Lightweight stage piano - RD88, MODX8 or SP6/PC4

[dickiefunk]

Hi,

 

I'm looking to upgrade my old Roland RD300gx stage piano. My second keyboard is the Yamaha YC61 which I'm really liking a lot! The RD has been a great workhorse for many years and has done literally thousands of gigs. I find the piano and key action to be pretty playable and some of the additional sounds are quite good. However, I would like something that is a step up in sound and keybed whilst weighing less. I've been having a good look around and the three options that look to tick the boxes are :-

 

Roland: RD88

Yamaha: MODX8

Kurzweil: SP6 or PC4

 

They all obviously have different features that have different strengths and weaknesses. The most important aspects to me are the sound quality and feel of the keybed. I would like a well rounded collection of sounds. The most common sounds I use are :-

 

Acoustic Piano, Rhodes, Wurlitzer, Clavinet, Synth Pads, Strings and Brass.

 

I notice some of these keyboards have built in audio interfaces which is a nice bonus as I have IK's B3X and the Ravenscroft piano apps.

 

Ideally I'd like the stage piano to be as compact as possible. Also, the RD88 has built in speakers which could remove the need for carrying an amp to small rehearsals!? That would be a very welcome feature!!

 

Obviously, at the moment it is not possible to go to a shop to play these and I don't know of any UK store that carries all of these in stock to try anyway!?

 

I would very much appreciate any thoughts from anyone who has tried these please to possibly narrow my decision down.

Thanks

[ElmerJFudd]

These light weight solutions aren"t going to be a jump as far as actions go. For not having to bring a computer - I"d lean heavily toward the MODX8 or PC4. It"s hard to find a PC4 to play on without ordering it. But I have played the MODX8 and the GHS action in it, while in a tier of Yamaha"s cheaper actions - is well matched to the piano sounds. I found it comfortable to play, nice control of dynamics and you can get notes out close to the fall board.

 

Since you already use Ravenscroft, there must be a PC in you"re setup. Are you using a Mac laptop? If I recall they did some integration with MainStage where you get visual feedback from the software on the RD88 screen. If you"re a VST guy, this is worth a look. It"s also Roland"s cheaper versions of their digital piano actions. But you held on to your RD300gx. So you must find it playable. They also have included it in their new scheme for being able to upload née sounds to it from the internet.

[johnchop]

That MODX8 is a beefy boy.

 

I imagine the RD88 would slot in nicely give your Roland experience. I don't think those speakers are all that loud, are they?

 

Fortunately there are PC4 owners on here that can comment on the action. Sonically it has a LOT more going on than the other options.

[johnchop]

I'll just add that my own experience with the Kurzweil sound palette is that it's more subdued than Yamaha and Roland's offerings. Rolands I always found brash, Yamaha detailed and clean. Kurzweil's sound always landed more warm and fuzzy on my ears and didn't require much taming out of the box. To each their own, certainly.

[Coker]

I have owned MODX8 and SP6, and I bought and returned an RD88. I bought all of these initially so I could have a good all-in-one keyboard, without having to set up a second nonweighted one like your YC61. In particular, I wanted good AP, Rhodes, strings, synths, and B3. I did not want to carry around a 50 pound ark.

 

I owned the SP6 for about 10 months. I found the sounds to be great, the internal sound and patch structure to be logical and understandable, and organ to be fairly usable as a layering sound. As I have reported on this forum, I had a problem with the acoustic pianos, in that there didn"t seem to be enough dynamic range for the way I play. In particular, APs seemed to get overwhelmed and harsh when I played a fistful of notes hard. Otherwise, the action was quite playable for synths and organs, even though it was weighted. The screen is small but usable.

 

I have owned the MODX8 for about a year. The sounds are spectacular, and internal sound and patch structure, while completely different from the SP6, is logical and understandable. And deep! I am still discovering things about it I didn"t know about, and have concluded that if you want to do something, there is a way to do it on this board. The organs are fairly usable for layering and modest solo line work, although the Leslie effect is not as good as the SP6 (which is not as good as the B-3X, for example). The acoustic pianos sound great to me, and I am comfortable with the action for that purpose, although it is not as good as my CP4. I get a very useful dynamic range for APs at the high velocity end with the MODX action, but can have trouble playing the very softest notes because of the action. The action is not as good at playing organ and synth sounds as the SP6 was. The interface - screen and knobs,buttons,sliders - are very usable, and Yamaha has done a good job assigning appropriate functions to screens vs physical controls. People have commented about the 'clunky, noisy' keybed, but I haven"t noticed it with headphones or PA speakers on. I"m sure I would notice it if the sound was off, but, really, who plays that way?

 

I bought the RD88 in hopes that its organs would be good enough to make this my lightweight all-in-one. Not even close. The action was OK, but not an improvement on the MODX I already owned, and I found the sounds to be not as good as the MODX. Selecting songs and editing was difficult. Speakers were not very loud or full. Back it went.

 

Ultimately, I use the CP4 with iPad running B-3X for jazz gigs and for recording AP, bass, Rhodes, and MODX8 for all other gigs and recordings. Because you already have the YC61, Have you considered getting a used CP4 as your weighted board? I hope this helps.

[dickiefunk]

I don't have a laptop but have a desktop PC in the studio. For acoustic piano I mainly use Embertones Walker Concert D library which is lovely. I also own 10 other large piano sample libraries and Pianoteq 7 professional so am pretty spoiled in the studio!

 

One thing I've noticed with some of the more recent Roland acoustic piano and rhodes sounds etc is they sound a little synthetic, harsh and lifeless? They also have quite a boxy mid range. I haven't tried the new RD88 though so hoping this may be better? I did manage to get to try the MODX8 around 18 months ago and remember liking it quite a bit. Are the piano sounds in the MODX exactly the same as the Montage? Do the piano sounds have real sympathetic resonance and controllable hammer and pedal sound etc? The actual tone of the piano in the YC61 is pretty good but lacks proper synthetic string resonance etc.Is the piano sound in the MODX 8 exactly the same as the YC?

The Rhodes in the YC is way better than the Rhodes in any other keyboard I've played. Also, many of the other voices in the YC are a clear improvement over my old RD300.

[dickiefunk]

Ultimately, I use the CP4 with iPad running B-3X for jazz gigs and for recording AP, bass, Rhodes, and MODX8 for all other gigs and recordings. Because you already have the YC61, Have you considered getting a used CP4 as your weighted board? I hope this helps.

 

Hi the CP4 looks like a good option apart from it's heavier than my current RD300. I would like to get something lighter if possible.

[dickiefunk]

One thing I noticed about the MODX is there is an additional Bosendorfer Imperial sound library you can buy and install on the Yamaha website.

 

https://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/music_production/synthesizers/montage/sound_library.html

 

I've had a quick listen to the demo and it does sound pretty good but could do with hearing it in different styles to get a better idea. I wondering how the Bosendorfer Imperial addon compares to the internal sounds and the Ravenscroft app?

[EscapeRocks]

As someone who currently uses a YC61 over a MODX8, I think it's a killer combination.

 

 

Make sure you have installed the latest firmware on the YC. New pianos.

As far as Bosendorfer for the MODX8, that is the main piano I use. The Imperial Pop Rock is really good in a rock band setting, and cuts thru nicely.

Another reason I enjoy the YC over MODX is I can play sound assigned to one of the parts 9-16 on the MODX from the YC, since every program on the YC can transmit on a unique MIDI channel.

 

All in all it is working very well for me for my needs

 

 

Pay no attention to the extraneous MiniLab. Been doing some Mainstage programming

 

[AnotherScott]

It"s also Roland"s cheaper versions of their digital piano actions.

...though I believe still a step up from the action used in the FA-08 and Juno DS-88.

 

I have owned the MODX8 for about a year. The sounds are spectacular, and internal sound and patch structure, while completely different from the SP6, is logical and understandable. And deep! I am still discovering things about it I didn"t know about, and have concluded that if you want to do something, there is a way to do it on this board. The organs are fairly usable for layering and modest solo line work, although the Leslie effect is not as good as the SP6 (which is not as good as the B-3X, for example)...The action is not as good at playing organ and synth sounds as the SP6 was. The interface - screen and knobs,buttons,sliders - are very usable

If one preferred the leslie and the more organ-synth friendly (but still hammer) action of the Kurz but also the programming depth and full range of knobs/buttons/sliders of the MODX (and then some) and at least something toward its larger screen, the PC4 could fill that bill, while adding a bunch of enhancements of its own (e.g. aftertouch, assignable outs, better MIDI implementation, 9 sliders for drawbars). As an aside, even the SP6 could be deep if one were up for using its editor.

 

 

the three options that look to tick the boxes are :-

 

Roland: RD88

Yamaha: MODX8

Kurzweil: SP6 or PC4

 

They all obviously have different features that have different strengths and weaknesses. The most important aspects to me are the sound quality and feel of the keybed. I would like a well rounded collection of sounds. The most common sounds I use are :-

 

Acoustic Piano, Rhodes, Wurlitzer, Clavinet, Synth Pads, Strings and Brass.

Also worth noting is that the MODX8 and the PC4 have a lot of sample memory (1 GB and 2 GB respectively) into which entirely new sounds can be loaded, including some very nice versions of a number of the sounds you mention from Purgatory Creek with the Kurz sample sets being a little more beefed up than the ones for Yamaha (where more effort was made to keep the sample set size smaller). I don't know if anyone has made alternate grand piano sounds to load into the Kurz, though.

[jeffincltnc]

I'm in this market at the lower end of the price point (RD88 and SP6) for a solo piano gig.

 

I'm currently leaning towards the Kawai ES520 as my first choice which is not on your list.

 

Also will be looking at new Roland FP30x which has the same action as the RD88.

 

I don't think the actions of the MODX or the Kurzweil SP6/PC4 are right for me. Kurzweil now makes another stage piano - MPS110 - which should have better action than the Medelli and weighs in at 38 pounds which is the same as the CP4.

 

I'm a little curious to see a Korg D1 in this price category, 35 lbs and RH3 action.

 

I think with a focus on action, sound, weight, budget my roads will lead to either a new Kawai ES520 or a great condition used CP4.

[HSS]

I've had the RD300gx ,the SP6, and currently have a Yamaha MX88, which has a similar GHS action to the MODX8. I agree with the previous comments about sounds, interfaces, editing, etc. and would add that the SP6 has a shallow trigger point in KB3 mode that makes it overall a little better for playing organ than the MX88 and RD300gx.

 

Interestingly enough, despite the SP6's action being overall better for organ playing, I specifically found that two-handed fast percussive licks are a little bit easier for me to play on the MX88 compared to the SP6. I'm not sure why; perhaps the MX88's return is faster and/or it's related to my playing style having been a drummer for many years.

 

Overall I slightly prefer my old RD300gx's action over both the SP6's and MX88's, maybe because I was used to it having played it for so many years. Having said this, for my playing style, IMO there is not a significant difference in action between the SP6, MX88, and RD300gx.

 

I would add that the MX88 has a low output level compared to the SP6 and RD300gx (and the rest of my boards). I think the MX88's low output level is an issue common to many Yamaha boards, possibly including the MODX8. I've increased the MX88's output by 6db using its internal 5 band EQ. If it's an issue on the MODX8, it should be easy to correct.

 

I sold the RD300gx for similar reasons to the OP. I sold the SP6 rather than the MX88 mainly because the MX88 has better connectivity (e.g. built-in audio interface, aux in, etc.).

 

I am tentatively planning to upgrade from the MX88 to either a PC4 or MODX once COVID recedes. I also have the RD88 on my radar screen.

[t9cstudio]

I got the PC4 for Christmas as a lightweight replacement for my Stage 3. Highest priority in my selection was weight and the 2nd was a light keybed action. It is 13 lbs lighter than the Nord and the action is very close as well, just a slight bit slower that becomes unnoticeable after a few minutes of playing. Bonus points for having a great organ (KB3) with 9 faders and all the needed stock sounds, including good pop brass. For the price I couldn't have imagined a better lightweight stage piano. Hats off to Kurzweil!

[pawelsz]

Hi,

 

I'm looking to upgrade my old Roland RD300gx stage piano. My second keyboard is the Yamaha YC61 which I'm really liking a lot! The RD has been a great workhorse for many years and has done literally thousands of gigs. I find the piano and key action to be pretty playable and some of the additional sounds are quite good. However, I would like something that is a step up in sound and keybed whilst weighing less. I've been having a good look around and the three options that look to tick the boxes are :-

 

Roland: RD88

Yamaha: MODX8

Kurzweil: SP6 or PC4

 

They all obviously have different features that have different strengths and weaknesses. The most important aspects to me are the sound quality and feel of the keybed. I would like a well rounded collection of sounds. The most common sounds I use are :-

 

Acoustic Piano, Rhodes, Wurlitzer, Clavinet, Synth Pads, Strings and Brass.

 

I notice some of these keyboards have built in audio interfaces which is a nice bonus as I have IK's B3X and the Ravenscroft piano apps.

 

Ideally I'd like the stage piano to be as compact as possible. Also, the RD88 has built in speakers which could remove the need for carrying an amp to small rehearsals!? That would be a very welcome feature!!

 

Obviously, at the moment it is not possible to go to a shop to play these and I don't know of any UK store that carries all of these in stock to try anyway!?

 

I would very much appreciate any thoughts from anyone who has tried these please to possibly narrow my decision down.

Thanks

 

 

Lightweight and good action is hard to combine. Do you need 88 keys? If not, I would consider Grandstage 73 for the sounds you mentioned. You say later you need string resonance, it's there. But no audio interface. 17 kg so similar weight.

[dickiefunk]

I don't need good organ sounds on the piano as the YC-61 covers this and I also have IK's B3X.

[Noah DC]

What was the reason you didn't include on the list the Privia PX-S3000 or S1000? I just played those briefly when I had to go inside the store for a quick minute the other day and I couldn't believe how small and light they got such a good piano action. It seems to have all the extra sounds you mentioned (RP, rhodes, wurlitzer, clavinet, synth, strings, brass). With those Privias, you'd save something like 500-1000 dollars compared to some of the boards you listed like the MODX8.

[ElmerJFudd]

PXS1000/3000 - thin, light. action plays like a toy. terrible for playing 'piano'. ymmv

[dickiefunk]

I hadn"t considered the Casio pianos as the models I played a few years ago were quite a way behind the competition in pretty much every area but particularly sound and keybed!

[bfields]

I hadn"t considered the Casio pianos as the models I played a few years ago were quite a way behind the competition in pretty much every area but particularly sound and keybed!

 

Might be useful to know which models you tried.

 

(I've been happy with sound and action of my PX-560, but all I have to compare it with is the venerable RD-500 it replaced.)

[Noah DC]

My understanding is Jim Alfredson gigged with that white-colored Casio Privia model (never liked the color) - at least as of a few years ago. I would see those newer Privias all over the place at pro gigs back when pro gigs were happening. But yes, as always, your mileage may vary when it comes to the piano action.

[ElmerJFudd]

My understanding is Jim Alfredson gigged with that white-colored Casio Privia model (never liked the color) - at least as of a few years ago. I would see those newer Privias all over the place at pro gigs back when pro gigs were happening. But yes, as always, your mileage may vary when it comes to the piano action.

 

The action in the Casio PX-5S (white) and PX-560 (blue) is nothing like the one in the PXS1000/3000.

I own the 560 and for a lightweight board it does a very nice job at being 'piano-like' to play. That includes feeling of weight and swing in the keys, control of dynamics, and accurately tracking note attacks across the length of the key - even back near the fall board. Granted the PXSx000 is hundreds of dollars less expensive than the 5S and 560.

[marczellm]

Yes the older Casios had a quite enjoyable action. I have no experience with the newer ones.

I am playing a Kurzweil SP6 every two weeks at church. I am enjoying it greatly. If you are willing to dig into the editor (which is unfortunately both insanely complex and terribly buggy), you can create even more realistic organs and craft pads and other sounds to your liking. (The onboard pad sounds are not really useful IMO.) But you can also find sounds online (including sounds for the PC3 that you can load) and that saves you the programming.

If you buy a Kurz, you should contact Dave Weiser (weiserdav at gmail dot com) who is both a Kurz dealer and an excellent synth programmer, in addition to being a helpful friendly guy. He has sent me his live-optimized piano and EP sounds that he offers as a freebie to forum members. I found them better than the stock ones.

[Radagast]

If you want lightweight, there isn"t going to be anything lighter than the upcoming Korg L1 piano.

[Coker]

I think the CP4 weighs the same as the RD300, but the action is much better.

[Fleer]

Got all three (MODX8, RD88, PC4) and only returned the MODX8 (in favor of the Kurz).

Both the RD88 and PC4 are pretty perfect in my book. Lots of sounds and great controllers.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Here's my opinion. Actions aside, which are heavily a personal preference, this is how I think those three keyboards stack up in terms of sounds you need.

 

Acoustic Piano

1. MODX - only because it also has the Motif pianos, and the S6 grand is really good for variety.

2. PC4

3. RD88 - this piano has a rather short decay and metallic tone, as noted by several members who own them

 

Rhodes

1. PC4

2. MODX

3. RD88

 

Wurlitzer

1. MODX

2. PC4

3. RD88

 

Clavinet

1. MODX

2. PC4

3. RD88

 

Synth Pads

1. MODX by far - Yamaha has a huge variety of pads in comparison with Korg, Roland, or Kurzweil. And they're almost all usable.

2. RD88 - going from videos only

3. PC4

 

Strings

1. PC4 by far - even the PC3's strings and orchestral sounds beat my Motif and any Roland I've played

2. MODX - these are perfectly good for most uses. The PC4 just has better ones.

3. RD88

 

Brass

1. MODX - this has the Montage brass, which are an improvement over the Motif brass. I've been really impressed.

2. RD88

3. PC4 - this isn't to say the PC3/PC4 brass is bad, but Roland usually has more options that are overall more usable

 

 

 

For what you need, the MODX is my recommendation, unless you like the PC4's pianos better or use a ton of Rhodes. But if you lean heavily on orchestral sounds and less so on synth pads and brass, the PC4 is your board.

[allan_evett]

I used a gig-provided Casio PX-S3000 for a year and a half. As long as you don't mind pre-programming the Registrations (Casio-speak for Combinations, Multis, etc.) it's quite good. The PX-S3000 has a touch panel interface (big difference from a touchscreen - as found on the MODX), so other than two programmable knobs and a pitch wheel there's no easy way to access sound parameters live. But if you don't need a lot of live controls, it's an attractive option. I liked the sound and playability.

 

I own the MODX 8 and RD-88. For a variety of great piano tones I'd give the MODX a slight edge, but the action is not graded (heavier on the bottom, then getting lighter moving up the keyboard, like an acoustic piano). I can play piano on it and have used it on stage, but it's my main studio controller now. And I also use its synthesizer engines - which are extensive and can get quite deep. The Kurzweil SPs and PCs are similar in that regard.

You'd likely find the RD-88 to be more familiar, considering your history with the RD-300GX. I and other RD-88 owners here have noticed a slightly shortened decay on some of the piano Tones. I've done envelope tweaks to a couple of those sounds, and it helped. But I never found the issue to be a deal breaker. I much prefer the piano envelope attack and playability of the RD vs. the MODX 8. The display is smaller and more limited than the MODX 8, but if you don't do involved synth editing it's fine. And the built-in speakers are a plus.

[dickiefunk]

Here's my opinion. Actions aside, which are heavily a personal preference, this is how I think those three keyboards stack up in terms of sounds you need.

 

Acoustic Piano

1. MODX - only because it also has the Motif pianos, and the S6 grand is really good for variety.

2. PC4

3. RD88 - this piano has a rather short decay and metallic tone, as noted by several members who own them

 

Rhodes

1. PC4

2. MODX

3. RD88

 

Wurlitzer

1. MODX

2. PC4

3. RD88

 

Clavinet

1. MODX

2. PC4

3. RD88

 

Synth Pads

1. MODX by far - Yamaha has a huge variety of pads in comparison with Korg, Roland, or Kurzweil. And they're almost all usable.

2. RD88 - going from videos only

3. PC4

 

Strings

1. PC4 by far - even the PC3's strings and orchestral sounds beat my Motif and any Roland I've played

2. MODX - these are perfectly good for most uses. The PC4 just has better ones.

3. RD88

 

Brass

1. MODX - this has the Montage brass, which are an improvement over the Motif brass. I've been really impressed.

2. RD88

3. PC4 - this isn't to say the PC3/PC4 brass is bad, but Roland usually has more options that are overall more usable

 

 

 

For what you need, the MODX is my recommendation, unless you like the PC4's pianos better or use a ton of Rhodes. But if you lean heavily on orchestral sounds and less so on synth pads and brass, the PC4 is your board.

 

From the audio demos I've heard online I would pretty much agree with your ratings. The only difference I possibly have is with the Rhodes but this is dependent on whether the MODX has the 78Rd that the YC has? I really love the 78Rd Rhodes sample and find it to be pretty much the best Rhodes sound I've heard on any keyboard. Also, the tone and built in fx on the YC can really shape the tone a lot. If the MODX has the same 78Rd sample that the YC does then I would rate the MODX above the PC4.

[Legatoboy]

I prefer the Medali action in the SP6 over the MODX8 (a lot of sideways key motion I thought in the MODX action)...yes, the SP6's action is a bit springy but not to bad.. I played the heck out of the MODX8 over at GC very close to my day gig week after week and I own an SP6 but everyone is different in that regard...I didn't think I would like my SP6 as much as I do to be honest .. I replaced my low end MX88 purchase with the SP6.

[AnotherScott]

Here's my opinion. Actions aside, which are heavily a personal preference, this is how I think those three keyboards stack up in terms of sounds you need.

I agree with most of your rankings, though I've never specifically compared the wurli and clav of MODX to PC4. I'd just add two points... The MODX/PC4 rankings could also change if you add the Purgartory Creek EPs/clavs, which arguably beat any of their stock sounds, and where the PC4 version uses larger sample sets than the MODX version. And I think the real limitation of the PC4 brass is the lack of articulations, e.g. falls.