Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

How To Improve Tempo Stability?


Recommended Posts

I'm looking for tricks/tips/suggestions to improve tempo stability - for both solo and group play.

 

When I play solo, I often find myself speeding up. This occurs regardless of whether I am playing classical or popular music. It occurs even though I use a metronome every day for both technical exercises and while playing thru songs. I think my speeding up is related to trying to play louder: I often notice speeding up when I finish playing the head and move into improving over chords, and hence want to play a little louder - less commonly, I will find myself slowing down as I try to play more quietly. What seems to help most is being aware and conscious of my tendency to speed up, and reminding myself (every couple of bars) to maintain even tempo.

 

I also notice the 7-piece soul dance band I play with will commonly speed up as we play thru a tune. Again, I think this is related to volume - when the horns come up, the rhythm section will play a little louder, and I hear the tempo speeding up. I have tried to address this with the group: sadly, too many others say they don't notice any increase in tempo.

 

Any suggestions for how I can improve and play more solid tempos? Thanks.

J.S. Bach Well Tempered Klavier

The collected works of Scott Joplin

Ray Charles Genius plus Soul

Charlie Parker Omnibook

Stevie Wonder Songs in the Key of Life

Weather Report Mr. Gone

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 34
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

record your playing in a SEQ. And later analyze it.

 

When you make chord changes, and/or melody, see if you are exactly on the new measure or exactly on the beat.

 

Hearing the midi beat click helps, but that can sometimes distract, if too loud.

 

Review your recording, play each measure where there is a new chord/etc.

 

I am also a smidgen early on chords etc. My Kronos SEQ shows the beat ticks. For a 4 beat measure, I think there are 474 ticks [ going by memory] in a measure.

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's something I've had to deal with all my life. In order battle it without a metronome, I have to make a conscious effort to play slightly behind the beat. This isn't like dragging (which slows things down) but a different kind of feel, and takes some practice.

 

When it comes to bands I swear every drummer rushes a bit during a fill. I have analyzed hundreds of classic songs in Ableton, and even the most solid in the pocket tracks exhibit this tendency more often than not. The best resume the previous tempo afterwards, making it undetectable when listening. I won't say anything about the others :laugh:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lot of rock and jazz lives with variable tempos, and a lot of variable means "it speeds up" on a whim. I used to be a really horrible, rusher.

 

One thing fixed it for me.

 

Playing a lot of funk and R&B, with drummers and bass players with solid, greasy pocket. That straightened out my rushing azz fast.

 

What it did was make me way more aware. Aware of my body below my waist - no kidding.

 

When I rush, I'm playing from my waist up - in my head and in my hands.

 

When I'm in that greasy pocket, I'm playing from my waist down - hips, butt, quads, and man bits.

..
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My traditionally minded answer would be to take on a firm practice regime with a good rhythm source like a well working drum computer or trustworthy backing tape or something. When I was very aware of my desire to become like Vince Clarke and be able to play riffs myself without a sequencer/arpeggiator halfway the 80's I would practice with a decent drumcomputer to first get tight with basic patterns, then some more complicated elements and after that some of the main styles, both by playing drums on the keyboard, using guitar or organ (no delay) or using piano and quick sounding synth pathces. Discipline didn't kill me and about 7 years after I started to play keys I got a rhythm control I was ok with to begin with. It's very easy to develop a "style" that's actually just a form of rhythmic error, something a good teacher would for instance be able to correct. If you played a long time (maybe longer than I) it's easy to develop feels that aren't tight and believe they're a good norm, but in a band it might turn into the wrong music soup easily: there's only one feel to begin with seriously and that's tight.

 

In the defence of the problem, digital instrument can contain complicated sound elements which can make a rhythmic feel hard to discern and control, compare with a real instrument (piano, non-digital organ, drums) to get an appreciation for that difference. Througg amplification and production it's still harder, because that can create a lot of mess, including all kinds of all pass filters changing phases of low notes, defying playing (or at least listening) accuracy.

 

T.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm very similar. If I can locate the pocket, my whole body gets involved. That helps me stay with the rest of the band.

 

Playing along with sequencers helped me to gain a better sense of tempo. They are unmoving, so I have to be as well.

 

That to me is better than working with a metronome, as it feels more real world than just a click

 

I was working with a band in the studio, and the drummer had an issue with playing a shuffle. We tried just using a click, and it was horrible. So, I programmed a basic groove into my Korg M1, and we used that as the click. Worked like a charm

"In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome.

So God helped him and created woman.

 

Now everybody's got the blues."

 

Willie Dixon

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seeing as you already use a metronome to practice...

 

Make sure you're breathing. Pay attention to tempo, consciously relax and experiment with sitting further back on the beat. And like Tim said, the better time of the players around you, the more yours will improve. Also applies to the music you listen to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Much ground already covered here, but I'll add: take some time to notice how big the "beat" really is. Meaning, listen to the range of places you can play your note or chord, and still have it feel like it's on the beat. I literally picture this--it's a horizontal gray line with caps on the ends--but however you process it is fine. Then practice placing that note or chord in a consistent place in the beat, over and over. Practicing hitting on the front end (most of us don't need any practice at this), then in fat middle, then at the tail end. Practice this until you can do it with intention, consistently.

 

If you can do that, you can control whether you're rushing or not, and also adjust for different grooves as you need.

 

We did a livestream this weekend, and what I noticed about my own playing is that all this time off has me way on the front edge of the beat again, all the time. Mental note for me, and some woodshedding to ensue for sure.

Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material.
www.joshweinstein.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Try tapping your foot in half-time especially on faster pieces. This keeps your feel more relaxed and reduces the tendency to speed up. In some cases halving the number of counts will simplify how things fall in more complicated pieces.
C3/122, M102A, Vox V301H, Farfisa Compact, Gibson G101, GEM P, RMI 300A, Piano Bass, Pianet , Prophet 5 rev. 2, Pro-One, Matrix 12, OB8, Korg MS20, Jupiter 6, Juno 60, PX-5S, Nord Stage 3 Compact
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've always had a huge tendency to rush. What's worked for me in a group setting is to follow the hi-hat to stay locked-in with the drummer vs. the kick/snare. More notes and shorter intervals, so less room to go off-track. Likewise, when I'm playing an intro alone, I'll count off 1/8s in my head instead of 1/4s to be more consistent. I stand and use pedals, so I use head movement as a physical cue.

 

EDIT: As I was typing my response, @Shamanczarek posted something similar (and more concise). :)

Nord Stage 3 HA88, Nord Stage 3 Compact, Casio CT-S1, Radial Key Largo, Westone AM Pro 30, Rolls PM55P, K&M 18880 + 18881, Bose S1 Pro, JBL 305p MKII, Zoom Q2n-4K

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are also plenty of teaching methods/exercises/famous people making tutorial videos. Check out Victor Wooten's thoughts, Dan Weiss's Patreon, Hal Galper/Mike Longo/Barry Harris, etc.

 

Related to those, you'll probably find that playing some drums, or at least working on tapping out some rhythms, will be necessary. I need to pull out my drum pad and play some rudiments. Wish I could have a kit in my current place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You might try something like this....use the metronome, start with it clicking on all beats in, say 4/4. Once that feels pretty good, play the tune with it only clicking on 1 and 3 (or 2 and 4). When that's going well, set it so it only clicks on the first beat of each measure. This will probably be the point where you feel things getting a little off kilter, as you really have to start relying on your internal sense of time more. You can take it out from there as far as you like, having it click on the first beat of every OTHER bar, and on and on. Sometimes when I'm feeling particularly masochistic I'll try to have it click on, say, the third beat of every other bar or something like that, but that falls apart for me REALLY fast.....
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm looking for tricks/tips/suggestions to improve tempo stability - for both solo and group play.

 

Dance while playing. Even while sitting you can dance in your chair.

 

Watch any drummer with good tempo stability. They're dancing in place. Every bad drummer I worked with did not dance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm looking for tricks/tips/suggestions to improve tempo stability - for both solo and group play.

 

Dance while playing. Even while sitting you can dance in your chair.

 

Watch any drummer with good tempo stability. They're dancing in place. Every bad drummer I worked with did not dance.

 

This is truth.

Speeding up in and of itself is neither good nor bad. It is losing control of the tempo that is bad.

On the other hand, flatlining the tempo of a song in a way that kills the energy is also bad. I don't hear that so much with live music but recordings fall victim to the seductive ease of tracking over loops at steady tempos and the song becomes boring rather quickly.

 

Take a break, listen to Midnight Rambler by the Rolling Stones, the live version off the Get Your Ya Ya's Out. Then imagine how turgid and flaccid it would sound if it kept to a single tempo all the way through.

Keith and Charlie are TIGHT on that groove, slow or fast. THAT'S what matters, everybody in the pocket.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Two suggestions:

 

1) Get the book Beyond the Metronome

 

2) What we're hearing in our heads when we're playing is very important. If all you're hearing is the usual negative self-talk, you're likely to speed up through anxiety.

Try to pre-hear more of the music and feel the groove in your body as much as possible.

I'm not a master of this yet, but it has helped me immensely.

 

Darren

www.dazzjazz.com

PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation.

BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano.

my YouTube is Jazz Organ Bites

1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. MAG P-2 Organ. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Moog Matriarch. KIWI-8P.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did write this earlier, but forget all these "you beaut" tips and tricks and adopting this method or that method of practice.

The SoundBrenner Pulse, is the size of a wristwatch and simply taps your wrist with a pulsing beat, you do not need to change anything about your play :) I had great difficulty with timing, especially on ballads and slower tunes. Not any more :)

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Definitely play against a drum track. BTW, if you want to try this without acquiring yet another piece of gear, there are drum tracks available on You Tube that you can try. Search on "latin drums 140bpm" and you'll end up with something useful I'm sure. Same goes for rock, waltz, swing, etc.

 

I was lucky........I learned to play keyboards on a 70's vintage Wurlitzer spinet organ that had a grand total of five (count 'em, five) built-in drum beats (including "march" which was never used) and I acquired a great feel for playing along to a beat. Now if I could only improvise solos..........

 

Lou

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Working to the DAW helped me a lot. It was an exercise from Damien Erskine that fundamentally improved my time. The DAW doesn't lie, and you can zoom in to see just how exact one's placement is. You start by only playing on the beat, in quarter notes. Note placement should be EXACT on the barline. Then 1/8ths. Then four 16ths. Then three 16ths: first three, second three, 1-2-4, and 1-3-4. Then groups of two: first two 1/6ths, second two 16ths, then 1st and fourth. These are played for 60 sec intervals, with counting so you know exactly where you are - not just playing a feel. Start with single notes, then play scales, arpeggios, etc with that rhythm.

 

Working with the DAW I quickly learned what adding or removing fractions of a beat felt like. Over several months, I was able to feel even 1/32 note deviations from the click and then lock back in. Some of them were harder than others and working it to where I felt and could count it helped a lot. This work on metronomic time helped a lot with knowing what was happening with band "groove" time, and all of a sudden I knew who was rushing or dragging.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One metronome routine that I think is essential is to hear the click as the backbeat i.e. beats 2 & 4. If you can make the metronome groove, you should be able to lock in with anyone who has a good pocket.

www.dazzjazz.com

PhD in Jazz Organ Improvisation.

BMus (Hons) Jazz Piano.

my YouTube is Jazz Organ Bites

1961 A100.Leslie 45 & 122. MAG P-2 Organ. Kawai K300J. Yamaha CP4. Moog Matriarch. KIWI-8P.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The SoundBrenner Pulse, is the size of a wristwatch and simply taps your wrist with a pulsing beat

 

Does it zap you with a high voltage shock if your tempo gets out of whack? :hugegrin::idea:

 

I've toyed with making this purchase, but never pulled the trigger.

 

This discussion reminds me of something one musician once told me: she said that tempo issues reflect personality. In other words, if you tend to rush, you are probably someone who is impatient generally.

 

Frankly, I thought this theory was silly. But at the same time, I am in the category of people who are more likely to rush than slow down, and there is no question I am a pretty impatient person. So maybe there is something to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a topic very near and dear to my heart and I have posted on it in the past. I have been playing jazz piano semi-professionally for years with decent chops, harmonic and melodic skills, but whatever "talent" I have is undermined by a very poor sense of time. Both my internal metronome, and my time sense with the band is weak. When the stars align (right tempo, bass and drums locked in) I can swing, but it is usually a struggle. I have spent countless hours with a metronome and Aebersold and have come a long way but I finally gave up last year. The frustration of losing time was just not compensated for the moments that my playing shines, not to mention the endless hours of practice necessary to play at that level. I simply cannot play at the level I would like. I like Dazzjazz's comment about negative self-talk and anxiety and that definitely plays a role in sabotaging my playing (uh oh, where's 1; am I lost? I am now!). Having read this post I just ordered "Beyond the Metronome" and hope I will find some tidbits there. I'm also curious about the Soundbrenner Pulse; I read some bad reviews that say it does not keep a steady beat and the vibration is more of a buzz than a click, thus not very precise. I wonder if others have experience with this.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm also curious about the Soundbrenner Pulse; I read some bad reviews that say it does not keep a steady beat

I'd be very surprised if any electronic device made after about 1970 didn't keep extremely good time. I'm guessing those reviews are based on experiences like. "I was playing with perfect meter and the damned Soundbrenner was wandering all over the place" similar to "Why is everyone on this freeway driving in the wrong direction except me?"

:idk:

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

-Mark Twain

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...