Churchy Sound - Gospel Harmony

[AROIOS]

 

That's not statistically true, and it's a cop-out.

 

Compare the Top 40 charts of any of the last 10 years to the same charts between 1975~1995 and tell me "Every generation has the same proportion of cream and crap." again, with a straight face.

 

Do you see what happened here though? You started out saying something about statistics, but then you relied solely on the self-confirming measure of your own opinion to support it.

...

But I hope we can all agree that the only thing actually special about the music we grew up loving, was solely that it was the music we grew up loving, not that some mystical hand of a musical overlord blessed our particular 15 years of musical prime, with something no one else has ever had.

 

As I've mentioned in my response to uhoh7, as subjective as musical preferences and tastes are, to equate that with "every piece of music is as good as another" is a fallacy.

 

If we can't agree on the overall deterioration of quality of Pop music in the last 25 years, further discussion would be meaningless. So let's stop here before wasting any more of each other's time.

 

"not that some mystical hand of a musical overlord blessed our particular 15 years of musical prime, with something no one else has ever had."

 

Actually yes, there was a "musical overlord" who blessed Pop between the 70's and 90's. That "overload" is the collective of brilliant session musicians, arrangers, producers, record labels and radio channels that hadn't yet totally sold out. Pop in the last 25 years has been chasing to the bottom because of earnings pressure from Wall Street and Private Equity.

 

Again, you might not feel that way and don't cover your ears when you hear brain-dead garbage in a store. God bless you if that's the case, I'm glad you are immune to musical stupidity of Pop as it is today.

[AROIOS]

Oh yeah, the video..I liked it and the sounds created alot, cool guy to invite into you living room too. My only criticism is that the chords flash on the screen too quickly, IMO it would be better with them in a sequence with the current one highlighted, similar to iReal book.

 

Glad you enjoyed the video, pinkfloydcramer. You can play the video back at a slower speed on Youtube or download it and play it with your favorite media player at any speed. Those software generated chord names are based on pattern matching and may not reflect the true functional nature of the chords, so I usually take them with a grain of salt.

[MathOfInsects]

Actually yes, there was a "musical overlord" who blessed Pop between the 70's and 90's. That "overload" is the collective of brilliant session musicians, arrangers, producers, record labels and radio channels that hadn't yet totally sold out. Pop in the last 25 years has been chasing to the bottom because of earnings pressure from Wall Street and Private Equity.

 

And yet, as positively as you feel about the music of the 70's-90s, that is exactly how much the generations who came before you hated it. Even the very best song from that span was someone else's crap. So how can the quality live in the music? It clearly lives in the generation of listeners that music was created by and for.

 

There were session musicians long before your music-listening prime, as there have been in the 30 years hence. There was earnings pressure before and after your prime. The entire recorded-music industry has never not been a for-profit venture; in fact, it was birthed as a means of selling sheet music.

 

The only difference between the music of the people who thought yours was crap, and the music you now think is crap, is the age of the people doing the crap-designating.

 

It's natural.

[AROIOS]

I shouldn't love this song. But I do. Played it in a band in high school.

Not to mention love the inverted bass figures.

 

[video:youtube]

 

By the same token, I shouldn't love those Michael Bolton and Kenny G tunes on my playlist.

 

Classic Rock is an excellent point of self-reflection when I try to analyze/rationalize my musical preference, which could roughly be described as a reasonable level of sophistication in harmony and rhythm. So Impressionism/Jazz/Gospel harmony and Afro-Cuban rhythms fit the bill well naturally.

 

But Classic Rock seems to sit at the opposite side of that picture. As you said, I "shouldn't" love classic rock, if only based on my own criterion above.

 

But I do. and that contradiction offers me some empathy towards music I consider "garbage".

 

Hard pushed to justify/rationalize this "irrationality", I might say that Rock as a genre is like battle hymns that call to our wild inner self.

 

With that said, there's no music we should feel guilty/wrong about listening to, unless we're blasting it at others who don't share the same fondness.

[AROIOS]

Actually yes, there was a "musical overlord" who blessed Pop between the 70's and 90's. That "overload" is the collective of brilliant session musicians, arrangers, producers, record labels and radio channels that hadn't yet totally sold out. Pop in the last 25 years has been chasing to the bottom because of earnings pressure from Wall Street and Private Equity.

 

And yet, as positively as you feel about the music of the 70's-90s, that is exactly how much the generations who came before you hated it. Even the very best song from that span was someone else's crap. So how can the quality live in the music? It clearly lives in the generation of listeners that music was created by and for.

 

There were session musicians long before your music-listening prime, as there have been in the 30 years hence. There was earnings pressure before and after your prime. The entire recorded-music industry has never not been a for-profit venture; in fact, it was birthed as a means of selling sheet music.

 

The only difference between the music of the people who thought yours was crap, and the music you now think is crap, is the age of the people doing the crap-designating.

 

It's natural.

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

 

I'm fully aware of the generational gaps on musical preferences, especially for the casual listeners. That's why I responded to SamuelBLupowitz earlier: "Boomers and GenX weren't born with better taste than the younger guys, they were just lucky enough to have a music industry that hadn't been commercialized to the point of suffocation."

 

To keep this discussion on point, I'll simply paste this again: "If we can't agree on the overall deterioration of quality of Pop music in the last 25 years, further discussion would be meaningless."

[jazzpiano88]

To keep this discussion on point, I'll simply paste this again: "If we can't agree on the overall deterioration of quality of Pop music in the last 25 years, further discussion would be meaningless."

When I was in 7th grade (1976), my disgusted Music teacher in middle school told our class that "Music was over" and that the future of music was Disco. And we might as well accept it and get used to it.

I think he was taking out his frustration on us with hyperbole but it stuck in my mind to this day.

 

My point being, don't BS us with some crap about your perception of music quality when some of the best music has come out pre and post your's and mine's arbitrary timelines.

If you can't deal with it, then you need to fix yourself, and not try to impose your measures of "music quality" on the rest of us as a condition of further debate.

[MAJUSCULE]

I dunno why we're getting hung up on what's on the charts.

 

Because they play a huge part in shaping the taste of most casual listeners.

 

Pretty sure they played a much larger part in that during the era you yearn for.

 

I gotta say, I just find your pessimistic outlook on modern music tiring. Must be hard to be so jaded all the time.

 

...

 

Actually reading through the next page, and sometimes it's more funny than tiring. Very bizarre to see things as so black and white. What record broke the beautiful industry we had up until the 90s? Which industry exec or label woke up and decided to poison the well? How do you take yourself so seriously?

[AROIOS]

To keep this discussion on point, I'll simply paste this again: "If we can't agree on the overall deterioration of quality of Pop music in the last 25 years, further discussion would be meaningless."

When I was in 7th grade (1976), my disgusted Music teacher in middle school told our class that "Music was over" and that the future of music was Disco. And we might as well accept it and get used to it.

I think he was taking out his frustration on us with hyperbole but it stuck in my mind to this day.

 

My point being, don't BS us with some crap about your perception of music quality when some of the best music has come out pre and post your's and mine's arbitrary timelines.

If you can't deal with it, then you need to fix yourself, and not try to impose your measures of "music quality" on the rest of us as a condition of further debate.

 

I did not and could not care less about "imposing" anything on you, not do I give a crap about your BS perception of music quality.

 

If you can't deal with my opinion in my post, then you need to fix yourself and simply leave this post and start your own thread.

[AROIOS]

I dunno why we're getting hung up on what's on the charts.

 

Because they play a huge part in shaping the taste of most casual listeners.

 

Pretty sure they played a much larger part in that during the era you yearn for.

 

I gotta say, I just find your pessimistic outlook on modern music tiring. Must be hard to be so jaded all the time.

 

...

 

Actually reading through the next page, and sometimes it's more funny than tiring. Very bizarre to see things as so black and white. What record broke the beautiful industry we had up until the 90s? Which industry exec or label woke up and decided to poison the well? How do you take yourself so seriously?

 

You can it pessimistic, I call it realistic. So we'll simply have to agree to disagree.

[MathOfInsects]

AROIOS, no one is saying you can't have the opinion that you have. It's actually a pretty commonly expressed one. Rather, it's the proclamation that unless someone agrees with you, they are banned from engaging with either you or your ideas, that rankles. This is a DISCUSSION board, with some pretty well-tuned listeners, thinkers, and players. If you can't handle a little bit of engagement with the ideas you proclaim, you might want to rethink the angle of any threads you start. "Post your best examples of modern gospel" would garner a different kind of response than, "...instead of that crappy music you listen to and don't know any better than to like."

 

In other words, if your skin is thin, it's best not to choose darts as your weapon of choice...

[GovernorSilver]

I dunno why we're getting hung up on what's on the charts.

Brotha Eric, as a young man, sit back with your favorite food, snack and beverage and enjoy reading this thread.

 

Hopefully, a few decades from now, you will not be that older muso calling that generation's music garbage and/or longing for the days of Bruno Mars, Snarky Puppy and Cory Henry.

 

Now, this thread reminds me of the conversations I had with my dad back in the 1980s. The Motown sound and 1970s Soul were the epitome of music for him. To his ears, the music I listened to sounded like garbage regardless of genre. Some of it is classic stuff now.

 

Today, when working on a home improvement job with my dad, he likes listening to Smooth Jazz and I want to run my drill straight through my head.

 

I feel you on that.

 

My old man was into the Laurence Welk Show. Thankfully, he was also into basketball and boxing so I wasn't stuck watching only Laurence Welk on TV. Also thankful he never argued with us that Laurence Welk music was better than any music made after 1970. Later he got MJ's Thriller on cassette. He always played that cassette whenever he had us young people in the car to show us he's hip. Even in the 90s!

 

One "young people's muso" he ranted against was David Lee Roth. He hated the long hair and outfits.

 

He wasn't too keen on my younger cousin's musical tastes though. Little boy was into Linkin Park and other "nu metal".

 

Last New Year's I spent with him, we were flipping back and forth between New Year's Eve countdown shows. By then he couldn't move around much anymore - he needed a walker and all that. So no going out and boozing it up. He kept asking me to explain who was this pop artist and that. I kept saying sorry and telling him I don't know who they are either. I honestly didn't recognize anyone except the 80s boy band that did a reunion set. I think it's the one with Mark Wahllberg? Anyway, it was kind of funny, because he didn't know the artists because they were after his time and I didn't know them because I just don't follow pop music.

[AROIOS]

AROIOS, no one is saying you can't have the opinion that you have. It's actually a pretty commonly expressed one. Rather, it's the proclamation that unless someone agrees with you, they are banned from engaging with either you or your ideas, that rankles. This is a DISCUSSION board, with some pretty well-tuned listeners, thinkers, and players. If you can't handle a little bit of engagement with the ideas you proclaim, you might want to rethink the angle of any threads you start. "Post your best examples of modern gospel" would garner a different kind of response than, "...instead of that crappy music you listen to and don't know any better than to like."

 

In other words, if your skin is thin, it's best not to choose darts as your weapon of choice...

 

That's fair and constructive, MathOfInsects.

 

We should have known better than to argue over personal opinions instead of hard facts.

 

I apologize for my harsh tone in response to your post earlier.

[roygBiv]

I was about to ask if anyone else found it ironic that a thread about Gospel/sacred music was becoming acrimonious...

 

Thus, glad to see it come to reconciliation/resolution ......... the spirit of Gospel would approve

[jazzpiano88]

I was about to ask if anyone else found it ironic that a thread about Gospel/sacred music was becoming acrimonious...

 

Thus, glad to see it come to reconciliation/resolution ......... the spirit of Gospel would approve

Agreed! I apologize to ARIOS for being unreasonably harsh. I have seen the light.

 

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/7ATBbrfmzc0?t=10

[AROIOS]

I was about to ask if anyone else found it ironic that a thread about Gospel/sacred music was becoming acrimonious...

 

Thus, glad to see it come to reconciliation/resolution ......... the spirit of Gospel would approve

Agreed! I apologize to ARIOS for being unreasonably harsh. I have seen the light.

 

roygBiv, thanks for pointing out the irony.

 

JazzPiano88, thanks for extending the olive branch and I'm sorry for adding fuel to the unnecessary fire earlier.

[MathOfInsects]

That's fair and constructive, MathOfInsects.

 

We should have known better than to argue over personal opinions instead of hard facts.

 

I apologize for my harsh tone in response to your post earlier.

Kind of you to say. And I'm sorry for using you as launching pad for a generalized gripe I hold against a particular point of view.

[uhoh7]

I'll chime in.....

Those young people don't find a conflict between Cory Henry and Lay Lay:

Speaking of Lay Lay, she should to an autotune version of this to a hip hop beat.

I'd be perfect.

[video:youtube]

 

LOL Just for the record, I did not post Lay Lay as an example of good or bad music. I do think her video is an example of how lyrical "rap" has become for some artists, and the production work behind the song, which if you listen with headphones, is considerable. 34 million views....that is some seriously "pure garbage". I admit I find it entertaining, as I do "No No". This is one strong vein of popular music, today, and novel to me. There is alot invovation and imagination going on in a contest for ears and eyes.

 

As to "autotune".... I have no idea what your feelings are about it, I just take your remark as wit and it made me laugh It would be good. More broadly though on the subject for many I guess its OK to send a keyboard through god knows how many effects, and pretty impossible to play off key for a competent musican, since the 12 tones are already "autotuned", but somehow vocal autotune means these people "just can't sing". When autotune is used as a put down, it reminds me of the disco riot, frankly. These genres are highly produced and autotune can be part of that, just like a vocoder.

 

I've been a fan of Shirley Temple since childhood. Highly trained and talented Temple had no rival at the box office in the height of the depression. Even Rooney could rip on the keys, and both could dance very well. Raising my daughter we watched every musical we could find between 1930 all the way to the last big ones in the 60s. Esther Williams sold more organs than any muscian ever did when she gave Ethel Smith a platform in Bathing Beauty:

[video:youtube]

15 years before I played a Hammond I watched this with my 5 year old daughter and marveled at it. I hadn't heard of Jimmy Smith.

 

Juxtaposed to Lay Lay's highly produced "post rap" not only do we have the incredible live traditions upheld in the COGIC and other black churches, studied by musicologists for their direct links to african music, but the Cuban genres and their offspring, which are barely electrical but put much American music to shame in both rhythm and lyrics. Across Latin America live music is living and breathing with a vibrancy I haven't seen here since about 1975. At least before the big lockdowns. I never knew what a tumbao or montuno was before age 60, but I'm glad I've lived long enough to learn what they are and do terrible impressions

 

There are plenty of things in this world to lament. Musical expression isn't one of them. We should celebrate the variety even if our ears are crying. I haven't even got to EDM

[AROIOS]

I'll chime in.....

Those young people don't find a conflict between Cory Henry and Lay Lay:

Speaking of Lay Lay, she should to an autotune version of this to a hip hop beat.

I'd be perfect.

[video:youtube]

 

LOL Just for the record, I did not post Lay Lay as an example of good or bad music.

...

There are plenty of things in this world to lament. Musical expression isn't one of them. We should celebrate the variety even if our ears are crying. I haven't even got to EDM

 

Thanks for being a good sport, uhoh7. And NO, don't get me started on EDM!

 

Joking aside, genres don't necessarily define the quality of music labeled under them. The "sound" we associate with a genre is often just a cliche created by musicians following/imitating the trend setters.

 

I first had that revelation 17 years ago. In the 90's, I hated Trance and considered it the idiotic cousin of House. That was until I played some Cheryl Lynn chord progressions on a Trance combi preset from Korg TRITON.

 

Boy did it sound good.

 

At that moment I realized I don't hate Trance, at least not for its defining rhythm and sounds, I was just extremely bored by the anemic harmony on most Trance tracks I encountered.

 

So chances are, throw some nice chords on top of an otherwise ear-grinding EDM beat, and we'll get something tasteful in return.

[AROIOS]

I'll chime in.....

Those young people don't find a conflict between Cory Henry and Lay Lay:

Speaking of Lay Lay, she should to an autotune version of this to a hip hop beat.

I'd be perfect.

 

Ok, I jumped on the idea and made a quick Jazz Hop demo version of what I would enjoy listening to:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18mgG_wi1675g0Se3Euk-wsdb0TYkf4KX/view

[Noah DC]

The weirdest part of this thread is that anybody chose 'the last 25 years' as the timeframe to mark the decline of pop music. As a younger guy, it"s just a bizarre hill to die on. I was cracking up googling the Billboard Top 100s from '25 years ago.' Yeah, the inherent musicality of pop music has really gone down hill since 'Every Rose Has It"s Thorn' hit number 3 on the charts. Of course, the true origin of The Great Musicianship Decline in Pop Music is after they gave Milli Vanilli that Grammy in '89. Now those guys knew their tritones!

[Noah DC]

In 1953, when there was Miles Davis and Nat King Cole and any number of legendary producers and sidemen working in the industry, the number one song for eight weeks on the Billboard charts was 'How Much is that Doggy in the Window.'

 

Schlock is timeless. Bad musicianship is timeless. Great musicianship is timeless. And any of it can make people feel right at any given time and that"s a good thing.

[Theo Verelst]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18mgG_wi1675g0Se3Euk-wsdb0TYkf4KX/view

 

I this supposed to prove to anyone the relevance of these kinds of works ?

[AROIOS]

The weirdest part of this thread is that anybody chose 'the last 25 years' as the timeframe to mark the decline of pop music. As a younger guy, it"s just a bizarre hill to die on. I was cracking up googling the Billboard Top 100s from '25 years ago.' Yeah, the inherent musicality of pop music has really gone down hill since 'Every Rose Has It"s Thorn' hit number 3 on the charts. Of course, the true origin of The Great Musicianship Decline in Pop Music is after they gave Milli Vanilli that Grammy in '89. Now those guys knew their tritones!

 

I love your sarcasm and understand where you are coming from regarding "Every Rose" and Milli Vanilli. To think it through though, it's not much different from Michachel Bolton bashing. Or for that matter, how Doobie Brothers and Jefferson Airplane fans hated these bands' new incarnations.

 

Most casual listeners are conformists. And it's very convenient and comforting to bash a band/artist when everyone else is doing so.

 

But I don't expect the same from musicians. For a musician, it should be obvious that "Every Rose" is not any worse than "Knocking on Heaven's Door" when we strip out the lyrics.

 

Scandals aside, the arrangements of Milli Vanilli tunes are miles ahead of the "ee-ee-aa-aa, woh-oh-woh-oh" garbage around us today.

 

If those are the best examples you can come up with, you've just proven my point.

 

Oh, and you missed the word "statistically" in my ranting. Having 15 bad songs in Top 40 in 1990 is not the same as having 30 bad songs in it in 2015.

[AROIOS]

Ok, I need to stop wasting time in the rabbit hole of arguing over opinions before another round of back-and-forth starts.

 

These kind of discussions remind me of dinner table arguments over politics and religions. Come to think of it, nothing constructive had ever come out of those.

[Noah DC]

Scandals aside, the arrangements of Milli Vanilli tunes are miles ahead of the "ee-ee-aa-aa, woh-oh-woh-oh" garbage around us today

 

Truly did not expect the end result here to be the mounting of a defense placing Milli Vanilli 'miles ahead' of today"s 'garbage' music! I agree these conversations do have that ring of dinner table politics - older folks telling younger folks how it is without any real idea about the current scene. If anyone would like to take a constructive approach and learn about all the great music out there these days (and great Vanilli-esque schlock! Schlock can be great and meaningful to people, too!), then I"m sure there are plenty of folks here happy to oblige with some links, myself included.

[MathOfInsects]

If anyone would like to take a constructive approach and learn about all the great music out there these days (and great Vanilli-esque schlock! Schlock can be great and meaningful to people, too!), then I"m sure there are plenty of folks here happy to oblige with some links, myself included.

 

May I humbly suggest: My thread for posting great new pop music

[AROIOS]

Scandals aside, the arrangements of Milli Vanilli tunes are miles ahead of the "ee-ee-aa-aa, woh-oh-woh-oh" garbage around us today

 

Truly did not expect the end result here to be the mounting of a defense placing Milli Vanilli 'miles ahead' of today"s 'garbage' music! I agree these conversations do have that ring of dinner table politics - older folks telling younger folks how it is without any real idea about the current scene. If anyone would like to take a constructive approach and learn about all the great music out there these days (and great Vanilli-esque schlock! Schlock can be great and meaningful to people, too!), then I"m sure there are plenty of folks here happy to oblige with some links, myself included.

 

Excellent suggestion. I don't particularly care for Milli Vanilli tunes, but a quick glance at their Youtube channel turns up something perfectly listenable:

 

[video:youtube]

[uhoh7]

I'll chime in.....

Those young people don't find a conflict between Cory Henry and Lay Lay:

Speaking of Lay Lay, she should to an autotune version of this to a hip hop beat.

I'd be perfect.

 

Ok, I jumped on the idea and made a quick Jazz Hop demo version of what I would enjoy listening to:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18mgG_wi1675g0Se3Euk-wsdb0TYkf4KX/view

 

This is priceless!! OMG

 

My daughter told me the other day I might be interested in MF Doom (RIP). It shows how cloistered I am I did know "who" MF doom even was, despite my MPC 1000 ownership. Last night I took her advice and listened to about half of this great interview (I feel asleep as it was late) and I'm going watch the rest shortly.

 

I love the back stories he relates, and I really like his curiosity:

[video:youtube]

 

This kind of great sampling was killed by those owning the rights and demanding giant portions of the revenue...almost never the original artists of course. But sometimes it was. That's another controversial topic we better avoid LOL They say the industrial revolution was delayed 50 years by a dispute between the two primary holders of steam patents. How has China developed so fast so they can make all our new gear, bullet trains, and.....? The lack of complex intellectual property law. I think one recent case here a jury allowed a melody to be licensed. There are very few possible melodies with 12 tones, in reality, as you guys know better than me.

 

Now on the opposite end of the spectrum, I discovered another "Barry Whisperer" with pretty simple video skills, but a wonderful understanding of using Barry Harris and the 6th Dim scale in improvising. He has a bunch of videos on Barry's ideas, but here is Barry's "origin story" told as well as I've heard:

 

[video:youtube]

 

Most know, but few great players recording before the 80's learned to play with any idea of modes, at least as a tool for action in battle. Today modes are introduced very early by academia and youtube teachers. I suppose it's one way to get people to take more lessons

 

Charlie Parker never used a mode intentionally in his life, but every piano player "has" to know them right?

 

Anyway, I find Kay's approach very soothing in these troubled times. In another video he is talking 2 5 ones, and using a DIM 2nd to provide the borrowed tones. In another he was harmonizing to very interesting results with the 6dim scale (just a major scale with a added #5 or flat 6th). Kay knows the great Jazz players well, and he often refers aspects of Barry's teaching to particular players, which inspires me to listen more for myself.

 

My favorite thing about DIM7 chords: there are only 3

[AROIOS]

Thanks for helping me discover Kay, uhoh7. I love his excellent instructions.

[uhoh7]

Thanks for helping me discover Kay, uhoh7. I love his excellent instructions.

My pleasure thank you Aroios for starting a great discussion, seriously.

 

I bought my first piano in 1986. I was already interested in Jazz after being exposed to a famous radio series in 1980 called "The Black Cats Jump" while driving trucks in Alaska. Though he did not appear till late in the first season, this is where I first heard Charlie Parker. The whole series was a revelation to me, a typical folk-rock, Dylan and Doors fan. But Parker really dropped my jaw, not to mention Lester Young and Coleman Hawkins. I was inspired to buy a clarinet, my first instrument. It took awhile before I figured out you can't play a chord on a clarinet. Getting to that point I learned to read music.

 

I've depended on reading basically my whole playing life until recently, with a few exceptions like basic Boogie Woogie. Now that I have more time to play and am still fairly uninjured or affected in hand co-ordination, I'm pushing my skills in tempo and chord understanding. I'm exposed to many more lead sheets. But after all these years I have a big collection of full scores.

 

 

I'm learning to analyse famous standards...V of V of the 2 etc. Here is a bar of "How High the Moon" from the real score. Of interest to me in regards to Kay, is the C7flat9. In the old days I just played it, and I heard when I missed it. But now I'm playing stuff in multiple keys of course, obviously I need some simple way to respond to a 7flat9. If you play that chord as written you get DflatDIM7/C. This is huge for me, I'm sure it's old hat for many here. After a year with Barry Harris, I know my DIMs backwards and forwards. Thanks to Kay, it's so obvious now how I can think about these 7flat9s on the fly. This score was written in 1940, and you can really see the "pre-modal" mindset which Barry, Carol Kaye and others advocate for students. I find the DIM chords all over the place now, going way back, and many 6 chords also, even when there are already many 7 chords as in this score.

 

Barry's central point that any DIM chords become a 7 with 1/2 step down on any of the four tones is a wonderfull way to realise chord relationships. Going up 1/2 step on any single note provides a minor 7[correction: minor 6 (even better) thank you]. One DIM spawns 8 chords with a one finger half-step movement! That is such a wonderful unified concept utterly devoid of Greek nomenclature

 

Using this concept as Kay does gives many complex sounds. It also explains how all sorts of composers wrote "modally" with no clue about modes. Maybe someday I will find using modes to pick notes useful. For now I prefer the old school.