Neon Vines gave me a headache

[Muad’Dib]

I"m not one too bash anyone, and this is not my intention. Just my opinion, but I started watching a video of her giving a tour of her studio, and after a minute and one ad. I had too stop, because it was hurting my head. She was going on about the acoustic panels on her wall, that had art on them. Then the video went to an ad YouTube"s doing, but when the video resumed. She was talking about this Neon Sign of her YouTube name and I went in my head: 'Oh My God! I don"t care!' That"s when i just stopped, and had to leave. I don"t care about the panels or your name, just get onto the gear.

[ElmerJFudd]

This is business, advertisement, endorsement, product placement, etc.

 

[video:youtube]

[Muad’Dib]

Thanks for posting the video! ð

[Markyboard]

This is business, advertisement, endorsement, product placement, etc.

 

So is this (just for you Paul):

 

[Muad’Dib]

Thank you Mark! ð

[KuruPrionz]

No knocks either, I wish her all success.

 

I've watched and listened to a few of her songs on YouTube. She is a skilled multi-tasker beyond any doubt. She is having fun, that is good. She is beautiful, that never hurts.

 

But, I don't find the lyrics interesting (yet, she may come up with something). And I think she sings pretty OK at best. I don't get the impression that she will ever be one of "those" singers - the ones that capture my soul.

 

So I end up not caring either.

 

Was just conversing with a good friend - she is 30-ish and a local performer/songwriter. She sings, plays guitar and is a go-getter. She would hire me to sit in with her back when there were gigs to be played and places to play them.

 

We are going to do our annual Christmas song video - second year. She wants to do River by Joni Mitchell.

We started talking about Joni, we both love her writing and singing. We agreed that if the Blue album came out now, people would be gobsmacked.

 

If there is a scale of 1-10 for singer/songwriters I would put Joni Mitchell at 10+ and Neon Vines at a solid 4 or 5.

That said, there are many I would rate at 4-5 that have been quite succesful. There is more to "talent" than talent.

[Dr Mike Metlay]

For those of you who haven't read PATCH & TWEAK with Moog yet and shat themselves over one interview and the pictures therein, research an up-and-coming young musician that goes by Mack. She's a really nice kid, incredibly friendly and photogenic, and is working on her first full-length album as we speak... but she has a personal studio with $250,000 in gear in it, minimum, with most of that being an insane number of vintage synthesizers and drum machines... and she's not old enough to drink.

 

To be fair, she built a couple of them herself, and she seems to know what she's talking about when it comes to studio gear... but I don't think I'd be quite as offhand talking about my Pultecs if I had some. I wish her every success, but the tired old cynic in me wonders how she was able to get into this setup when she started at 14...

[Muad’Dib]

250,000? Are you kidding me? I had my mother give me $800.00 for my Casio Digital Piano, plus she bought me my Moog Theremin. I had too wait for a Roland D-20 to go down in price, before for I bought it!

[ElmerJFudd]

I got my Casio MT-65 at Bamberger"s Department Store for my birthday present.

[Muad’Dib]

Nice!

[area51recording]

Now I know why my studio failed. I didn't have my name in lights over my monitors. Grrrrrrrrr........it's ok, I can be taught......NEXT time......

[Sam CA]

...I don"t care about the panels or your name, just get onto the gear.

 

 

I don't care about those stuff either, but maybe someone's redoing their studio and looking for that kind of inspiration? Also keep in mind that for a niche channel she's got a pretty good size audience in general and by now she has a pretty good idea of what works and what doesn't for her channel. I wouldn't be surprised if THIS is her music career altogether. I don't know her so that's just a wild guess.

[Muad’Dib]

...I don"t care about the panels or your name, just get onto the gear.

 

 

I don't care about those stuff either, but maybe someone's redoing their studio and looking for that kind of inspiration? Also keep in mind that for a niche channel she's got a pretty good size audience in general and by now she has a pretty good idea of what works and what doesn't for her channel. I wouldn't be surprised if THIS is her music career altogether. I don't know her so that's just a wild guess.

 

 

Honestly, I don"t know why this should have bothered me? Was it the way she was presenting it, or was it the fact that I was watching this early this morning, and only had one cup of coffee, and a bowl of oatmeal?

 

I watched videos of Claudio aka. Dr. Mix, and enjoyed the whole experience of him building his dream studio! Maybe, because his studio is what I would expect a serious musicians studio too look like.

[timwat]

My hat is off to any young muso who is both making music and hustling.

 

This NV vid is full of referrals and links to the gear she uses and recommends. Which seems to me to be all about the monetization. I know very little about this new YT world of influencers and crazy mad social media money, but if it's going to be increasingly difficult for young musos to carve out full-time careers (and this is what our current trajectory - even pre-COVID - would suggest), then it's all about aggregating all the different ways to monetize what you love - or at least monetize some of the things you can tolerate doing to fund thing things you love.

 

This forum tends demographically to be old, male, and biased towards classic rock, blues and jazz, right? Perhaps this vid is aimed at sort of another target audience.

[Muad’Dib]

I agree!

 

Also, maybe I"m angry with myself, and taking it out on someone else! Who has done nothing wrong?

[KuruPrionz]

This forum tends demographically to be old, male, and biased towards classic rock, blues and jazz, right? Perhaps this vid is aimed at sort of another target audience.

 

Generally speaking, this is spot on. As is the rest of your post. And, I do fit the description.

 

At the same time, in the end the song and the singer is everything for me. As a songwriter, I LOVE a well crafted and clever lyric and the singer does not have to be a virtuoso to tell the story but it doesn't hurt - as long as they feel it.

I do get a sense that Neon Vines is struggling with keeping everything going while trying to tell the story. No knocks on her, she's got a lot to do!!!!!

 

If we are talking current, Billie Eilish and her talented brother have much better material than the subject of the OP in my opinion.

And Billie is a much better singer than Neon Vines, more compelling - she connects with my soul.

 

I'm really open to whatever is going on and I get what Neon Vines is doing with promoting gear, they probably send her stuff to promote. Good for her, she's carved out a solid niche.

And she has a style, I like that. Add in that she presents herself as a solo artist and that's awesome as well.

 

If this is the extent of her career as a musician she has done well in this day and age. It is a tough sell.

 

Joni Mitchell had a lucky break - Judy Collins had a hit with Michael From Mountains or whatever it was called. Then she covered Joni's Both Sides Now and had another hit. That opened doors and Joni was ready for it.

Blue is one of those monumental records, it hit hard even though there was no hit single. AOR was the big deal back then, not anymore.

 

Court and Spark had songs that made AM radio, Joni was able to tour and hire great players. Miles of Aisles is as good a live album as anybody has done, ever.

Would we all know about Jaco without Joni hiring him to play on her records and tour with her? Maybe but probably not nearly as many of us would have heard of him. Weather Report never made it to that same level.

[Sam CA]

...

 

Also, maybe I"m angry with myself, and taking it out on someone else! ...

 

There you go! Forget about the color scheme and focus on her energy and accomplishments.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

That particular video appears to have been made as a promotion with Sweetwater, (who was providing the prizes). My guess is that her gear is mostly from them, and that she got a pretty good break in price.

 

I first listened to her after a thread on the forum a number of months ago. Whatever one thinks of her voice and type of music, it is very obvious that she has "paid her dues," in practicing her craft. It must have taken a LOT of time to get to the point of being able to sing AND move the hands just right to keep the show going.

 

One of my grandsons is producing some EDM type music. Not really my favorite genre, but I encourage and support. He is autistic, also plays trumpet in the H.S. Bnd (and shows pretty good skills there), and he enjoys what he is doing.

 

She LOOKS like she is enjoying what she is doing. I'm 79, not one who would likely be considered as a fan, but I do subscribe to her channel on YT. Yes, she looks good (but dresses rather modestly for that type music), but more important, she has some serious skills and I won't ever play with that much skill. The name choice, well, it does attract attention a lot more than her real name (which is on some of her early videos).

 

All is well.

[ElmerJFudd]

I don"t have any issue or trouble with what she does whatsoever. But I do see it for what it is. I wouldn"t watch this for musical inspiration. But if I wanted to see how the latest home producer gear might be used, seems like she gets her hands on just about everything.

[David Emm]

This forum tends demographically to be old, male, and biased towards classic rock, blues and jazz, right? Perhaps this vid is aimed at sort of another target audience.

 

I'm biased towards more than that, including Harry Partch. I got lucky historically and hit a certain Venn point between multiple things, including unique moments of freaky glory like Godley & Creme's 3-LP epic "Consequences." I still fit the base profile more than not, though.

 

There is a clear line between people who started on piano/organ and those who started with synthesizers. The sweat factor is different. My arrogance says you should labor over your acoustic instrumental skills enough to understand the basics you want to manipulate with synths & studio gear *later*. My arrogance can naturally STFU, but I can generally tell who started out by woodshedding with a guitar and who started with Push. No judgement implied, just noting a difference in feel.

 

I'm closer to being under the dirt than above it, so my opinions on monetization can safely be seen as dangling from a rooster's chin.

[Docbop]

When I worked at the church we had quite few of the big name HipHop and Pop artist as members and I talk to them now and then. The all basically said you don't make money off you music anymore that it's all about product endorsements, artist models, and creating and selling your own products. So I see young people in the biz like this women trying to pay the bills in this day and age so affiliate links and sponsors are the replacement to clubs want you to play for exposure.

 

As for the gear acoustic treatment is part of putting together a studio so I don't see the big deal that she had artistic panels. The neon light I've seen that before can't remember where, but issue with that is the electrical buzzz from the neon. In this covid world DIY market is blowing up not only sales but even companies making products geared towards them. You have a lot people with their little home studio trying to come up with some great beat they can sell to a big name artist for a quarter million dollars. It's scary that just a beat someone can make that much but beatmaking is big business. Same with people creating media music libraries they sell for flat fee to TV and other content creators. Big market created out of the copyright industry getting nasty so royalty free libraries are new source of paying your bills.

 

I do like the desk Neon Vines has and could use a good chair so who knows maybe she's make a couple dollars if I use one of her links.

[Muad’Dib]

They way she presented her self, and what she was talking about made me stop.

[Reezekeys]

What is she supposed to do? Send demo tapes to record companies in hopes of getting a "deal"? Find an agent and book a tour? If I could sit at home and get paid to make videos of me screwing around with my gear you better believe I would be doing exactly that. More power to her. I'm probably as old a fart as anyone here; I don't seek out her kind of music to listen to, but I've seen a few of her vids and she's a real musician, not a computer mouse jockey cut & pasting canned "midi chord progressions" and drum loops together. Knocking her because her lyrics don't hold up to Joni Mitchell's, are you kidding me? Is this is not electronic pop music or EDM? It's for people to party & dance to, not sit at home with an incense stick burning and poring over lyrics while contemplating one's navel.

 

BTW - is that "neon" sign a real neon sign? I thought she said it was done with LEDs â so no buzzing, I'm guessing.

 

And PS - yes, give me free gear and I will most definitely give you a shoutout on my video! Hey Spectrasonics â if things don't work out with Herbie Hancock, I'm available!

[ElmerJFudd]

What is she supposed to do? Send demo tapes to record companies in hopes of getting a "deal"? Find an agent and book a tour? If I could sit at home and get paid to make videos of me screwing around with my gear you better believe I would be doing exactly that. More power to her. I'm probably as old a fart as anyone here; I don't seek out her kind of music to listen to, but I've seen a few of her vids and she's a real musician, not a computer mouse jockey cut & pasting canned "midi chord progressions" and drum loops together. Knocking her because her lyrics don't hold up to Joni Mitchell's, are you kidding me? Is this is not electronic pop music or EDM? It's for people to party & dance to, not sit at home with an incense stick burning and poring over lyrics while contemplating one's navel.

 

BTW - is that "neon" sign a real neon sign? I thought she said it was done with LEDs â so no buzzing, I'm guessing.

 

And PS - yes, give me free gear and I will most definitely give you a shoutout on my video! Hey Spectrasonics â if things don't work out with Herbie Hancock, I'm available!

 

What is the path to an audience and the big time now? It doesn"t appear to be paying your dues dragging your shit to the local bars and clubs. You have as good a shot at getting onto The Voice. Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, Tik Tok - you don"t even have to leave your house. Build your base of home bound fans through the internet. It"s been changing gradually, but that speed has increased with the lock downs this year. Like digital pornography offers STD free 'sex', online concerts offer virus free 'crowds'. Virtual community.

 

The bedroom producer is a rapidly growing scene, its intertwined with DJing and beat making. If you sing or make connections with a viable singer - make hit records from across the pond or down under and never meet in person. The world closer together but never further apart.

[KuruPrionz]

Knocking her because her lyrics don't hold up to Joni Mitchell's, are you kidding me? Is this is not electronic pop music or EDM? It's for people to party & dance to, not sit at home with an incense stick burning and poring over lyrics while contemplating one's navel.

 

While you have a point (up to a point), in the world of popular music there are Legends and there are Flavor of The Month performers - far more of the latter than the former.

 

100 years from now somebody will probably sing Blowin' In The Wind at an open mic night.

For all I know, somebody may even play a Billie Eilish song, at least there is a story there.

 

2 years from now Neon Vines will be forgotten as servings of vapid drivel smother her forgettable songs in a sugar gravy of meaningless but endless nothing. EDM has been around for some time now, who can you name?

I can't think of anybody really. Popular music of all styles has been pablum served up by the Trendfuck Rodeo for a long time, have you listened to a country(rappin over dope beats y'all) radio station lately?

Or as John Prine once said "Nothin' but a big bunch of Nothin."

 

If you write lyrics that anybody can write, delivered with beats that anybody can loop, being a solid and talented soloist on a Roli Seaboard won't get you a job as a waitress at Denny's.

 

If she's just getting along while working for her PhD in Viral Mutation or Electronic Engineering then she's chosen a great path for success.

And I have and do wish her all the best. That doesn't make her especially good and certainly not timeless, it just means I am sort of nice and try to be optimistic regarding the humans who will inherit this world soon enough.

[KuruPrionz]

Thanks to Elmer J Fudd, I've now watched the video.

It is well done, as a gear geek I enjoyed seeing that setup and having it explained.

 

There is a YouTube distress thread posted in Craig's forum and rightly so. I've checked it out for a couple of days.

The revised Terms of Use are pretty heinous.

One of my thoughts has been that you could use YouTube and Fakebook to drive traffic to Vimeo and Patreon.

 

It appears that's what NV is doing and I'm sure many will take that route.

I've avoided the entire social media thing for the most part, have been trying to figure out if there is anything I could present with sufficient merit to bother trying.

Being antisocial by nature makes that a bit of a challenge.

 

Maybe cartoons?

[Mighty Motif Max]

It's all the idea of brand/channel image/recognition, marketing, and like others have mentioned, product placement. It's not the same thing as John Williams giving us a studio tour. The Neon Vines sign is part of the channel recognition thing - have it in all your videos as you work, and people won't forget your channel name.

[dalpozlead]

I felt exatcly the same as Paul Kondig, stoped after the 2nd sales pitch.... that felt very unnatural... couldnt handle.

[Muad’Dib]

I felt exatcly the same as Paul Kondig, stoped after the 2nd sales pitch.... that felt very unnatural... couldnt handle.

 

Thank you dal! Someone finally gets it!

[Biggles]

Anyone who starts with ..... wassup guys ..... is not being creative, and innovative.

 

This old fart hits the stop button in a micro second and she caused that reaction.