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Yamaha YC61 Announced


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I wouldn't get my hopes up that it's the onboard sim. If it was, Yamaha would take care to not show a Leslie in the video that would take the credit for the sound.
I bet 99% of the viewers don't notice there's a Leslie. Personally, I still haven't seen it. ;-) But that LED light seems like it could be giving us the answer. Has anyone else confirmed David's comment that it is actually possible to be sending the organ through the rotary without Organ-->Rotary being illuminated in the amp section? Because so far, more people seem to be saying the opposite...

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I wouldn't get my hopes up that it's the onboard sim. If it was, Yamaha would take care to not show a Leslie in the video that would take the credit for the sound.
I bet 99% of the viewers don't notice there's a Leslie. Personally, I still haven't seen it. ;-) But that LED light seems like it could be giving us the answer. Has anyone else confirmed David's comment that it is actually possible to be sending the organ through the rotary without Organ-->Rotary being illuminated in the amp section? Because so far, more people seem to be saying the opposite...

I'll fire mine up in a bit and see if I was hallucinating :)

 

I may have misread the manual when it says hitting the rotor speed over by the drawbars overrides the "OFF" state of the Speaker/Amp to thinking that light would remain off.

 

Regardless, this whole thing has now gone into bizarro world

 

Side note: The way and with the music I usually play my YC61 in a band setting, everyone likes the sound. I'm good with that.

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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There's something odd about that video -- as many have noted, there are moments when the front panel settings on the YC61 do not correspond to the sound you hear. Not sure if this was mentioned, but at around 0:54 he seems to push in some of the upper drawbars, yet a second later the sound gets BRIGHTER. Perhaps they just recorded MIDI, and later replaced the part with the YC61 through a real Leslie? Also, there's a clav/e-piano part running throughout the track too, which no one seems to be playing, so quite a lot of editing there. Great performance though.
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there's a clav/e-piano part running throughout the track too, which no one seems to be playing

He plays it at the very beginning. The YC61 does have some kind of looper function, so he may have just played it once at the top, and then they're playing over that loop...?

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Here's my thoughts (and I'm very picky/particular) on the VR-700, VR-09, VR-730, YC-61 and an HX3: (all of which I currently own except the VR-09 which I sold about 4 weeks ago)

 

 

-- Roland VR-700

- BEST action of any waterfall keyboard I've ever played on an combo/organ (huge plus)

- 76 keys (huge plus)

- "Real" drawbars (big plus)

- Organ is OK but it's the same organ since the VK-7 (which I owned back in the 90's)

- A beast (heavy) but feels totally "professional" quality

- Although the VR-09/730 has more "modern" sounds, the 700 has all "the basics" and they are useful

- UI on the VR-700 is clunky but everything works well once you know where everything is

- I even use it to control computer-based VSTs, etc. and the HX3 and it works really well (again, once you learn to navigate the clunky UI)

 

-- Roland VR-09 (VR-09B)

- Same exact organ engine as the VR-700 (again going back to the VK-7)

- Very portable but "plasticky"

- Synth keys are OK but not great for (particularly) piano-type sounds

- 61 keys

- UI is decent and I find it flexible enough for everything

- Organ has upper/lower AND pedals (big plus)

- Latest firmware (which makes it like the VR-09B and VR-730) added a brand new rotary that is significantly better than the previous versions (

 

-- Roland VR-730

- Same as VR-09, except 73 keys (big plus over VR-09) and a bit bigger/heavier (no issue there, still very portable)

- Key action is NOT great - (feels heavy and nowhere as smooth as the VR-700)

 

-- Yamaha-YC61

- Organ is absolutely great - much more realistic organ compared to Roland

- Rotary OK but not has good as the newest VR-09B/730

- Key action is not great - perhaps a bit better than VR-730 but still heavy and not as playable as VR-700

- 61 keys (huge downside)

- Very professionally built (not plasticky like the VR-09/730)

- Absolutely great pianos, E. Pianos, etc. (much better than VRs in my opinion)

- FM synth (one of key reasons why I bought it) not useful until someone develops an editor for it

- Global EQ is great! Let's you quickly adapt to whatever you are plugged into (keyboard amp, studio monitors, etc.)

- Pitch Bend and Mod Wheel (or whatever you want to call it) but they feel horrible!!! (at least they are there!)

 

HX3 Drawbar Expander - Not a combo organ keyboard but listing here as a reference to compare above from an Organ perspective since it is so strong. The Yamaha YC61 by far best compares to the HX3 in terms of realism and "soul". The VRs' organs are totally OK but the YC wins hands-down in my humble opinion. I'm not a big user of the Chorus/Vibrato so can't say which of the above wins but they all sound very similar. Used to play a Nord Stage 2 EX at church and although that was my favorite combo to play live, the YC61 is just as good.

 

In my opinion, all of these are useful instruments. The Yamaha YC61 is my favorite all around given the quality of the organ and "other" sounds but needed at least 73 keys! The VR-730 is a great step-up from the VR-09 just because of the 73 waterfall keys but I just don't like the keybed. The VR-700 is just the best in terms of playability and "feel" but it is very heavy and clunky to use - fortunately it can be a great controller for the YC61!!!!

 

The best possible thing that Yamaha could do is 1) offer at least a 73 key version, 2) lower their prices (Yamaha is not as ridiculous as Nord on pricing but 2nd closest).

 

Hope this is helpful.

-------------------------------

HX3 Expander, Nord Stage EX, XM-2/XMc-2, VR-700, VR-09, 1954 C2 (22H), 1971 C3 (122/710), GSI VB3, GSI Burn

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Nice writeup, OB1. I agree with most of your evals, but even if the VR09 has the "same exact organ engine as the VR-700", I find it not as good because the VR09 overdrive does not compare to the options you have with the COSM on the VR700, and to me, overdrive is a significant part of the organ sound.

 

When you say of the YC, "Key action is not great - perhaps a bit better than VR-730" -- do you mean for organ playing, piano playing, or both? I haven't played the VR-730 myself, though people here have said it feels like the Nord semi-weighted, and if that's the case, personally, I'd take the YC action for having less push back.

 

As for the FM synth, I don't think they ever really called it that. Rather, it uses FM to generate some of its sounds. To say the FM in the board is not useful until someone develops an editor would be like saying the AWM2 in the board is not useful until someone develops an editor for it. They do make an AWM2+FM board that includes editors for both (Montage/MODX), but YC61 is basically a board of presets, and neither its AWM nor FM sounds have any editing to speak of. But the FM engine does allow it to give you, for example, better FM electric piano sounds than other boards that only use samples of those sounds. It also uses FM to generate some synth and bass sounds, and its transistor organ emulations. If you like any of those sounds, then the FM in the board is useful. :-)

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Hi all, my first post on this forum. I've had the YC61 for two months and I'm very happy with it (but I'm mainly a pianist, not an organ player).

 

But I agree that an external Leslie or sim is being used in the video.

 

- No, it isn't possible for the rotary section to affect the organ if a different LED is lit. It can only be applied to one section at a time.

 

- While it is true that you can turn on the rotary by pressing the button on the left side of the keyboard, it doesn't matter because the rotary in the video is already on! It's just being applied to the keys section (which is itself turned off and not producing any sound) and not the organ section, as shown by the LED.

 

- The YC61 looper is limited to phrases of 1.5 seconds long. It's not being used in this video.

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The YC61 looper is limited to phrases of 1.5 seconds long. It's not being used in this video.

Ah. So they probably laid down that track first, and then everyone was probably playing to that (and a click).

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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YC61 owners, try this - pull out just 8' and 4' drawbars and hold down the 2nd 'D' above middle 'C'. If you toggle from slow to fast rotary you'll hear that one of the frequencies detunes almost a semitone. This is the weirdest rotary sim I've ever heard. Sheesh!!!
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yes, there are some strange overtones introduced when engaging the rotary sim, it sounds a bit warbly on fast. we discussed this earlier, i'm working on a video now about the yc and rotary speakers in general and I'll mention this.

 

does anybody else think that there are some strong resonant frequencies with the rotary on? Noticeable on some note ranges, especially with percussion on, got to back off a bit on the expression pedal to compensate otherwise it can be quite piercing on headphones. I would imagine the real leslie would have similar characteristics, so not necessarily an issue, just something I noticed.

hang out with me at woody piano shack
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Here's my thoughts (and I'm very picky/particular) on the VR-700, VR-09, VR-730, YC-61 and an HX3: (all of which I currently own except the VR-09 which I sold about 4 weeks ago)

 

 

Hope this is helpful.

 

Very helpful indeed .. thank you for taking the time to write it.

 

I've been looking for an itemized comparison of those.

 

Edit: I know who you are with that ob1 non de plume .......

 

Obi-Wan Kenobi.... master Jedi no less..Hee hee

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This is the weirdest rotary sim I've ever heard. Sheesh!!!

 

Amen to that !.....

 

You can pick out various individual notes and get some very strange results ( For example, try the top B natural with just a 4' drawbar on fast, and compare it to the Bb next to it ...)

 

Hopefully, Yamaha will be issuing a firmware update soon -- maybe at virtual Namm?

Yamaha - YC61 - P105 - MOX6 - HC2 -- Neo Vent 2
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I took another look at this model just now, to see how it compares to the Reface YC, with which it seems to share a hybrid AWM/FM engine.

 

The Reface YC demos sound great (for the H, A, and Y models; not so much for the V and F ones); I wasn't as impressed by the ones for this model as they focused on its weaknesses vs. its strengths. But I'll still keep either this model or the currently on sale Reface model in mind, as I left my Hammond back in CA.

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1,

Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager

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I took another look at this model just now, to see how it compares to the Reface YC, with which it seems to share a hybrid AWM/FM engine.

Reface YC has no FM. It's organ emulations are sample based (using an AWM variant). YC61 does have AWM2 but does not use it for its organ sounds. YC61 uses a new modeled organ engine for the tonewheel organs, and FM for the transistor organs. So there is no overlap between the methods of organ tone generation between the YC61 and the Reface YC.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Not true; the Sweetwater site lists FM as part of the engine of the Reface YC during their current New Year's Day sale on this model.

 

It seems that thew FM was used for the transistor stuff, as expected.

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1,

Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager

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Not true; the Sweetwater site lists FM as part of the engine of the Reface YC during their current New Year's Day sale on this model.
Interesting. Yamaha's own specs are here:

 

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/reface/yc/specs.html#product-tabs

 

While that provides some ambiguity, absent any further info, I'd trust Yamaha's specs over Sweetwaters, I've seen numerous Sweetwater errors in the past.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Very cool, Jones. The same reply is now in the youtube comments section as well. He says:

 

"I used a handmade mini leslie, just the head, to open the top a bit .. not a 145/147 or other tube or solid state leslie. The sound is all of course from the YC. This is because I received the instrument the same day as the video and I did not have time to go and adjust the internal parameters and modify the sound according to my tastes. Maybe I'll make more videos using internal simulation only. It is really a great machine to have on stage!!"

 

Handmade mini Leslie -- sounds like a mechanical device of some sort.

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Handmade mini Leslie -- sounds like a mechanical device of some sort.

 

Aha! Let's hear it for mini Leslies, then! I guess they have been around a while- I had the Motion Sound version (Pro3-T with it's "tube gurgling" distortion :laugh:) in '99. I know it wasn't "full mini", with no bottom, but the excellent player in the video just used the head part of his.

 

I think a remake of that video both with Vent and YC61 internal sim would be instructive. As much as I like the Vent, I still think there's a difference between it and real Leslie, even FOH. That was confirmed (other than FOH part) when I recently hooked up both at once- 145 on one side and Vent > Motion Sound 408s on the other. I did that to fix the bass shortcomings of the 145's cheap Pyle woofer, but in the middle was a sweet spot indeed (Leslie obsessers do weird things, this thread being proof).

 

I would buy the YC61 in a heartbeat. Much thanks to Jones and jverghese also, as I am not an Instagrammer.

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Vent in a room

vs.

Leslie in a room

 

...results may vary depending in the playback system used on the Vent, but I'd still expect the Leslie to win pretty handily.

 

Vent recorded onto a track or reproduced through a PA

vs.

Leslie miked up and recorded onto a track or reproduced through a PA

 

...I suspect it would not be a slam dunk, especially considering variables like miking techniques and stereo vs. mono.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Yeah, I guess the Motion Sound units could be called mini Leslies. I still have one of those rack units (R3-147) lying around somewhere, maybe I need to bring it out.

 

The Vent is still a good all around rotary unit, but having used the IK Multimedia plugin for some time now, I've kind of left the Vent behind too.

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The springs feel too strong/heavy on the VR-730 and also a bit on the YC. They are all OK for piano and organ but the VR-700 feels very balanced and the VR-09 is just a plain synth keybed (which is fine for "synth").

-------------------------------

HX3 Expander, Nord Stage EX, XM-2/XMc-2, VR-700, VR-09, 1954 C2 (22H), 1971 C3 (122/710), GSI VB3, GSI Burn

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The YC61 organ sounds pretty good here. This is definitely using the onboard rotary :-

 

 

Whilst the Acoustic Samples B5 V3 and IK B3X still have a better rotary (particularly B5 V3) the YC61 sounds better than my old Hammond XK1.

One feature that I"d missed is the YC61 has a built in 2x In 2x Out audio interface which means I could potentially use B3X on my iPad and play it through the YC without needing an external interface. However, I feel the built in organ and rotary on the YC61 will be plenty good enough for me as I"ve been happy with the XK1.

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Mike Patrick's demos are always brilliant -- a very fine player.

 

Notice he has chosen to use the internal rotary in conjunction with chorus (which he turns on near the start of the demo).

The internal sim slow speed is quite usable -- and you can get away with the fast speed as well - if it's used with chorus or vibrato.

 

Used on its own, and fast is not really acceptable at present -- and Yamaha are well aware of that..

Here's hoping for an update soon.... Maybe at 'Virtual' NAMM, later this month?...

Yamaha - YC61 - P105 - MOX6 - HC2 -- Neo Vent 2
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Well if Yamaha improve the rotary that will be great!

 

There are a few things I would love to see sorted in a future update :-

 

1/ Improved Rotary

2/ Organ key trigger improved

3/ Sympathetic string resonance for acoustic piano sounds

4/ Update Clavinet to include all pick ups

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