DAW PC build

[Throbert]

I build PC"s, not specifically for music production but for Video Editing.

 

I updated my 6 core, i7 CPU PC to Windows 10 and the Firewire card that I have installed no longer works correctly.

 

It is a Driver thing that does not have a resolution for the Firewire card that I have installed

 

As for GPU cards the software that comes with them on CD or via a Download installs lots of cr4p unless there is a hidden option to install the Driver only.

Don't know if you are aware, but Windows 10 only recognizes the XIO2213B chip, TI is the best to use.

RT

 

... on i7 4790k ...

 

I use the HDMI or DVI when I need to get into my BIOS because Display Port isn"t set up to enter and edit, strictly a USB powered display.

 

Actually I also use DVi and 1 screen only,- but I wanna use a larger screen I already own plus 2 smaller ones in future and had Display Port in mind.

You say, when using Display Port, I´d be unable to go into BIOS,- or do I misunderstand your line above ?

 

A.C.

I think he is refering to the USB display AL

RT

 

[hardware]

Display Port Drivers are what I installed to be able to use the AOC USB 3 Monitor.

It won"t allow me into BIOS Screen and nobody can explain this to me, but no biggie.

I just turn my Barrel Fans on 12000 rpm and leave it.

I can always put them in Silent Mode at home after the gig using an HDMI, VGA or DVI LCD.

[Al Coda]

Display Port Drivers are what I installed to be able to use the AOC USB 3 Monitor.

It won"t allow me into BIOS Screen and nobody can explain this to me, but no biggie.

I just turn my Barrel Fans on 12000 rpm and leave it.

I can always put them in Silent Mode at home after the gig using an HDMI, VGA or DVI LCD.

 

 

I guess that´s a limitation of that combo,- DP driver and USB3 screen.

 

I guess, USB devices in BIOS just only work when being set up as boot devices or when updating BIOS via USB device.

IIRC, I´ve seen such option in AsRock Z97 UEFI settings.

But doesn´t mean it works w/ a USB screen.

 

A.C.

[Throbert]

Pre OS drivers haven't booted???

[Al Coda]

Pre OS drivers haven't booted???

 

I cannot speak for "hardware" here,- but I remember, for AsRock Z97 Extreme6 USB3 I had to install drivers,- Intel and AS Media.

 

Are you sayin´, every Z97 mobo supports a USB3 screen w/o the OS up and running ?

Does your MSI Z97 ?

 

:-)

 

A.C.

[Throbert]

Pre OS drivers haven't booted???

 

I cannot speak for "hardware" here,- but I remember, for AsRock Z97 Extreme6 USB3 I had to install drivers,- Intel and AS Media.

 

Are you sayin´, every Z97 mobo supports a USB3 screen w/o the OS up and running ?

Does your MSI Z97 ?

 

:-)

 

A.C.

Haven't tried a USB screen, just wondering, maybe BIOS can only see drives and hasn't advanced

to running screens from USB yet. I remember a technicians USB2.0 to DVI port adapter and assume

it worked in BIOS. Now there's USB 3 to display port adapter that self installs like the older one did

[Rustar]

This might be helpful: If you have Win10 on your current unit, you can install your old SSD in the new system and it will configure itself to the new mb. This was not the case prior to Win10. I read about it and tried it, and it works. Standard disclaimer: back up essential files.

[Al Coda]

 

... maybe BIOS can only see drives ...

 

^^^^^^

THIS (I guess)

 

As I mentioned above,- for my mainboard, when I want to use a USB drive for some UEFI (BIOS) tasks, I had to activate before for UEFI-update or as boot/installation drive.

Otherwise, it were not been recognized at all.

But that might differ w/ mainboard brand,- or is valid for all Z97 ... I dunno.

 

I remember a technicians USB2.0 to DVI port adapter and assume

it worked in BIOS.

 

Well, that´s "only" an adapter and is been recognized as DVI because it´s connected to DVI,- and that is what works in UEFI/BIOS !

 

Now there's USB 3 to display port adapter that self installs like the older one did

 

That´s not only an adapter,- it´s a complete ext. graphics card,- and that´s why it is so expensive and "automatic installs drivers".

I´d wonder if these drivers will work in harmony w/ ASIO/AU and don´t produce lots of DPC latency, clicks and pops.

Only a test would tell !

 

You might remember, in the past, everything was crap except Matrox,- then Nvidia was king of the hill and now Nvidia might be unusable on DAW systems and ATI(AMD) might be the better choice.

These things change all the time and graphics cards are most often the culprit when audio doesn´t work as expected.

So, I prefer the iGPU.

 

Actually I´m looking for a correct and flawlessly working as also reliable DP-adapter,- connecting to the mobo´s single DP-Port and distributing graphics data across 2 or 3 screens (which is supported by Intel iGPU graphics) via it´s 3 DP-port outputs.

Simple: Adapter w/ 1 DP-input and 3 DP-outputs.

Haven´t find one up to now.

 

 

A.C.

 

[Throbert]

No ideal, only need one screen, only running instruments and may be a UAD card in the

future if it makes sense. Might settle into Reaper if i want to lay some down, but not serious

enough and just screwing around. Oh, that Startech adapter is $65 at Amazon

[Jim Alfredson]

As an update to this thread, I bought the components for the Intel machine linked in the original post back in April. I put the machine together, installed Windows, and tested everything as best I could. But I did not put it into service because I had so many projects going on I didn't want to decommission my old computer in the middle of them and risk not being able to finish my work.

 

Fast forward to now, 8 months later, and I finally decommissioned the old computer and I'm typing this on the new one. I'm still transferring some stuff from the old one that I forgot I needed but I have all my main apps installed (Cubase, Wavelab, ProTools, Vegas, etc.) and everything is running like a top. Cubase Pro 10.5 is especially enjoyable. I can get super low latencies now with no problem, no dropouts. And luckily my ancient Firewire card with the TI chipset works flawlessly.

 

My plan is to get the ASUS Hyper M.2 card, which has four M.2 slots and eventually get rid of all my internal spinning drives. I have three 8TB spinning drives for backup, but in the computer I want just M.2 drives for current and active projects.

 

I'm also helping a friend and professional studio owner build a new machine for his studio. He's been a Mac guy forever but is tired of their crap and is moving to Windows. The machine we're putting together is INSANE. i9 18 core processor, 64GB of RAM, all M.2 drives, 7 PCI slots for expansion, RTX2080 for CAD rendering, etc. It's going to be a beast.

[Mike Martin]

I have a very similar system to Jim's which I built late this summer. Like Jim it has taken me a little time to get all my software switched over...etc.

 

My build:

Asus Z390-A

Intel i7 9700k

32 GB RAM

Gigabyte RX5600 XT Video

Asus Thunderbolt-EX3 using adapters for Firewire support

 

It is working flawlessly.

 

I'll add that if someone were interested this setup could dual boot into another OS.

[ABECK]

I recently completed a DAW PC build. I've been a Mac guy since the Performa days, but figured I could build a competitive Windows system for less than a new Mac. (FWIW, I've never built one before, but was certainly comfortable jumping in). I ended up going with a Ryzen 5 3600x 6 core 3.8 GHz. 16 GIG Ram, 500GB SSD for system and apps, 1 TB SATA drive for data.

 

I'm mainly running Digital Performer 10 and the build is perfect for it. Power to spare.

 

Funny story (not so funny), after a few months, I started having problems. Sometimes it would turn on, but not POST or BIOS. Other times it would, but only after a delay. Also, weird MIDI timing issues.

 

I disconnected everything from the motherboard and reconnected. No change. Tried all different configs of RAM sticks, tried different RAM. Nuthin. Removed everything from the case and ran it that way. Nothing. Had AMD replace the processor. Nothing. Replaced the motherboard. Nothing. Removed all drives. Nothing. Well, wouldn't you know, it was a bad power supply. And of course, it was the last thing I considered, because the motherboard LEDs were working, as well as the case lights and fans. At the very least, it's been a great education and now I have a stable machine that cooks.

[ElmerJFudd]

Under performing or underspec"d power supply, brown outs, inadequate service in an old home - all do very strange otherwise inexplicable things to PC behavior.

 

Google search reveals there are those who have successfully run the alternative desktop OS with AMD Ryzen CPUs.

[Jim Alfredson]

The PSU is often the most overlooked component in a computer. I use exclusively Seasonic power supplies because I've never had a single one fail on me. In fact, I've only owned three in 14 years because they are so reliable. The only reason I buy another when I do a new build is if the connectors change. Otherwise I just keep putting them in the new computer.

 

The one in my old machine that I just retired was purchased in 2011 and is still running flawlessly. That machine has been completely updated three times; new mobo, new CPU, new RAM, etc. but the PSU has remained the same. I bought another for this new build only because I'm giving the old machine to my kids to use for gaming. I could've easily just transplanted it into my new build and it would work just fine.

 

Don't skimp on the PSU.

[RABid]

When I specked my last DAW my main concern was the HD and external HD connections. At the time it was early but I made sure I had USB C connections. For me that was more important than the processor. Well, that and fast memory.

[Al Coda]

The PSU is often the most overlooked component in a computer. I use exclusively Seasonic power supplies

 

 

And these "Corsair" which are manufactured by Seasonic.

The better one´s are,- or at least were.

 

 

The one in my old machine that I just retired was purchased in 2011 and is still running flawlessly. That machine has been completely updated three times; new mobo, new CPU, new RAM, etc. but the PSU has remained the same.

 

In my even older Win XP machine,- Intel Pentium 4 dual core D945 on ASUS P5WD2 Premium w/ 4GB Mushkin Red Line PC800 RAM,- all o/c to 3.862 GHz,- there is such a Corsair 520W PSU w/ modular cable management.

The machine works like a charme ´til today and never needed any upgrade at all.

It runs Reason 6.5, Studio One 3.5, actual Reaper 6.x and NI Komplete 7 as also a ton of other plugins w/o problems.

 

I also have a Cougar 650W modular which never failed as a spare.

 

In my Win7 DAW 4HU rackmount build, there´s a Seasonic Focus Plus 550W, modular, 80+ Platinum and I´m very satisfied w/ that build.

2 M.2 NVMe, 2 SSD SATA, a WD Velocy Raptor 300GB and optical drive too, AsRock Z97 Extreme6.

Great machine for S|C PCIe based ext. 1HU rackmount XITE-1 interface/ DSP farm.

Up to now, I can throw at it everything and have problems to bring it on it´s knees.

I don´t do the 200+ tracks movie scores but want to run every VST/VSTi I want/like,- and it does.

 

B.t.w., that´s the reason why I hated Arturia for making the V-Collection 8 upgrade Win 8.1 -10 (or higher) only.

Setting up a new DAW or upgrade OS for your´s well running one, just because of a software manufacturer´s upgrade, makes no sense when your actual DAW runs so well.

It´s a nitemare and waisted investment,- money and time,- and I better practise keys than setting up new machines/ new OS too often.

OTOH I hate I don´t get he VC 8 updates for the older VC-7 plugins now.

 

No wonder, PSU is extremely important.

No pro electronic gear can live w/o proper power supply.

 

For a Win10 machine w/ only 1 SSD, 1 HDD (WD Velocy Raptor 300GB), 3.6GHz Intel quad core, 16GB G.Skill Ripjaws V DDR4 3000 on AsRock Z390M Pro4,- I´ve found a very good 400W be quiet pure power 11 CM modular 80+ gold, which is a great value and doesn´t make problems since I did this build.

 

Mainboard wise and as a former ASUS enthusiast, I became a AsRock fan.

These mainboards are very good quality and always offer excellent features and great info about ressources sharing components in their manuals.

This was at least the case w/ the 2 mainboards I own.

 

 

A.C.

[Al Coda]

When I specked my last DAW my main concern was the HD and external HD connections. At the time it was early but I made sure I had USB C connections. For me that was more important than the processor. Well, that and fast memory.

 

Fast (enough) RAM is important, but I don´t favourize ext. HDD or SSD at all, regardless which connection.

The computer´s connections won´t become your issue at all since the controllers in ext. HDD/SSD cases are the weak and/or unreliable point.

 

Also,- for recording audio via AD/DA, I still prefer a real HDD because the SSD´s trim feature will never kick into the audio recording.

Rendering audio from previously created MIDI tracks using VSTi and VST plugins to SSD is o.k. because you can repeat the procedure if necessary.

I agree, it´s rare, but it can happen.

 

I don´t stream samples from ext. drives at all, I prefer internal M.2 NVMe x4, p.ex. for NI Komplete Collector´s Edition and I´m satisfied w/ M.2 NVMe x2 for loading Reason stuff or other devices using samples but don´t STREAM.

SATA SSD is still fast enough for OS as also hosting VST plugins and presets folders as well as all then other (project´s) data.

 

I use ext. drive connections just only for backups.

 

 

A.C.

[Tom Williams]

He's been a Mac guy forever but is tired of their crap and is moving to Windows.

I've waited 25 years to see someone actually write that sentence.

The machine we're putting together is INSANE. i9 18 core processor, 64GB of RAM, all M.2 drives, 7 PCI slots for expansion, RTX2080 for CAD rendering, etc. It's going to be a beast.

[Tom Williams]

Well, wouldn't you know, it was a bad power supply. And of course, it was the last thing I considered,

To steal from George Carlin, I'm rather glad that it was the last thing you considered. Considering something else after solving the problem would have been weird.

[KuruPrionz]

He's been a Mac guy forever but is tired of their crap and is moving to Windows.

I've waited 25 years to see someone actually write that sentence.

 

Just a matter of which crap one prefers really. My IT guy gave managed to get Outlook running again but OneDrive refuses to do anything and he gave up for now. There is no virus or malware.

 

I'm sure he'll fix it. In the meantime, I'll use somebody else's computer to transfer the file I want and call it good.

 

All is well at home, at the moment. It has not always been OK. The PC vs Mac thing is absurd, I've used both for decades and both will give you crap.

 

There truly is no end to crap where computers are concerned. Just a matter of where it gets smeared.

 

Sounds like an amazing build though, I'd use it!!!!!

[ABECK]

Well, wouldn't you know, it was a bad power supply. And of course, it was the last thing I considered,

To steal from George Carlin, I'm rather glad that it was the last thing you considered. Considering something else after solving the problem would have been weird.

 

LMAO - fair enough. I should have said it was the last thing I HADN'T yet replaced. (except the case)

[Markyboard]

Where are you guys at with OC and/or Turbo mode? Good? Bad? No advantage? I remember reading you want steady clocking speeds but I"m wondering if this really matters for DAWs and VSTs. For example does Word Clock change when the CPU speed changes?

[Theo Verelst]

The whole of the I7 architecture with multiple clock speeds per multi processor and memory is complicated to understand, even in basic form, and I only under Linux know of tools that can influence the clocking behavior (not to say there aren't adjustable (CPU) speed governors or Mac / Windoze, I haven't used them or searched for them) for economy or highest average clock speed or max temperature management (for instance during video encoding with all threads running full).

 

I use an overclocked I7 12 threader which is officially overclokable (unleashed and un- something else I forgot) on a P9X79 Mobo with 4 memory channels up to 4.5 GHz. It is used daily (recent windows or Fedora Linux) and regularly for heavy DSP jobs which turn the processor to about 60 degrees C, in spite of having the larges multi heat pipe 2 fan huge Zahlman CPU cooler and huge case fans. Putting all 12 threads to over 4GHz under full load of for instance ffmpeg (video coding) will make it much hotter than 64 degrees, which I consider the max I want to use. For the last, I don't know 7 years that has prevent any problems with the mother board and it's supply capacitors, so the machine never crashes or blue screens, even though it considerably overclocked. You don't see cloud nodes at high clock speeds for similar reasons, and should be aware of cooking electronics components when asking full CPU power for instance for special app that use certain CPU facilities.

 

I prefer using quasi fan-less power supplies, the fast machine and my 10 years 24/7 first gen I7 server machine have those, and they are good thus far, expensive but quality and: no noise at all! The server (I type mostly on and serves pretty much all my web stuff, acts as daily internet station, Netflix viewer, media server, distributed audio server, video and audio editing machine, and pretty much everything else up to light HD video processing also has a very low noise level due to using a Sharkoon special golf ball pattern fan blade pair, one as replacement for the first Intel, then Zahlman CPU cooler and one in very low RPM mode as case cooler.

 

T

[Markyboard]

Does it improve music software performance? For example does it allow for lower buffer settings without audio pops or allow for running more VSTs concurrently?

[Theo Verelst]

I prefer the know my latencies are *fixed length*, normally on a non-real-time OS fighting faulty samples (processing time longer than required for the next sample buffer) running on x86 processors with given software will fail on short buffer lengths. It is quite possible running at max clock speed governor (which doesn't really do that, but that's another story) just like knowing how to prevent page errors in the virtual memory management will give less spurious processing errors.

 

It is harder to understand the internals of the large internal architecture Intel processors in terms of guaranteeing a certain real-time behavior, even if the maximum load and/or temperature is not in sight at all. The virtual memory management that's in the architecture in normal mode requires some course grained action of the OS at some points, and the rather course grained access to the memory banks makes a lot of ordinary programming constructs often inefficient on cache failure at one of the 3 or 4 levels of caching. That whole is taking into a multi tasking OS which has it's own potential latency traps, and so taking some more buffer size makes the whole more predictable. I happen to know Steinberg promises sample accurate processing, which at least is reliable, but using significant CPU power of sound processing requires longer buffers, so when using heavy Linux DSP I use very large buffers which aren't pleasant anymore for live tools.

 

It is possible to have one-sample (+intrinsic DAC buffering) with different chips, usually not running with a multi tasking operating system, for instance specific DSP (like my self made digital synth) or FPGA running a synthesis machine (like some FPGA experiments I've worked with, not programmed by myself, mostly), but that large back-ward compatible Intel CPU line simply isn't laid out for anything but sort of a super computing pipeline with hardly real-time guarantees in the thedesign.

 

Memory progress isn't helping much either, the granularity of reading and writing to the main memory is pretty course (many bytes at the time, waiting for memory page changes, etc.) and even though the clock speed og the memories goes a bit up with time, the latency in clock cycles doesn't really come down, and even goes up as well. So sure a modern PC might have some improvements, but honestly, for running a live plugin and recording some audio tracks, ancient equipment might beat it, except for the sheer size of memory and drives and maximum peak processing power!

 

T

[Markyboard]

OK - thanks.