Fastest way to lose a keyboard player

[The Real MC]

Suggest a cover song that gives you something to play on keyboard, guitar player brings in a "cool version" with the keyboard parts omitted, band says "that's cool let's learn that".

 

Happened in at least two bands.

[cp-the-nerd]

There were a couple cover songs my band used to do where we combined originals with the modernized version. My favorite was playing RHCP Higher Ground with the Stevie clav wah part, crowds freakin loved it and classic rock snobs were totally into the Stevie nod.

[Adan]

Guitar player wanting to hog the mid-range is a pretty common problem. I've quit at least one band for that reason, probably others I'm not remembering right now.

 

Almost as common -- being asked to play too many non-keyboard parts (strings, horns, etc) note for note, leaving no space for keyboard mojo,

[jejefunkyman]

Instant quit for me ð No negotiation possible ð¤ You don"t want a keyboard player, then stay out of my way ð

 

Or you could use this as an opportunity to take a break and meanwhile go to the restroom, or get yourself a free drink ðð

[Song80s]

what I don't understand, after many years of reading similar posts, is why keyboard musicians don't make much effort to be ' in charge ' of how the music is arranged.

 

IOW, if you wait for the guitar player to run the process, don't be surprised if your role becomes mostly back up tracks

 

No, I don't agree with 'try as you go ' or what is loosely called ' democracy ' in choosing band material/arranging.

[nadroj]

Using backing tracks that include all of the main keyboard parts.

[nadroj]

Another way: the guitarist literally kills the keyboard player.

[lightbg]

You had me at 'guitar player'.

[MathOfInsects]

What does the gig pay?

[Iconoclast]

Yeah, one of my bands has backing tracks that are totally all over the keyboard parts. Drives me crazy.

[area51recording]

When I was young and single, I would use such opportunities to go to the bar, have a drink or 2 on the band tab and chat up some cute young lady (she would usually end up asking me if the guitar player was single, but whatever....)

[allan_evett]

Ask the keyboard player to face the side wall of a good-sized bar stage (with his Invisible Stand literally against the wall), to make more room for the guitarist and lead singer to roam around. This request actually happened to me, in the mid-late 1980's with an alt rock band. I refused to do it; instead I faced directly out toward the audience - with a full 88 on the bottom tier - instead of offering to face across the stage with my back to the wall. The lead guitarist stepped all over my leads that night, IIRC. So much passive-agressive crap; we were in our 20's, with no small amount of angst .

I left the band about a year later; joined a blues band. The alt-rock band members and I have remained good friends though. We had written and recorded a lot of material together, plus had some shared, outside-the-band interests.

[jejefunkyman]

what I don't understand, after many years of reading similar posts, is why keyboard musicians don't make much effort to be ' in charge ' of how the music is arranged.

 

IOW, if you wait for the guitar player to run the process, don't be surprised if your role becomes mostly back up tracks.

 

I don"t wait for anything, the guitar player is either with me or against me ðð

 

I assume that if I join a band, it"s because I have to play on all the songs. If that"s not the case, then I just look for another band ð¤·ââï¸

[ProfD]

what I don't understand, after many years of reading similar posts, is why keyboard musicians don't make much effort to be ' in charge ' of how the music is arranged.

 

IOW, if you wait for the guitar player to run the process, don't be surprised if your role becomes mostly back up tracks

 

No, I don't agree with 'try as you go ' or what is loosely called ' democracy ' in choosing band material/arranging.

Agreed.

 

But, that approach only works for those musicians who don't gig for a living.

 

So, I do understand the other side:

 

 

What does the gig pay?

This rationale totally makes sense when playing music is one's liveliood.

 

I do not believe the OP has to play music for a living and therefore should not be subjected to KB player as wallpaper.

 

In a way, I feel sorry for KB players in Rock-oriented cover bands.

 

No amount of [insert Rock KB god here] seems to have upped the value of a KB player's presence in Rock musically.

 

In similar threads, I've written that KB players should be bandleaders instead of being as we say in the ghetto, a side piece.

[Adan]

What does the gig pay?

 

That's always the right question when your free-lancing. I know you're being facetious in a Kanker-esque way, but on a serious note, to me, being "in a band" implies that you're looking beyond the pay at one or a few gigs and trying to create something greater than the sum of its parts. But that requires a certain level of cooperation and mutual respect.

[Song80s]

w

IOW, if you wait for the guitar player to run the process, don't be surprised if your role becomes mostly back up tracks.

 

I don"t wait for anything,

 

the guitar player is either with me or against me ðð

 

I assume that if I join a band, it"s because I have to play on all the songs. If that"s not the case, then I just look for another band ð¤·ââï¸

 

that sounds like ' try as you go '. or " the guitar player is / is not being nice to me '.

 

Not criticizing. But it seems captain obvious to me that its important to determine in advance

who the alpha male is in your ' another band '. then you can decide if its worth your time and money.

[Delaware Dave]

going through something similar now. the guitar player wants me to sequence a song that is very intricate; a song that will take several hours to get right and a song I don't even like playing.

[Song80s]

what I don't understand, after many years of reading similar posts, is why keyboard musicians don't make much effort to be ' in charge ' of how the music is arranged.

 

IOW, if you wait for the guitar player to run the process, don't be surprised if your role becomes mostly back up tracks

 

No, I don't agree with 'try as you go ' or what is loosely called ' democracy ' in choosing band material/arranging.

Agreed.

 

But, that approach only works for those musicians who don't gig for a living.

 

So, I do understand the other side:

 

 

:

 

yep, it seems it seems to be ' all about the[easiest ] money '.

FWIW, I am not into 100% chasing cover songs.

 

I recall Elton John was a financially successful keyboard band leader.

 

there are other examples, I believe.

[Stokely]

"We want you to play bass"

"We are going to run tracks"

"You can't use your in-ear monitors"

"You'll need to program the exact patches from the album and play the exact parts, and we'll be listening to make sure!"

 

All show-stoppers, along with a bunch of other stuff. Bearing in mind I don't play for a living, mostly for fun and some folding money, so I can afford to be persnickety.

 

I don't mind in the slightest having mostly guitar tunes. As long as I can add my own parts--and most songs I can--that's fine. I had to step back and play only certain gigs due to family so that's the price I had to pay. I enjoy singing more than playing anyway, never want a keyboard solo and am fine being a "glue guy" playing rhythm.

[Bobadohshe]

What does the gig pay?

 

 

Yep

[ProfD]

I recall Elton John was a financially successful keyboard band leader.

 

there are other examples, I believe.

Billy Joel, Joe Jackson, Bruce Hornsby, Rod Argent, Donald Fagen, Stevie Wonder, George Duke, Joe Zawinul, Billy Preston, Gene Harris, Harry Connick, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, etc.

 

The list is really long which makes me reach for my Tums whenever I read these passive KB player threads.

[Song80s]

I recall Elton John was a financially successful keyboard band leader.

 

there are other examples, I believe.

Billy Joel, Joe Jackson, Bruce Hornsby, Rod Argent, Donald Fagen, Stevie Wonder, George Duke, Joe Zawinul, Billy Preston, Gene Harris, Harry Connick, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, etc.

 

The list is really long which makes me reach for my Tums whenever I read these passive KB player threads.

 

thank you, ProfD for nailing it.

 

All of the above called their own shots, musically and/or in whatever. part of the business

[elif]

When I was young and single, I would use such opportunities to go to the bar, have a drink or 2 on the band tab and chat up some cute young lady (she would usually end up asking me if the guitar player was single, but whatever....)

We used to call that "working the crowd".

[Docbop]

The bass player tells the keyboard player his girlfriend is taking "lessons" from the drummer. Guitar player hears them and says she make really good french toast. Keyboardist quits, bass player and guitar celebrate Mr Ten Fingers is gone.

[drawback]

A new band gets together.

 

At the first rehearsal, the drummer says he's gonna need 25% more money than previously agreed upon 'cause he's like, married.

 

So then the others have to make the same money.

 

The lead singer can't play an instrument but it's his band. And ya can't play rock without guitar, bass & drums.

 

So they need to lose one guy: who shall it be?

 

In 1970, this was my education in the high finances of rock n roll.

[cp-the-nerd]

After reading some of the posts, it does remind me of a few pet peeves I had.

 

1. Being shuffled off to whatever corner of the stage or practice room was most convenient for the band sometimes to my detriment, and my monitor situation was ALWAYS an afterthought, which leads me to my next point...

 

2. Having no control over--or even a general idea of--the full band sound mix from one song to the next and ONLY being told if I'm too loud and need to turn down. I can't tell you how many times we would finish a song that I felt like I absolutely slayed (or god forbid an entire set in some cases) only to find out from audience members that nobody could hear me playing anything.

 

I haven't been in a band for well over a year now and I've greatly enjoyed my musical self-indulgence. (I recommend a looper pedal to any creative minded keyboard player.)

[timwat]

I always assume this is mostly a rock thing, isn't it?

 

Bands that do a lot of corporate / wedding kind of work, the music dictates that keys are probably the third most important instrument (after bass and drums), at least in my neck of the woods. For funk / r&b / dance kinda gigs, you can pull off the gig without a guitar player when you're forced to - but you'd never dream of trying to hit without a decent KB player.

 

While I can't remember the last time I ran into this kind of phenomena, I'm guessing our rock-oriented brothers run into this a LOT as this kind of thread is a forum regular.

[JimboKeys]

Ask the keyboard player to face the side wall of a good-sized bar stage.

Which also puts you behind the massive speaker stack on that side of the stage.

[stoken6]

In my experience, bands who want to use tracks to avoid funding a keyboard player, will use tracks.

 

Bands who want a keyboard player do so because they appreciate what that will bring to the band's output.

 

I've never had "band problems" regarding my in-ears (I've created a few: of my own: "you guys won't turn down, so I'm taking unilateral steps to protect my hearing"), and some bands appreciate the expanded musical-theory knowledge that I can bring. (I'm not trying to brag, it seems to come with the territory of being a keys player).

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Devil71]

https://www.umop.com/art/kb041.jpg