Hammond Teaser ???

[Outkaster]

I'm looking at 13 knobs on the Nord versus 10 sliders and 5 knobs on the Hammond.

 

My Nord Stage 3 has a synth section with 19 knobs (potentiometers) and in addition 15 selector buttons(SKPro has 3). I don"t see how you find the SK Pro synth to have «far more performance controls than a Nord Stage synth»?

 

it will sound better

[Delaware Dave]

The leslie certainly didn't sound like the leslie I heard on the opening videos; I certainly wouldn't put my Vent on the market based on what I heard today. The acoustic pianos didn't wow me; the Wurlitzer was very good. At 7:54 in the video he had 4 voices going at once and when he imparted the leslie switch I thought I heard the leslie going through the synth..... Hope that's not the case.

[Delaware Dave]

I'm looking at 13 knobs on the Nord versus 10 sliders and 5 knobs on the Hammond.

 

My Nord Stage 3 has a synth section with 19 knobs (potentiometers) and in addition 15 selector buttons(SKPro has 3). I don"t see how you find the SK Pro synth to have «far more performance controls than a Nord Stage synth»?

So, knob count wins? Is that the measuring stick? or is the depth of editing the sound a better measuring stick?

[JohnDoe]

The leslie certainly didn't sound like the leslie I heard on the opening videos;

 

That´s my reaction too. Hope Jim A. can straighten out that question in the coming vid´s.

[Zalman Stern]

Jim,

 

Amazing work. It appears Hammond takes having the right people play the instrument, and demo/explain it at introduction, very seriously. All manufacturers should take note.

 

A question: I assume the patches save parameters that are on the physical controls. Hopefully most of them. Is this the case? If so, does the value come from the patch until the physical control is touched? Is there anyway to see the setting in the patch, e.g. the touch screen switches to something showing the patch value when you touch the control. Basically how does the physical control surface interact with the the soft UI and soft parameter saving?

 

Thanks,

-Z-

[Kurt W]

So, knob count wins? Is that the measuring stick? or is the depth of editing the sound a better measuring stick?

 

Did I say that? No, I corrected a misinformation. Cool down.

[Al Coda]

The leslie certainly didn't sound like the leslie I heard on the opening videos; I certainly wouldn't put my Vent on the market based on what I heard today. The acoustic pianos didn't wow me; the Wurlitzer was very good. At 7:54 in the video he had 4 voices going at once and when he imparted the leslie switch I thought I heard the leslie going through the synth..... Hope that's not the case.

 

This keyboard should be go into the GEARLAB forum and been tested in depth.

 

For a giggin´ board, I can live w/ the demoed AP, EP and Clav sounds, especially because there are editing options under the hood.

 

But I´m not sure in which video I hear internal leslie sim or not and I hope we´ll get a good demonstration of the overdrive near future.

 

These more or less clean jazz type Hammond sounds worked always w/ the H/S clones, but what´s up when it comes to the rock department.

Does it compete w/ HX3 engine ?

 

A.C.

[kwyn]

The leslie certainly didn't sound like the leslie I heard on the opening videos

 

That's the first thing I noticed. The Leslie on the other videos got me interested. Very Interested, but yeah, this didn't sound like that. A little disappointed.

[Outkaster]

What's funny about these threads is that we don't even talk about the original instruments they are emulating half as much.

[AnotherScott]

I hope we´ll get a good demonstration of the overdrive near future.

That's where I'm most skeptical. There is reason for a bit of hope since they say it has a "new tube modeling system," but I'm not counting on a good overdriven Leslie. So yeah, if I had one of these, I think it's pretty likely that I'd want to put it through a Vent. But the assignable outs at least make that a much more viable option than on the YC61, VR09/VR730, Numa Compact 2X, Vox Continental, Dexibell Combo J7... so I have to temper any possible disappointment with their OD (or Leslie) with props for actually providing a decent way to address it.

 

One thing I haven't seen yet is any reference to downloadable/updateable sounds. I wonder if they have simply loaded it up with their entire (updated) library, and that may be all it will ever have. (Which is not necessarily a problem, just an interesting departure.)

[ElmerJFudd]

What irks me with Hammond, Nord, Kurzweil and others is that with Yamaha and Roland, you typically break $2k and their better quality actions come into play. $2500+ is a lot of scratch to pay for a Fatar TP-8O which is available on a lot of boards that are much cheaper. I realize that doesn"t factor in DSP, IP, UI and other things. But from a hardware point of view - irksome.

[Delaware Dave]

I hope we´ll get a good demonstration of the overdrive near future.

That's where I'm most skeptical. There is reason for a bit of hope since they say it has a "new tube modeling system," but I'm not counting on a good overdriven Leslie. So yeah, if I had one of these, I think it's pretty likely that I'd want to put it through a Vent. But the assignable outs at least make that a much more viable option than on the YC61, VR09/VR730, Numa Compact 2X, Vox Continental, Dexibell Combo J7... so I have to temper any possible disappointment with their OD (or Leslie) with props for actually providing a decent way to address it.

 

One thing I haven't seen yet is any reference to downloadable/updateable sounds. I wonder if they have simply loaded it up with their entire (updated) library, and that may be all it will ever have. (Which is not necessarily a problem, just an interesting departure.)

I would think that whatever you hear from the XK5 videos, in terms of overdrive, is what you will get with this keyboard; I don't think they 'improved' the overdrive over the XK5; I'm starting to understand that when they say improvements they are referencing this keyboard to the former SK series, but I don't think that from an organ perspective there are any 'improvements' over the XK5 organ; the improvements are moving the XK5 engine into the SK series, so the improved leslie is the XK5 leslie vs. the former SK leslie, that's my take on that. Jim spoke to the virtual contacts of the keybed but when he played staccato type notes or glossed over (lightly touched) notes I didn't really hear the partials; he also avoided showing that. He also didn't mention on the Clav the ability to bring in the filters; so it makes me skeptical of the ability to real time control the filters and the pickups; hope I'm wrong. I re-listened to the acoustic pianos, they're certainly useful but not powerful. I still think the unit is a good value.....

[stoken6]

As a YC owner, I feel like Yamaha definitely got some things very right with the organ, but badly missed on some other aspects, mainly leslie sim (which might be improved) and non-high trigger keyboard (which probably can't?)

If they can't/won't/don't improve the Leslie sim, then at least a Electro-style Organ-L/Other-R dual-mono split of the audio outputs would help.

 

The high-trigger thing *should* be easy to do. A conventional keyboard action has two contacts: the time between the two allows velocity to be measured, and trigger then has to happen after the lower contact is made. If velocity is irrelevant (as it is for organ), then simply trigger from the high contact.

 

It's possible that the contact-trigger logic is buried in firmware, and not updateable, but it's a shame that Yamaha made a decision that is basically software-only: there's no additional hardware required to implement high-trigger organs.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

What irks me with Hammond, Nord, Kurzweil and others is that with Yamaha and Roland, you typically break $2k and their better quality actions come into play. $2500+ is a lot of scratch to pay for a Fatar TP-8O

The problem is that Hammond, Nord, and Kurzweil don't manufacture their own actions, except for the pricier Hammonds (which I assume they manufacture, or are at least having specially manufactured for them). So they're limited by the actions that others will sell to them. I wonder what it would have added to the price (and weight) of this board if they had included the action from the XK5.

[konaboy]

i really enjoyed Jim's demos, amazing presentation, thank you!

 

I think the organ, leslie sound fabulous and pianos sound decent, although when Jim played the steinway it sounded phasey and weird.

 

I don't want or need a monosynth sound engine on my stage keyboard, and all that front panel space taken up with its controls. Two

sets of envelope controls for a kinda thin sounding monosynth, really necessary? Why not make it a polysynth with mono switch, this is not real analog, just modelling, or am I mistaken? If digital, then no reason to limit to mono.

 

Dislike the large backlit screen constantly glaring at me. Nit picking perhaps, but just feels wrong when playing organ or piano. I have too much screen time already during the rest of the day. I appreciate how you can switch off the screen on the YC so it just goes away. Wish more manufacturers would follow this example!

 

What's the build quality like on this? Metal chassis?

[Al Quinn]

Hammond sounds great, APs sound just OK (was hoping they would be better), EPs sound pretty good. Nice preso Jim!

[Jim Alfredson]

I have another video up where I go into a deep dive into the organ section, including tweaking the Leslie. I really don't think a Vent is needed anymore. The digital Leslie in the SK Pro is really, really good.

 

[drawback]

i really enjoyed Jim's demos, amazing presentation, thank you!

 

I think the organ, leslie sound fabulous and pianos sound decent, although when Jim played the steinway it sounded phasey and weird.

 

I don't want or need a monosynth sound engine on my stage keyboard, and all that front panel space taken up with its controls. Two

sets of envelope controls for a kinda thin sounding monosynth, really necessary? Why not make it a polysynth with mono switch, this is not real analog, just modelling, or am I mistaken? If digital, then no reason to limit to mono.

 

Dislike the large backlit screen constantly glaring at me. Nit picking perhaps, but just feels wrong when playing organ or piano. I have too much screen time already during the rest of the day. I appreciate how you can switch off the screen on the YC so it just goes away. Wish more manufacturers would follow this example!

 

What's the build quality like on this? Metal chassis?

 

I've been thinking many of the same points. Even though the brochure hints at updated pianos and allowing for editing, I'm not feelin' the core sounds are "there." I had hoped the strategic alliance with iKMultimedia would allow for SampleTank sounds at least. And put me down for not crazy about Hammond's industrial design in of any SK series from the beginning, with this one the most visually chaotic.

[Jim Alfredson]

There's Leslie, overdrive, 2 reverbs with sends separate for each of the 4 sections. Then there are either 2 multi fx per section or 2 multi fx total with separate sends for each of the 4 sections? Probably the latter but it's not very clear.

 

There are 2 multi-fx and overdrive for each of the four sections.

[Jim Alfredson]

My main questions at the moment...

 

Jim, at 10:38 in your video, you talked about there being space to save 100 user combinations, and also, you thought, 100 individual sounds (e.g. organ drawbar regsistrations, mono synth sounds, your own custom edited piano or ensemble sounds)... Can you confirm that 100? And can you break them up any way you want (like 20 organ sounds, 30 synth sounds, etc., any combination of individual sections sounds that adds up to 100)? This could be a really big advantage compared to some of the other boards. Boards like VR09/VR730, YC61, Vox, only let you save combinations (calling them registrations, live sets, scenes), NOT any individual sounds. If you want to save a tweaked individual sound, it can only be saved as one of those "combinations" -- which makes it nearly impossible to split/layer your own customized sounds.

 

Also, is there a screen that shows you what 10 Favorites are currently assigned to the 10 patch select buttons (which would vary depending on what bank you're in)? Assuming there is, can you leave that up as the default view while you play? Also, is there a mechanism for re-ordering them?

 

Someone already answered the first part. There are 100 organ patch memory spaces, 400 piano / ensemble spaces, 100 monosynth, and 100 combinations.

 

In previous SK's there was a FAVORITES menu where you could program the functionality of the preset buttons. There doesn't seem to be anything like that in the SK Pro. Maybe they'll update that. I'm using OS 1.0.

[AnotherScott]

There are 2 multi-fx and overdrive for each of the four sections.

These 2 multi-fx are completely independent for each section?

 

I really don't think a Vent is needed anymore. The digital Leslie in the SK Pro is really, really good.

But for a prog-rock style hard driven tube-Leslie overdrive?

 

And put me down for not crazy about Hammond's industrial design in of any SK series from the beginning, with this one the most visually chaotic.

I have to say, I think this is a nice step up from the earlier SKs aesthetically. I like the ivory-colored buttons, and all the legends seem easy to read. The SK1 had alot of light gray text on darker gray background that was often nearly impossible to read.

 

In previous SK's there was a FAVORITES menu where you could program the functionality of the preset buttons. There doesn't seem to be anything like that in the SK Pro. Maybe they'll update that. I'm using OS 1.0.

It's in there somewhere (or will be), based on this from the web site:200 Combinations are available (100 Factory and 100 User). Any ten (10) of these may be assigned to the FAVORITES buttons (as seen on previous SK models), for instant access. The role of the Favorites has been expanded to include ten (10) BANKS of Favorites, easily called with a simple key stroke.

 

Scott is going to have to update his spread sheet!

Here ya' go... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Fr9cObRaep37A9Y1PZtRkVWxKKDsXUGPk9ubfhYgoSk/edit?usp=sharing

 

Above I compared it to YC61... the other boards people will clearly be comparing to are the Nords.

 

Sounds aside... I think the Nord Electro advantages are custom sample loading and hands-on effects controls (and being $300 cheaper). Hammond advantages include more simultanous splits/layers (with more flexible split points), MIDI zones, I think more effects flexibility, better display, assignable outs, 10 patch select buttons instead of 4, and pretty much all the synth functions, VA and otherwise (pitch and mod controls, mono mode, portamento, full envelope editing, etc.).

 

Nord Stage 3 still comes out ahead on a decent number of parameters... the custom sample loading and hands-on effects controls like the Electro (but more so), plus aftertouch, 6-sound split/layer (vs 4), more extensive hands-on synth controls, polyphonic VA, morph functions, the ability to route your custom samples through the synth. Hammond still has the edge on MIDI zones (3 vs. 2), more flexible split points, 10 patch select buttons (vs. 5), probably more flexible output routing options, probably more total effects flexibility, better display. And, on the 73, it looks like the Hammond has enough free panel space to hold an iPad. Though the Hammond is $800 cheaper (or $1100 cheaper if you could get by with a 61).

 

But again, this is irrespective of the sounds. And they're kind of important.

[Mighty Motif Max]

So correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that this doesn't have all the Leslie models the SK-1/XK-1c have?

SK1/XK-1c Leslies (copied from the Hammond site):

 

Type 122

Type 147

Type 31H (or "TallBoy"-the first Leslie Speaker released in 1941)

Type 722 (Mid 70's "Home Organ" Model)

Type 760 (Late 70's Solid State "Combo" Model)

Type 825 (1970's Solid State Single Rotor Model)

ROCK TYPE (Early 70's Model 925 High-Power "Combo" Model)

PR-40 (Non-Rotary Vintage Hammond Tone Cabinet)

 

From what I saw in the video, in the SKpro we have these:

 

122 Gentle

122 Wild

31-H

147 Gentle

147 Wild

145 Gentle

145 Wild

PR-40

 

So we are missing:

 

Type 722

Type 760

Type 825

ROCK TYPE (Early 70's Model 925 High-Power "Combo" Model)

 

 

If so, that is disappointing. One of the advantages of the SK boards (and why if I were to get a clone it would still be an SK rather than a Mojo/Legend etc) to me was the large list of leslie types available.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Some more sounds.

 

[video:youtube]

[Mighty Motif Max]

Combination: Factory: 100, User: 100, Bundle: 100, Manual

Organ Patch: Factory: 100, User: 100, Bundle: 100

Piano / Ensemble Patch: Factory: 300, User: 400

Mono Synth Patch: Factory: 100, User: 100, Bundle: 100

Excellent! Thanks!

 

Excellent indeed. Particularly 400 user spaces for non organ/synth patches. Good.

[Jim Alfredson]

So correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that this doesn't have all the Leslie models the SK-1/XK-1c have?

 

They combined the tolex Leslies (700 series, 800 series, etc.) into one. It's in there under "cone" type.

 

----Jim

[Jim Alfredson]

But for a prog-rock style hard driven tube-Leslie overdrive?

 

Yes. The new crossover feature in the overdrive menu allows for fine tuning which in my experience so far can remove some of the unwanted upper frequency nastiness.

[niacin]

The leslie certainly didn't sound like the leslie I heard on the opening videos

 

That's the first thing I noticed. The Leslie on the other videos got me interested. Very Interested, but yeah, this didn't sound like that. A little disappointed.

.

 

I thought that too and just assumed they had it running through one of their Leslies, but videos including teaser #4 which was the first tonewheel organ demo and the one that grabbed my attention are here: https://hammondorganco.com/products/portable-organs/skpro/skpro-details/

and on that page it says: "Recorded direct into an Audio Recorder-No Leslie Cabinets were used". So different Leslie settings, maybe different overdrive, maybe different EQ, who knows, but it's all the internal sim.

[niacin]

I'm looking at 13 knobs on the Nord versus 10 sliders and 5 knobs on the Hammond.

 

My Nord Stage 3 has a synth section with 19 knobs (potentiometers) and in addition 15 selector buttons(SKPro has 3). I don"t see how you find the SK Pro synth to have «far more performance controls than a Nord Stage synth»?

 

Thanks, sorry it wasn't clear, I was just looking at knobs/sliders allowing real time adjustment of the synth wave, i.e. amp envelope, filters, lfo etc, not overall volume, arpeggiator controls etc., not total number of knobs in the synth section, but yes Scott already corrected my initial assertion (a combination of my aging memory, a general lack of interest in the Nord Stage, and the physical space taken up by a bank of sliders):

 

I'd bet mono synth was a conscious choice, and it has far more performance controls than a Nord Stage synth.

Hmmm... I'm not seeing that. True, its two envelopes have 4 full controls vs. 3-ish. But Nord seems to have more filter controls, more oscillator controls, more LFO controls. And, of course, it has both mono and poly modes.

 

And of course the Nord has the morph function.

 

If you post here much you'll get used to the snarky remarks especially on Hammond threads.

[niacin]

What irks me with Hammond, Nord, Kurzweil and others is that with Yamaha and Roland, you typically break $2k and their better quality actions come into play. $2500+ is a lot of scratch to pay for a Fatar TP-8O which is available on a lot of boards that are much cheaper. I realize that doesn"t factor in DSP, IP, UI and other things. But from a hardware point of view - irksome.

 

The Fatar TP-8O is in the Nord Electro/C2/Stage Compact, the Hammond SK1/2/x/pro, the Numa (obviously) and the Mojo, but none of them are cheap so I'm wondering what you're referring to when you wrote: "a lot of boards that are much cheaper" ???

[niacin]

Here ya' go... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Fr9cObRaep37A9Y1PZtRkVWxKKDsXUGPk9ubfhYgoSk/edit?usp=sharing

 

Above I compared it to YC61... the other boards people will clearly be comparing to are the Nords ... Hammond still has the edge on MIDI zones (3 vs. 2), more flexible split points, 10 patch select buttons (vs. 5), probably more flexible output routing options, probably more total effects flexibility, better display. And, on the 73, it looks like the Hammond has enough free panel space to hold an iPad. Though the Hammond is $800 cheaper (or $1100 cheaper if you could get by with a 61).

 

But again, this is irrespective of the sounds. And they're kind of important.

 

Thanks for doing the spreadsheet, it's a great start point to narrow the choice down according to certain criteria that matter to each of us. I wouldn't bet on more total effects on the SKpro though until either Jim gets back to your question (above) or the manual is released (still not up). I suspect the multi-effects are just 2 blocks with separate sends for each of the 4 sections. And the choice I'm looking at is an SKpro versus a YC61 MIDIed up to an HX3, which I currently have, and the glaring difference from a performance point of view is what do I really want accessible from the top panel: on the YC61 it's all the effects controls, while for the SKpro it's the mono synth, and atm I'm really not sure. An SKpro2 or SKXpro or whatever they want to call the 2-manual version I would preorder tomorrow. This, not sure yet.