Muad’Dib Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 What does everyone think about Behringer"s cloning of vintage synthesizers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Hughes Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 All your responses will pretty much be one of these reasons: Pro ⢠Those synths haven't been produced in decades, so there's no ethical reason that Behringer shouldn't be able to clone them ⢠Those synths haven't been produced in decades. They cost a fortune when they were new, and now I can get them for a few hundred dollars. Con â¢Â Behringer has a long history of stealing other company's intellectual property (Boss, Ebtech, Arturia) and has lost in court (at least Boss). I'm not going to support a crooked company. ⢠Behringer can do what they want, but I'd rather spend my money with the companies who made the original product, or who are doing something new. ⢠Uli Behringer/Behringer the company have behaved in so many reprehensible ways (threatening to sue Dave Smith, the Peter Kirn "cork sniffer" thing) that I will not support them. â¢Â Behringer has a long history of making cheap stuff that doesn't last. There's no way I'm going to waste my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 I'd rather spend my money with the companies who made the original product, or who are doing something new. dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bif_ Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 What does everyone think about Behringer"s cloning of vintage synthesizers? Probably a dozen threads on this topic. It's like :deadhorse: :deadhorse: Quote Kurzweil Forte, Yamaha Motif ES7, Muse Receptor 2 Pro Max, Neo Ventilator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mike Metlay Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 What does everyone think about Behringer"s cloning of vintage synthesizers? My immediate thought was: "What does it matter what we think?" But I realize that that's a meaningless answer to anyone who hasn't had dinner with Uli Behringer and gotten to know him even a tiny bit, as I have. Ulrich Behringer has always been ruthlessly efficient in the process of getting what he wants. Anyone with a knowledge of his business practices and history will know that he laughs in your face when you call him a crook. But what a lot of people don't know about him is this... Everyone in the music tech industry, with very few exceptions, is also a player, whether a dabbler or a pro or somewhere in between. Chuck Surack of Sweetwater Sound plays sax. Jim Odom of PreSonus plays guitar. I play chrome-plated noseflute. And so on. Uli Behringer is a keyboardist and a synth fanatic. The very first product he ever built at home was a synthesizer. (He has never published the specs or more than a photo of the finished unit, so we have no idea what he stole to build it. But I digress.) Everything he has done up to now, and I do mean everything -- from his cloning of designs to his building up a fortune to his worldwide acceptance to his wholesale purchase and absorption of companies that do what he needs done -- has led up to what we are seeing with his synthesizers. All he has ever really wanted to do was to have the ability to make all the synths he'd ever loved in his life, and market them with his own name on them. Parenthetically, that's why Behringer's synths have a much higher standard of build quality than the rest of its gear. If any other Behringer product falls apart in a month, Uli shrugs and sells another one. If a Behringer synthesizer, even a cheapass one like the Craze, develops a reputation for anything other than Uli's often stated goal of "twice the features for half the price", someone at Behringer will be hung upside down and bled like beef cattle as an example to others. A fair bit of the delays in waiting for the many synths he has announced is that he will not let anything ship when it's not right, and is willing to grant his engineers the time to polish everything to perfection. That doesn't hold for any other Behringer product, not even the fabulously successful X32 mixing consoles. And that is why I say that it doesn't matter what we think, it doesn't matter if he couldn't sell ten units -- it is what Uli wants and therefore it is what Uli gets. One wonders what the music tech world would be like today if he'd grown up playing a Les Paul; probably Gibson would be a MUSIC Tribe sub-brand by now. Quote Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) Musician, Author, Editor, Educator, Impresario, Online Radio Guy, Cut-Rate Polymath, and Kindly Pedant Editor-in-Chief, Bjooks ~ Author of SYNTH GEMS 1 clicky!: more about me ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job ~ my book ~ my music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 Suing Dave was a **** ****. He didn"t threaten to do it ... he did it. He lost but he still did it. https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2018/06/20/that-time-behringer-sued-dave-smith-instruments-20-gearslutz-users-for-a-quarter-of-a-million-dollars/ Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Paxton Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 I keep wondering how much longer it will be until this topic joins politics and religion in the list of verboten topics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docbop Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 Those classic old board the rights to them are still owned by someone and Behringer has to get permission from them to clone them or someone else will sue and end up with all the profits. So if a good clone and a good price is fine by me, if I really wanted a real vintage board then I find one and take out a load and maybe have to throw in one of my kids to pay for it. So its a personal choice clone and keep living or real vintage and sign over my life. Same thing in the guitar world buy a off brand copy of your favorite guitar or go to vintage guitar shop and have your wallet surgically removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad’Dib Posted December 8, 2020 Author Share Posted December 8, 2020 I keep wondering how much longer it will be until this topic joins politics and religion in the list of verboten topics... That"s up to Craig! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad’Dib Posted December 8, 2020 Author Share Posted December 8, 2020 What does everyone think about Behringer"s cloning of vintage synthesizers? Probably a dozen threads on this topic. It's like :deadhorse: :deadhorse: Sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzpiano88 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 I keep wondering how much longer it will be until this topic joins politics and religion in the list of verboten topics... You mean bringing up how Google and Samsung ripped off the invention of the smartphone from Apple? Quote J a z z P i a n o 8 8 -- Yamaha C7D Montage M8x | CP300 | CP4 | SK1-73 | OB6 | Seven K8.2 | 3300 | CPSv.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I keep wondering how much longer it will be until this topic joins politics and religion in the list of verboten topics... That"s up to Craig! Close, but no cigar. dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad’Dib Posted December 9, 2020 Author Share Posted December 9, 2020 I promise never too bring this up this topic ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardEric Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I enjoy their products. Someday I'd like to own a spendier board like a Moog, Prophet or even Kronos. Quote dreamcommander.bandcamp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I don't think it's a bad topic - it's just that it's been discussed enough times that Jonathan pretty aptly summed up where folks tend to land on the matter. The challenge is whether we're able to talk about these things without getting ugly and personal about it. Some topics are easier than others - mac vs. PC, anything but Hammond is just a clone, we have a few that can get excitable. Politics and religion - really difficult. Re: Behringer, a lot of us have our opinions, and our perspectives. I have my view, and for me it's not just about being a consumer because I teach this topic as my career. I also don't have any intention of evangelizing my opinion to anyone else, so I stopped commenting on this company a while ago. Quote .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad’Dib Posted December 9, 2020 Author Share Posted December 9, 2020 I don't think it's a bad topic - it's just that it's been discussed enough times that Jonathan pretty aptly summed up where folks tend to land on the matter. The challenge is whether we're able to talk about these things without getting ugly and personal about it. Some topics are easier than others - mac vs. PC, anything but Hammond is just a clone, we have a few that can get excitable. Politics and religion - really difficult. Re: Behringer, a lot of us have our opinions, and our perspectives. I have my view, and for me it's not just about being a consumer because I teach this topic as my career. I also don't have any intention of evangelizing my opinion to anyone else, so I stopped commenting on this company a while ago. I must have missed this being discussed before? Or I forgot about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I promise never too bring this up this topic ever again. No worries. Someone else will. Uli himself used to drop by MPN/KC occasionally...but I think he way prefers Gearslutz. dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad’Dib Posted December 9, 2020 Author Share Posted December 9, 2020 ... and I prefer being here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nursers Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I keep wondering how much longer it will be until this topic joins politics and religion in the list of verboten topics... That"s up to Craig! Close, but no cigar. dB Quote The Keyboard Chronicles Podcast Check out your fellow forumites in an Apple Music playlist Check out your fellow forumites in a Spotify playlist My Music: Stainless Fields Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I give about as much respect to Behringer as I do to Kenny G for his arrogance to overdub himself over a 30+ year old Louis Armstrong recording in an effort to lend himself a false legitimacy. All your responses will pretty much be one of these reasons: Pros Cons Pretty much says it all. I can add that you don't repair Behringer products, you replace them. Repair expenses can often exceed the original cost. Most repair shops will no longer accept behringer repairs because they got tired of fighting for compensation for warranty work. For that reason, music stores will not accept used behringer products for consignment. In a nutshell, I refuse to patronize a chronic plagiarist who sues internet critics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad’Dib Posted December 9, 2020 Author Share Posted December 9, 2020 I meant Dave, I had Dave in my head, and wrote Craig! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I hate to admit it, but the guy seems to have a manic obsession for vintage synths that goes beyond an obsession for money. What else can explain the cloning of the Wasp? For that one I have a certain guilty admiration - what happens when the ultimate gear nut also owns a factory in China. I bought a DM12 but have stayed away from the clones... so far. If that UB-Xa ever sees the light of day, it will be hard to resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin Funster Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 If youre anti behringer then you gotta be anti TC electronics and TC helicon. Its alot of work being pure. Quote FunMachine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Emm Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 What does everyone think about Behringer"s cloning of vintage synthesizers? I've stopped thinking about it because there's nowhere else for the topic to go. Being an e-musician will always be fraught with alternating squeegasms & decapitations. I once had two of a great synth I all but married. One was a soul mate & workhorse until it died in a house fire while on loan. The other was one of the whitest elephants I've ever owned, always croaking like a 50-pound toad. Same company, same model. I put a skull decal on it and used it at home only. And so it goes. Buy the name hardware instruments you KNOW are going to address your knob-tweedling needs. Then take up a 2nd computer for software instruments. A modest laptop or Mac Mini can be your Omnisphere or cluster of useful freeware. Even wheezing old proggers mix and match. As Woody Harrelson said, "Its time to nut up or shut up!" Quote "I like that rapper with the bullet in his nose!" "Yeah, Bulletnose! One sneeze and the whole place goes up!" ~ "King of the Hill" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 If youre anti behringer then you gotta be anti TC electronics and TC helicon. Its alot of work being pure. I was anti TC before Behringer bought them. TC North American support sucked. It"s probably improved since the purchase. Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I have a tc electronic PolyTune3 and a Behringer Pro-1. That's all I can say. The product registration process for the Pro-1 though was a real pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konnector Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I agree with all the pros and cons about Behringer cloning products. Haven't bought any of their stuff, but it's not because of the right and wrong. It's more about the idea that in this day and age, I want to be able to save patches! Most of their clones don't have any patch memory. That's a big miss for me, but maybe a good thing as it's probably saved me some $$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewImprov Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I really have mixed feelings about this. I do think that Uli and Co. have made some very ethically dubious moves. On the other hand, I used a (Behringer owned) Midas M-32 mixer on several hundred live shows up until about 2 years ago, and it's great, a quality mixer at a pretty wonderful price that allowed my sound company to compete with some of the larger companies in our area. And I will likely get one of the 2600 clones when they are available, as the ARP 2600 is one of the desert-island synths I have always wanted, but could never afford. Quote Turn up the speaker Hop, flop, squawk It's a keeper -Captain Beefheart, Ice Cream for Crow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Motif Max Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Depends on the product to be honest. If it's something that's basically long-dead and/or out of patent, I have no issue with it. If it's something like them cloning the Arturia Keystep into the Behringer Swing, I don't like it. I don't own anything from that company actually but it's because I usually go for nicer products in the pro audio realm and I haven't ever been able to justify getting a straight synth for anything. I don't mind him buying up/out specialized companies to have access to the tech - I mean, that's fair in my opinion. If you can afford to do that, why not? It's a perfectly legitimate way to do things. What does everyone think about Behringer"s cloning of vintage synthesizers? My immediate thought was: "What does it matter what we think?" But I realize that that's a meaningless answer to anyone who hasn't had dinner with Uli Behringer and gotten to know him even a tiny bit, as I have. ... Wow, thanks for the insight. Quote Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000 Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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