through the present pandemic, and unfortunately the next, will be PEOPLE ACTING LIKE THERE IS A PANDEMIC and taking action.

 

 

Also, a recent study shows the J&J vaccine (which I wanted but gave up waiting for) is effective against the variants. I read it on the internet, so it has to be true!

 

I got the J&J specifically because it was the only one that was trialed in Africa, after the mutation had started. But the corporate propaganda wrecked their efforts with the rubbish blood clotting "story". What IS on the internet and is true is RESEARCH PAPERS you can read for yourself, but it's a pain in the butt to stay on top of and requires technical understanding of the jargon and processes involved.

 

(Correction) - It's going away in this country (because of vaccines and natural immunity) but not globally.

 

"Natural immunity" after infection is shown to not be as effective as the vaccines, AND possibly less effective against the variants. I know a number of people that have had COVID and in turn should have "natural immunity" but got it again months later. No "natural immunity".

 

The only thing that would have stopped it is the same action Jacinda Ardern took in New Zealand. Lockdowns, strict mask protocols. As long as idiots are going to be around other people in crowds it will continue to keep going, and the hardier variants will survive and continue to mutate. It's only by STOPPING transmission will it go away, and in the U.S. we have NOT seriously made any effort to truly lock down.

[pinkfloydcramer]

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210608/No-point-vaccinating-those-whoe28099ve-had-COVID-19-Findings-of-Cleveland-Clinic-study.aspx

 

Just one study I know, but it does point to there being no point in vaccination for those who have already contracted COVID. And as long as we're getting anecdotal, I know of nobody who did (vaccinated or not) that has gotten re-infected. And for those that have, a pertinent question is, was it as severe the 2nd time around? I'm just curious in that regard.

 

I'm well aware that the NIH was partners with the Chinese in conducting gain-of-function research. That is yet another political football with those attempting to saddle Fauci with some blame for the pandemic. Eventually he had to admit that his agency did not "directly" fund the GOF research. A workaround was implemented.

 

Shutdowns are history. Does anyone think the populace of this country could stomach another year of severe economic (and psychological) disruption? Or that government could get away with heavy-handed enforcement of prolonged shutdowns? It's easy to see how that prolonged sheltering can drive people over the edge. And the outcomes of states that opened earlier vs those that didn't, is not that different. The people who predicted bloodbaths etc. in Georgia, FL TX etc. were wrong.

 

Also, I'm a little surprised that anyone thinks that discovering the origins of COVID has no practical relevance. There is an ongoing investigation of that by the current administration, is it just for show?

[RABid]

Kentucky has started a Covid lottery. If you have had your shots you can sign up. They are giving away 1 million each week, and a number of scholarships.

[Anderton]

 

Also, I'm a little surprised that anyone thinks that discovering the origins of COVID has no practical relevance. There is an ongoing investigation of that by the current administration, is it just for show?

 

I said it's of academic and political interest. I also said that "Finding out the source won't change what's happening now. It may help in preventing this kind of thing in the future." The latter is not about "for show," it's about prevention.

 

Practically speaking, finding out where it came from won't hit ctrl-Z, won't stop variants from happening, won't make the people who died come back to life, etc.

 

Frankly I'm concerned about this winter. You said "The people who predicted bloodbaths etc. in Georgia, FL TX etc. were wrong." Yes, but why? Perhaps it's because all of those are all warm states. The "bloodbaths" happened in colder states (other than Arizona, which according to this article from an Arizona business new source, said Arizona was ranked 47 out of 50 states for Covid response. So it's not surprising they got pretty beat up).

 

I think it's possible (although in the immortal words of Herman Cain, "I don't have facts to back this up") that one reason why Tennessee didn't get hit too hard last summer during Wave #2 was because it was unusually hot.

 

But here's the thing: no one knows for sure what's driving this pandemic. It could go away, it could roar back in the Winter...like the last time there was a pandemic of this magnitude, and there were four successive waves spread over 2 years. It's going to do what it's going to do, has no political affiliation, doesn't listen to the news, and is hell-bent on survival. The ONLY way to stop this enemy is to make sure it can't find hosts. But, the world was stupid. Some places did a good job of not providing hosts, but other places were saying "hey, come on over, free housing!"

 

No one knows exactly how this is going to play out, but I would expect more surprises. They could be good surprises, they could be bad ones, they could be strange ones...like it's on a low boil for the next five years.

[Anderton]

But the media had us believing the "science was settled" and that there was an ironclad consensus among the experts that the virus had a natural origin- so anyone suggesting the virus escaped from a Chinese lab was shouted down and de-platformed, and denounced as a conspiracy theorist and racist. According to the article in Vanity Fair, this was as much due to the corrupting influence of grant money as to politics.

 

As I said earlier, "The scientific method is to create a hypothesis, collect data to test the hypothesis, and draw a conclusion." That's what happened...until it was revealed recently that people in Wuhan had been much sicker, much earlier. That's new data. Time for a new hypothesis, and perhaps, time for a new conclusion. The reason for a renewed interest in the origins is to test out a new hypothesis that relates to the data we know now, not the data we had at the end of 2020.

[pinkfloydcramer]

True. But whoever was involved with trumpeting a non-existant "expert" consensus, and silencing dissenting voices (not just of political figures but of actual scientists) wasn't prioritizing the scientific method.

[Anderton]

True. But whoever was involved with trumpeting a non-existant "expert" consensus, and silencing dissenting voices (not just of political figures but of actual scientists) wasn't prioritizing the scientific method.

 

Consider the context. At this end, they were basing everything on the data they had at the time. That data, like it or not, included Mike Pompeo claiming he had proof that there was a lab leak, yet he didn't produce any evidence whatsoever, let alone proof, over the course of a year...and the two countries involved were locked in a mutually damaging trade war, throwing insults back and forth at each other on a daily basis. That's not going to produce a situation where cooler heads prevail. At China's end, it's obvious that not all relevant and crucial information was released. And, you had multiple, international layers of bureaucracy involved.

 

People tend to project their own behavior on to others. I feel someone like Fauci would think "well they're scientists, they must be telling the truth." Remember, the dude's been living in a "research world" all his life, not "politics world," where people lie and spin on an increasingly, and disturbingly, regular basis.

 

The new data, i.e. significant numbers of sick people in Wuhan last November, is what caused the re-examination. The odds, based on the past, are that it was animal-to-human transfer. But this isn't the past. This is a brave new world where craziness can propagate unfettered across borders, and take on a veneer of credibility, even if it has none. We may never find out the truth, in which case the fallback will likely be "well, the odds are..."

 

But make no mistake, I'm not naive enough to think that a lab leak isn't possible. I'm also not naive enough to think that all people, on all levels, in all fields, whether they've earned the title of expert or not, don't make significant mistakes of judgement.

 

I'm considered pretty intelligent when it comes to audio and such. Yet I'm learning more every day, some of which contradicts what I thought was true, and what others told me was true. I'm not unique in that respect.

 

And no, this post has nothing to do with politics. It's totally about human nature.

[Notes_Norton]

The only reason to try to figure out how COVID started is to see if it's possible to prevent the next pandemic - not for the blame game.

 

It's not a bloodbath in Florida, but the statistics are so bad that our governor went from lying about to statistics to minimize them to refusing to publish the numbers.

 

I've read from creditable sources that people who have had COVID do have a natural immunity, especially to the variant they survived. On the other hand, people who are vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine have a better immunity to many of the mew variants. That's why they recommend someone who survived COVID to get the vaccine.

 

Me? I have good self-preservation instincts, and I'm playing it safe to minimize my risks. YMMV

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[Chip McDonald]

Just one study I know, but it does point to there being no point in vaccination for those who have already contracted COVID. And as long as we're getting anecdotal, I know of nobody who did (vaccinated or not) that has gotten re-infected

 

 

10 Delta variant cases connected to outbreak at Calgary hospital were fully immunized

 

I know at least 2 people that have been reinfected after having it.

 

 

Shutdowns are history.

 

 

I hope so, but I wouldn't count on that. If the variants catch on - and there is no reason they won't - we'll be back to a surge by August. But of course, we don't have to have lockdowns - we can just continue to be idiots and let it spread and kill more people....

 

 

Does anyone think the populace of this country could stomach another year of severe economic (and psychological) disruption?

 

No, but the virus doesn't care. And because Orange Jesus didn't handle it like Jacinda Adern did, here we are on the precipice again.

 

Or that government could get away with heavy-handed enforcement of prolonged shutdowns? I

 

That didn't happen in the States, but it should have. Or are you in the "mah freedumbs are more important than people" category?

 

 

t's easy to see how that prolonged sheltering can drive people over the edge. And the outcomes of states that opened earlier vs those that didn't, is not that different.

 

The infection rates have been tracking completely linearly with "reopening" events.

 

The people who predicted bloodbaths etc. in Georgia, FL TX etc. were wrong.

 

 

WTF are you talking about? Since it started or since States have started reopening, less than a month ago?

[Chip McDonald]

 

I've read from creditable sources that people who have had COVID do have a natural immunity, especially to the variant they survived.

 

They have limited immunity, as studies have shown. And no immunity against *the variants they didn't have*, that are now dominant.

 

"Resistance of SARS-CoV-2 variants to neutralization by monoclonal and serum-derived polyclonal antibodies"

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01294-w

 

"SARS-CoV-2 501Y.V2 escapes neutralization by South African COVID-19 donor plasma"

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01285-x

 

"Sensitivity of infectious SARS-CoV-2 B.1.1.7 and B.1.351 variants to neutralizing antibodies"

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01318-5

 

 

The variants are now dominant, and vaccine resistant, and people are behaving like "it's over" when it's not. From this perspective it's literally just starting over with a different variant.

 

 

There will be no herd immunity. We had a window that closed about a month and a half ago, thanks to anti-science jerks pushing against masks and lock downs. There is no way out of this loop now, except by a long, long lockdown. If the variants catch on at the same rate as before we'll see the numbers start to rise by the end of July, except it could be worse because people think they're immunized, or have natural immunity, and won't get tested or wear masks. This could be worse by the end of the year than it was last year.

 

It's an absolute mistake to tell people not to wear masks and to be less vigilant right now.

[Anderton]

I was listening to talk radio this morning, and the host said "Covid was very dangerous if you had certain co-morbidities, were old, etc. But a lot of people didn't know they had it, or thought it was something like a cold. So, most people really don't need the vaccine. Get a vaccine because it's about your needing it."

 

My head exploded. Follow the logic here: we should let people who aren't going to die from it be free to catch it, and spread it around to others who might die from it. This works if you want to "thin the herd," I guess...

 

I got a vaccine not so much because I thought I needed it - I've never had a flu shot my whole life, I'm not obese, don't have underlying conditions, etc. My main motivation was to do my part to minimize the potential number of hosts for the virus, and not spread the virus unknowingly to others. When it became clear that getting the vaccine also reduced the severity of Covid if you did catch it, that was the clincher. I know plenty of people who didn't die, but said the experience was so horrible, as some points they wish they had.

[pinkfloydcramer]

That didn't happen in the States, but it should have. Or are you in the "mah freedumbs are more important than people" category? (end of quote)

 

Freedom is wonderful. You're free to stay couped up in your house, indulging your shutdown fantasies and raving on the internet 'til the end of time, and the rest of us are free to get our shots and go on with our lives. Which in my case involves trying to teach my GF how to play guitar when I don't really know how, myself.

 

By the way, "people" includes small business owners and 38% of small businesses have closed while the big box stores stayed open. I'm not sure what kind of fantasy world you would have to live in to think that the government can indefinitely keep on supporting people who can't work because of shutdowns.

 

Here's a nifty study showing how shelter in place orders have had minimal effect (and no, it doesn't confuse the SIP orders with social distancing itself): https://www.pnas.org/content/118/15/e2019706118

 

WTF are you talking about? Since it started or since States have started reopening, less than a month ago?

 

Referring to late last summer or so, when GA (followed by FLA and other states) relaxed the COVID restrictions, which caused cries of outrage. I admit I haven't been keeping track of the last month or so.

 

I looked at this chart for a while. mostly paying attention to COVID cases and deaths per 1 M in each state. Doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to the results but at least it (and this thread) has motivated me to cut grass in 90F heat. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

[Anderton]

Well let's not verge into politics and such. It is what it is. The question is how do we get out of it, and even though the answer was known, too many people ignored it.

 

I know that having everything locked down is untenable, but consider this analogy. You fracture your leg badly, in multiple places. The doctor says you absolutely cannot walk on it for a month. You really get tired of lying in bed and using crutches, so after two weeks, you decide to hell with it, and start walking around. Only problem is, that not only sets back the healing process, but causes additional damage. Now the doctor looks at you and says you can't walk on it for five weeks. After four weeks, you really are going stir-crazy...you decide it's probably healed enough, so you talk a walk outside that lasts until you're in major pain and go back to bed. You cause an additional delay to the healing, and more damage to the leg. Now the doctor says you have to stay off of it for at least six weeks, maybe more.

 

As this point, the patient blames the doctor for not knowing what he's talking about. "First he said it was going to be a month, then five weeks, then six weeks. What an idiot!"

 

If you want to read something terrifying, check out these stats about what's happening in the UK right now from the variants. It may be a preview of what will be happening here in about a month.

 

Or it may not be. Others consider her findings biased and agenda-driven..

 

While others find those calling her biased and agenda-driven are themselves biased and agenda-driven.

 

And back and forth it goes.

 

Apparently, though, the situation in the UK is sufficiently disturbing that Boris Johnson had to go immediately from the G7 meeting into crisis mode-type meetings regarding what to do next. So something's going on. Or maybe it isn't. Or maybe they're taking this too seriously. Or maybe they're not taking it seriously enough.

 

We have witnessed the end of seeking truth as a goal, which has been replaced by the goal of creating a truth that fits one's particular mindset, based on picking which facts you want to believe - when you don't even know if the "facts" are truth, or just something that fits someone else's particular mindset.

 

What a mess. If only there was intelligent life on earth, we wouldn't have these issues.

[Doerfler]

front page of todays WSJ : Vaccines Offer Significant Protection Against Covid-19 Delta Variant, U.K. Analysis Shows

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccines-offer-significant-protection-against-covid-19-delta-variant-u-k-analysis-shows-11623690999?st=1ffi28g5j5fhgeo&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

[RABid]

I do have one solid opinion. Better to have the vaccine than not.

[techristian]

The way I see it. The vaccine is more dangerous than the disease. That is why the US government vaers database has been pulled down a few times. The deaths and reactions to this vaccine are higher than all of the vaccines for the past 20 years combined.

 

Check the numbers.

 

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html

 

Dan

[Anderton]

The way I see it. The vaccine is more dangerous than the disease. That is why the US government vaers database has been pulled down a few times. The deaths and reactions to this vaccine are higher than all of the vaccines for the past 20 years combined.

 

Check the numbers.

 

Well, I didn't have a VAERS ID to access the full reports (PM me yours and I'll check it out), but here are numbers and relevant background from Newsweek, who did have access.

 

The Epoch Times reported on March 6 that 966 people had died after having the Pfizer or Moderna COVID vaccines.

 

The report said it had drawn the data from VAERS reports between December 14, 2020 and February 19, 2021.

 

According to the report, 472 people died after receiving a Moderna vaccine, while 489 died after receiving a Pfizer vaccine. Additionally, five people died after receiving a jab from an unknown manufacturer. The report also included data on age group and gender. It showed the largest proportion of deathsâ29 percentâoccurred in people ages 80 to 89. It also showed males accounted for 55 percent of deaths to 43 percent of females. It said the deaths had occurred between 0 and 49 days after vaccination, with 94 unknown.The article has been shared on Twitter, and users have gained hundreds of retweets and likes from posting a screenshot of the VAERS data reported by The Epoch Times.

 

There are hundreds of reports of people having died after getting a COVID vaccine, but that does not necessarily mean the vaccine was the cause.

 

Using WONDER, the CDC's VAERS database search tool, Newsweek gathered adverse report data specifically on deaths following a COVID vaccine from Moderna or Pfizer. It is important to note that our data contained VAERS reports processed as of February 26.

 

Newsweek selected only deaths as an adverse event, and selected the COVID vaccine as the only vaccine in the dataset. We specified Pfizer and Moderna as the vaccine manufacturers. We also chose our symptom onset interval as "All days," which ranges from 0 to over 120 days. We did not specify gender or age in the overall results. Our time frame ran from the earliest possible dates, "before 1990," to ensure every COVID vaccine was included.

 

Our VAERS result showed 970 people died after being given a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine shot. Of those deaths, 495 occurred following a Moderna shot, and 475 occurred following a Pfizer shot. Newsweek contacted Pfizer and Moderna for comment.

 

As of February 26, the same date as the VAERS data Newsweek processed (and they processed from the same data as Epoch Times, just with more recent figures), over 2.5 million had died worldwide. The odds of 2,510,995 : 970 sound pretty good to me If there was a local casino with odds that favorable, I'd be there right now.

[Anderton]

As far as "more other deaths than all other vaccines combined," so far, there have been 1,340,000,000 covid-19 vaccines administered world wide. Smallpox vaccine deaths are 1 per 4 million. So, that would mean 335 people compared to Covid's <1,000. But, bear in mind that with the Covid vaccinations, we don't know how many died as a result of the vaccination, and how many died of other reasons, like old age, given that most of the deaths occurred in those 80 to 89 years old. Hell, I could be 86, have a chocolate milkshake, and die 5 days later. "See? Killer chocolate milkshakes are a menace to society."

 

This article, Deaths Following Vaccinations, goes into more detail and background.

 

Now, let me make it very clear that if anyone has a right to be an anti-vaxxer, it's my daughter. About 1 in 24,000 children acquire ITP as a side effect of the MMR vaccine (ITP is the same side effect experienced by a very small number of women who took the J&J vaccine). My daughter was one of the unlucky ones. This is a known medical fact, not an anti-vaxxer screed. Still, she doesn't have a problem with that. She figures she'd be worse off if she had gotten measles, mumps, or rubella. She also points out that the odds of getting ITP without a vaccine are about the same as if you get it as a side effect from the vaccine. She's also smart enough to know it wouldn't be cool to have millions of kids running around with measles, mumps, and rubella.

[Synthaholic]

Our VAERS result showed 970 people died after being given a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine shot.

 

This is vague. How soon after getting the shot? Immediately, like in a reaction? Days or weeks longer, when other factors and causes of death could be to blame? I just don't know how they can quantify this.

[Anderton]

Our VAERS result showed 970 people died after being given a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine shot.

 

This is vague. How soon after getting the shot? Immediately, like in a reaction? Days or weeks longer, when other factors and causes of death could be to blame? I just don't know how they can quantify this.

 

As they said, "but that does not necessarily mean the vaccine was the cause." It could be way less. It compares favorably to the specs for other vaccinations, check the Deaths Following Vaccinations link posted above for more info on yellow fever, polio, and other fun stuff. Or don't waste your time. Vaccines are a known technology and apparently, there's not a huge difference among them in terms of efficacy (major, which is probably why no one has polio these days), side effects (minor), and deaths (negligible, statistically speaking).

[KuruPrionz]

There is more to come, lots more.

India is devastated by the virus, there will be variants.

China is reporting that a variant is hitting hard in some areas, people get much sicker much sooner. These two countries have the largest overall populations and concentrations of humanity on the planet, by far. Ideal places for viruses to spread and mutate.

 

People travel to and from these countries to other places constantly. Of special concern up here is Vancouver BC, one of the worlds largest Chinese populations outside of China.

Yes, the Canadian borders are closed to "non-essential" traffic. 25 miles south of the Canadian border I can tell you there are a buttload of Canadian semis driving north and south on the I-5 corridor.

Business is not considered "non-essential", rather the opposite.

 

We certainly have our share of careless and care-free people here in Washington state, if one of these variants comes riding along with the driver of a semi and somebody gets it, it will spread.

I'm vaccinated, that does not make me immune. There is a new flu vaccine every year for a reason, viruses mutate constantly.

 

We are not seeing the tail end of CV19, not by any means. Early on I've stated an opinion (although not here yet) that "Covid 19 will eventually increase the average IQ of the American People."

I'll leave it up to anybody who reads this to figure out what I mean by that.

 

Be safe!!!!

[RABid]

There is a common quote from several different friends who have suffered through Covid ... "TAKE THE SHOT!" Of course my conspiracy queen cousin has not taken it but I think she is starting to waiver.

[Notes_Norton]

Almost 4 million confirmed deaths from COVID-19. How many confirmed deaths from the vaccines? 'nuff said about that. Anyone who tells you the vaccine is more dangerous than the plague is obviously lying to you.

 

Political propaganda disguised as news knows that it can manipulate us with the two tried-and-true crowd manipulators, fear and anger. And that is exactly what they use to manipulate us. And that goes for both extremes. The thing you need to do is quit believing either or both extremes, put your critical thinking cap on, and look at the facts.

 

The USA still has the most COVID-19 deaths of any other country on Earth, and there are countries with billions more people than we have. We also have the greatest number of confirmed cases. Anyone who puts on their thinking cap can see that our response to the plague is the worst in the world.

 

So shouldn't we be learning something from our worst in the world record? Isn't making a mistake supposed to be an opportunity to learn?

 

My brother-in-law is a world-famous doctor among other doctors. He teaches other doctors all over the world and has over 100 published papers in prestigious scientific journals. He was one of the first to identify COVID-19 as more of a blood disease than a respiratory disease. He's been on the front-lines and says that if you get COVID-19, even a mild case, the chance of having permanent organ damage is over 50%. The damage can be in your brain, liver, kidneys, lungs, heart/circulatory system, and/or other major organs. I believe him more that I would trust either left or right wing media.

 

Now I don't know about you, but I use my brain and lungs to make a living, and I like my other major organs to be working at 100% capacity too. My health is my most precious asset. Without good health, all the money in the world will only buy you a more expensive casket.

 

So I got the vaccine to protect myself, my loved ones, and my customers.

 

We blew our chance at herd immunity, and we will probably pay the price for this in a disease we can no longer virtually eradicate like we did smallpox, polio and others.

 

So what now? I choose to protect myself. How about you? It's your choice.

 

Insights and incites by Notes