Which 61-key MIDI controller

[GuiliClayder]

i'm a piano player, have a Kawai CA58 and a MP11SE.

Recently, I've found myself wanting something 'fun' to make music on the side (I'll probably be fooling around a lot more than actually making music, though).

 

I have turned my attention to a MIDI controller I can use on my desktop, for use with my iMac. Have already tried different DAW's in trial mode and have narrowed it down to Ableton Live and Logic Pro X (downloaded 90-day trials of both, adn already fooled around a bit in Garageband).

As for MIDI controllers, keybed feel and quality is requirement number 1 so I'm not looking at low-end options.

Been comparing the Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2, the Arturia Keylab 61 MK2 and the Novation SL 61 MK3.

 

Not really interested in optimised workflows or anything like that, I'm no professional, it's for home 'studio' use...

The one that catches my eye the most is the Novation, although I fear that a lot of functionality might be lost on me (controlling hardware synths is not my thing, nor do I know the first thing about it).

And even though, I own a Mac, I'm not immediately convinced that Logic is the best choice. Been comparing it with Ableton Live and to tell you the truth, Live seems like 'more fun' than Logic.

 

So, some pointers ? For and against the Novation ? Will I be okay with it (I'm willing to learn) or will I be taking on more than I can chew? On the other hand, the SL MK3 is said to be very user friendly, even for a novice...

There are no huge sound libraries that come with it, like is the case with Arturia and Native Instruments, but I think choosing a controller because of free goodies is not really a smart thing to do...

 

The KK S61 looks appealing but I feel that the attraction of the 'bling bling' displays will wear off quite quickly. Plus, apparently, there are some issues with the Kontrol software and third-party apps and plug-ins. Plus, you'd have to add a Maschine (Mikro) to have some extra pad controls. Plus, why didn't they integrate pads on the S61 ? Probably to get you to buy accessories...

 

The Keylab MK2, well, looks attractive, Most of the reviews (written and youtube videos) are very positive about the quality : built like a tank, professional feel keybed, etc. Then you hear comments about 'not so good' sliders and knobs quality, and even that the keybed feels cheap. Who to believe, then ? I know there were quite a few quality issues with the Keylab MK1 but apparently they have been solved with the MK2. Can anyone confirm ? I've read about several problems with the M2 as well, like some of the knobs feeling looser than others, resistance of the sliders wearing down over a short amount of time, someone even mentioned that there were some loose screws tin the box hat had apparently fallen out... So, although it ticks a lot of boxes, I'm a bit worried about quality and longevity.

 

The Arturia is the cheapest around 500 euro, the Novation is around 600 euro, and so is the S61 but add a Maschine Mikro to it and that brings up to around 850 euro. I'm willing to pay that, if it does everything I want it to do. As suggested on another forum I frequently visit and post messages on, I could add a Korg NanoKontrol/Nano pad which is a lot cheaper, but I'd prefer the best integration so in this case it'd have to be a Maschine Mikro (MK3 would be pushing it).

 

I appreciate all kinds of music, so that would be my goal, to create music of all genres, not just EDM or electonic music. But like I said, no big professional productions, just for my own use and experimentation interests.

By the way, I would also throw my MP11SE into the mix...

All feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[johnchop]

Novation. Huge feature set, which you can grow into, and excellent action.

 

The Arturia action is super light and synthy. Great features but may be too springy for your tastes.

 

As for the KK, I just find paying for lights and the rather weak Komplete Kontrol feature set is just not worth it to me.

[EscapeRocks]

Novation. Huge feature set, which you can grow into, and excellent action.

 

The Arturia action is super light and synthy. Great features but may be too springy for your tastes.

 

As for the KK, I just find paying for lights and the rather weak Komplete Kontrol feature set is just not worth it to me.

 

 

Hey John, just curious what you find weak about the KK feature set? I have a KK S61 MK2 (and also an Arturia Keylab MK2)

 

After using the Komplete Kontrol software to set up the board, I find it to be wonderful. All the non Native Instruments VST I use are fully NI compatible. This really makes it nice when setting up sounds.

No more having to use the mouse or trackpad on the Mac. I can scroll thru the sounds using the big knob on the KK, and it plays a short preview of the sound.

 

The ability to custom name all the knobs and buttons is also excellent.

 

Lastly, I like the lights above the keys. Thru use of GigPerformer scripting, I have a very quick visual clue to where all the splits and key sections are on complex patches.

 

All in all, I find the Novation, Arturia, and Komplete Kontrol to each be great controllers.

[Delaware Dave]

Have a look at the M-Audio site. I just purchased an older model controller from them. Feature rich and a decent semi-weighted keybed for the 61 key controllers.

[TomKittel]

Happy Roland A800pro user here. Excellent Midi Controller capabilities including DAW control features:

 

 

Pretty acceptable action with aftertouch albeit the keys are a little bit shorter than standard size. 300 bucks only.

[johnchop]

Komplete Kontrol's sound library and mapping functionality is fine, but it's not multitimbral (a la Kore, VIP, etc.). It becomes more of a nice-to-have than a selling point.

 

The GP scripting to indicate split points... ok yeah, that's pretty nice

 

I would recommend checking out the M-Audio Oxygen Pro as well. M-Audio has a rough reputation, I know, but my experience with them has been good (maybe I got a unit that wasn't built on Friday) If the keybed on that is the same as the Code or CTRL, it's a winner for me, especially at that price. Unlike the SLMk3 or Kontrol, however, there are no onboard labels above the controls to indicate what they do.

[EscapeRocks]

Komplete Kontrol's sound library and mapping functionality is fine, but it's not multitimbral (a la Kore, VIP, etc.). It becomes more of a nice-to-have than a selling point.

 

 

This is an excellent and extremely valid point, and I agree. I guess since I only use it when running GigPerformer, I haven't thought of that aspect in a long time, since GP make it multitimbral, so to speak. If I were running VST's stand alone, I would definitely want something that did Kore or VIP....

[GuiliClayder]

I've considered M-Audio, and although I haven't been able to try any of the boards out, the impression I get from M-Audio is plasticky clickety clack actions, with the exception of the M-Audio Hammer 88 (I could be wrong, though, as Youtube videos and written reviews are all I have to go on).

Normal synth action won't do it for me, I want semi-weighted, and good quality semi-weighted to boot.

I have done my research and I am not going for cheaper, not from M-Audio, not from Nektar or any other brand.

But thanks for the suggestions, anyway

 

The Roland seems like decent quality but it sure is an oldie. And to be honest, the connections on the side would not be suited at all for my setup.

@Escaperocks : I see you have a Keylab MK2, what's your opinion about it ?

[AnotherScott]

Komplete Kontrol's sound library and mapping functionality is fine, but it's not multitimbral (a la Kore, VIP, etc.). It becomes more of a nice-to-have than a selling point.

 

 

This is an excellent and extremely valid point, and I agree. I guess since I only use it when running GigPerformer, I haven't thought of that aspect in a long time, since GP make it multitimbral, so to speak. If I were running VST's stand alone, I would definitely want something that did Kore or VIP....

Controllers are stll largely out of my wheelhouse. I recognize that VIP is from Akai... what's Kore?

[EscapeRocks]

.

@Escaperocks : I see you have a Keylab MK2, what's your opinion about it ?

 

I love it!

 

I had an original second run Keylab 61 Black Edition, and now the MK2 black edition. It very subjective, but I think the keybeds are fantastic (the first run Keylabs had key problems but were fixed bu the time I bought my first one)

I personally find the after-touch implementation to be excellent. It's very smooth and nuanced. I can get smooth CC from 0-127

 

Arturia updated their Midi Control Center software and setting up the Keylab is easy. The only thing I don't like is it it not fond of the Yamaha FC-7 expression pedal. It takes pedals that are compatible with Roland just fine. I do use my FC-7, but I re soldered the pot inside the pedal to change tip and ring (it's not just a polarity issue)

 

Since 93.7% of my VST are Arturia (V-collection 8) as well as their OBXa, the keylab is perfect for those for gigging. Everything natively assigned as far as controls.

[Dr Mike Metlay]

I reviewed both the Novation and the Arturia. TL;DR either will work for your needs but keyboard feel is subjective.

 

The former is awesome for use with Live, which I would agree is a more 'fun' DAW than Logic but might be completely the wrong thing for you (it is VERY much an acquired taste as its workflow substantially differs from every other DAW out there). It's well built, feels great... my only problem with it, and it seems silly that this is such a dealkiller BUT IT IS, is that there's no dedicated ninth fader for master volume. I play live a lot, streaming and on stage, and not having a fader I can flick in a hurry can be disastrous. I neither understand nor like controllers that think banks of 8 are just fine (Novation, Akai...)

 

In my time with the Arturia, I adored it. It's well laid out, solid as a tank, and very playable (although I am less picky about action than a lot of people). It was a bit big for my rig, but I was sad to lose it when the review was over.

[Al Coda]

They are all not perfect.

 

Arturia Keylab mk II has 9 faders,- but IMO these are on the wrong position for virtual organ usage.

But it offers luxurious connectivity for pedals/switches.

It would have been my favourite w/ the faders on the left side and pads o the right side.

 

The Novation 61SL mk III offers 8 faders only.

For me a "no go" even sustain-, CC-pedal and add. momentary switch inputs were adequate.

 

On the NI Komplete Kontrol I miss faders completely, so I wouldn´t buy at all even I´m a NI Komplete 12 Ultimate Collectors Edition user.

 

M-Audio Oxygene Pro disappoints w/ just only a sustain pedal input, lack of a MIDI CCpedal connector and 1 MIDI-Out only,- even it might offer the same action as the discontinued Code 61.

 

I´d consider Nektar Panorama T6 and Roland A-800 Pro too !

 

On the A-800 Pro I´d like MIDI merge and keyboard-split (upper/lower on separate MIDI channels) functionality (like on my Edirol PCR300).

 

 

A.C.

[johnchop]

I have done my research and I am not going for cheaper, not from M-Audio, not from Nektar or any other brand.

But thanks for the suggestions, anyway

 

Understood.

 

BTW the Arturia feels pretty synthy to me, in that there's not much resistance. However, I've always found they had good aftertouch and velocity control, despite being a pretty featherweight action.

[GuiliClayder]

Something else : Ableton Live Link... pretty cool !

 

I will have my MIDI controler on my desk, where I have my iMac. I'd also like to integrate my MP11SE into my setup : this one will be next to me, in an L-shaped setup.

When playing the Kawai, I will not be able to look straight at my iMac's screen, but I also have a Macbook Pro.

 

I suppose using Ableton Live Link, I could, in theory, install Ableton Live on both my iMac and Macbook, and work on the same project, with the two computers synced ?

Very cool, if it really is as simple as that.

I don't suppose Logic can be set up in a similar way ?

Edit : I guess a 'synced' setup could be achieved using Mac screen sharing, or even better, using Logic remote on my iPad...

 

But back to the controllers : I see various opinions about the Keylab MK2, going from very good, built like a tank, best controller ever, to, well, basically 'meh'...

As for the Novation : it's actually hard to find something negative about it.

I admit I have a soft spot for the Arturia, it looks supberb (especially the black one) and the fact it's made of metal, should differentiate it enough from the rest. Tough choice...

[analogman1]

I've been thinking about the Nektar Panorama T6 61-key Keyboard Controller...

It has both a sustain pedal out AND an expression pedal out; as well as 9 faders for playing organ.

 

Any opinions on using this with MainStage?

[Reezekeys]

On the A-800 Pro I´d like MIDI merge and keyboard-split (upper/lower on separate MIDI channels) functionality (like on my Edirol PCR300).

 

The A800 Pro has both of these.

[GuiliClayder]

It's funny how reviews of the Keylab MK2, either editorial or user, are so different and contradictory.

Some say it's absolutely fantastic, that the build quality is second to none, with a high quality expressive keybed, whereas others, mostly users, claim it's an interesteing design but with very poor build quality, keys with sharp edges made of cheap plastic, knobs and faders that lose resistance very fast, white keys tthat bend when you play a bit harder and you can basically fold over oneanother because they're so crap, etc. The list is endless.

 

Very difficult to form an opinion, then. It's mostly posiive, though, but you do hear some comments about quality issues, even on popular review sites and youtube channels...

What to think ?

[EscapeRocks]

I can only go by personal experience

 

My original second run Keylab 61 Black Edition has been gigged with 100's of time, and not one single issue. By second run, I mean it's the version where Arturia fixed the keybed issue.

It has a solid metal chassis, and takes abuse. Again, just my personal experience with it.

 

Here's a pic of it a couple months ago

 

On stage 4 years ago

 

Because of my positive experiences going back to 2014, it remains my "go to" 61 note controller for live shows.

[Reezekeys]

Buy from a store with a generous return window and keep the shipping box for a while. As far as reviews, I usually "read between the lines", i.e. I get a sense of the "reviewer" from how they write and what they choose to focus on in their review. You can usually determine which review is more legit. Also when you you hear about these negatives - is it one isolated review, or more than a few people reporting the same issue? There's a clue there, I think.

[Al Coda]

The A800 Pro has both of these.

 

Great,- thank you !

 

How´s the action ?

On my Edirol PSR300, I have to press keys very deep until they trigger.

 

I´d like to avoid such behaviour in future.

But I find the A-800 Pro very promising, especially for the price.

 

A.C.

[Reezekeys]

The A800 Pro has both of these.

 

Great,- thank you !

 

How´s the action ?

On my Edirol PSR300, I have to press keys very deep until they trigger.

 

I´d like to avoid such behaviour in future.

But I find the A-800 Pro very promising, especially for the price.

 

A.C.

 

I have no problem with the action - it's light but springy (quick). I like that. Also, no side-to-side play, and I feel no difference in the force required to press black vs white keys. I honestly never thought about where the notes trigger - my acoustic piano playing heavy hand bottoms these keys out fast enough! You got me curious, so here's a little video I cooked up. I have no idea how this compares with your Edirol or any other similar board. All I know is it's never bothered me. I suppose someone playing organ would want a higher trigger point.

 

[video:youtube]

[Al Coda]

I have no problem with the action - it's light but springy (quick). I like that.

 

Thx for the vid !

I know you´re a working pro ...

I was ...

I´ll order/ try one !

 

best ..

 

A.C.

[GuiliClayder]

I had a little studio in mind and was going to put my MP11SE alongside my desk (L-shaped setup), and obviously have the MIDI controller and the iMac on the desk (sold my house and moving to my appartment).

Turns out that the MP11SE is somewhat too big and cumbersome. In other words, it won't fit. So I guess I'll be selling it anyway.

 

I could go for a 88-key controller right away, but Iwould still like to have the controller separate from my piano. So, I need a compact replacement for the MP11SE.

A simple 88 key controller like the M-Audio Hammer 88 could fit the bill, but that is even longer than my MP11SE. Casio CDP-S100 or PX-S1000 then and use it as a controller. Could work.

The Korg D1, that should be perfect, it has a superb action that I've played and love, so I guess that would be perfect.

Only, it has no USB MIDI. Apparently, connecting it with a Roland UMK-One MK2 works perfectly.

Anyone tried using the D1 as a controller ?

 

As far as reviews, I usually "read between the lines", i.e. I get a sense of the "reviewer" from how they write and what they choose to focus on in their review. You can usually determine which review is more legit. Also when you you hear about these negatives - is it one isolated review, or more than a few people reporting the same issue? There's a clue there, I think.

 

Well, user reviews need to be taken with a grain of salt, I guess. But so do the more serious ones. Maybe they're being paid to say good things about a certain brand, even though most of them claim they're not paid. In the end, you can only trust yourself, I guess. I might take a chance on the Arturia, not sure yet, but only because i think the Novation might be a bit too complicated for a novice like me...

[Reezekeys]

Thx for the vid !

I know you´re a working pro ...

I was ...

I´ll order/ try one !.

 

You're quite welcome â good luck. You understand this model has been around since 2009?!! Roland has yet to update its small controllers. So, no fancy "DAW/VI integration" or color LCD panels, you're on your own to program all the controls (I have a feeling that won't be a problem for you).

 

(BTW - if you like an easy semitone transpose, look somewhere else! That observation was in one of my first posts here 8 years ago, little did I know the shit I was starting!).

[Reezekeys]

Well, user reviews need to be taken with a grain of salt, I guess. But so do the more serious ones. Maybe they're being paid to say good things about a certain brand, even though most of them claim they're not paid. In the end, you can only trust yourself, I guess. I might take a chance on the Arturia, not sure yet, but only because i think the Novation might be a bit too complicated for a novice like me...

 

All reviews are a little suspect to me since the "official" ones are in magazines or entities that need advertising revenue from the manufacturers to keep bread on the table. This is a big generality, but I seem to notice that many of these reviews, in their effort to appear "independent", find something to complain about â but it's usually a pretty mild complaint. It's there, imo, to foster the "illusion of impartiality." Sometimes I get the feeling the reviewer is struggling to find that little thing to criticize, just to keep up this appearance.

 

Good luck on your hunt. Here's what I do - once I find a piece of gear that works for me, I keep it and stop looking for something "better." All my stuff is old, I'm GAS-free and happy.

[Niccolo]

Interested in the subject since I am also looking for a 61 keys MIDI controller.

I have read lots of good reviews of the AKAI Professional MPK261, but I have not seen it mentioned here. How does it compare with the Arturia Keylab MKII 61 in your opinion?

[drawback]

Interested in the subject since I am also looking for a 61 keys MIDI controller.

I have read lots of good reviews of the AKAI Professional MPK261, but I have not seen it mentioned here. How does it compare with the Arturia Keylab MKII 61 in your opinion?

 

Without comparing any deeper, the Arturia wins just by the fact it has 9 sliders.

[Mighty Motif Max]

I've briefly played the MPK249 which has the same action as the 261. It's very stiff. That's all I recall as it's been a number of years.

[GuiliClayder]

The Akai MPK series is quite old, out since 2014, if I'm not mistaken. I don't think it'd be wise to buy one now, as they're probably going to be succeeded by something new...

[Reezekeys]

New = better? Not always imo. As I said above, my A800 Pro dates from 2009 - and it's still being sold. There's nothing I need that it doesn't have â and lots of stuff it has that I'll never use - like "ACT" ("active controller technology"). It feels good to play, but one thing it doesn't have is the M-Audio "you can't hit a wrong note" feature I see touted for their new "pro" weighted-action board. Pro indeed (I guess we "pros"need all the help we can get)! Speaking of weighted-action, I'll put the feel of my 37-year-old Yam KX88 against any modern controller.