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"stage" keyboard for home use (EPs/Organs - focused)


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Hi all,

 

first post here (sorry, it will be long), although I read the forum for some time (most of the things below came from reading posts here)

 

I am not a pianist or musician I am just playing (or trying to) for myself in my free time - (I am in my mid 40s already)

I never had any piano training, what I have learned is from books/videos etc.

 

What I like (keyboard-wise) is electric pianos (Rhodes-Wurlis), and recently digging Hammond organ (and acoustic pianos of course). I don't mind particularly about synth sounds

 

A year ago I bought a Yamaha P121 (its 73 key) and I am mostly happy with it as it ticks most of my boxes:

 

- has a good keybed (for me at least) and I like more or less the sounds of it

- Has 73 keys (I prefer 73 keys- 88 keys are big for my space and 61 I think is a compromise)

- USB Audio interface - almost a must for me (see below)

- Good sound through headphones - an important thing as this is the way I usually usuit (speakers is just a good to have)

- Also has internal speakers (good to have - not a must)

 

What I don't like is the varietyof sounds it has (I knew it of course when I bought it) and the fact that these sounds are not customisable at all (no effects apart form reverb)

 

I am fine with acoustic pianos but I would like more in electric pianos and organs and also the ability to tweek the sounds a bit (adding effects)

 

So I am looking for other options (is not something urgent) either to replace my P121 or as an additional keyboard

If I keep my P121 (undortunately no MIDI out but can use PC or MiDI host box) I would probably go for a 61-key, else I would go for a 73-key

I understand should be semi weighted/waterfall (given that will be organ oriented) and I want as I said good rhodes/wurli shounds and organs

 

One more important thing:

I have my PC close to piano and when practicing (for example seeing a video lesson or just listening a backing track) and I want to be able to hear the sound of the piano and the sound of my PC at the same time through headphones

AFAIK the options for the piano are:

a) to be USB Audio interface - this is the best option (what I have with P121)

b) if I dont have option 1, then I need audio/line in my keyboard: this way I can connect my PC's output to piano's in and listen both at the same time

c) if I don't have any of the previous, I guess the last option is to take piano's out and send it to an audio interface's inputs (or a mixer) and listen through interface's headphones via direct monitoring?

I don't know if this is a viable option - I had tested it with a Komplete Audio 2 I had but the sound was terrible comparing to the piano's headphone out. Probably I did something wrong?

Is there any ther option that I am missing?

 

From what I have seen, (even though I am not intending to play live :) ), the ones I like the most and tick most of my boxes are stage pianos/keyboards

 

So the options I am considering are Vox Continental/Yamaha YC61/Nord Electro (with prices in my area)

 

(even though I am tempted to try a clone like Crumar Mojo or Legend Solo - I leave this options aside for now)

 

61 keys

 

-Vox Continental 61 (1.000.00)

-Yamaha YC61 (1.659,00)

-Nord Electro 6 61 (1,690.00)

 

73 keys

 

-Vox Continental 73 (1,250.00)

-Nord Electro 6 73 (1,850.00)

 

So for 61 keys, there is one cheaper option (Vox) and 2 other more expensive and similarly priced (yc61, electro)

For 73 keys only 2 options (YC73 is much more expensive, given that there is only a hammer action option)

 

-Vox Continental

 

I like it, the price is good and seems to handle (almost) everything I need. Also there are both 61 and 73 options!

I have read lots of good things here about the sounds and the keybed

I know that organs are not very configurable and I have read about some other limitations about splitting (lack of independent octave shift) but I think I can live with these

(I understand that has 19 B3 variations and each one of them has a specific vibrato/percussion setting assigned to it that can be set to on/off only but you cannot select another one)

Not sure about the digital drawbars but again, given the price I will be fine

Also it has a volume pedal for free

 

BUT it has no audio interface nor line-in! If it was audio interface it would be the most obvious choice...

 

-Yamaha YC61

 

I think it ticks all my boxes, much pricier than Vox.

One negative I read about is the lack of 'high trigger' for organ but I dont think I will ever noticed it since I have no experience with proper organs

 

-Nord Electro

- There are 61 and 73 waterfall options

- unfortunately no audio interface but at least it has line in

- interface seems to me more complicated than Yamaha's and Vox's but I guess will get used to it

 

- If only Vox had just an audio in - it would be my choice (unless there is another way to achieve what I described above (the others are much more expensive- with the difference I can get various things like case, some better monitors etc)

- the other 61-key options (Yamaha-Nord) cost the same. I know there would be differences in sound but Yamaha seems more tempting for me (audio interface) even if you cannot upload sounds. Is there any reason to pick Nord apart for the ability to load sounds?

(I dont't care about capabilities in live settings - as I said its only for home use)

- For 73 keys there are only 2 options

 

When shops are open again I am going to try it (I am sure I can find Yamaha and Nord - I doubt about the Vox)

 

Any opinions are welcomed

Yamaha P121
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Nord Electro is a great choice for Rhodes and organ. With version 6 on the market it is easier to find earlier versions at a good price on the used market. Honestly, I would recommend any model from 3 on up if it is in really good condition. Used keyboards can be tricky as heavy use can wear out contacts. The one issue that many have is that Rhodes/piano is not normally played on an organ key bed. It does not bother me as much as some people. Although it is overkill for what you want, if you happen upon a Korg Kronos 1 61 key it will give you everything and more. With two more recent editions to the Kronos, the version 1 can sometimes be found at a great price. I do recommend that you stay away from the larger, hammer action versions of the Kronos 1 as they had an issue with the keyboard. This was resolved with version 2, the Kronos X. While used workstations from Yamaha and Roland are normally great, the weak point is organ so I would stay away from the Motif or Fantom. The Kronos definitely has the best implementation of workstation organ.

This post edited for speling.

My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page

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@George welcome to the forum. Don't worry about the apparent complexity of the Electro - it's it's a simple board.

 

I think keeping your P121 and adding an unweighted/organ-action board is the way to go. All the options you have chosen are nice - I would suggest you also consider the Roland VR09/VR730 as well. It has a "reasonable" organ with high trigger, plus some synth capability with real-time control from the drawbars. It should be easy to find in the stores.

 

Forumites, I can't remember. Can the YC61/73 be a USB host like the Montage/MODX (with the latest OS updates)? If so that makes it a front-runner in my opinion.

 

Otherwise I would probably rethink your audio strategy, and use the PC as the "routing hub" of your setup. Get an audio interface with at least two inputs, and run both keyboards into the PC. Also use a MIDI utility to route USB MIDI from the P121 into your new board.

 

Cheers, Mike.

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I won"t offer an opinion on the choice of keyboard, but I would highly recommend basing your decision on the action and the sounds rather than the audio routing. You can always buy a small mixer or, as the others have indicated, multi input audio interface for a *fraction* of the cost of the keyboard. Compromising on the keyboard to save 50£ on a mixer would seem silly.

 

I have a Nord Stage 2 and am a huge fan of Nords. They are so intuitive and simple to use that they make turning on and playing a joy. Everything is a button push away; no menu diving required.

Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8

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I have always found it difficult to find an all-in-one package that I was happy with, all in one for me being:

 

the right keybed

the keyboard functioning as a controller

having excellent sounds (acoustic piano, organ, rhodes, wurli, clavinet, brass, strings, synth, yada, yada)

 

The closest one I found for me was the Kurzweil PC3, which I purchased 10 years ago and is still my bread and butter keyboard. Have you thought about breaking your list into two pieces, i.e. modules that cover the sound and a keyboard that meets your keybed and controller requirements?

 

For the sounds that you mention that you are searching for the Gemini desktop/rack surely would meet your needs. Listen to it here --> audio/video link

 

Now all you have to worry about is choosing the right controller, something with 9 sliders that can trigger the organ drawbars on the Gemini and other controls to turn off/on features like effects and others. Perhaps something like an M-Audio Oxygen 88; it also has 9 sliders, midi out and USB out. You could also use your current P121 if you like the keybed on it. the advantage of this is that if you later want to switch out the keyboard you still have desktop module, i.e. it's not tied to a keyboard. when you buy an all in one package and you get rid of the keyboard you are getting rid of everything, including the sound package. This approach separates the sounds from the physical controller and allows you to pick the controller of your choice without worrying about the sounds.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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I note you said 88 keys is to big but not all 88 key units are big.

 

I had a P121 and sold it, piano sounds were good remainder not so good.

 

I bought a Numa Compact 2X, so it has great acoustic piano sounds, great electric piano sounds and even better organ plus it has drawbars so what is not to like?

 

It is not much longer than the P121, its narrow and not as high plus it weighs a mere 7kg.

 

ALTERNATE

 

Keep your P121 and connect up an iPad and use the hundreds of Apps that are available

Col

 

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thank you all for you replies so far

 

In general, I would prefer to have all these sounds on board, so being able to power on and play without the need of any PC/tablet or enen an external module (knowing the limitations this approach has)

 

@RABid

A used one is of course an option, I always keep an eye, but I would get one only if I could see it first, so options are limited

 

@stoken6

YC61 can be a USB host (it happens with almost all Yamaha's I think)

 

@Dr88s

yes thats an interesting perspective - thats why I am still considering the VOX too

So, as I asked, can I use a multi input audio interface for just monitoring keyboard sounds while listening PC audio at the same time?

I mean technically I know I can, but as I mentioned, I had tried it with a Komplete Audio 2 I had, but, for some reason, the piano audio quality I was getting through audio interface's headphone out was not acceptable.

 

@Delaware Dave

I understand the benefits of using a controller with an external module but I think I prefer an all-in-one approach atm

I will have a look at Kurzweil models, I am not very familiar with them

 

@Biggles

Interesting that you prefer Numa Compact 2X over P121 for almost all sounds.

I know about Numa Compact 2X but just seemed to me too good to be true as an option.

Yes its 16cm wider than P121, probably I could rearrange my space - doesn't fit as is right now

I think I will add it again in my list

Yamaha P121
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Forumites, I can't remember. Can the YC61/73 be a USB host

Yes. Of the 3 boards the OP mentioned, Vox has no audio input, Nord has a line input, and the YC has both line and USB audio input.

 

In general, I'd rate them this way:

 

ACTION: Vox, then YC61, then Nord

ORGAN SOUND: Nord, then YC61, then Vox (YC61 has potential to move up if they address the complaints about the rotary effect)

EP SOUND: Vox, then probably Nord then YC61, though I need to hear more to be sure how I feel about the order of the last two

 

Since a computer will be part of the rig regardless (at least some of the time), my inclination would be to go with the Vox. Its weakness is the organ sound, but that can be well addressed with software if and when necessary. Sound can be improved with software, but the action is the action. (And the internal organ sound may well be sufficient for most/all uses for the forseeable future anyway.) The fact that the Vox is also cheapest is a bonus, and the lower cost should more than cover the cost of what you need to address the monitoring issue with an external mixer. From what I can tell, it's probably simpler than you think it is. Just plug the piano, the Vox, and the computer each into their own inputs of the mixer, and plug your headphones into the mixer. Obviously the piano and the Vox have audio outs for this. Plugging the computer audio into the mixer is the only thing that might be tricky, depending on your computer/OS, and whether or not you end up using it for things besides "seeing a video lesson or just listening a backing track" (like recording your performances, or using a VST for a better organ sound)... you may or may not need to buy an interface.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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@Dr88s

yes thats an interesting perspective - thats why I am still considering the VOX too

So, as I asked, can I use a multi input audio interface for just monitoring keyboard sounds while listening PC audio at the same time?

I mean technically I know I can, but as I mentioned, I had tried it with a Komplete Audio 2 I had, but, for some reason, the piano audio quality I was getting through audio interface's headphone out was not

 

As you said, technically you should be able to. I"m wondering if any kind of latency may become an issue if you are trying to play along with, e.g., a YouTube video. I think your safest bet in that case, if you are not using your computer for VSTis, is to output your computer"s audio went to a small mixer with your keyboard(s).

 

If you plan to use it for recording in a DAW or play virtual instruments, then definitely go the interface route. The challenge will be achieving acceptable latency.

 

 

 

@Biggles

 

Where the hell was Biggles when you needed him last Saturday?

(A little Jethro Tull humour...)

Nord Stage 2 Compact, Yamaha MODX8

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In general, I'd rate them this way:

 

ACTION: Vox, then YC61, then Nord

ORGAN SOUND: Nord, then YC61, then Vox (YC61 has potential to move up if they address the complaints about the rotary effect)

EP SOUND: Vox, then probably Nord then YC61, though I need to hear more to be sure how I feel about the order of the last two

 

1) Regarding the organ sound of the Vox:

the ranking is about the non-existence of parameters control (vib/chorus/percussion) or about the organ sound itself?

I understand that there are 19 variations, and each one has a specific vib/chorus and percussion setting (that is not documented) that can be switched on/off and thats it.

Also, every variation (apart from drawbar settings) has different "character" or something? Has speficic drive for example that cannot be reduced or disabled?

 

2) How would you rate Numa Compact 2X? (given its even lower price). Its 88 keys that I don't want and also no waterfall keys but the price... (some new EPs added recently as well)

Yamaha P121
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1) Regarding the organ sound of the Vox:

the ranking is about the non-existence of parameters control (vib/chorus/percussion) or about the organ sound itself?

That ranking was just for sound.

 

I like the CX3 (and CX3 engine in Kronos) more than a lot of people do, but part of that is that it is so tweakable. The Vox takes out the tweakability, so whether or not you happen to like the available voicings is luck of the draw.

 

I understand that there are 19 variations, and each one has a specific vib/chorus and percussion setting (that is not documented) that can be switched on/off and thats it.

Also, every variation (apart from drawbar settings) has different "character" or something? Has speficic drive for example that cannot be reduced or disabled?

Yes to all of that.

 

2) How would you rate Numa Compact 2X? (given its even lower price). Its 88 keys that I don't want and also no waterfall keys but the price... (some new EPs added recently as well)

I'd prefer the Vox in all three cetagories... action, organ sound (due to overdrive/rotary), EP sound.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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1) Regarding the organ sound of the Vox:

the ranking is about the non-existence of parameters control (vib/chorus/percussion) or about the organ sound itself?

That ranking was just for sound.

 

I like the CX3 (and CX3 engine in Kronos) more than a lot of people do, but part of that is that it is so tweakable. The Vox takes out the tweakability, so whether or not you happen to like the available voicings is luck of the draw.

 

I understand that there are 19 variations, and each one has a specific vib/chorus and percussion setting (that is not documented) that can be switched on/off and thats it.

Also, every variation (apart from drawbar settings) has different "character" or something? Has speficic drive for example that cannot be reduced or disabled?

Yes to all of that.

 

2) How would you rate Numa Compact 2X? (given its even lower price). Its 88 keys that I don't want and also no waterfall keys but the price... (some new EPs added recently as well)

I'd prefer the Vox in all three cetagories... action, organ sound (due to overdrive/rotary), EP sound.

thanks a lot!

Yamaha P121
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Can't go wrong with any of the Nord Stage 3 products. Overpriced in my opinion, but they will do what you want and more.

There is a reason why you see them on stages everywhere. Piano / Synth / Organ, Computer interface (USB), hundreds of free sounds, good technical support, etc...

 

 

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Nord Electro or Stage. Best ease-of-use interface, all-around stellar sounds that you can keep updating for as long as you have the drive space. I tend to look at some other brands that keep going off in all directions as "last year's" models fairly quickly*, whereas Nords stick with a design that works, makes incremental improvements mostly "under the hood." And they are very well built, by hand. They maintain value in resale.

 

*case in point, the disruption of the CP line with the YC line. That was fast.

____________________________________
Rod

Here for the gear.

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Nord Stage that was mentioned is definitely not for me - out of my budget and for more profesional players than me :)

 

Welcome George.

I love the Vox (got three of them, go figure) and I second A/Scott"s views.

Yeah I have seen your posts in the Vox threads: 2 x 73 and 1 x 61

Yamaha P121
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