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Fastest way to lose a keyboard player


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that sounds like ' try as you go '. or " the guitar player is / is not being nice to me '.

 

Not criticizing. But it seems captain obvious to me that its important to determine in advance

who the alpha male is in your ' another band '. then you can decide if its worth your time and money.

 

Of course I"m always discussing this before taking the decision to join a band or not. But in general, this is not really a problem for me, as I"m rather picky about the bands I decide to work with. And I"m not really trying to play in rock bands anyway, because there"s not much space for keyboards ð and it"s not so interesting to play, as far as I"m concerned.

 

But I"m not doing this for a living, so I can afford such an approach ð

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When a band is looking for a keyboard player and they send you their setlist and it 90% songs with no keyboards. Or "Classic Rock" where there is nothing but piano or organ. Or, the band finds out that you are a better singer than the lead singer but won't let you sing any leads.

 

I love Top40 because it is totally fun and challenging to program and perform the most important parts. Even Disco is more way more fun for me than "Classic Rock". I do love a lot of the 80s stuff for keys.

 

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Not criticizing. But it seems captain obvious to me that its important to determine in advance

who the alpha male is in your ' another band '. then you can decide if its worth your time and money.

 

Of course I"m always discussing this before taking the decision to join a band or not. But in general, this is not really a problem for me, as I"m rather picky about the bands I decide to work with. And I"m not really trying to play in rock bands anyway, because there"s not much space for keyboards ð and it"s not so interesting to play, as far as I"m concerned.

 

But I"m not doing this for a living, so I can afford such an approach ð

 

You can't always sniff out the alpha male in advance. That happened to me in the past. My role as a keyboard player diminished gradually, but did not go unnoticed. Guitar hero dominated the song selections with songs that are fun to play on guitar leaving little to nothing to play on keyboards. I was open about my frustrations.

 

I can afford to be selective too. I don't do this for a living. Band auditions work both ways, I'm screening them too. It doesn't hurt that I live in an area where there are very few keyboard players.

 

Be in an OK band that is the opening act for a really great band that is looking for a keyboard player.

 

Happened with my current band, they "stole" me from my previous band who had replaced their guitar player with a guitar hero who played at full bore and had zero concept of playing in an ensemble. Convenient excuse to leave.

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What does the gig pay?

 

That's always the right question when your free-lancing. I know you're being facetious in a Kanker-esque way, but on a serious note, to me, being "in a band" implies that you're looking beyond the pay at one or a few gigs and trying to create something greater than the sum of its parts. But that requires a certain level of cooperation and mutual respect.

I was quoting the Kanker meme, but not facetiously. (Side note: 'facetious' is one of the handful of English words that uses each of the vowels exactly once and in alphabetical order, including the 'sometimes y' when you make it an adverb.) Sure, it wouldn't be the most musically rewarding night of my life, but if you want to pay me to show up and smile nicely while you do all the playing, go right ahead and do that. If you wanted me to commit to a project for fun with that same condition....right. Pass.

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Suggest a cover song that gives you something to play on keyboard, guitar player brings in a "cool version" with the keyboard parts omitted, band says "that's cool let's learn that"..

 

I had that happen but the singer was the offender. Tribute band set but she decides to do the ballad with just guitar. As a hired gun I'd normally not give it a second thought, but it was a late change and I was really pleased with the synth patch I'd programmed to play the original (fat, warm OB saw pad that sounded gorgeous imho). If it had been a regular covers band looking for a keyboard player they'd have found themselves still looking.

Gig keys: Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Crumar Mojo 61, Crumar Mojo Pedals

 

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In a cover band situation several years ago, I was the sub keyboard player for a couple months. It was fun at first, since I recently got a MacBook Pro and wanted to try out my MainStage setup, but:

 

1) In many songs, the guitarist played the same parts I played

2) The drummer was loud AF; there were no dynamics whatsoever.

3) The band lacked an actual musical director. I could do it, but I'd need to get paid more for it. The male singer, who's actually a talented piano player himself and has better sightreading and orchestrating chops than I do, was certainly qualified to be the MD, but only wanted to sing and not deal with any instruments for this band.

 

Nice folks, and I'm still friends with many of them, but I respectfully bowed out.

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Mathematically speaking, the fastest way to get rid of a keyboard player is to not audition or hire them in the first place.

I've been in bands with keyboards and I've been in bands without keyboards. Both are fun, both have their advantages.

I've been in bands where I knew I would not be staying long, I've turned down opportunities at the audition and I've passed on scheduling an audition based on a phone call.

I've also spent 9 years in one band with a fair amount of rotation ( I was the only constant besides the bandleader/lead singer/guitarist. Current project has been going well for 5+ years, mostly with the same players. Sometimes we've hired in for pickup gigs because somebody was out of town, not a big deal.

 

Not everything works or will work. I don't try to make it work, if it did it would.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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Keep rehearsing in a small room for six hours every week during a pandemic.

 

Play Superstition in E, playing hogging the main riff on guitar.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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Play Superstition in E, playing hogging the main riff on guitar.

 

It's funny you should say that. I think simply asking what key they play Superstition in and would they be willing to do it in the original key would probably tell me everything I needed to know to take up or turn down an offer to join a covers band.

Gig keys: Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Crumar Mojo 61, Crumar Mojo Pedals

 

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A band with a deaf guitarist & yeah, I'm always moving my KB stand to the ends of the stage area to create comfortable real estate for the guitarist. My audible solos are intros to Superstition & Dancing in the moonlight.
You don't know you're in the dark until you're in the light.
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So, in 2015 I"m playing a Dixieland concert, but we as a band had decided to add in some non-Dixieland songs. Our trumpeter put on his guitar and called Superstition and he"s going to sing it. . I ask 'what key", knowingly, and heard 'E". Ah...

 

Now, because I was playing the song five nights a week in 1975, I immediately counted off. Holy crap, the under-60 members looked over at me, because we"re not using the Stevie-Ray tempo. WTF! I set the original Stevie-Wonder tempo. Much slower, and requiring deep deep concentration on the groove. As the drummer kicks off the beat, I signal to the guitarist that 'I have the lick", not him. And now I"m sort of in control. The pedal-wah was one of my Mainstage presets (The Clav) using my expression pedal, and it became a time machine to bring us from 2015 to 1975.

 

But every time we came to a new section the band sped up to get to the comfortable SRV tempo, only to be disciplined by me when the clav part came back in pulling us back to the starting tempo. (Yes, I will admit that sometimes I"m a f&&k. The Triumph of the Will?). Maybe this was my musicians version of 'you kids get off my lawn?

 

After the set the Dixieland trumpeter - funk guitarist says: 'Man, I don"t know what kind of drugs they were doing back then, but they were weird'.

 

You can"t make up s$$t like this!

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Ask him to play a funky rythm just on one or two notes for a complete set ðð We"re are here to make the audience shake they booty, not to satisfy the guitar player"s ego ððð

 

 

Too easy, just kick in my looper, set my guitar down and go chat up the waitress. Foof.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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Interesting thread. The most enjoyable experiences I have had in bands was starting my own and steering more of the repertoire from the start and playing with the people I wanted. It took a couple months of rehearsals to get the first set list, but we ended up with something a lot different from the traditional fare of classic and blues based rock.

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So...what"s the fastest way to lose a guitar player? :poke::D

To hijack an old classic: Put a sheet of music in front of him.

 

 

Right, so you would not have hired Jeff Healey. Got it.

 

Or, for that matter - Stevie Wonder or Ray Charles. Excellent method for qualifying musicians in general.

 

FWIW, no knocks on you - I got no beef with anybody and I know we are just goofing on this thread. My turn!

 

Doesn't stop me from taking a poke here and there. The sheet of "music" (just a bunch of dots) joke is probably centuries old - like European notation.

I'd love to see you write a chart for the solo in the middle of this song -

Before you say he's just wildly zipping around, Muddy plays more or less that same exact solo on a few different songs and always with the same inflections. Many notes in the deep blues are not on the tempered scale, the African music that influenced the Blues (and Jazz) was influenced by Middle Eastern music. There are more than 12 tones in the octave and they use the natural fifth instead of the artificial fifth that Bach and his buddies insisted on using to make it possible to play slightly out of tune in all keys.

 

European charts are handy for some instruments if you want to play classical music. The Europeans did recognize the Just Scale but not the Middle Eastern or Indian scales. 12 evenly spaced notes written for an instrument with set tuning and only one of each note is a practical system given it's limitations. If we make it the "be all end all" then modern music is doomed. No Billie Holiday or Miles Davis allowed!

 

By the way, you do know that there are 5 different places on the neck of a Stratocaster where middle C can be played? One is at the 1st fret and one is at the 20th fret a few strings up, the rest are in between. More notation is required than a piano chart to play the same thing on a guitar. You will need position marks at least or you will have to make instantaneous decisions as to where you will play the note based on what notes come next. On piano, middle C is in one place, much simpler.

 

Just pointing out that in context, the joke is a joke. Cheers, Kuru

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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Back to the original topic ...

 

I've had to leave bands because they were dysfunctional in one fatal way or another, and never because I was a keyboard player. I've always felt mostly welcome, included and accommodated for the most part -- even by guitar players. Yes, we have differences of opinion on arrangements, etc. but that's normal as long as everyone's input is treated with respect.

 

I do qualify the situation up front, e.g. "why do you want a keyboard player?". Lots of potentially unsatisfactory answers to that question.

 

Poor answers:

-- they are looking for a horn section but can't afford one

-- they have a few songs with signature keyboard-ish parts (yes, there are bands that still want to play "Jump")

-- they want a lush pad layer so guitar hero can solo his brains out (usually quite boring)

-- they have never played with a keyboard player before and want to give it a try

 

Good answers:

-- they want to incorporate keys as a fundamental part of the band sound

-- the previous decent keys player left and the setlist needs keys badly

-- they are getting bored with the sound of two guitars and want to move to the next level

-- the female vocalist demands keys, especially piano (happens frequently it seems)

 

If I don't qualify the opportunity, it's my fault if I later figure out that they really don't want a keys player.

 

As mentioned earlier, it seems to vary by musical genre and the experience level of the musicians. You'd be surprised how many competent amateurs have never played with a decent keys player. Fortunately, there are more bands here locally looking for keys than there are good keys players.

Want to make your band better?  Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band"

 

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When I used to audition for bands, many moons ago, I would get their song lists to peruse. Sometimes I would see songs like ' Use Me', 'Superstition', ' Dixie Chicken' (or some other Little Feat). I would think - cool, keyboard parts!

90 percent of the time the guitarist(s) glommed onto the keyboard parts and, after playing them for years, wouldn"t let them go - even if they were wrongly played.

Got to the point that those songs would show up and it became a red flag - don"t bother auditioning!

Like cphollis" poor answer - they never played with a keyboard player before and want to give it a try.

Professional musician = great source of poverty.

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A. Insist the keyboard player sit right by the guitarist who turns up to 8 with a tube amp because he doesn't like mics. And no headphones or earplugs allowed. The forced positioning is more of the issue.

 

Or B. Insist the keyboardist sit next to the acoustic drums with the crash cymbals at ear level. :)

 

Or even C. "We run 102dB on stage because we love to feel the music. Oh, no earplugs for anyone because it looks tacky :)."

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A. Insist the keyboard player sit right by the guitarist who turns up to 8 with a tube amp because he doesn't like mics. And no headphones or earplugs allowed. The forced positioning is more of the issue.

 

That's my situation, but I set up behind his cabinet and I point my keyboard monitor across/over his guitar amp. Works well. His cabinet doesn't obstruct me so I can still be seen on stage.

 

As for my Leslie, you can even put it around the corner and they ALL still hear it.

 

Or B. Insist the keyboardist sit next to the acoustic drums with the crash cymbals at ear level. :)

 

Sometimes a hearing impairment can be a blessing

 

Or even C. "We run 102dB on stage because we love to feel the music. Oh, no earplugs for anyone because it looks tacky :)."

 

Deal killer. Fortunately not a problem with current band.

 

Back to the original topic ...

 

Indeed. Don't get me wrong, I LIKE guitar players. Bad guitar players are hardly alone, there are bad keyboard players too.

 

I've had to leave bands because they were dysfunctional in one fatal way or another, and never because I was a keyboard player. I've always felt mostly welcome, included and accommodated for the most part -- even by guitar players. Yes, we have differences of opinion on arrangements, etc. but that's normal as long as everyone's input is treated with respect.

 

I do qualify the situation up front, e.g. "why do you want a keyboard player?". Lots of potentially unsatisfactory answers to that question.

 

Good question... happy to report that current bands meet the good criteria

 

Good answers:

-- they want to incorporate keys as a fundamental part of the band sound

 

In the interim they had been consciously planning the songs for a keyboard player

 

-- the previous decent keys player left and the setlist needs keys badly

 

They claim they could not find ANY keyboard players. Not sure if they meant a COMPETENT player...

 

-- they are getting bored with the sound of two guitars and want to move to the next level

 

Most definitely

 

-- the female vocalist demands keys, especially piano (happens frequently it seems)

 

Most definitely

 

You'd be surprised how many competent amateurs have never played with a decent keys player.

 

Don't we know it. And I'm not shy about confronting it.

 

Fortunately, there are more bands here locally looking for keys than there are good keys players.

 

Same here. Nice to be in demand.

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When I used to audition for bands, many moons ago, I would get their song lists to peruse. Sometimes I would see songs like ' Use Me', 'Superstition', ' Dixie Chicken' (or some other Little Feat). I would think - cool, keyboard parts!

90 percent of the time the guitarist(s) glommed onto the keyboard parts and, after playing them for years, wouldn"t let them go - even if they were wrongly played.

 

*AND* they're always in the key of E, A or D.ð

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