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New SFX 101 Rant: Processed Guitar as Synth. Anyone?


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I'm having a week I wouldn't wish on a politician, so I really need to distract myself.

 

Working on a new section for SFX 101, comparing Processed Guitar with Synthesis. Anyone interested? It doesn't mean you'll need a Synth, it's more a slightly different angle on Guitar Effects.

 

Let me know . . .

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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I'm in!

Take a listen to this and without reading the comments see if you can guess how I did it. 5 takes, all dual mono tracks for a total of 10 tracks

The signal path is pretty simple.

 

https://metapop.com/opossum-apocalypse/tracks/that-itch/130532

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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I listened, and my only guess was E-bow plus? There's no way I would have guessed the specific instruments, nor the tuning.

 

I've long been on the Quest for Infinite Sustain, and have already worn out one E-bow - the black model with the red label - in the process. I have one of the metallic-looking ones now, along with a TC Aeon, which I bought for experiment's sake. It doesn't quite measure up to the E-bow, in terms of sound nor function. I'm also devoted to Feedback/Sustain effects, like the Boss Feedback, and the Digitech Freqout.

 

Right now, it's snowing out, which is a rare enough occurrence that I'm going to go sit outside in it for a while. Look for something new in SFX 101 this evening . . .

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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You are correct about the E-Bow.

The two instruments were - an ordinary parts P-Bass - fretless, strung with the low 4 strings from a 5 string set and tuned to BEAD. That is one stereo track. I only plucked the open B string.

 

The other instrument is a mutilated "half" of a double necked Framus Lap Steel - 8 string. I put a quieter pickup on it and a big heavy socket I found at the pawn shop for a bridge. It is tuned from low to high GBEADGBE so standard tuning with two extra low strings also tuned in standard tuning. I mostly played B notes with and without vibrato. There is a brief spot where I mis-held the E-Bow and it isn't screaming, that's the clue for a slide guitar. Those are the 4 stereo tracks.

I just tracked everything at once without thinking about it at all.

 

Signal chain for both instruments as follows: Plugged into a Whirlwind IMP 1 direct box. The mic out was plugged into one channel of my interface and straight into the DAW. The DI has parallel in/out jacks, I plugged a Dunlop Bass Wah (hated that thing, just didn't have that "animal sound") into the front parallel output and from the wah I went to the direct input of another channel on my interface and straight into the DAW. The only plugin used was a mastering plugin in the output section of the DAW, a bit of compression and EQ.

 

There is a stereo field with one "normal" sound and one with the wah. But, there are 5 tracks that are "normal" and 5 that have wah on them. With E-bow and wah and piled on it's pretty insane sounding. One of the comments suggested it was a Moog of some kind and an ARP - my introductory comment that everything was analog probably led them there.

 

I did it for a goof. I can see the techniques being useful for something more composed at some point. Proof of concept in a way. Some delay and reverb wouldn't really hurt anything - maybe then you only need 3 tracks.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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I'm having a week I wouldn't wish on a politician, so I really need to distract myself.

 

Working on a new section for SFX 101, comparing Processed Guitar with Synthesis. Anyone interested? It doesn't mean you'll need a Synth, it's more a slightly different angle on Guitar Effects.

 

Let me know . . .

I'd always be interested in your knowledgeable observations and experiences, my Brother. Play on, play through.

 

I'm in!

Take a listen to this and without reading the comments see if you can guess how I did it. 5 takes, all dual mono tracks for a total of 10 tracks

The signal path is pretty simple.

 

https://metapop.com/opossum-apocalypse/tracks/that-itch/130532

Nicely done. Atmospheric, vibey, a li'l creepy and amusing at the same time- I like it. And, yeah, E-Bow would be my guess, or just out-and-out feedback.

 

I've long been on the Quest for Infinite Sustain...

Brother Winston, the ultimate 1000% answer to your Infinituum Sustainquest lies around this corner- it's the latest iteration of my beloved Maniac Music Sustainiac, now battery-powered and mounted on a strap-button bracket instead of a huge stompbox on the floor- no more cable dangling and dragging from your headstock. True actual literal infinite sustain- as long as there's power to your amp (actually, it doesn't require an amp, even a solidbody electric guitar will seem 'alive' and vibrate loudly enough to be heard, it could even be miked), and power from the units batteries- any or all six-strings, hands free, with control over a blend from fundamental to upper-octaves and overtone-harmonics...

 

(link) SUSTAINIAC SUSTAIN-MAN ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC SUSTAINER (link)

 

sman-xd.jpgsman-box.jpg

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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I have 2 products devoted to 'infinite sustain'- an eBow and a Fernandes Ravelle Elite, which has a built-in sustainer system. Amusingly, though, I don"t use them as much as I used to, do to my favoring rhythmic/percussive playing.

 

Still, every once in a while, I still want to travel through space, sooooo...

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ

 

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

 

http://murphysmusictx.com/

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I have 2 products devoted to 'infinite sustain'- an eBow and a Fernandes Ravelle Elite, which has a built-in sustainer system. Amusingly, though, I don"t use them as much as I used to, do to my favoring rhythmic/percussive playing.

 

Still, every once in a while, I still want to travel through space, sooooo...

 

I've set up a couple of guitars with the Sustainer pickups. They are fun! One must be careful to mute strings or it gets all crazy.

I'm not very good with an eBow, I don't use it enough.

 

Years ago they had a booth at NAMM in Anaheim and the guy playing eBow there was jaw-dropping. He had it down.

 

I used to just crank things up and use feedback, I was good at it but it will damage your hearing.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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I've been looking to get a Fernandes Monterey Elite with the Sustainer system for quite a while, just haven't found one locally. Robert Fripp has been using one since the mid-90's, maybe a little before that, and Steve Hackett got one a few years ago.

 

By contrast, we had a Jackson Guitar with the Sustainiac system mounted in it, and it was disappointing at best. New strings, fresh battery, it didn't matter, it never quite delivered?

 

I just got home from finishing up the Christmas decor at a local restaurant - hanging garland with those 'icicle' lights - and doing battle with the packed ice on a neighbor's patio. I'd call it a draw - I managed to break up enough ice that the Sun should do the rest, but hammering away at ice-encrusted stonework with a long-handled edger makes shoveling snow seem like a day off. I hurt in places that shouldn't feel anything . . .

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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My take on acquiring or creating a guitar with a Fernandes sustainer is this: she"ll out the bucks for the full Monty. Better to have all of the system"s options available than just a portion.

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ

 

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

 

http://murphysmusictx.com/

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My take on acquiring or creating a guitar with a Fernandes sustainer is this: she"ll out the bucks for the full Monty. Better to have all of the system"s options available than just a portion.

Personally, I don't like having to dedicate a neck-pickup to that cause- either having to use THAT pickup, and not one that I'd probably prefer, or, hypothetically, adding their neck-pickup to a guitar that doesn't have a neck-pickup to begin with and is cooler without one. One of the reasons that I prefer the physically-vibrating, acoustic-feedback topology of the OTHER sustainer type. Another is the character of actual acoustic-feedback, which sounds better to my ear.

 

While this raises the potential for tracking issues, sheer chaos, for triggered synthesis rigs, I'd think it'd add wonderful character and rich textural nuance, subtle and wild, for processed guitar or bass aiming for quasi-synth, keyboard, and unusual sounds. My limited experience here, such as 'faking' organ sounds with stacking octave-fuzzes, modulation, filtering, Leslie-simulators, wildly misguided multi-effects processors, etc., tells me YES YES YES MORE, PLEASE. Also with using devices such as the EHX B9 and MXR Blue Box. The literally ENDLESS sustain- changing the envelope and decay of the sound- and the morphing octaves and harmonic-overtones really bring out MORE, more depth, character, well, MORE. Deploying ones muting and damping techniques to control the feedback brings further layers of expression and character. Add a volume-pedal or "swell" pedal and you can really process a sounds attack, sustain, envelope, and decay characteristics!

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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While this raises the potential for tracking issues, sheer chaos, for triggered synthesis rigs, I'd think it'd add wonderful character and rich textural nuance, subtle and wild, for processed guitar or bass aiming for quasi-synth, keyboard, and unusual sounds.

 

You raise a critical point, regarding Sustainer systems or effects, and Guitar Synth rigs - one size does NOT fit all. Robert Fripp and Adrian Belew have had great success combining the Fernandes Sustainer with Roland Guitar Synths. IME, hand-held Sustain devices like the E-bow or Aeon are hit-or-miss; triggering the Synth sounds is a particular sticking point.

 

Adding a Freeze, Hold or Sustain effect after the Synth is an easy fix; you're sustaining the Synth sound, not driving it with the Sustainer.

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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The posts above from Winston and Caevan have got me thinking (anybody smell rubber burning?).

 

I've never tried using the eBow with my Fishman Triple Play system. That needs to happen! There is a setting on the eBow that brings harmonics into play, if you slide the position of the eBow to a new spot the harmonics will "bloom".

I wonder how the Triple Play / synths combination will parse that?

 

It further occurs to me that not only can the Triple Play and the guitar be tracked separately BUT - it is super easy to use a direct box to parallel out two guitar signals and record them both. There is a software from Jam Origin that converts audio to MIDI and some players are using that for triggering guitar synths, it seems to work better than it should although not perfect (strings are not perfect!!).

 

3 tracks, 1 with eBow only and two with eBow and different synths. That opens up a world of fun when time comes for mixdown. In theory it would be possible to perform live with a rig like that but I'll leave that for more adventurous folk.

 

And I am in agreement with Caevan that I an not particularly fond of the neck pickup limitations of the Sustainer - I use my neck pickup all the time, occasionally switching so both pickups are on. I prefer my own choices for neck pickups.

In the end, I use what I can and accept that different things make different sounds. I don't have to "love" a sound to find it useful, sometimes the opposite is true.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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While this raises the potential for tracking issues, sheer chaos, for triggered synthesis rigs, I'd think it'd add wonderful character and rich textural nuance, subtle and wild, for processed guitar or bass aiming for quasi-synth, keyboard, and unusual sounds.

 

You raise a critical point, regarding Sustainer systems or effects, and Guitar Synth rigs - one size does NOT fit all. Robert Fripp and Adrian Belew have had great success combining the Fernandes Sustainer with Roland Guitar Synths. IME, hand-held Sustain devices like the E-bow or Aeon are hit-or-miss; triggering the Synth sounds is a particular sticking point.

 

Adding a Freeze, Hold or Sustain effect after the Synth is an easy fix; you're sustaining the Synth sound, not driving it with the Sustainer.

Brother, for "processed" approach, you would love what the Sustainiac Model C or Sustain-Man do; they really, REALLY make the instrument come alive, quite literally and actually jumping and singing and howling and screaming and bucking and kicking and purring and humming in your hands. It can be done with squeaky-clean tones, to boot! And, yeah, endless sustain. It's one thing to read about it or even hear it in a recording, another to experience firsthand. A mad scientist gizmo to be sure, but oh what a laboratory experiment goner terribly terribly RIGHT. Three thumbs up.

 

Add a VFE BumbleBee, a Foxrox Octron, and a Strymon El Capistan, and you've got KevinMiller inna can. ;)

 

Which segues nicely into the theme of uncommon pedals and such used in uncommon ways for "Processed" pseudosynthesis...

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Pardon die doppleposten... ;)

 

And I am in agreement with Caevan that I an not particularly fond of the neck pickup limitations of the Sustainer - I use my neck pickup all the time, occasionally switching so both pickups are on. I prefer my own choices for neck pickups.

In the end, I use what I can and accept that different things make different sounds. I don't have to "love" a sound to find it useful, sometimes the opposite is true.

Reminds me of Japanese artforms wherein imposed limitations present a defining and even inspiring border- Haiku, some ink or paint styles...

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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+3 Caevan and Kuru, I'm a neck man...I can do without the bridge pup before I would ever give up my neck pup. All of my electrics have one. I prefer having both a neck and a bridge and a 3way to boot. But, if I had a use for the Fernandes sustainer sound, I could see having fun with a special guitar set up like the Monterey Elite Winston mentioned... :cool:
Take care, Larryz
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+3 Caevan and Kuru, I'm a neck man...I can do without the bridge pup before I would ever give up my neck pup. All of my electrics have one. I prefer having both a neck and a bridge and a 3way to boot. But, if I had a use for the Fernandes sustainer sound, I could see having fun with a special guitar set up like the Monterey Elite Winston mentioned... :cool:

 

Yeah, it's just another animal entirely. A friend of mine has a guitar with a Sustainer that I can borrow anytime I want to use one. Sort of a one-trick pony but it is a great trick!

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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Another vote for the Neck PU. My Epi DOT is the only Guitar where I regularly use the middle position on the PU switch; on my SG's you could pull the Bridge PU's and I wouldn't miss them.

 

On my Godin Freeway SA, I'll use the 2nd position (Neck HB + middle SC) most of the time, then switch to the Neck PU alone for a little boost when I need it.

 

The Sustainer PU also acts as a Neck PU, or I'd stick with my E-bow.

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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As I recall, the Sustainer in my Elite DOES operate like a neck pickup (it"s been a while), and that may be a difference between the levels of Sustainer systems.

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ

 

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

 

http://murphysmusictx.com/

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As I recall, the Sustainer in my Elite DOES operate like a neck pickup (it"s been a while), and that may be a difference between the levels of Sustainer systems.

 

Yes, one coil is the Sustainer and the other is a pickup. What others are saying is that the included neck pickup falls short compared to their preferred neck pickups.

 

I have been favoring the EMG SA and FT, with an EMG SPC installed and cranked. If I had a Sustainer, I'd move it back enough to mount one of those.

Neck pickup is my primary choice, I do use the bridge pickup in combination with the neck but not that often. I rarely use the bridge pickup by itself.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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...with an EMG SPC installed and cranked.

:love:LOVE :love: the EMG SPC! Works great with humbuckers, too, and even passive pickups from other makers. For clean or dirty tones. I will probably eventually install one in my Les Paul- it's THAT good. Natural, clear, smooth, not hyped, fake, electronic/effect-y/gimmicky. Better than that mid-boost Fender put in those Clapton Strats. HIGHLY recommended.

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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...with an EMG SPC installed and cranked.

:love:LOVE :love: the EMG SPC! Works great with humbuckers, too, and even passive pickups from other makers. For clean or dirty tones. I will probably eventually install one in my Les Paul- it's THAT good. Natural, clear, smooth, not hyped, fake, electronic/effect-y/gimmicky. Better than that mid-boost fender put in those Clapton Strats. HIGHLY recommended.

 

I've got them in Strat and Tele builds and they stay on, all the way up, all the time. Neck "single coil" with SPC is my preferred guitar tone, everything I need is at my fingers.

 

It's tempting to just crank them and put them under the control area. One less knob!!! Knobs are bad. Someday I'll wire up a guitar with just a neck pickup, a hidden SPC and straight to the output jack (the only hole).

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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I've got them in Strat and Tele builds and they stay on, all the way up, all the time. Neck "single coil" with SPC is my preferred guitar tone, everything I need is at my fingers.

Strat-style, EMG 85 humbucker at the bridge, and SA's at the Neck and Middle, with Volume and SPC and EXG modules. I liked varying the SPC, and I really liked it with that bridge 85 humbucker, or the 85 and middle SA. (By the way, the SPC aside, all three pickups on in parallel, 85/SA/SA, is BEAUTIFULLY LUSH, 'super cluck', simultaneously percussive AND pillowy... !! The best clean-tone ever!!)

 

 

It's tempting to just crank them and put them under the control area. One less knob!!! Knobs are bad. Someday I'll wire up a guitar with just a neck pickup, a hidden SPC and straight to the output jack (the only hole).

Cool. Now, me, personally, I'd still very definitely want a volume-control, I use that ALL THE TIME, nearly CONSTANTLY; though a 'blower switch', switching to bridge-pickup straight to output-jack, would be a cool option!

 

 

AND- >cough< All of the above would likely work well for "processed" pseudo-synthesis sounds... :blush::crazy: Would probably be fine with blended 'standard' magnetic-pickups and separate hex-pickup systems for triggering synths...

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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85 is a great pickup. I've got an 81 in the bridge of my 335 but I lowered it down a bit and that seems to improve the tone of all EMGs considerably.

That has my "secret weapon" pickup in the neck - the HB - which was the Steinberger bass pickup.

 

Back to guitar synth world!!!

 

After a few days of on and off messing about with my dedicated recording drive I am almost ready to fire up the Fishman Triple Play. They updated the firmware and software and now it's really easy to run 3 different soft synths in parallel and mix them to taste. I piled a bunch of cool vsts in there, including SampleTank so I have a great selection of sounds.

 

I hadn't pondered using the eBow with the Triple Play but now that has to happen. It's time to hook up the standard pickups too, that would be up to 4 different tones in parallel.

Of course, there is nothing to stop me from copying and pasting the MIDI track into other tracks and dropping other synths in there. At that point it becomes infinite but not on the fly.

 

I'm a little behind on all this fun stuffs.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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Here's some processed guitar, somewhat synth-like. It's from a single, layered, 6.3 second loop of clean guitar, subjected to granular processing & pitch shifting.

 

https://scottbrianfraser.bandcamp.com/track/within-a-distance

Pretty.

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Thank you very much!

You're welcome very much!

 

Kinda~sorta evokes glass-harmonica, tubular bells, "shimmer reverb", without being or impersonating any of those.

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Here's some processed guitar, somewhat synth-like. It's from a single, layered, 6.3 second loop of clean guitar, subjected to granular processing & pitch shifting.

 

https://scottbrianfraser.bandcamp.com/track/within-a-distance

 

Love this! Beautiful and understated!

 

Wonderful sense of being suspended in Space/Time, with shifting sonic textures. I hear, or sense, something like an extremely slow Modulation effect, where the LFO is almost "playing" a melody.

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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Here's some processed guitar, somewhat synth-like. It's from a single, layered, 6.3 second loop of clean guitar, subjected to granular processing & pitch shifting.

 

https://scottbrianfraser.bandcamp.com/track/within-a-distance

 

Very nice Scott, love the mood. When we experiment we learn new ways of expressing. You may have missed my piece, it was quite a few posts above. Just for sh!ts and giggles I'll repost:

 

I'm in!

Take a listen to this and without reading the comments see if you can guess how I did it. 5 takes, all dual mono tracks for a total of 10 tracks

The signal path is pretty simple.

 

https://metapop.com/opossum-apocalypse/tracks/that-itch/130532

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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