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Pick Up the Pieces- solo unaccompanied funk piano


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At exactly quarter note = 101.37, the click stays in time perfectly with the piece the entire way through, with very little if any "slop" in the time feel. So, I'm guessing it's sequenced - that's a stretch huh? :laugh:
That does explain the complaints about lack of feel. I'd be (mildly) interested in hearing a talented pianist performing that arrangement live, with much less reverb. I bet it would have better feel/swing.

 

The fact he used a sequencer in and of itself doesn't mean there's no feel. In my experience it's when you quantize your playing that the "feel issue" becomes apparent. I've edited many a midi track on a CD project - fixed clams, moved some notes, changed a few notes to other notes, added a few here & there and deleted a few here & there â I do this because I can! I rarely record on an acoustic piano because imo, most of the time my virtual one sounds as good or better on a recording than what's in the studio (and notice I said "imo" and better on a recording - not live!). That means I have the opportunity to record my performance in a format that makes almost any kind of editing possible â and I'll admit to taking full advantage of that opportunity. I also hope I have the skills and taste to know what edits to make in order to get that great take that sounds like it was played. And that almost always means - no quantizing, ever!

 

So I begrudge no keyboard player for using a sequencer to record, then polish up a track they're going to present for public consumption. Having said all this though â it does kinda sound like there was quantizing involved in Brian's rendition of PUTP. Most telling are the 16th note triplets at various spots - so perfect and even. Of course it's definitely possible he plays like this â hearing a classical player with really good technique isn't exactly a rarity â but the reverb does make the note attacks smeary enough to raise some doubts in my mind. Still â as long as he intended the piece to sound like this and is happy with it, I wouldn't begrudge his choice of tools or methods to make it.

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My guess it's that it's not quantized as such, but rather that what we're hearing is the result of transcribing from the handwritten sheet music into Finale or Sibelius or MuseScore or whatever (i.e. to create an uploadable/salable piece of sheet music), then loading a piano VST of one's choice, and hitting play. So the result is a perfect mechanical rendition of how the piece is notated, rather than the way a live pianist would feel it.

 

Just my two cents ('cause that's how i'd do it).

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Th guy's simply not very good in jazz funk or blues. No reason not to play it! For me the pleasure of listening to an arrangement of a funk piece is very limited, and contrary to the idea that feeling should be part of the music experience, which is lacking, besides it sounds like he can't hit the right notes, annoying. But maybe, that's for copyright reasons, thought others deal with that issue less annoying.

 

T

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At exactly quarter note = 101.37, the click stays in time perfectly with the piece the entire way through, with very little if any "slop" in the time feel. So, I'm guessing it's sequenced - that's a stretch huh? :laugh:
That does explain the complaints about lack of feel. I'd be (mildly) interested in hearing a talented pianist performing that arrangement live, with much less reverb. I bet it would have better feel/swing.

 

The fact he used a sequencer in and of itself doesn't mean there's no feel. In my experience it's when you quantize your playing that the "feel issue" becomes apparent. I've edited many a midi track on a CD project - fixed clams, moved some notes, changed a few notes to other notes, added a few here & there and deleted a few here & there â I do this because I can! I rarely record on an acoustic piano because imo, most of the time my virtual one sounds as good or better on a recording than what's in the studio (and notice I said "imo" and better on a recording - not live!). That means I have the opportunity to record my performance in a format that makes almost any kind of editing possible â and I'll admit to taking full advantage of that opportunity. I also hope I have the skills and taste to know what edits to make in order to get that great take that sounds like it was played. And that almost always means - no quantizing, ever!

 

So I begrudge no keyboard player for using a sequencer to record, then polish up a track they're going to present for public consumption. Having said all this though â it does kinda sound like there was quantizing involved in Brian's rendition of PUTP. Most telling are the 16th note triplets at various spots - so perfect and even. Of course it's definitely possible he plays like this â hearing a classical player with really good technique isn't exactly a rarity â but the reverb does make the note attacks smeary enough to raise some doubts in my mind. Still â as long as he intended the piece to sound like this and is happy with it, I wouldn't begrudge his choice of tools or methods to make it.

 

We don't know that it's been sequenced. It's also very well possible it's just playback of digital notation. Which explains the unflinching tempo and lack of variety in the note on velocities. But who knows. No one is saying we don't use modern tools to deliver this sort of material - just that this thread got into talking about lack of funk feel in the performance. If sequenced, not taking the time to make choices about what to leave alone what to fix etc. would explain why.

 

A few months ago I stumbled on another "heady/brainy" arranger who records live performances of his material. It was generally liked by our group here, but a deeper look at his playing style and other examples similarly brought up a discussion of "feel" and our tastes. He plays his stuff on acoustic and records in real time and still gets a tough time from folks about feel and taste. :laugh: KC is a tough bunch!

 

[video:youtube]

 

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Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Yeah, a tough bunch. I wonder if this discourages some members from posting their own music which would be a shame.

 

Oh, I'm sure that's the case. And I agree that is a shame. Best way to deal with that is to be supportive when folks do. :cheers:

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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No one is saying we don't use modern tools to deliver this sort of material - just that this thread got into talking about lack of funk feel in the performance. If sequenced, not taking the time to make choices about what to leave alone what to fix etc. would explain why.

 

In my experience, no amount of midi editing in a sequencer can change the overall feel of a performance - i.e., turn a non-funky classical player into a funk god. My post was more a response to the notion that because it's sequenced (or might be), that fact in and of itself means it would lack "feel." Obviously, a sequencer can be used as a straight recording device and if you're a funky guy or gal and nail the take, all you have to do is leave the track alone and you're done. My man just doesn't have the funk â and he's daring to present us his take on a classic funk song that's a classic mostly because, imo, it plainly embodies all the elements of what I believe most folk would say are the ingredients of funk â the interlocking parts, the syncopation, etc. To me, he gets points for the attempt! And for doing it his way. But I do think the quantizing, the restricted velocity range (sounds that way to me â could just be a not-so-good piano sample set), the heavy reverb, etc. all work to take away any notion of "funky", at least to me. I can only speculate that it was either 1) his choice, he wanted it to sound like that, or 2) he needed to do it like that because he wasn't happy with his live performance of that arrangement. Or maybe 3) he really thinks the track is an example of totally bitchen killer funk. Who knows? There's probably a #4, #5, etc.

 

As I said in my previous post here, I like using the tools I have to fix â not create any kind of "feel." On my bucket list is to experience a day when I do a piano track, pull up the sequence, play it through and realize it needs no edits! I fear that day will never come. Thank you Dave Smith!

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The guy never claimed it was funk. It is just a "solo piano arrangement" on his video. The thread title took it elsewhere. The playing is great, the arrangement is sometimes adventurous; if you walked in somewhere and someone was playing this just like this, you'd stop and notice the bad-ass at the piano, and maybe even make a thread here about it.

 

It's kind of like the "you really have to live the blues to feel it right" discussions. Really? Because WC Handy most certainly never lived anything close to "the blues," and yet almost all the elements we think arose in cotton fields, came right out of his conservatory-trained head--often at odds with the actual practices he was inspired by.

 

I do think this is at the very least quantized, and possibly entirely "fabricated" with multiple layers and takes. For one thing, if you can play that well, you are not going to fetishize your score, you are going to show yourself playing. For another, he very specifically says "arranged by," not "performed by"; I think if you were the pianist playing that, you'd note it. And for a third, the one vid I found of him where he DOES say "performed and arranged by"....he's pretty clearly not playing what we're hearing. So I'm thinking his product is more the reduced scores, than his performance of them.

 

[video:youtube]

Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material.
www.joshweinstein.com

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I realized I had not clicked on the link included in one of the earlier replies (inconsiderate me), where the poster offered examples of their own playing to demonstrate a funkier feel. Out of appreciation that someone would put their money where they're mouth was, I went back to listen and it's gone- I guess because of the 'tough crowd" thing and maybe a bit of surprise that this thread seems to have legs (mostly due to FUNK being in the title).

 

Excellent work by the crack team of KC Forensic Musicologists! :) But the time /feel aspects didn't really interest me about the piece (although neither did they keep me from enjoying and appreciating it)- I was more taken by the

harmonic content. I've never been criticized for playing overly stiff or "white" but I have caught myself playing too much from the head, at times- which definitely affects time and feel. I have such a good imagination that I can imagine that I'm playing some really groovy sh*t, when the playback makes me cringe because I was half right lol.. almost as if I have 2 sets of ears..

 

Let me pose this scenario: You're playing a solo piano gig, no BT's or drum loops etc., when someone comes up and asks, can you play something funky What would you do? What can you do? Do you throw up your hands and say sorry, that's not possible?

 

Hypothetical situation because I don't recall ever being asked that, other than the maddeningly vague "can you play something we can DANCE to?"..I know the NOLA guys like Josh wouldn't be asked that, because they would already be doing it. I think the B3'ists would jump on it too, even without a pedal board. But that's the kind of discussion (and examples) I was hoping to elicit.

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Sorry, that was me. I removed it as I did not want the thread to become about my performance...and, it was clear that there was a bit of a misunderstanding based on the title of your thread. I thought you were looking for examples of piano players playing solo funk piano.

 

Here you go: (not 'funk' as a genre per say, but showing how 'play" can be used at the quarter note level to develop a funky 'feel')

 

 

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/TcZi3Jbk420

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Let me pose this scenario: You're playing a solo piano gig, no BT's or drum loops etc., when someone comes up and asks, can you play something funky What would you do? What can you do? Do you throw up your hands and say sorry, that's not possible? .

 

It"s definitely possible. A big part of being able to play 'funky' or groove based unaccompanied solo piano is making the connection that the absence of sound, played in time, is as powerful as whatever you"re playing.

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I have no problem playing Thrill is gone, Ain't gonna bump no more, Party Party, I never loved a man, Love don't live here anymore, One nation under a groove, or God knows what other interesting and varied somewhat or quite funky pieces on the acoustic or *proper* digital piano. I think some are talking about that challenge given certain special limitations like being a not great funky player, no proper Blues experience, being timing challenged or simply too dull a person ?

 

It's not a race to play a funky piece, even if you're no Russel (Ferrante), though of course at some point it can put you in or out a certain player's pecking order, but so what, it's also so supposed to be fun, not something to write a book of laws about!

 

T

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I play this tune solo piano sparse like in this video. I heard Monty Alexander do a so piano version too. We play a funky tresillo in the left hand

 

[video:youtube]

 Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."

 

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My Left plays tresillo like 'Cantaloupe Island' only it shuffled or swung sixteenths.

 

Here"s another take, fancier left hand than I do :

 

[video:youtube]

 Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."

 

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late to the thread. Played the OP video, right away I thought it sounded like one of those old school player piano rolls? One of those ones that has about a thousand notes going on?

 

I guess that's why I like it. I learned a few arrangements from my Grandmother's player piano rolls, they weren't a huge jump from Scott Joplin.

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My old lead sheet

 

That's interesting, your chart is double-timed. I would be counting half as fast â that's where the beat is, at least that's where I feel it. Looking at your first line, the parallel fourths are not what the original horns do â but a lot of people play it that way; is this deliberate? I'm puzzled because Roger Ball's horn arrangements are imo some of the most singular and hippest in r&b/funk. The parallel fourths are a step away from that, imo â but if that's how you like to play them then by all means do your thing. Also the phrase at your bar 2 beats 3 & 4 are not as the original version's either.

 

Both the other versions you posted stray far from the original's actual parts but those guys make it extremely obvious they're rearranging the tune. Your version is close enough to the original to put a little doubt in my mind â it kinda sounds more like a wrong transcription than a different take on it â sorry! If it makes you feel better, Fred Vigdor (AWB's sax player for the last 20-something years) thought it was parallel fourths until Roger straightened him out!

 

Anyway, FWIW this is the original horn line for those first two bars (four bars on your chart):

 

putp-small-fixed.jpg

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Thanks Rez, your right. I know it,s sixteenths I just wrote in cut time 8ths for simplicity. I"m not very picky on a tune like this. I see it as a catchy lick that opens thing s up for me soloing . Like I said I like to play the tresillo bass in my left hand, like the Meters kick drum or Cantalope Island shuffled sixteenths. Played solo piano for me it"s all about getting a good groove and soloing, not about accurately reproducing the original recording, i"m going to ad lib diff entry each time all over it anyway.

 Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."

 

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Thanks Rez, your right. I know it,s sixteenths I just wrote in cut time 8ths for simplicity. I"m not very picky on a tune like this. I see it as a catchy lick that opens thing s up for me soloing . Like I said I like to play the tresillo bass in my left hand, like the Meters kick drum or Cantalope Island shuffled sixteenths. Played solo piano for me it"s all about getting a good groove and soloing, not about accurately reproducing the original recording, i"m going to ad lib diff entry each time all over it anyway.

 

Sounds cool. Can you film or record a bit and share it?

Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material.
www.joshweinstein.com

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I suspect Josh is too humble to post this, it's a solo piano version of Prince's Kiss, I found it marvelous inspiration for a Postmodern Jukebox style duo I have with a singer and stole from it heavily especially for Pull Up to My Bumper (Grace Jones).

 

[video:youtube]

Gig keys: Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Crumar Mojo 61, Crumar Mojo Pedals

 

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If it makes you feel better, Fred Vigdor (AWB's sax player for the last 20-something years) thought it was parallel fourths until Roger straightened him out!
Everyone's always learning :thu:

Rob, has your time with AWB overlapped with Roger's? (He doubled sax/keys iirc).

 

Regards, Mike.

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Rob, has your time with AWB overlapped with Roger's? (He doubled sax/keys iirc).

 

No, not at all. Roger quit the newly reconstituted band in the early 1990s when he decided the road wasn't for him. At that time it was just himself, Alan and Onnie from the original lineup. He recommended Freddy to replace him. I joined in 2013. I go back a ways with Roger though. He and Molly Duncan (the other original sax player, RIP) used to sit in at my gigs with a local funk band I was part of in the early 1980s. He's lived in my area since back then, and through the years would sit in at various local jazz gigs I used to do around here. A great guy and jazzer at heart. I have a video of us playing at one of my jazz gigs from a few years ago â I might post it here someday.

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