Who's the next Art Tatum?

[uhoh7]

I know I know, there will never be another....exactly....but there are some youngish fireballs out there with something of Tatum's playful flavor, his taste in standards, and jaw dropping technical skills of their very own:

 

[video:youtube]

 

Please post your candidates! I have some more...

[Docbop]

Connie Han is a hell of a pianist with lots of influence from McCoy Tyner, Kenny Kirkland, and Chick Corea.

 

[video:youtube]

 

Connie with her trio

[video:youtube]

[HSS]

I don't know if he'll end being another Art Tatum but Jesus Molina has some serious chops, especially for someone so young.

[video:youtube]

[niacin]

You say Tatum I think left hand, and of those above Hiromi at speed settles into broken stride, it's only Eldar who shows Tatum-like technique, and here at least he's playing a transcription, not improvising insane harmonic substitutions at speed, which is not to say he couldn't, but atm none of the above.

 

I forget whether it was Artur Rubenstein or Vladimir Horowitz who said they'd be out of a job if Tatum played classical concerts, but there's your technical benchmark, plus the playfulness mentioned by the OP.

[niacin]

dbl

[niacin]

I got curious and went looking to see what Eldar had done since I heard his early albums. This came up first, you can certainly hear Tatum's influence and I think it has something of his spirit.

 

[video:youtube]

 

and then there's this, more Oscar Peterson than Tatum per se, but I really enjoyed it, technique plus taste plus fun:

 

[video:youtube]

 

Oh wait, here we go:

 

[video:youtube]

 

and he's recorded a classical album: Bach, Brahms and Prokofiev. His Bach gets particularly favourable reviews:

 

[video:youtube]

[Adan]

Interesting thread. When I hear performances like these, I'm impressed and as a player more than a little intimidated, but at the same time can't help but think about how, just maybe, it takes more courage and artistry to play fewer notes. I know . . . it's that same old debate! And lo and behold we have Hiromi as exhibit "B."

 

From a subjective standpoint I know what I enjoy listening to in the jazz realm, and it generally leans more towards Monk than towards this, so from a subjective standpoint I can't say I've ever wondered with curiousity who the next Tatum will be.

 

There's also a sense in which talking about "the next Art Tatum" necessarily elides over the point that there was no one remotely similar that preceded him, at least not in recordings. It's not like talking about who will be the next great Yankee center fielder. Tatum was such an original self-creation back in a day when many musical boundaries were waiting to be broken. That act of originality can't be replicated. Anyone coming on the scene in the past, say, 40 years, has a much more challenging time finding new boundaries to break.

[niacin]

Interesting thread. When I hear performances like these, I'm impressed and as a player more than a little intimidated, but at the same time can't help but think about how, just maybe, it takes more courage and artistry to play fewer notes. I know . . . it's that same old debate! And lo and behold we have Hiromi as exhibit "B."

 

Oh sure, there's only so much of this I could listen to before I'd need a shot of Abdullah Ibrahim or Hank Jones, and totally agree with your other comments, but so long as we're here I think the difference between Hiromi's performance above and Eldar is the difference between impressed and intimidated: for me, watching Eldar, as watching Tatum, is a bridge too far and it tips me over into that combination of scary and thrilling you might feel on a roller coaster, which is fun once in a while but you probably want to get off at some point, lol.

[ProfD]

Tatum was such an original self-creation back in a day when many musical boundaries were waiting to be broken. That act of originality can't be replicated.

Very important distinction to make. There will never be another Tatum.

 

A carbon copy or reasonable facsimile would be received and appreciated up to a point but always compared to or measured by the original.

 

Since Tatum, there have been quite a few gifted and talented pianists who've become institutions unto themselves.

 

Bud Powell made a name for himself distilling Tatum into something more hip.

 

Erroll Garner and Oscar Peterson built careers around playing Tatum-esque.

 

The late Thelonius Monk, Bill Evans, Joe Zawinul, McCoy Tyner and Chick Corea have influenced generations of pianists.

 

IMO, Herbie Hancock and Keith Jarrett are the last living pioneers of Jazz piano who have their own signature voice i.e. originality.

 

Among pianists produced within the past 40-50 years, I have yet to hear one that will influence the next generation of musicians.

 

Musicians like Hiromi, Eldar and Cory Henry are gifted and talented and we can appreciate them in that regard.

 

IMO, originality shows up like a meteor. Everybody knows when it hits and there's consensus once jaws are picked up off the floor. :

[niacin]

Some might add Kenny Kirkland to that list, players I know of my generation cite him as an influence, but yes the pickings are thin.

[16251]

Brad certainly has a place in this discussion. This solo has always taken my breath away.

 

[jazzpiano88]

IMO, Herbie Hancock and Keith Jarrett are the last living pioneers of Jazz piano who have their own signature voice i.e. originality

 

I would add Ahmad Jamal to that list.

[ProfD]

IMO, Herbie Hancock and Keith Jarrett are the last living pioneers of Jazz piano who have their own signature voice i.e. originality

 

I would add Ahmad Jamal to that list.

I would add him to the list too as Ahmad Jamal is my personal favorite among living pianists.

 

Ahmad Jamal is an absolute monster but I don't know that he'll become an institution in the same vein as the aforementioned.

[jazzpiano88]

IMO, Herbie Hancock and Keith Jarrett are the last living pioneers of Jazz piano who have their own signature voice i.e. originality

 

I would add Ahmad Jamal to that list.

I would add him to the list too as Ahmad Jamal is my personal favorite among living pianists.

 

Ahmad Jamal is an absolute monster but I don't know that he'll become an institution in the same vein as the aforementioned.

 

He actually might be an institution in one of our parallel universes.

[Steve Nathan]

I have to admit that I was barely through this thread when I could get the image of Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park out of my head.

[video:youtube]

 

No question there is some off the charts ability here, but imho, music shouldn't leave the listener feeling like they're stuck in the corner of the ring with Mike Tyson beating them senseless.

[Baldwin Funster]

These players are all fantastic technicians. But none of them are writing ain't misbehavin or misty or even unforgettable. Or any tunes that stick. Technique isn't the ultimate goal for me to play or to enjoy others playing. Most of these up and coming art tatum wannabes are too good. To the point of not being good. All speed and too little melodic invention.

[Docbop]

These players are all fantastic technicians. But none of them are writing ain't misbehavin or misty or even unforgettable. Or any tunes that stick. Technique isn't the ultimate goal for me to play or to enjoy others playing. Most of these up and coming art tatum wannabes are too good. To the point of not being good. All speed and too little melodic invention.

 

Art Tatum wasn't know for his song writing either he was know for his virtuosity on piano.

[Steve Nathan]

Art Tatum wasn't know for his song writing either he was know for his virtuosity on piano.

 

My Dad loved Art Tatum, but even as a kid, I didn't understand why. I'd rather hear Shearing any day, and impressive as Eldar was (and he clearly also demonstrated feel and soul), I'd still rather listen to Bobby Timmons play Moanin'.

[yannis D]

Most of the young lions have a tremendous technique that applies to classical music, the old masters did not have. Even the great Kenny Kirkland tried to play some Brahms Ballads but he was not quite there (he plays one in a Sting documentary film...). Jarrett was the only one that hit perfection on both words from the 'elder' generations with Chick Corea not far away from him (allthough he never properly recorder classical stuff).

 

But pianists now are a different breed - beginning from Mehldau: they seem to know how to play Prokofiev 7th sonata or Bach in the RIGHT style (which is even more important than technique itself) and they know their bebop and free style. After all technique is a way to conquer each individual musical style, and these young guys have it all thanks to better education. Mehldau, Eldar, Hiromi but also this french-american guy who plays Bach Goldberg variations on both their original form and then improvises on them on a modern jazz style!

 

IMO this is the normal evolution of music+youtube and all the new means of education/information available to the average music student. Something the old ones didn't even dream of...

 

But this does not take away anything from the old masters. Tatum and Bud Powell and Bobby Timmons are the best of their world and we'll always go back to listen to them no matter how many new renditions of the old blues there are out there.

[jazzpiano88]

I think a big part of why there will never be another Tatum or any of the other Jazz giants is that their artistry was a product of their environment.

Times were simpler, there were fewer distractions, and music was a bigger part of the mix of entertainment.

 

The world has moved beyond that age and it'll never happen again.

[uhoh7]

There's also a sense in which talking about "the next Art Tatum" necessarily elides over the point that there was no one remotely similar that preceded him, at least not in recordings.

 

Without Fats Waller there would never have been a Art Tatum--at least anything like we know him. The style and voicings of Waller are imbued in Tatum's style, far stronger than even Monk in Hiromi.

 

[video:youtube]

 

I think a big part of why there will never be another Tatum or any of the other Jazz giants is that their artistry was a product of their environment.

Times were simpler, there were fewer distractions, and music was a bigger part of the mix of entertainment.

 

The world has moved beyond that age and it'll never happen again.

 

I beg to differ on your conclusion, though obviously "times" are very different. As Mark Twain remarked: 'History doesn't repeat Itself, but it often rhymes" Mr Twain was also a music critic, refering to the man who pushed opera into a new genre: "Wagner"s music is really much better than it sounds". Funny enough, for most people Tatum is and was very hard to listen to, as well. So very many notes....

 

Many muscians remember vividly the first time they heard Tatum. From Charlie Parker, who was directly inspired by Tatum's blistering runs, to Cory Henry, who found his recordings a revelation in his early teens. Apparently Tatum's parents spent a small fortune on his education at a school for the blind which had a fantastic music department, and Tatum credited his understanding of harmony to his piano teacher there, and the rest to Waller.

 

I agree Tatum is a unique figure and stands alone in his time. But, while they may never have his fame, I think there are many players today carrying Tatums' torch, which was, in essense, establishing a reference everyone understood, and then pushing it to levels nobody ever imagined (as we see in the wonderful examples above). Erroll Garner comes to mind. This was how Mozart and Beethoven established themselves in Vienna, basically. But at the moment improvization is not practiced regularly in classical music (except by classical organists), as it was so often "back in the day". It may come back, I hope so--there is a movement advocating it's ressurection gaining credibilty.

 

[video:youtube]

[Outkaster]

These players are all fantastic technicians. But none of them are writing ain't misbehavin or misty or even unforgettable. Or any tunes that stick. Technique isn't the ultimate goal for me to play or to enjoy others playing. Most of these up and coming art tatum wannabes are too good. To the point of not being good. All speed and too little melodic invention.

 

Exactly. Who is going to care in 20 years.

[yamahaahamay]

this french-american guy who plays Bach Goldberg variations on both their original form and then improvises on them on a modern jazz style!

 

I think you're referring to Dan Tepfer

[Reezekeys]

Good technique involves more than "speed." And writing music and performing music are two different things.

 

When we see instrumentalists with a command of their instruments that far exceeds ours, I suppose it's a natural reaction - born out of our ego's defense mechanisms â to dismiss them as facile, technical, or my favorite â lacking in "soul." Unfortunately, imo jazz has done this to itself. Especially with Berklee and youtubes of these barely-out-of-diapers kids that can play Cherokee at 500bpm. An abundance of technical skill is always more relatable to Joe & Jane sixpack than how cleverly one creates an abstract improvised line over a G7#9 chord. It's a double-edged sword â since having any kind of music "career" now involves getting yourself noticed among all the other music-school-monsters posting on youtube. I like to think that killer technique can coexist with depth of feeling and all the other attributes that make great music great. Listen to the notes and the feeling behind them - whether they're speedy or not!

 

The only thing I would get on my soapbox and yell about is the tendency for these young kids to play such older styles of jazz. Imagine if guys like Chick & Herbie, Miles, Trane, etc. felt the same way as they were coming up and stayed in the style of their elders. We celebrate those musicians precisely because they did not do what these young guys are doing â instead, they took from the past and brought us their version of the future.

[yannis D]

this french-american guy who plays Bach Goldberg variations on both their original form and then improvises on them on a modern jazz style!

 

I think you're referring to Dan Tepfer

 

That's right! Super pianist

[Baldwin Funster]

The problem is with many that can play super fast is that they do it for 10 minutes at a time. Ok now I've heard an hours worth of your ideas in 10 minutes. I'm ready to hear something else now. Or maybe silence. Alot of the old guys were guilty of this too.

 

I much prefer medium paced stuff with Interesting ideas expressed with an occasional burst of fast energy at the right time.

[Reezekeys]

I'm not disagreeing, I like a balance of musical elements myself. I don't listen to much of the younger folks' jazz these days since it sounds either too derivative and corny (especially when emulating the pre-bop styles) or chopped-out wank-fests. But I can't dismiss all of it - these are folks finding their way and "feeling their oats." IOW, "kids today"! Some of it is truly impressive and I hesitate to criticize something I could never do - it doesn't seem right. Even in some of these over-the-top-technique videos, there can be some seriously hip elements going on and I try to appreciate those.

 

As I said before, imo chops is what non-musicians relate to the most. Of course there are musicians that use their technique as a crutch because they get that reaction from the general public regardless of what the actual content of the music is. It gets over. Just like guitar players putting a pained expression on their face as they bend a single note over & over, to the cheers and applause of everybody. People and â surprisingly â some musicians, hear with their eyes.

[Steve Nathan]

I am definitely NOT making any sort of "Chops are bad" analogy. I'm saying chops without taste is boring.

Look at great players like Joey and Corey. Their comping is subtle and (sorry Reeze) full of Soul, and their soloing always builds from simple thoughts, with clear ties to the melody and builds outward and upward in increasing complexity, but there's always a thread audible back to the beginning.

I used to have a sig on my posts that said "music is part math and part magic, and I prefer to lean to the magic side". Some of these wunderkind players just lean to far to the math for my listening pleasure.

[ProfD]

Music discussions among musicians tend to veer off into the debate/merit of technical ability and/or feel and the lack thereof.

 

Having spent a reasonable amount of time playing an instrument, musicians know the difference because what they see and hear "speaks" to them on a certain level.

 

I'm still waiting to see and/or hear an otherwordly talent like Tatum but I won't hold my breath or lose any sleep over it.

[Reezekeys]

I am definitely NOT making any sort of "Chops are bad" analogy. I'm saying chops without taste is boring.

 

Steve, I would never accuse you of making that analogy - but I have seen it made by a few others in these parts!

 

I used to have a sig on my posts that said "music is part math and part magic, and I prefer to lean to the magic side". Some of these wunderkind players just lean to far to the math for my listening pleasure.

 

Given a choice of course I would be leaning with you. I can be accused of being curious as to how much math one can sneak in while keeping the magic!

 

Maybe the issue here is more stylistic, and genre-based. A lot of jazz can be very demanding on a listener and if one is not invested in learning about or appreciating a style, they can get the wrong idea or just form what may be a slightly less-than-informed opinions. Case in point â Mike Brecker's last record, "Pilgrimage." It's a herculean display of chops (as you might expect given the musicians involved - the heaviest hitters of the jazz world), but along witth those chops comes some very advanced writing and jazz soloing that, let's face it, a Grateful Dead or Bob Seger fan might not appreciate. Yet, to me it's some of the most emotional and "soulful" music I've ever heard. Also, 1965-era Coltrane - to me, it's the pinnacle of group playing but not easy listening music! I was in an r&b/funk band years ago and played some of that for the drummer - he looked at me with a blank expression and said it "sounded like elephants"!