AnotherScott Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 I have a hard time seeing this as a generational step up from the PC4. It's more a question of repackaging the PC4 feature set in a higher-end physical build with less of an obsessive focus on weight and cost reduction. ...though also a bit of an upgrade (e.g. more memory, audio over USB, trigger pads). PC4-EX maybe? I can't imagine they would drop the price of the PC4 a bit to make room, would they? I doubt it. There was already plenty of "room" between the PC4's $2k and the Forte's $5k. ;-) Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bif_ Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Someone close to me, and to this project, offered the opinion that it really should be called the PC5, as it"s more of an upgrade from the PC4 than anything else. I have a hard time seeing this as a generational step up from the PC4. It's more a question of repackaging the PC4 feature set in a higher-end physical build with less of an obsessive focus on weight and cost reduction............The biggest question for me is ........... if they're going to try to keep it wedged between the PC4 and Forte. I really appreciate Kurzweil as a smaller company trying to compete with much larger companies with way more resources. (In fairness, much of my Kurz love is because of Dave Weiser, a fine human being, but also because I love their product, love playing the Forte, and my previous Kurzweil board, the PC3.) I don't want my comments to come off as dismissive to a product that these guys have invested a lot of time into. That would be unfair. When I compare the PC3 to the Forte, I certainly prefer the Forte in many, many ways, but I'd summarize by saying that there's not $4000 difference between the two. (I sold my PC3 for $900.) I was fortunate that I didn't pay that difference, thereby making my decision to upgrade an easy one. A significant percentage of the PC3 resides in the Forte and a lot of the similarities are wonderful. As I look at the feature set of the K2700, a significant percentage of the PC3/Forte/PC4 resides in it. Yes, a few features have been removed, some GB of samples too. I'm sure the K2700 'package' (price and feature set) was done with much intention to be successful in the market. Simply comparing sample memory and saying "more is better" won't tell the story. As someone mentioned regarding the Hammond Pro, when something does everything, it doesn't do everything well. To win in the market, it must do enough things "well enough" that buyers want it. Regarding where the Forte fits in the product line, try to find one online right now. They don't exist. IMO, that tells the story. Quote Kurzweil Forte, Yamaha Motif ES7, Muse Receptor 2 Pro Max, Neo Ventilator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toescuffe Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 I looked at Sweetwater and found all 3 models of Forte on back order. The 7 says they"ll have it in a couple weeks. The 88 and th SE says extra delivery time. Are you saying they won"t even take orders for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Motif Max Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Extra delivery time seems to usually mean something is being discontinued, but who knows. Quote Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000 Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleer Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 K2761? Dave Weiser, here I come! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 MIDI over USB is always bidirectional. That´s what I thought ... Just based on how it works in the rest of the USB universe, using the kurz as a USB Host would require using the port labeled "storage." Exactly ! I´m just only somewhat irritated because this port is labled "storage" only. It should be labeled "ext.ctrl / storage" ! In fact it´s so much irritating that Jim thinks it really IS for storage only,- and he won´t be the only one. In addition, there´s no explanation in the manuals (quick start or user guide) how to use the K2700 as a MIDI slave together w/ another USB MIDI controller via that port at all and even it´s lited in specs.. If you wanted to use that port to connect a storage device AND another keyboard controller simulataneously, you would need a USB hub to plug both items in... which Kurz may or may not support. Would be nice when they support this but isn´t essential for me. Pluggin´ in a storage device for backups, updates and sample import can be done alternately w/ no ext. MIDI controller required for these tasks,- and when having a laptop connected, that´s a storage device too. And, WHEN using the K2700 together w/ a desktop/ laptop via USB-B and an ext. USB MIDI controller connected to the K2700 in addition,- Global Mode / MIDI Page, chapter 9-22,- doesn´t explain how to differenciate between computer(DAW)- and USB MIDI controller channels. It´s just only the old definition known from PC3,- USB+MIDI+LOCAL in destinations. IMO, the USB "computer" - and "storage"- ports, the latter when used as a connection for an ext. USB MIDI controller, should be listed as different USB-MIDI ports in the global- and multi- page´s MIDI sections to make clear what comes from where. Kurzweil urgently needs to update manuals in that regard. But can also be that advertised feature isn´t fully functional up to now. MIDI was always perfect w/ the Kurzweil keyboards. So, with the new features, I really hope they´ll do it right too. A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Just based on how it works in the rest of the USB universe, using the kurz as a USB Host would require using the port labeled "storage." Exactly ! I´m just only somewhat irritated because this port is labled "storage" only. It should be labeled "ext.ctrl / storage" ! In fact it´s so much irritating that Jim thinks it really IS for storage only,- and he won´t be the only one. Have Kurzweil confirmed that the USB "storage" port can act as a USB host for USB MIDI devices? It's quite common to find a USB port that's suitable for memory sticks, but not suitable for USB MIDI. Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Have Kurzweil confirmed that the USB "storage" port can act as a USB host for USB MIDI devices? It´s all about these few lines: 1.) From Kurzweil K2700 product page/specs: Play and control the K2700 with a USB MIDI controller (USB host functionality) and: A single USB cable allows you to use the K2700 as both a MIDI controller and audio sound source with your DAW. USB Host functionality further allows for connecting USB class compliant devices such as an alternate keyboard controller or external fader/knob unit. USB also provides for storage of custom content and system updates. 2.) Page-12 "Getting Started Guide: USB ports ⢠Play and control the K2700 with a USB MIDI controller This feature requires a USB-A port on the instrument/ device to be controlled via USB MIDI ! The "Storage" port is the only USB-A port I can find on the K2700. It's quite common to find a USB port that's suitable for memory sticks, but not suitable for USB MIDI. Yes but then, the device cannot be played and controlled via any ext. USB MIDI controller keyboard at all. Usually, such devices offer USB-B "to host (computer)", USB-A just only for "storage/ device" and/ or (another) USB-A (w/ host functionality) usable for MIDI controllers ! A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Thanks for confirming Al - that's good news from Kurzweil. It looks like the USB-A ("Storage") port is a host port that can host MIDI controllers and can also host storage. Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipogrito Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Hi, The PC4 can also receive MIDI via the USB type A (rectangular) connector. In short, the thing that you get with the PC4 or K2700 is that if you have another keyboard with USB MIDI, you can connect via MIDI both keyboards with a regular USB cable. The keyboard sending the MIDI will have the cable connected in the type B connector (The square one), and the Keyboard that is receiving the MIDI (PC4 or K2700) will have the cable connected in the type A connector (the rectangular). By the way, MIDI does not flow the other way around. In any case, this is practical in several cases, like when you don't have that 5 pin MIDI cable at hand and you want to connect 2 keyboards. Regards, Fran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 The PC4 can also receive MIDI via the USB type A (rectangular) connector. Cool. By the way, MIDI does not flow the other way around. Now that I think of it, I believe the Montage/MODX work the same way... you can use a USB controller to trigger its sounds through its USB host function, but you can't send MIDI out to the board that is funtioning as a controller. That's different from the typical USB connection to a laptop, where the MIDI data can flow in both directions. In any case, this is practical in several cases, like when you don't have that 5 pin MIDI cable at hand and you want to connect 2 keyboards. or when you have a controller that has USB but no 5 pin connections at all! Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Hi, the PC4 can also receive MIDI via the USB type A (rectangular) connector. dunno,- I don´t own a PC4,- just only a PC361,- which I still love because I made my own programs (and/ or edited existing ones to my liking) the way these will be hard and time consuming to replace or re-construct elsewhere. In short, the thing that you get with the PC4 or K2700 is that if you have another keyboard with USB MIDI, you can connect via MIDI both keyboards with a regular USB cable. The keyboard sending the MIDI will have the cable connected in the type B connector (The square one), and the Keyboard that is receiving the MIDI (PC4 or K2700) will have the cable connected in the type A connector (the rectangular). By the way, MIDI does not flow the other way around. O.k. and thx for confirmation ! But,- that was NOT the original question. See below ... In any case, this is practical in several cases, like when you don't have that 5 pin MIDI cable at hand and you want to connect 2 keyboards. In fact, the question was,- WHEN using the USB connection between p.ex. a KURZ PC361 and a K2700, enabling usage of nearly identical MIDI controller abilities in "Setup" and "Multi" modes WHILE using the "other" (USB-B of K2700) connection to "computer",- does that maintain USB audio functionality (K2700 <|> "computer"/ DAW) and are the 5-pin DIN MIDI I/O connectors still usable as well,- possibly independend from USB MIDI ports ? IMO, w/ all the MIDI features advertised and already partially working great in former products,- it would make sense Kurzweil starts using USB2-MIDI supporting at least 4 ports,- 4x 16 MIDI channels. So, what is it all about when we can use USB-A for an ext. MIDI controller, USB-B to host,- both bi-directional,- and have 5-pin DIN MIDI I/O in addition ? Just only 16 MIDI channels (1 port) across all of these connectors ? Please dive into the software and make K2700 a MIDI controller/ USB host w/ multiple virtual MIDI ports ! It would be great to get 16 MIDI channels I/O over USB-A for "ext. controller(s)",- 32 MIDI channels I/O for USB-B "computer",- and 16 MIDI channels I/O for 5-pin DIN MIDI ! A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 I think it"s fantastic that Kurzweil is releasing a new flagship and I want to see them succeed on every level. I bought a used PC361 from Scott a few years ago and it"s still near the center of my studio rig. There isn"t a track I"ve done that doesn"t feature at least one Kurz patch, if not several. The level of customization and programming is stunning, and the sounds (especially the orchestral sounds) are just amazingly playable and expressive. That being said, unfortunately there isn"t a purchase roadmap for me with the current offering. I just don"t need (and can"t store) another weighted 88-key slab. My Kawai MP11 is my weighted controller of choice and one weighted board is enough for me. A 61-key version of the K2700 might be a good upgrade for my PC361, or a tabletop synth would be a great product for me. I"d still like to see Kurzweil join the soft synth arena, but I think they will stay focused on the furniture business for a while. The reality is, Kurzweil has enough of a following with professionals and live weekend warriors to thrive without me (and those with similar needs). They produce top flight stage instruments and I think that market is more than happy with weighted 88-note boards (or chopped seventy-ish key boards). 61-note boards are obviously still around, but it seems like the chopped boutique instruments (e.g. Korg Wavestate) and the longer stage instruments are where most of the action is right now. P.S. As handsome as the K2700 is, I don"t think anything can match the shock I felt when I first opened the original K2500 brochure. I remember thinking, 'My God, this board is a mini Synclavier with more realtime controls than anyone could imagine (keep in mind this was the menu diving days for most digital instruments).' Quote Sundown Working on: The Jupiter Bluff; Driven Away Main axes: Kawai MP11 and Kurz PC361 DAW Platform: Cubase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleer Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Flagship? Dunno. But it sure cured me from lusting after a PC4-6. I"ll happily get that K2761. Or maybe a K2861. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Flagship? Dunno. But it sure cured me from lusting after a PC4-6. I"ll happily get that K2761. Or maybe a K2861. bet the K2861 will be dope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 https://www.musictech.net/news/gear/kurzweil-namm-2021-k2700/?amp Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niacin Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 https://kurzweil.com/k2700/ manuals are up Quote Gig keys: Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Crumar Mojo 61, Crumar Mojo Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadroj Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 So this is the flagship over the Forte? Even though it has less memory, etc? Quote Hammond SKX Mainstage 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoodyBluesKeys Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Based on Kurzweil's naming and history, not so much a "flagship" as a different line. The Forte's history goes back to the first PC-88 "Performance Controller", whereas the K series was "workstation." Kurzweil's third category (which was the initial beginnings of the Forte) is "Stage Piano," and the fourth is their home series. There is some overlap between categories. For instance, the PC88 design (continued through PC1, PC2, PC3 and derivatives, and PC4) share some VAST features with the K series, there is overlap, but there were certain sections that never were ported over. Exactly why it has less memory is unknown outside Kurzweil, but they likely designed it to have what was considered sufficient for it's segment. Quote Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleer Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 The thing I particularly like is that those 4.5GB of instruments (formerly 16GB in the Forte) should easily fit into the PC4"s user sample memory, albeit one by one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Weiser Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 The thing I particularly like is that those 4.5GB of instruments (formerly 16GB in the Forte) should easily fit into the PC4"s user sample memory, albeit one by one. Sorry to say, Kurz ROM samples cannot be transferred, imported or moved in any way. I'm excited about the K2700, though I wanted to swan dive into a wood-chipper when I saw the unfortunate, confusing name. But that's OK, it's a great product. I think of it as a "PC5". And I mean that as a good thing - it's a nice step up from the already very capable PC4 - some more/bigger samples, better action, ribbon, pads and audio interface built in. I'm usually not a big user of drum pads, but holy sh*t Kurz has gotten some really good results with pads, starting with the PC3LE. The ones on the K27 feel great - I Haven't used them on a K27 itself, but I have used them on past prototypes that I'm not allowed to discuss. I think of the Forte, with its larger sample memory but smaller feature set and preset list, as sitting somewhere in the product line similar to where Yamaha's CP1 would sit, if the CP1 had received an OS upgrade that opened up full sound/FX editing. Quote https://www.theboywhowantedtorock.com http://www.weisersound.com https://www.facebook.com/weisersound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleer Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Good points. Still wondering how the Forte"s 16GB reduced to 4.5GB in the K2700 will sound. And pretty strange that the latter wouldn"t end up in sizable chunks for the PC4, or the Forte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Weiser Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Good points. Still wondering how the Forte"s 16GB reduced to 4.5GB in the K2700 will sound. And pretty strange that the latter wouldn"t end up in sizable chunks for the PC4, or the Forte. I totally hear you man. But in hardware land, bigger vs smaller samples is one thing that separates products like Kronos from the Krome, and the Montage from the MOX. It's a standard thing. Not saying I like it, it's just how it is. You wouldn't need the K27 samples in the Forte, as they are just scaled back versions of Forte samples. Making them available for PC4 would undermine the reasons for wanting to buy a K27. Of course I would love to be able to load bigger versions of the samples into my PC4, but people in Hell want ice water too, as they say. Hopefully, the K27's samples will sound a bit better than PC4, but maybe not quite as snazzy as the Forte's. Looking forward to finding out! Quote https://www.theboywhowantedtorock.com http://www.weisersound.com https://www.facebook.com/weisersound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Hopefully, the K27's samples will sound a bit better than PC4, but maybe not quite as snazzy as the Forte's. Looking forward to finding out! I dunno when K2700 will be released, what the street price will be,- and I won´t be a very early buyer anyway, since I prefer waiting for 1 or 2 updates before I buy something. But when I´ll be in,- I´d buy the complete Purgatory Creek electric piano collection for KURZ and be happy w/ 256 voice polyphony, twice the FX DSP power compared to PC3, Fatar TP40L action (vs medelli in PC4), the build in ribbon and a more compact case,- all (hopefully) cheaper than a FORTE 88. A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volken Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 I think of the Forte, with its larger sample memory but smaller feature set and preset list, as sitting somewhere in the product line similar to where Yamaha's CP1 would sit, if the CP1 had received an OS upgrade that opened up full sound/FX editing. I would truly like such prospect for my CP1, but it is "very old" product considering update hiatus so far. I find intriguing that you chose CP1 as comparison with Forte, as CP1, even when released, was in terms of dedicated piano memory, almost upsetting (128 MBytes) compared to some DP competition. But with SCM, preamp magic, or any other know-how from CP1 development team, I have yet to hear, even today, more engaging and better sounding DP. As said at earlier date on GS, I really like Kurz is releasing new keyboard with more ambition, but not so happy with design values of K2700. Sure, gone are the days of industrial statement like body presence machines. But, even in 2021. I would expect some kind of continuity from, say, PC3K8, or at least Forte. I just can't fully accept K2700 from such standards, unless K27xx of higher (3000?) range presents its promise and glory in full "metal" strength that resides in previous K2 range. This one, speaks economy, too much for my taste. Quote Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffincltnc Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Kurzweil K2700 at Weisersound Dave Wesier has a K2700 page up and said the price for the K2700 is $2999, which is a nice sweet spot. $1,000 more than the PC4 for a flagship build, and $1,000 - $2,000 below the Forte 7/Forte. Quote Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bif_ Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Kurzweil K2700 at Weisersound Dave Wesier has a K2700 page up and said the price for the K2700 is $2999, which is a nice sweet spot. $1,000 more than the PC4 for a flagship build, and $1,000 - $2,000 below the Forte 7/Forte. Strong endorsement for Dave Weiser. Buy it from him! He will support better than anyone! I have benefitted from his assistance, he's the best for support on all things kurzweil and is accessible and responsive. Quote Kurzweil Forte, Yamaha Motif ES7, Muse Receptor 2 Pro Max, Neo Ventilator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonglow Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Strong endorsement for Dave Weiser. Buy it from him! He will support better than anyone! I have benefitted from his assistance, he's the best for support on all things kurzweil and is accessible and responsive. +1000 Customer service second to none. Quote "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Kurzweil K2700 at Weisersound Dave Wesier has a K2700 page up and said the price for the K2700 is $2999, which is a nice sweet spot. $1,000 more than the PC4 for a flagship build, and $1,000 - $2,000 below the Forte 7/Forte. Can´t wait until it´s available in europe. I regret I cannot get Dave´s service and additional soundware when buying here. A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Motif Max Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Kurzweil K2700 at Weisersound Dave Wesier has a K2700 page up and said the price for the K2700 is $2999, which is a nice sweet spot. $1,000 more than the PC4 for a flagship build, and $1,000 - $2,000 below the Forte 7/Forte. Strong endorsement for Dave Weiser. Buy it from him! He will support better than anyone! I have benefitted from his assistance, he's the best for support on all things kurzweil and is accessible and responsive. +1000 Customer service second to none. Bought my PC4 from him a little over a week ago. Quote Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000 Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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