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suggest a tube overdrive pedal (for Legend clonewheel)


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Hi,

IMG-4206.jpg

Got one of these fabulous instruments to enjoy for a while :)

One interesting feature of the Legend is the FX send, to add an insert effect, pre rotary simulation.

I was thinking it would be an interesting experiment to plugin an overdrive pedal or effects unit, maybe something with a real tube preamp, to get more control and a different flavour to the drive and distortion.

Any suggestions?

thanks!

hang out with me at woody piano shack
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I replaced my Maxon Tube Screamer years ago with Fulltone OCD, and just upgraded the latter to the Custom Shop Germanium version this week, but I don't think of either of those as being good on keyboards; even B3 organ. And of course neither has a tube inside. The Maxon is far more subtle than the Fulltone in terms of its range, but I find the Fulltone more transparent and articulate, as well as more like an actual amp's drive.

 

If you want a real tube overdrive pedal, I think Fender has one in their sub-series of their new double-wide pedals, so it's worth checking out. I bought the Fender MTG Tube Tremolo pedal a few months ago and it is so amazing that I am selling my Suhr Jack Rabbit tremolo pedal, as I prefer the more 50's-ish vintage sound of the Fender. I haven't tried it on my Hammond XK-1c yet though, so should do that real soon and report back, as now I am back in California from my east coast exile and am thus reunited with my gear.

 

Moog has a pedal that might work well for organ drive. I remember buying it and not finding it an essential ingredient in my arsenal; I did keep the analog delay pedal though. But did I try it on organ? I probably forgot. So dumb! It's so easy for me to forget to test a pedal on the organ vs. testing it just on my Moog, a Dave Smith synth, or a ROMpler or other general-purpose keyboard. I'm so used to depending on the built-in Hammond stuff, and do feel it improved on the XK-1c from even the XK-3. Yet I have also been aware that the overdrive is probably the weakest effect overall on the clonewheels.

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If you have a Neo Vent and can put it in STOP mode it has a great overdrive; also the GSI Burn has a tube overdrive; you could try that as well, putting either into the effects loop in STOP mode. Cabinet simulation on either would need to be turned off to get just the overdrive effect. I tried running my L100P through the Burn (it has a built-in tube) in stop mode as a pre-amp into my Motion sound as an experiment.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

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Thanks, some good food for thought there.

 

Speakeasy! that's a blast from the past!

 

Tube screamer came to mind for me too, and the OCD, and I can always use on my guitars too!

 

One thing we need to keep in mind is that the SEND and RETURN on the Legend is line level, not guitar level. I could even run it into an audio interface and Guitar Rig...

 

I have an old Behringer tube preamp that I will try, but that one never sounded all that great on Rhodes, but might just work in this application.

 

A bit of an outsider, but the Elektron Analog Heat has several analog overdrive circuits, no tube, but designed for synths and drum machines. Pricey tho and I think I'd prefer a good old pedal.

hang out with me at woody piano shack
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Tech 21 Sansamp pedal. They've got quite a range in the Character series.

 

I have a Tri-AC, which offers Fender, Marshall and Mesa tones. It sounds great for recording an active bass direct so it could handle keyboards.

No longer made but they are around. I'd love the Double Drive programmable too, another multi choice pedal.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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Lounsberry Pedals Organ Grinder. Can't get a lot more dedicated than that.

 

Greg Lounsberry is a true hero of pedals for keyboardists that nobody knows about, which IMO is a damn crime. I have a Tall Fat & Wide, which is basically a cureall for any keyboard with low output level.

Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) :D

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Neo Instruments Drive In

 

That´s what I´d try when looking for a new product.

 

But I could use my rackmount Chandler Tube Driver, offering line- and instrument I/Os, too.

 

:)

 

A.C.

 

Got a Neo Drive, and tested it on my Hammond that normally are using a Vent.

Bummer, nothing like the Vent, thin and fizzy sound, it removed all the bass. Might be fine on a guitar which it are made for.h

/Bjørn - old gearjunkie, still with lot of GAS
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Whoah, I didn't know about the Neo Instruments Drive In! That one's worth a look.

 

The Lounsberry stuff sounds good to me in audio demos as well.

 

I had remembered about Speakeasy but had forgotten about Lounsberry. They make quite a few models.

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1,

Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager

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Got a Neo Drive, and tested it on my Hammond that normally are using a Vent.

Bummer, nothing like the Vent, thin and fizzy sound, it removed all the bass. Might be fine on a guitar which it are made for.h

 

That´s disappointing to read !

 

Then Organ Drive and Reussenzehn "Organ & Groove" come into my mind too.

 

:)

 

A.C.

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Tested a dozen preamps and pedals.....from very expensive tube models

to very cheap guitar pedals.

 

I kept the Lounsberry Organ Grinder !

 

("funny" sidenote: the ultra cheap Behringer Mic100 preamp hold up very well....)

Studio: Hammond XK5-XLK5,  Roland Fantom 8, Kurzweil PC3A6, Prophet 5, Moog Sub37, Neo Vent, HX3-Expander, LB Organ Grinder

Live: Yamaha CP88, Yamaha Motif Rack ES, Hammond SKX Pro, Hammond XB2-HX3,  Kurzweil PC3-61, Leslie 251, Roland SA1000, Neo Vent2

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Ibanez has a version of the tube screamer that uses Korg's nutube, has anyone tried that?

 

Some interesting tube screamer comparisons here, but always from a guitarist's perspective... seems like the nutube may have an advantage when driving it with hotter signals, which could be a benefit for keyboards...

 

https://happybluesman.com/which-tube-screamer-should-you-buy/

 

https://legendarytones.com/ibanez-nutube-tube-screamer-vs-original-ts-808/

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Yep I"ve tried the Nu Tube. It"s cool. Nicer guitar top end but I didn"t think it was worth the price difference at the time. For keys the Lounsberry stuff is nice.

 

Good point about keyboard levels. The Nu tube may help. I don"t know . Dirt pedals are the one pedal that is difficult to cross over to keys. It"s same problems trying to find a dirt pedal for pedal steel. The steel pickups are so hot the dirt circuits sag and totally fart out sometimes. To the point of being useless.

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The steel pickups are so hot the dirt circuits sag and totally fart out sometimes.

One of the things I have to do as an engineer is to write technical documentation of how things work. This quote does not contain a single technical term, yet describes the observation perfectly. Well done!

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Just in terms of background on price, you can regularly find used mono Tall and Fat pedals on Reverb in the $100-125 range and there is an open-box stereo Tall, Fat and Wide on there now for $250. I've had a good experience with those pedals, and Greg Lounsberry will often answer your questions direct if you get in touch.

Numa X Piano 73 | Yamaha CP4 | Mojo 61 | Motion Sound KP-612s | Hammond M3

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Tested a dozen preamps and pedals.....from very expensive tube models

to very cheap guitar pedals.

 

I kept the Lounsberry Organ Grinder !

 

("funny" sidenote: the ultra cheap Behringer Mic100 preamp hold up very well....)

 

i will definitely pull out my old mic100 then! good to hear that, lots of great recommendations here thanks.

I must add that there is nothing to complain about the legends overdrive sim, there are tube and solid state models, it's just I was looking for something interesting to use when demonstrating the fx loop, since I've never had a keyboard with that feature before :)

hang out with me at woody piano shack
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i will definitely pull out my old mic100 then! good to hear that, lots of great recommendations here thanks.

 

IIRC, Sammy used it too when I´ve seen him for several times w/ Walter Trout and using a Hammond clone (XK-1 I think ...) together w/ some (rented ?) Leslie.

 

I must add that there is nothing to complain about the legends overdrive sim, there are tube and solid state models, ...

 

That´s an interesting statement !

 

... it's just I was looking for something interesting to use when demonstrating the fx loop, since I've never had a keyboard with that feature before :)

 

Yeah, that feature is a good one which (possibly only) Viscount offers ...

 

:)

 

A.C.

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So is the Tall and Fat pedal a better option than a full Vent setup? I never got around to buying a Vent; originally I was waiting for the hinted-at rack unit to be released.

 

I plan to set up my guitar pedal board eventually (I bought it years ago!), at which point I need separate pedals for keys and bass anyway, but they usually do better on different pedals than guitar does.

 

Good to hear about pedal steel being something that works better with full-range pedals as well; I should have expected that, as the same holds true of which amplifiers are best for pedal steel.

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1,

Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager

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One option not yet mentioned is the BK Butler Tube Driver (or Real Tube, etc., there are various names out there)

 

Apparently Mr. Butler first designed these for his organ (the one with a keyboard I mean), not guitar.

 

https://www.in2guitar.com/driver.html

 

(PS - I've wasted a lot of time with my pile of guitar effects, trying to do this for organ and electric piano - one key many things lack is the cabinet simulator - some guitar pedals will give you nice distortion, but assume the utlra high fizzy distortion will be dampened by the guitar speaker/cab - and when it is not (such as a keyboard amp with a high frequency horn), it can sound super nasty).

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They sure make a lot of pedals at Lounsberry! As for the Tall and Wide, the stereo version also now supports insertion after the Leslie simulator:

 

https://www.lounsberrypedals.com/product/tall-fat-wide/

 

No audio demos at their site, but I'm sure they're easy to find at YouTube.

 

https://www.lounsberrypedals.com/product/organ-grinder/

 

Of course there's also the Organ Grinder designed by Roger Powell of Utopia and Meat Loaf fame (as well as Apple :-)).

 

There are also Fish Paper editions of most of their pedals, using point-to-point hand wiring.

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1,

Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager

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I must add that there is nothing to complain about the legends overdrive sim

The overdrive was my main disappointment with the Legend EXP module.

 

So is the Tall and Fat pedal a better option than a full Vent setup?

They don't really overlap. T&F emulates the AO28 tube preamp in a Hammond organ; Vent emulates the tube amp (and rotary effect and speaker/cabinet coloration) of a Leslie. In terms of signal chain, clonewheel-->T&F-->Vent would be the most authentic processing signal path.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I love these rabbit hole threads. The selection of effects pedals is larger in todays market than ever before.

Right. Of course, effects pedals were initially aimed at those other musicians with the stringed instruments that only produce one sound. :laugh:

 

Rather than jump down the rabbit hole and end up with a pedalboard full of crap, I just bought a mulitieffects pedal capable of chaining 7 effects internally. :D:cool:

PD

 

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Thanks for clarifying, Scott.

 

I may order one of the Lounsderry pedals soon. Just trying to decide which one! Not a simple choice, which is why I think I hesitated a year or two ago when the other thread was current.

 

The Vent does support stereo input, but I don't recall whether the XK-1c's (and XK-5's, if I upgrade) Chorus circuit throws it into stereo at that point in the signal path (I don't think it does).

 

I see that Roger Powell's Organ Grinder is Germanium based, whereas the Tall & Fat is FET based. I rarely ever like anything that is FET-based; at least as well as other options. I'll try to find audio demos though.

 

Nigel seems to have a lot in common with the Germanium/OpAmp hybrid editions of Fulltone's O.C.D.

 

I might consider the bass-oriented Rupert edition that is modeled after John Wetton's tone from his King Crimson days, but I tend to use the bass edition of EHX's Big Muff as my only fuzz/OD/distortion on bass anymore (and occasionally Aguilar's filter pedal, which is a different sort of thing).

 

Here's Jim's demo from 2016 of the Organ Grinder with a Vent in sequence:

 

 

And here's Jim's 2018 demo of the stereo version of Tall & Wide:

 

 

Lots more where those came from, as well.

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1,

Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager

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