Is the Virus still the king of VA/digital synths?

[Bucktunes]

Obviously whether it ever was or not is a matter of opinion, although producers of electronic music seem to hold it in that high regard. I find it impressive that Access hasn"t felt the need to replace the Virus TI2 after over 10 years, and bargains on used ones are few and far between. Obviously many new and impressive synths have come out since then that could be considered comparable/competitive, but it seems that Access is pretty confident that the TI2 still holds its own today.

 

Any Virus owners here still owning and loving it? If not, how much do you want for it?

[ProfD]

Any Virus owners here still owning and loving it? If not, how much do you want for it?

I do not own one but last week, I saw a used Access Virus sitting in a music store in a KB case with a $1,995 sticker price. My 1st thought was, they've got to be f'n kidding. I'm sure that price was negotiable but still...a brand new synth in the box with no fingerprints or dust on it can be bought for less.

[timwat]

This article from 2017 suggests there are underlying reasons that TI2 hasn't been updated in 11 years. Not so much because Access didn't feel the need, but rather the underlying DSP technology the Virus was built on aged out, and any continuation would have required a wholesale code migration. Specifically, the article suggests the Motorola 56000 series chips went end-of-life-cycle, and that it was known for some time this was going to be a road block to continuation of the Virus.

 

Don't know how accurate this analysis is, and probably another member here knows the full inside story, but at first blush this conjecture sounds plausible to my uninformed ears.

 

Tim

[Irena]

I'm a longtime owner of a KC and still a fan. No doubt some of the options available today can outperform the Virus in many ways given its dated architecture, but its depth continues to handily outstrip my own imagination for sound design.

 

Even today the Virus usually gives me a better result than my VST's. Moreso than the guts, I suspect a lot of it for me is the control surface design--it's the best tactile synth I've ever worked with. And that glorious keybed...the Fatar TP/8S action is seldom used in synths (as far as I know the Moog One is the only other TP/8S synth currently in production), but most people who know that keybed prefer it, and the AT implementation is just right.

 

I too have been curious why we haven't seen an update since the TI2. The point about Kemper having wrung every last bit of sonic goodness out of the archaic Motorola 56000 chipset seems like it must be at least a partial explanation. I've also read articles and interviews with him suggesting that he's been more passionate about developing his amp modeling technology over the past decade, and that he may redirect his attention to the synth market at some point soon.

 

Would I buy a Virus again today? In fact, I just did. I've been splitting my time between two places and needed a decent polysynth in the second location. I was nearly set on the Hydrasynth, as so many veteran forum members whose opinions I respect are big fans, and a new Hydra can be had for about the same $ as a used KC or first version TI. Poly AT, updated technology, easier DAW integration...there's a long list of reasons for me to step into the current decade with a Hydra. And yet when a mint TI popped up on Reverb a few months ago, I couldn't pass it up.

 

I've been on that TI for about 3 months now, and love it even more than my KC. I'd be embarrassing myself by touting the "new features" my circa 2006 TI has introduced over the KC (golly, USB!), but I am happier than ever with it. The Virus Control VST is nice (though props to Mystery Islands for their Virus HC VST which does many of the things Virus Control does as well or better, and works across the entire range of Virus hardware), the TI's added knobs and LED's are exactly what I never realized the KC was missing, and the user-definable CC templates make it a much more capable controller for my VST's.

 

Don't get me wrong: I am sure I would love a Hydra given its rave reviews and likely many others from the current crop, but I think a used KC or TI still deserves a good look for VA buyers where keybed and build quality are a major consideration.

[Stokely]

I bought my kB (Virus B, keyboard version) used from ebay for 620 bucks. I (stupidly) sold it for about the same price a few years later because I wanted a clonewheel. That thing was the best-built keyboard I've ever owned, with the best action. I only used it for "classic analog" sounds in my band--perhaps not what it is known for--but it sounded incredible. I remember the band whipping their head around when I pulled up some big unison aggressive lead sound, guitarist is like "YEAHHH!!!!"

 

I reckon I have plugins now that sound "better" though of course synths don't all have the same sound and it's pretty useless to compare. Maybe "more hi-fi" would be a better way to describe it. Specifically thinking of u-he's Repro, which I find mind-blowing every time I pull it up to play it. I agree with the post above about the control surface, that's where it shines. I had so much fun live playing with all the controls. I'd purposefully not save all that many patches for different songs because I enjoyed taking one of my dozen or so and tweaking them as the mood hit me, it was as creative as playing the notes.

 

The people behind Access make the Kemper and my impression is that they switched gears to go into that. Now there's some mind-blowing tech.

[uhoh7]

The Virus TI is the most powerful standalone synth ever released. It's at the heart of many a rave to this day. I found a TI 61 (not a TI2) last winter for 1100USD, and it is the most impressive piece of electronics I've ever owned.

 

Why?

Build is incredible, best synth keybed I have ever felt.

 

Interface is classic. You don't have to learn "Roland" or "Yamaha". It's all built around the layout of the original great analog polys like the prophet and the obi.

 

It spans the gamut from serious OBXa emulation, or moog, to a full compliment of wavetables, FM, granular, comb, vocoder, all were gradually updated in a serious of huge firmware upgrades over a decade.

 

It can play with the computer or replace it. It has an excellent interface with Logic, and many other DAWs. But if you combine it with a great MIDI sequencer/Sampler, you don't need a computer at all. I use the 2005 MPC 1000 with JJ OS, which is an unbelievable MIDI sequencer, like the Virus, unequalled in 2020.

 

Yes the latest Polys have tricks the virus does not have and the abiltiy to tweak various aspects which the virus does not. Quantum or Hydrasynth. But they are epically underpowered and missing many fundmentals the Virus has.

 

The TI is 16 part multi-timbral. The Hydrasynth is 1 part. A few new synths can do 4 parts. The older Blofeld does have 16 but runs out of voices pretty fast (but is another example of an older synth still current). The TI's voices are not unlimited, but it has many and the TI2 more.

 

The TI has superb effects on board which can be used with any source. It has some sweet pedal emulations for my Strat, for example. It can act as a sound card.

 

The one thing it can't do is sample.

 

How is it possible there is no competition for the Virus? Only need an acronym to understand: DAW. The DAW simply murdered big multitimbral workhorses like the Virus and the A6, and the feature sets of synths has never been the same.

 

I had been learning polysynthesis on the DM12, which is great....but it's one patch at a time. So I did about 30 hours of research and choose the Virus TI. No regrets. Just the opposite, I like it more all the time.

 

Should it be updated for 2020 by Kemper? USB 3 would be nice, but I don't miss it. Kemper has the whole guitar world by the balls right now with the Kemper profiler, which like the Virus, he has improved dramatically with firmware upgrades. He can't make enough of them. Literally.

 

You might think who would buy a brand new virus? Who would buy a brand new Juno? OK, that's analog. Who would buy a brand new Roland JD-800? These are over 2K for a good one on reverb now. If the Virus TI is at the heart of your outfit, it's nice to know you can replace it. It remains in wide studio use and the 37 key version rules the road for serious electronic music today. It's worth more than the 61 for that reason.

 

The Virus TI is a benchmark. It was a real steal before the pandemic on reverb, but has increased in value since.

 

It is certainly still the greatest VA. It is a great digital synth by any standard, but it's an all-rounder. The latest Waldorfs have some impressive bells and whistles. They are not cheap. The Hydrasynth is great on paper. Poly AT and ribbon. Good price. I never heard a demo I really loved. So I'd say the Virus TI is the gold standard for hardware polys, for many anyway, but there are more percious metals than gold, here and there with special uses.

 

All this opinion stated, to me it's a scandal the Virus remains unequalled as an overall package. No technical reason a 2020 keyboard synth could not do all the virus tricks, add sampling, more subltle control, and a full library of "Genos-like" play along infrastructure. Instead we see alot of rehashing, cost-cutting, and the removal of fundamental features like aftertouch. The DAW and time seems to have wiped out the engineering staffs, and the replacments are not so ambitious.

 

Excepting Expressive E.

[Bucktunes]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I figured the Virus is one of those synths that people tend to treasure when they have it. And if they do need to sell it, it commands a respectable resale price. I"ve played a Virus KC and a TI in music stores and loved the sound of both, but somehow I"ve never gotten around to owning one.

 

I really hope Access returns to developing and producing the Virus, if for no other reason than to drive down the prices of the previous models.

[Mark Schmieder]

Good to hear speculation on why no development has happened (to our knowledge) in 11 years. I almost bought one 13 years ago, but got nervous about long-term support. I still have an on/off opinion of the Virus, but I think the final version of the synth really can be called the king of VA, unless one chooses to throw that title to the Solaris.

[Synthaholic]

Wouldn't the Waldorf Quantum qualify as a VA synth? If so, it seems to be a monster, from this Sound On Sound review.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/waldorf-quantum

[MikeT156]

In my not so humble opinion, comparing the Virus to the Hydrasynth is an insult to the Virus. The Hydrasynth is harsh to my ears, there are a lot better sounding and better values than that synth.

 

However, you know what they say about opinions.

 

 

Mike T.

[Bucktunes]

Wouldn't the Waldorf Quantum qualify as a VA synth? If so, it seems to be a monster, from this Sound On Sound review.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/waldorf-quantum

 

I would think Waldorf"s Kyra is more likely a direct competition for the Virus, based on voice count, multitimbrality, etc. It"s only available as a table top module though, so it doesn"t seem to be going for Access" throat. Also, Waldorf took a while to release it, and I haven"t heard too much fanfare about it...

[Bucktunes]

In my not so humble opinion, comparing the Virus to the Hydrasynth is an insult to the Virus. The Hydrasynth is harsh to my ears, there are a lot better sounding and better values than that synth.

 

I don"t believe that the Hydrasynth really compares to the Virus, certainly not in sound or functions. The Hydrasynth is more of a different, boutique kind of synth with its ribbon and poly AT. It would be a cool controller for VST synths that can respond to those controls. Obviously the sound of the Hydrasynth is something you either like or not, but it definitely doesn"t sound like a Virus.

[Synthaholic]

Wouldn't the Waldorf Quantum qualify as a VA synth? If so, it seems to be a monster, from this Sound On Sound review.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/waldorf-quantum

 

I would think Waldorf"s Kyra is more likely a direct competition for the Virus, based on voice count, multitimbrality, etc. It"s only available as a table top module though, so it doesn"t seem to be going for Access" throat. Also, Waldorf took a while to release it, and I haven"t heard too much fanfare about it...

 

 

I wasn't really comparing it to the Virus as much as trying to answer the thread title. If the Quantum is indeed a VA synth I would imagine that it is far more advanced than a 10 year old VA synth, no matter how good it was for it's time. But I've never played either of them, so . . .

[Michael W]

I still have my Virus TI Polar. Many synths have come and gone from my place over the years, but the TI has stayed.

 

Why?

 

1. It sounds great, and is much more flexible than many of the TI-based dance tracks over the years would imply.

 

2. The TI is 16-part multi-timbral, with a complete set of multi-effects for each part. Patches sound identical whether in single or multi mode.

 

What sucks? The keyboard on the Polar. The keybed in the Keyboard version of the TI is perhaps the best I've ever played (but I only played one once).

 

[RABid]

I have now sold both of mine. Still a great synth, but the lack of development scared me. They seem totally abandoned. If Roland, Yamaha or Korg released a synth with the same specs today it would be a hit. I mean, gezzz, the unit has great polyphony, good sound, and is hard to beat as a VA. But it pisses me off that they have given it up in favor of spending 100 percent of their time on the guitar amp.

[ProfD]

Any Virus owners here still owning and loving it? If not, how much do you want for it?

I do not own one but last week, I saw a used Access Virus sitting in a music store in a KB case with a $1,995 sticker price.

Just in case anybody is interested in a used Access Virus TI2, there is still one available locally. The price has dropped. Shoot me a PM for details.

[RABid]

....

Don't know how accurate this analysis is, and probably another member here knows the full inside story, but at first blush this conjecture sounds plausible to my uninformed ears.

 

Tim

 

I think the bigger reason is they changed their focus to the guitar amp and found a much larger market.

[Doerfler]

Just in case anybody is interested in a used Access Virus TI2, there is still one available locally. The price has dropped. Shoot me a PM for details.

 

I saw that one. Good price for sure, if anyone would be interested. So many choices these days.

[uhoh7]

I have now sold both of mine. Still a great synth, but the lack of development scared me. They seem totally abandoned. If Roland, Yamaha or Korg released a synth with the same specs today it would be a hit. I mean, gezzz, the unit has great polyphony, good sound, and is hard to beat as a VA. But it pisses me off that they have given it up in favor of spending 100 percent of their time on the guitar amp.

 

This is a common view, and there is a youtube video with the bermuda triangle vibe all about it LOL. These days any good new synth has many videos made about it, and cameras made a huge jump around 2012-2015, which has made all these incredible YT videos possible. But of course back in 2007, not so much. So the videos about the MPC1000 (A virus level piece of gear still unsurpasssed in some respects) and the TI are pretty yucky. A bunch of them are just screen recordings of the DAW interface (which is not bad).

 

What upgrades would I wish for? I don't even have the 2! I did my homework and decided the first version should be fine for me. The biggest single deal, which has not been a problem, but still.....USB 1.1. Now Yamaha is still selling the MOXF brand new with USB 1.1.

 

The thing is my Virus is not normally even connected to a DAW. The only thing you need a DAW for on the virus, that I have found, is if you want to make new elaborate sequencer patterns, or make fancy controller presets with sysex. Every other setting is on the board. Check me here, if somebody can add some.

 

This synth is still in production! It's abandoned like the Yamaha U1 upright The firmware upgrades it went through were massive, and I guess that is happening with the Kemper now. This is not a huge company. It does not want to be. He cannot keep up with demand for the profiler. It's not near as expensive as the TI was back in 2005. He likes to keep the scale where he can manage it.

 

So I don't care if he is not upgrading it. I'm more scared by upgrades than something that really works. However, I know guys making a living in the studio pretty much have to keep up with the latest, becasue clients are asking about it, or it really is helping them work faster. That's way more of an issue "in the box". The hydrasynth, as a 1 part digital synth, is a huge downgrade in that respect. I like the Poly AT and the ribbon though. It's powerful on that single part, for sure. But it doesn't seem like a VA at all to me. It's a modern digital synth......now I'd also but the Blofeld in that case, speaking of long lived landmarks. The Blofeld is higher on my own "to buy list" than the Hydrasynth. Besides multipart and some unique aspects, it has a huge community where you can find all manner of inspiration. It also has that same keyboard as the TI polar, fatar TP9/S, which is quite good I think, but not the long limbed luxury of the TI 61's TP/8S, which remains rare, I don't know why.

[ProfD]

Just in case anybody is interested in a used Access Virus TI2, there is still one available locally. The price has dropped. Shoot me a PM for details.

 

I saw that one. Good price for sure, if anyone would be interested. So many choices these days.

 

If the Virus TI had a sampling option, I would have bought it.

[Stokely]

I picked up a Novation Summit via a good deal at Sweetwater. I'd heard it described as a "hi-fi Virus" and I think that is a pretty good description. I gigged with a Virus B for a while. I'm sure there are down-deep things one can do that the other can't, but as far as I can tell so far, I can make the same types of sounds as I could on my Virus, just with some added clarity.

 

So I'd vote Summit as a contender (granted, it's part analog so not truly VA. The filters and overdrive are analog.)

 

The build quality on both is great, though the Virus has the best keybed of anything I've ever played.

[Nathanael_I]

I've never owned a Virus. I do presently own the John Bowen Solaris which is arguably a more capable synth, perhaps the most capable VA. It is also currently in production, fully supported with updates and also has a TP-8S keybed.

 

For those interested in this action, it is also in several other premium synths: Schmidt 8-voice, Non-Linear Labs C15, Waldorf Quantum, Moog One. This keybed is part of what I want in a hardware synth. It is still not as velocity expressive as my Nord Grand, but it is the best non-weighted action I've played and not narrow like the Yamaha action.

[uhoh7]

I've never owned a Virus. I do presently own the John Bowen Solaris which is arguably a more capable synth, perhaps the most capable VA. It is also currently in production, fully supported with updates and also has a TP-8S keybed.

 

For those interested in this action, it is also in several other premium synths: Schmidt 8-voice, Non-Linear Labs C15, Waldorf Quantum, Moog One. This keybed is part of what I want in a hardware synth. It is still not as velocity expressive as my Nord Grand, but it is the best non-weighted action I've played and not narrow like the Yamaha action.

 

Thank You for mentioning this synth....for me it's a discovery, as was the virus. It looks fantastic, and while not cheap, it's about what the Virus cost back in the day. He seems to working on a tabletop version also. Now I'm off to search the tube to see it in action

 

[video:youtube]

 

Here is the man himself talking about the design, and the rest of these are on the same channel

[video:youtube]

 

The Solaris Specs

 

So it's 10 note polyphonic, is that per channel? I'm not yet clear on the multitimbrality.....wait: "With the release of v2.0 operating system, the Solaris has a 4-part Multitimbral Mode. Key splits can be done over the entire MIDI note range, and also include velocity switching if desired. Each part is fully independent, include the arpeggiators and event sequencers." The sequencer and arp look great.

 

I hate it when people say "It sounds like a such and such synth", which is a crime with the incredibly versatile virus, but the solaris does have an uncanny virus-like ring in the few demos I've seen. It looks like it has a number of tricks the virus does not, I'd imagine the reverse is true also. For one thing it looks like the Virus has way more polyphony and of course it's 16-part multitimbral.

 

While the virus does not sample or directly import samples, many of it's features can be applied to an incoming sampled stream (which you can be playing with the keybed). Many studios use it just for the effects which are so rich and tweakable, and the filters have a bunch of modes which can work on anything coming in. In the late firmware updates Kemper added four or five guitar "stomp boxes" to distortion options. The virus TI is a great guitar amp. A good MIDI foot controller like the FCB1010 gives you realtime stomping power the equal of many of those crazy foot boards you see.

[RABid]

Where the Virus TI2 is falling behind is sound quality. It has always been a bit digital sounding though the updated Moog filter helped. But other companies have passed it up on audio quality, i.e. the organic sound of oscillators and filters. So it is a choice, more polyphony and channels on the Virus, or a bit better sound from some of the competition.

[ProfD]

Where the Virus TI2 is falling behind is sound quality. It has always been a bit digital sounding though the updated Moog filter helped. But other companies have passed it up on audio quality, i.e. the organic sound of oscillators and filters. So it is a choice, more polyphony and channels on the Virus, or a bit better sound from some of the competition.

IMO, a musical sound source never really falls behind, it's just a matter of it landing in the right hands.

[Al Coda]

 

So it's 10 note polyphonic, is that per channel?

 

10 voices max.

Different configurations for 4-part multitimbrality,- like p.ex. 4-4-2, 4-2-2-2 etc..

AFAIK it depends on how the voices are assigned to the SHARC DSPs.

Each DSP handles 2 voices.

It´s not that flexible as other synths are.

 

But for enthusiasts it´s a killer synth nonetheless.

 

 

A.C.

[Nathanael_I]

The multi-timbrality was a big deal to many Solaris owners. It wasn't to me. Most hardware analog synths are not multi-timbral, and 10 voices of polyphony is great for pretty much any playing. Use it with a DAW and it is no concern at all. Just render it as audio and keep moving. It isn't a Kronos, so no one is playing piano on it. I suppose with 4 OSC per voice, one could have a Minimoog bass and still have room for a 9 voice something else or a 1 voice 4 OSC lead + 8 note pad. There's still plenty of useful things. My OB-6 is only 6 voice polyphonic and I enjoy it greatly.

 

The big deal about the Solaris is: 1) It sounds amazing 2) the modulation matrix and 3) its got everything. It's essentially a 10 voice polyphonic semi-modular synthesizer. The facilities are deep: 4 OSC, 4 Rotors, 4 Mixers, 4 Filters, 4 VCA's, 5 Envelopes, Ring Mod, AM, Looping envelopes, FX, loads of oscillator and filter types.... I'm not even getting it all. The modulation is destination-based, just like a modular synthesizer. Basically any parameter can be modulated by any mod source. This includes the envelope parameters, all filter parameters... It isn't a matrix with limited slots. If a parameter accepts modulation, it can be modulated - every one if you desire. The user community has provided many banks of sounds, and I think the set shipped from the factory is now over 1000 sounds.

 

The architecture is very flexible and once you understand the mixers, it is possible to create many arbitrary synth topologies, replicate classic analog synth architectures, etc. It is many synthesizers in one box.