Advice needed: Crumar Mojo vs VR-730

[TomKittel]

The VR730 action is surprisingly good for piano playing. On par with the Vox in my opinion. I am really picky regarding piano playing with non weighted keys. And the VR730's Hammond sound is much more convincing than the Vox which sounds anything but B3. I don"t own either of the two boards but if I had to decide I would go for the VR730 which could be seen as a Nord Stage 3 compact for people who don't want to spend three grand. Much less features of course but it covers a wide range of sounds including a very acceptable Hammond/Leslie sound.

 

JMTC

[AnotherScott]

I had the opportunity to play EPs on the VR-09 again... my previous experience with the board didn't focus on EPs, and all I really remembered there was being unimpressed. Playing it again and thinking of the context of this thread, I'd have a really hard time recommending it to the OP who counts Rhodes as one of the two most important things he'll be using it for. It's not just the sound being unimpressive, it's also the terribly obvious big velocity-layer jumping. Maybe the playability is better from the VR-730 action, but I have a hard time imagining that the inherent flaws of the EP sample can be overcome.

 

Comparing to the Vox, yes, while neither is top tier, I'd rate the Roland organ more highly than the Vox... but not by as much as I'd rate the Vox EPs over the Roland's. That's just sound, though... when it comes to operation, the physical drawbars vs. the touchstrips and the different actions are other relevant variables in comparing these boards (specifically as B3/Rhodes emulators).

 

If it wasn't for also wanting 73-keys and a LH bass option, the Mojo61 would probably be the best of the three.

 

One could add a Gemini module (or an iPad running B3X and any of a number of decent apps for Rhodes) to get good organ and Rhodes sounds out of anything. From that perspective, it could make some sense to focus most on the action, the one thing you can not change. But you are creating a different playing/operation experience. And while some boards make external MIDI sound sources almost seamless add-ons to their own sound engines, the VR09/VR730 and Vox (and Mojo, for that matter) are not among them. (This gets back to some of what I discussed at the top of post #3076103 at https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3076103/re-new-vox-continental-some-thoughts#Post3076103 ).

 

Non-hammer boards with at least 73 keys and 9 CC-sending drawbar-function controls AND built-in integration for external MIDI sounds (for patch selection and combining internal/external sounds) would be...

 

... Numa Compact 2X (though I really dislike having to use a scroll knob to recall patches!)

... Kurzweil Artis 7

... Hammond SK1-73/88 (it has MIDI zoning... I'm not sure about using its drawbar functions in conjunction with its MIDI zoning function, though)

... Dexibell J7 Combo (it has MIDI zoning, and based on the manual, it looks like you can specify a channel for drawbar transmission, so that should work well)

... Nord Stage 3 Compact (it has MIDI zoning... I'm not sure about using its drawbar functions in conjunction with its MIDI zoning function, though)

... Korg Kronos LS

? and maybe the Fantom 7 lets you specify MIDI CC for 9 sliders?

and the forthcoming Kurzweil PC4-7.

 

But some of these options really get up there in price, too.

[TomKittel]

I'd have a really hard time recommending it to the OP who counts Rhodes as one of the two most important things he'll be using it for. It's not just the sound being unimpressive, it's also the terribly obvious big velocity-layer jumping. Maybe the playability is better from the VR-730 action, but I have a hard time imagining that the inherent flaws of the EP sample can be overcome.

 

I had the VR09 for quite a while. Playing the VR730 was a completely different experience. Huge improvement over the VR09, just incredible. Couldn't believe it's the same sound engine. It not only felt like a completely different instrument but it also sounded different, and yes, much better. This is true for the Rhodes sounds in particular. These are based on the Roland Classic EPs expansion boards after all. The piano playing experience on the VR730 was definitely on par or even better than the spring modded Artis 7 which I also owned for a couple of years. The Artis 7 action with original springs was way too stiff for my taste.

 

JMTC

[AnotherScott]

I'd have a really hard time recommending it to the OP who counts Rhodes as one of the two most important things he'll be using it for. It's not just the sound being unimpressive, it's also the terribly obvious big velocity-layer jumping. Maybe the playability is better from the VR-730 action, but I have a hard time imagining that the inherent flaws of the EP sample can be overcome.

 

I had the VR09 for quite a while. Playing the VR730 was a completely different experience. Huge improvement over the VR09, just incredible. Couldn't believe it's the same sound engine. It not only felt like a completely different instrument but it also sounded different, and yes, much better. This is true for the Rhodes sounds in particular. These are based on the Roland Classic EPs expansion boards after all. The piano playing experience on the VR730 was definitely on par or even better than the spring modded Artis 7 which I also owned for a couple of years. The Artis 7 action with original springs was way too stiff for my taste.

 

JMTC

Oh, and I just remembered. the VR-730 has some additional Rhodes sounds that are not on the VR-09! Maybe that's part of the difference you experienced, too. So yes, not having played that sound (nor play the sounds from the 730's action), I'll rescind my un-recommendation of the VR-730 in this scenario!

 

I agree with you about the original Artis 7 action being stiff, and how much better it is with lighter springs, which turned it from one of my least favorite SW actions to one of my favorite. And since we have the same taste there, I'm encouraged to hear how much you liked the VR-730 action, which others have said felt like the Nord Electro SW, which to me, was too heavily sprung, closer to the original Artis 7 than the modded version.

 

If the VR730's new EPs are a significant improvement AND its action is not heavily sprung, then yeah, I'd see it as much more serious competition for the Vox here, since I do prefer the Roland's organ.

[ElmerJFudd]

The Hammond SKPro is the question mark in this segment. Organ-centric swiss-army knife keyboard.

I"m curious what features they felt were important to match the Stage 3 Compact or VR-730. And what which features they went for to differentiate themselves. Price has to be somewhere in the $2.5k-$3.3k area. That"s my guess.

[AnotherScott]

The Hammond SKPro is the question mark in this segment. Organ-centric swiss-army knife keyboard.

I"m curious what features they felt were important to match the Stage 3 Compact or VR-730. And what which features they went for to differentiate themselves. Price has to be somewhere in the $2.5k-$3.3k area. That"s my guess.

Without having seen the specs and full feature set, it's hard to guess price, but yeah, my gut says $3k. Still not good for the OP, though, since it's only a 61.

[ChazKeys]

I really liked the VR-730 and the additional EPs made a big difference. Nice looking keyboard too with the wooden end cheeks. But like the Nord Electro the action was too heavy and playing organ on it was disappointing. I reckon Roland went for the Fatar as I had both the Electro and the 730 and they felt the same. It"s an odd decision given that Roland presumably put there own keyboard in the 700 and 760.

 

BTW best blues harp I have ever heard on a rompler - just a tad of distortion and Long Train Running was a breeze. So expressive.

 

One other negative about the VR09/730 the effects control was non existent - especially the delay. As soon as you started to dial in some FX it was too much. It was not gradual it was like all or nothing.

 

But I did like the organ it had attitude and the leslie was much improved in later firmware.

 

We don"t know how much the OP want to spend but the new SX Pro might be the answer. It"s looking really good.

 

Remember the old adage - Buy cheap, Buy twice!

[Lyon]

Ha!

 

Well, the OP might be willing to stretch to a Nord Electro 6D if it was head and shoulders above the others in terms of touch and sound. But that's about it, I'm afraid. More expensive (and currently nonexistent?) boards aren't on the menu. :-)

[AnotherScott]

I reckon Roland went for the Fatar as I had both the Electro and the 730 and they felt the same.

It's surprising to not see consensus here, on the VR730 feeling like the Electro (lots of pushback), or having much less pushback (as Tom said, close to an Artis with the springs swapped for the light ones). I hope to get my hands on one some day, because I really don't know what to think!

 

It"s an odd decision given that Roland presumably put there own keyboard in the 700 and 760.

Most likely, they couldn't build it as cheaply as they could buy the Fatar for. Though their are other possible variables... maybe that earllier action added too much travel weight, or for some reason they simply no longer have the ability to manufacture it.

 

BTW best blues harp I have ever heard on a rompler

Yes, it's really excellent, as good or better than anything I've heard on any board regardless of price. Some other sounds I really like on it (especially compared to others at its price) are the harpsichord, vocal choir, and "N trumpet" which nicely turns from a polyphonic sound to a monophonic sound when you want to do a trill... smart!

[gg22]

I reckon Roland went for the Fatar as I had both the Electro and the 730 and they felt the same.

It's surprising to not see consensus here, on the VR730 feeling like the Electro (lots of pushback), or having much less pushback (as Tom said, close to an Artis with the springs swapped for the light ones). I hope to get my hands on one some day, because I really don't know what to think!

 

VR730 keybed feels pretty stiff, similar to the Electro. Not as bad as Kurzweil "semi-weighted" though.