I have humbucker pickup questions

[wraub]

I've always been a Strat player, but I've always loved the sound of good humbuckers, especially P.A.F. types, with that buttery warmth and sweet honky goodness.

However, I recently acquired some reportedly good humbuckers, and will soon install them in a guitar. This guitar has three holes for pots, and another for a 3 way toggle switch.

Alternatively, I would acquire a Strat body, but I figure I'll use what I have.

 

500K pots and a .047 cap sound right?

 

My first thoughts were to wire it up like an Explorer or a V, but... Suggestions are welcome and encouraged.

 

Thanks.

[Caevan O’Shite]

I've always been a Strat player, but I've always loved the sound of good humbuckers, especially P.A.F. types, with that buttery warmth and sweet honky goodness.

However, I recently acquired some reportedly good humbuckers, and will soon install them in a guitar. This guitar has three holes for pots, and another for a 3 way toggle switch.

Alternatively, I would acquire a Strat body, but I figure I'll use what I have.

 

500K pots and a .047 cap sound right?

 

My first thoughts were to wire it up like an Explorer or a V, but... Suggestions are welcome and encouraged.

 

Thanks.

 

Yeah, 500k volume-pots. Maybe with a "treble-bleed" cap and resistor across it, though I never bothered with that with my Les Paul (which being stock as far as I know, probably doesn't have that, although I never checked! ), and it's always seemed alright and I use its volume-controls A LOT. Try it 'standard', no 'treble-bleed' first; if you feel that it sounds too muddy when you turn down the volume knob, then look to that 'treble-bleed' cap and resistor.

 

Try a .022mfd cap on the tone control; if this isn't dark enough for your tastes when you use the tone-control, then try that .047mfd.

 

Go for an Explorer/V scheme, with two Volume controls (Neck and Bridge) and one Master Tone control, and a three-way selector toggle. Adjusting the volume-controls differently for each pickup and switching between 'em is a classic maneuver and loads of fun! Old school players might often set the neck-pickup volume low and the bridge-pickup volume high, to switch from cleaner to meaner tones with a cranked tube-amp. Or, maybe try the opposite!

 

After setting the pickups up for a good balance between 'em- a little higher/closer to the strings for the bridge-pickup, as the neck-pickup will tend to be louder due to the location along the strings length- you can then adjust the individual volume-controls to tweak the blend of the two with the switch in the middle position.

 

I wouldn't have it any other way with my Les Paul! That is, two volume controls, though it also has the two tone-controls typical of a Les Paul. I love adjusting those two volume-knobs on the fly all the time as I'm playing!

[Scott Fraser]

How about one volume, one blend & one tone?

[Larryz]

Wraub, +1 on Caevan's suggestion of having two volume controls with a 3way and using your 3rd pot slot for a master tone.

 

I used a pair of US made 57 Gibson gold humbuckers on my last upgrade as they are my favorite pups. I put the strongest one in the bridge position. (same wiring as an LP and I'm using two volume and two tone controls)...

 

I used a Switchcraft 3way toggle switch

 

22iu Orange Drop capacitors

 

500k Gibson audio taper pots (fine spline and speed knobs)

 

It really wasn't cheap but it really came out sweet! Good luck on the project!

[wraub]

Okay, great, and thanks.Thanks for the replies.

This is an opportunity for me to make a guitar I can have for years- a solid comfortable body, great feeling neck, and good pickups- plus, unusual.

I want to do this right, and don't mind spending a little money on it. So far, this project has been all about luck and deals, I think it deserves some support.

 

Definitely Switchcraft toggle and CTS pots. I'll likely get a variety of caps and choose a favorite. Knobs are still tbd, but I tend to prefer simple and unlabelled- I play by feel and sound, numbers on knobs confuse me lol.

I want everything to feel solid so probably avoiding plastics as much as possible.

The guitar didn't have a pickguard, but I think I'm going to make one and mount pickups to that (or maybe directly to the body) and avoid pickup rings. The guitar also has years of mileage on it, which is staying unless I really get motivated with paint, so worn hardware and bits are okay with me.

 

Shopping is fun.

[desertbluesman]

500K pots and a .047 cap sound right?

 

Yep

[wraub]

Thanks all.

I think I'm going to get a new body, and move all the parts to that.

Right now I have a neck, tuners, and pickups, and that's a good start.

 

I'm thinking of a Tele body, because I've never had one, and it would be a fairly unusual Tele at that.Budget is important, but somewhat flexible on cost for the"right" thing.

This would be the first guitar I've made for me, and I want to do it right.

 

Kinda bored with Strat bodies atm, but still haven't ruled one out. Honestly, besides 25.5" scale, and not pointy I'm pretty undecided.

Suggestions?

[KuruPrionz]

Instead of a blend knob, go with the 3 way switch.

 

A volume and tone is plenty. If there is another hole, add a series parallel switch for the neck pickup. Parallel humbucker in the neck position is a sweet tone, sort of "single-coil-ish" but without hum. It won't have the volume to compete with a bridge humbucker but you may find it useful.

[KuruPrionz]

Also, if you do decide you would like 2 volume controls, copy the wiring of a Fender Jazz bass rather than a Gibson Explorer. Use the 500k pots, you may prefer a .22 tone cap.

 

The difference is that the pickup output lead on a Gibson circuit is connected to an outside lug of the pot. The center lead is the output of the pot and the opposite outside lug is ground, which means that turning the volume of one pickup all the way down will turn the guitar off. At a certain point, either of the two volume pots will be turning down both pickups.

 

The Jazz bass wired the output of the pickup to the center lug of the pot. One outside lug is the output of the pot, the other is the ground. This means you can turn one pickup all the way down and the other pickup will still be on. The influence of having pots that are not grounding the output is nice to have. You can have a switch if you want, or not - a Jazz Bass doesn't have one.

 

For one thing, you can now used the pickup switch as a "stutter" effect. Turn one pickup off and leave the other all the way up. Just work the switch to get the stutter.

[Dannyalcatraz]

Thanks all.

I think I'm going to get a new body, and move all the parts to that.

Right now I have a neck, tuners, and pickups, and that's a good start.

 

I'm thinking of a Tele body, because I've never had one, and it would be a fairly unusual Tele at that.Budget is important, but somewhat flexible on cost for the"right" thing.

This would be the first guitar I've made for me, and I want to do it right.

 

Kinda bored with Strat bodies atm, but still haven't ruled one out. Honestly, besides 25.5" scale, and not pointy I'm pretty undecided.

Suggestions?

 

What kind of suggestions are you looking for? Wood types?

 

I have a pair of Rock Beach guitars- fellow forumite Boggs"s brand- made of Claro walnut & Birdseye maple. Walnut is a beautiful wood. Someone else I know has a walnut Teleclone with a red pearloid pickguard- looks like someone made a cherry bonbon into a telecaster. But the world is full of beautiful woods perfect for guitar. And unassuming looking woods as well.

 

Finishes?

 

I pretty much favor translucent finishes if the wood has nice grain. If not, even though I have some tradiitional finishes, I see no reason not to get a fancier finish if it calls you. I personally have an appetite for metal flake, but only own a couple like that...so far. One of my Rock Beaches is a Teleclone with a translucent finish that shows the walnut grain...but also shows a ghostly fleur de lis design.

 

 

Ergonomics?

 

Nothing wrong with a traditional slab, but the more I play, the more I appreciate the carves of carefully crafted ergonomics.

 

Electronics? I really like the one guitar I have with a blend knob instead of a pickup selector.

 

Then there"s the Bill Kirchen mod:

[video:youtube]

[o0Ampy0o]

Also, if you do decide you would like 2 volume controls, copy the wiring of a Fender Jazz bass rather than a Gibson Explorer. Use the 500k pots, you may prefer a .22 tone cap.

 

The difference is that the pickup output lead on a Gibson circuit is connected to an outside lug of the pot. The center lead is the output of the pot and the opposite outside lug is ground, which means that turning the volume of one pickup all the way down will turn the guitar off. At a certain point, either of the two volume pots will be turning down both pickups.

 

The Jazz bass wired the output of the pickup to the center lug of the pot. One outside lug is the output of the pot, the other is the ground. This means you can turn one pickup all the way down and the other pickup will still be on. The influence of having pots that are not grounding the output is nice to have. You can have a switch if you want, or not - a Jazz Bass doesn't have one.

 

For one thing, you can now used the pickup switch as a "stutter" effect. Turn one pickup off and leave the other all the way up. Just work the switch to get the stutter.

 

How does the wiring of a Les Paul compare?

 

Regardless, I"d consider that the volume turning a pickup off or both off is something you just get accustomed to. Unless you are used to a different wiring AND you regularly utilized the differences in your playing technique you will not accidentally stumble into silence.

 

Also, if going with a Tele body you might consider installing the switch/knob plate assembly swapping orientation. Many players like the position of the toggle switch and access to the knobs this results in.

[wraub]

Thanks, again.

 

I think my issue is that I have too many choices.

 

Questions answered-

 

Comfort and playability is paramount. Weight and balance are important to me, I don't like heavy guitars, generally.

 

The pickups I have are PAF types, so looking for simple controls. I want to hear the pickups do what they do.

 

Using PAF pickups, I'm leaning towards mahogany or maple/mahogany, to try to get some LP flavor in here.

 

I have considered Jazz Bass wiring, and would probably go that way if I use three controls, but, that's not set either. Getting a new body changes things

 

Hardtail preferred, or possibly a Fender-type trem. I don't usually use a trem, and larger ones are just mass in my way.

 

I'd like to avoid a pickguard.

 

The neck I have is a Jackson pointy replacement neck, so hoping to avoid a pointy body. I thought the Tele would work well with it, but I would need contours, etc.

 

So far, I've looked at everything from used Squiers to a one-off flame maple custom job. Price is kind of a consideration, but this, hopefully, will be a forever guitar, so not opposed to spending a little. I think the pickups deserve it.

I usually don't like to baby a guitar, so relic is fine... but, I did see a purple flake body that was especially groovy.

 

 

 

tldr- I'm not set on a Tele, I'm still undecided.

[KuruPrionz]

Also, if you do decide you would like 2 volume controls, copy the wiring of a Fender Jazz bass rather than a Gibson Explorer. Use the 500k pots, you may prefer a .22 tone cap.

 

The difference is that the pickup output lead on a Gibson circuit is connected to an outside lug of the pot. The center lead is the output of the pot and the opposite outside lug is ground, which means that turning the volume of one pickup all the way down will turn the guitar off. At a certain point, either of the two volume pots will be turning down both pickups.

 

The Jazz bass wired the output of the pickup to the center lug of the pot. One outside lug is the output of the pot, the other is the ground. This means you can turn one pickup all the way down and the other pickup will still be on. The influence of having pots that are not grounding the output is nice to have. You can have a switch if you want, or not - a Jazz Bass doesn't have one.

 

For one thing, you can now used the pickup switch as a "stutter" effect. Turn one pickup off and leave the other all the way up. Just work the switch to get the stutter.

 

How does the wiring of a Les Paul compare?

 

Regardless, I"d consider that the volume turning a pickup off or both off is something you just get accustomed to. Unless you are used to a different wiring AND you regularly utilized the differences in your playing technique you will not accidentally stumble into silence.

 

Also, if going with a Tele body you might consider installing the switch/knob plate assembly swapping orientation. Many players like the position of the toggle switch and access to the knobs this results in.

 

All Gibson wiring harnesses with dual volume pots are wired the same way - output shunts to ground on both pots. You can get used to breathing polluted air too, people do it all the time. That does not make it a good idea.

I know many revere the Gibson Les Paul but it is hardly the pinnacle of solid body electric guitar design, never was and never will be. FWIW, I've owned (and sold) 9 different Gibson Les Pauls, from Customs on down, and as a guitar tech I've worked on many.

[wraub]

This is the kind of Strat body I'd get, if I got a Strat body- I don't want the usual.

 

 

Or, maybe, this maple/mahogany Tele-

[KuruPrionz]

What does the back side look like? Is there an access plate under the neck pickup?

 

It's difficult to comment on the "fun" of lining up the height adjustment screws for the neck pickup with the threaded holes in the pickups. It won't be easy.

 

Without back access the pickup will block vision and you'll be fumbling about trying to get everything secured. The tension springs will be a particular source of torment, you'll have to hold the springs in place while you run the mounting bolts down the hole with the pickup sitting at the bottom of the cavity. I dunno, it just looks like a nightmare to me.

 

At the same time...

If there is an access plate with cavity underneath, that could undermine what appears to be a potentially weak neck joint.

Looks like Alder with those dark brown streaks. Nice, light wood but not one of your stronger woods. The trees survive because they are flexible and bend with the wind. Flexible is good but not for a part that needs to hold firm.

 

Those would be my concerns. Having the volume control so close is a matter of personal preference. There are strat switches that are designed to allow a wide variety of pickup wiring configurations, worth looking into.

 

Since you added a second photo - I like that Tele, it will be easy to build.

[wraub]

The back looks like this, it is alder- covers are included.

 

 

 

 

 

What does the back side look like? Is there an access plate under the neck pickup?

 

It's difficult to comment on the "fun" of lining up the height adjustment screws for the neck pickup with the threaded holes in the pickups. It won't be easy.

 

Without back access the pickup will block vision and you'll be fumbling about trying to get everything secured. The tension springs will be a particular source of torment, you'll have to hold the springs in place while you run the mounting bolts down the hole with the pickup sitting at the bottom of the cavity. I dunno, it just looks like a nightmare to me.

 

At the same time...

If there is an access plate with cavity underneath, that could undermine what appears to be a potentially weak neck joint.

Looks like Alder with those dark brown streaks. Nice, light wood but not one of your stronger woods. The trees survive because they are flexible and bend with the wind. Flexible is good but not for a part that needs to hold firm.

 

Those would be my concerns. Having the volume control so close is a matter of personal preference. There are strat switches that are designed to allow a wide variety of pickup wiring configurations, worth looking into.

 

Since you added a second photo - I like that Tele, it will be easy to build.

[KuruPrionz]

OK, that would be pretty easy. The builder thought the same thing I did.

 

Do they make a model with a center strip of maple, ash or walnut? All of those have more strength and will make a more solid neck joint as well as increase sustain a little.

 

Also - side jack on the edge of the body? If they offer the option for a standard Strat jack plate mount I really prefer that. It keeps the end of the cord well up and out of the way of stands or other obstacles.

Plus, it still looks "Space Age".

[KuruPrionz]

Attached is a shot of one of my Tele builds.

The main reason I'm showing it is because the walnut top was sort of a grayish brown color and not interesting looking at all in the photo the Ebay seller provided.

Dad was a cabinet maker, I learned the trade to a certain extent. I could see that the wood would look great when sanded smooth and finished. Just clear lacquer, no stain or color.

 

Be aware of that - the flames in flamed maple will do the same thing, look pretty ok but boring until you get some finish on there. If you want color, seal the wood first and don't use a stain. Use a tinted clear coat for color, then more clear.

Stain will clog all the pore in the wood that make "flame" dance when the guitar is moving, it will look 2d and unexciting if you stain it.

 

The body needed some work, I had to drill the string holes and the neck bolt mount holes. No biggie if you have a drill press. The back of the body is pine, it's pretty too.

 

Deft in a rattle can is pretty good if you work on a warm day with no breeze. Beware of insects, they like the smell of lacquer and will land on your guitar before it dries. Don't ask me how I know this!!!!

 

https://flic.kr/p/2kHNdF5

[Larryz]

Wraub, I would probably go with the Strat body even though I'm not a fan of that stock top volume knob location even though it's good for volume swells (too close to the E string IMHO). I like the Tele body but I don't think there is enough room for two volume pots and a tone pot? Not able to see the back on the Tele body to see if it's flat or contoured for the belly like a comfortable Strat. The newer Tele bodies are contoured which I like. Anyway keep us posted!

[o0Ampy0o]

......You can get used to breathing polluted air too, people do it all the time. That does not make it a good idea.

I know many revere the Gibson Les Paul but it is hardly the pinnacle of solid body electric guitar design, never was and never will be. FWIW, I've owned (and sold) 9 different Gibson Les Pauls, from Customs on down, and as a guitar tech I've worked on many.

 

Did you feel challenged? You read as angry and defensive. Relax. I merely asked how the wiring compared with an Explorer's. I am familiar with a Les Paul's controls and never have had reason to care about the Explorer.

 

"Good" and "Bad" ....definitions and preferences change.......the words themselves are subjective.

 

Were they gifts or did you buy 9 of a guitar so distasteful to you it inspired thoughts of breathing polluted air and compelled you to shoot down its mere mention in this thread?

[KuruPrionz]

......You can get used to breathing polluted air too, people do it all the time. That does not make it a good idea.

I know many revere the Gibson Les Paul but it is hardly the pinnacle of solid body electric guitar design, never was and never will be. FWIW, I've owned (and sold) 9 different Gibson Les Pauls, from Customs on down, and as a guitar tech I've worked on many.

 

Did you feel challenged? You read as angry and defensive. Relax. I merely asked how the wiring compared with an Explorer's. I am familiar with a Les Paul's controls and never have had reason to care about the Explorer.

 

"Good" and "Bad" ....definitions and preferences change.......the words themselves are subjective.

 

Were they gifts or did you buy 9 of a guitar so distasteful to you it inspired thoughts of breathing polluted air and compelled you to shoot down its mere mention in this thread?

 

 

Sorry, this is one of the difficult things about these forum discussions. You can't see my expression or gestures when I speak. I happen to find "Les Paul Worship" (as exhibited by members of the Les Paul forum constantly) hilarious.

It's a tool, use it if you like it. I like other things more and use those. You may read me as angry and defensive, that's funny!

 

FWIW, I was/am a guitar tech. 50 years experience. One side gig of some guitar techs is to buy guitars, fix them up, play them for a while and sell them for a profit. Les Pauls are easy to sell and can bring good money. When I am done with them, they play perfectly. 9 Les Pauls out of several hundred guitars of all descriptions is hardly noteworthy to me. If I could buy 9 more guitars (from their rightful owners ONLY, no stolen gear ever!) for amenable prices I'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

I'm not guitar-phobic, some of them work better for me than others. You can play whatever you like, that's what I do. Since Wraub is building a custom guitar, he is not constrained by cork-sniffing customers and can do whatever he likes - which is why I recommended a wiring system that I find more useful than the one Gibson has clung to for going on 7 decades.

 

The difference between in the wiring harness is simple enough. An Explorer has a volume control for each pickup and a single tone control for both pickups, a Les Paul has volume and tone controls for each pickup. Both of them are wired the same otherwise. Getting the 2 volume pots to be independent of each other is as simple as swapping the input and output wires on each pot - 10 minutes with a soldering iron if you work slowly.

 

For me, I can either play my guitar or fiddle about with a bunch of knobs. I've chosen to play my guitar, it's more fun. Jeff Beck can play his guitar and work the whammy bar and volume knob while picking with the same hand, that's really cool. I haven't seem many guitarists that can even come close to that. On the other hand, BB King only played his guitar or sang, never both - one of the best shows I've seen - ever.

 

My 335 has one volume control and one 3 way switch. The other 3 knobs don't do anything. Once in while I will do "swells" with the volume control. Mostly it's all the way up and I adjust volume (and tone) with pick manipulation. The switch is mostly on the neck pickup, about 3 times a night I use both pickups. That's just me. You do you!!!! It's all good.

 

Nice to meet you, by the way.

[Scott Fraser]

I like the Tele body but I don't think there is enough room for two volume pots and a tone pot?

 

 

There is. Check this out:

 

https://shop.fender.com/en-US/electric-guitars/telecaster/brent-mason-telecaster/0115912793.html

[Larryz]

Thanks Scott! Yeah, that would work for me. That would be a great way to get a 3way and two volumes and a master tone on the Tele body Wraub was looking at...

 

ps. great cool video demo on the Brent Mason Tele on the site, well worth the time to watch! Makes me drool!

[KuruPrionz]

One thing I like about that Brent Mason Tele is that the pickups that are single coil shapes are dual coil humbuckers.

 

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

And more than one cat that needs skinning. They don't sound just like single coils but they don't sound like the larger humbuckers either. It's good to have variety!

 

The push-pull knob is cool too, the choices are simple and effective.

[Larryz]

I love the sound he gets with the mini-humbucker at the neck (the same as my old LP Deluxe). I could do without the B-bender (even though I love the steel guitar sound) as I could never get used to the strap pulling concept (same as Marty Stuart's guitar), and that little arm bar at the neck joint might get in my way. I really liked the demo as he went through all the clean settings first and then added a little distortion at the end and went through them again. That guitar can get every sound from clean jazz to die hard country and everything in between. The stacked pups in the bridge and middle would take care of any single coil hum. Just a rockabilly, jazz, rock and roll, country, country rock, special that I really like along with a little bit of Strat tone much like the Nashville Tele. If I was going to buy a Tele (made in Corona California) for $2,600, that would be the one I would want! I would just have to put up with that B-bender LOL!

 

ps. love the locking tuners too!

[Scott Fraser]

Well, when I win the Lottery I'm going to have Fender's Custom Shop make me a Brent Mason Tele, in sunburst, with binding. Without the B Bender. It's just the best combination of useable, yet different pickup combinations I've heard on any guitar. I guess I'd need a Strat style trem & an ebony fingerboard while I'm at it.

[KuruPrionz]

Well, when I win the Lottery I'm going to have Fender's Custom Shop make me a Brent Mason Tele, in sunburst, with binding. Without the B Bender. It's just the best combination of useable, yet different pickup combinations I've heard on any guitar. I guess I'd need a Strat style trem & an ebony fingerboard while I'm at it.

 

I'd have to put a Warmoth fatback 1 7/8" at the nut with super jumbo frets on there and a straight 16 degree radius. I do like the maple on a Tele, I'd go for a one piece quarter sawn.

 

I didn't catch what the 3 pots did but I might just want a switch instead of the 3rd pot, and put it in between the two pots.

 

Last but not least, I'd want a chambered mahogan body, flamed maple top with the belly and arm carve and binding. Plus gold plated parts and a G&L bridge with locking saddles.

 

Might as well go whole hog!!!!

[Larryz]

Well, when I win the Lottery I'm going to have Fender's Custom Shop make me a Brent Mason Tele, in sunburst, with binding. Without the B Bender. It's just the best combination of useable, yet different pickup combinations I've heard on any guitar. I guess I'd need a Strat style trem & an ebony fingerboard while I'm at it.

 

I'd have to put a Warmoth fatback 1 7/8" at the nut with super jumbo frets on there and a straight 16 degree radius. I do like the maple on a Tele, I'd go for a one piece quarter sawn.

 

I didn't catch what the 3 pots did but I might just want a switch instead of the 3rd pot, and put it in between the two pots.

 

Last but not least, I'd want a chambered mahogan body, flamed maple top with the belly and arm carve and binding. Plus gold plated parts and a G&L bridge with locking saddles.

 

Might as well go whole hog!!!!

 

No whammy, no B-bender, one piece Birdseye maple neck, cherry sunburst with belly carve body...

[Scott Fraser]

I didn't catch what the 3 pots did but I might just want a switch instead of the 3rd pot, and put it in between the two pots.

 

The middle pot is volume for the Strat pickup in the middle.

That said, I love the sound of the mini-humbucker so much, maybe the Strat pickup isn't needed & the middle pot could control a piezo bridge.

Yes to a wider, flatter fretboard.

BTW, love the gold hardware, which will look even better against sunburst.

[KuruPrionz]

I didn't catch what the 3 pots did but I might just want a switch instead of the 3rd pot, and put it in between the two pots.

 

The middle pot is volume for the Strat pickup in the middle.

That said, I love the sound of the mini-humbucker so much, maybe the Strat pickup isn't needed & the middle pot could control a piezo bridge.

Yes to a wider, flatter fretboard.

BTW, love the gold hardware, which will look even better against sunburst.

 

Got it. I would probably just adjust the height of the pickups until I got the tones I wanted. Then I don't have to worry about where some of the knobs are set.

I typically like a middle pickup as a subtle influence so down it goes. Leaves more room for picking too. Most of the time I like the neck pickup, my favorite passives are vintage Danelectro lipstick (hums too much) and a TV Jones Filtertron, which is what I would go with. The mini-buckers do sound great too.