MODX8 vs. PC4-88

[Modler]

I lean toward the Yamaha if I was going to use it in my Pop gig with a lot of song specific performances and a need to set up SetLists and edit them. If the board was for my blues gig and I was just doing a few basic bread and butter things I"d lean toward the Kurzweil.

 

You can easily arrange lists of programs and multi's (in any combination) on the PC4 using its Quick Access-banks, where you can put them in order, edit them, etc. You can switch between them using the numeric buttons or a pedal.

The only limitation is that each QA-bank only contains 10 program/multi's, so to make a full setlist you would probably need to use 3 or 4 QA-banks for a full show. But there are plenty of them available.

[CEB]

I lean toward the Yamaha if I was going to use it in my Pop gig with a lot of song specific performances and a need to set up SetLists and edit them. If the board was for my blues gig and I was just doing a few basic bread and butter things I"d lean toward the Kurzweil.

 

You can easily arrange lists of programs and multi's (in any combination) on the PC4 using its Quick Access-banks, where you can put them in order, edit them, etc. You can switch between them using the numeric buttons or a pedal.

The only limitation is that each QA-bank only contains 10 program/multi's, so to make a full setlist you would probably need to use 3 or 4 QA-banks for a full show. But there are plenty of them available.

 

I"ve watched every PC4 demo I could find and no one talks about patch control/ workflow. I swear nobody markets to live players anymore. Korg is the only one that presents video on patch control. Probably because it is just better than the competition I guess. On my Korg I can have 128 SetLists. Each setlist can have 128 combis, programs or songs. To edit the setlist you use the touch screen to copy, cut or paste or insert new combis or programs. The interface is the best thing about the board.

 

God I remember when I thought Yamaha Master Mode was cool. ð

[AnotherScott]

I"ve watch every PC4 demo I could find and no one talks about patch control/ workflow. On my Korg I can have 128 SetLists. Each setlist can have 128 combis, programs or songs. To edit the setlist you use the touch screen to copy, cut or paste or insert new combis or programs.

 

I think this is the PC4 equivalent:

 

128 selectable (and namable) SetLists on Kronos, vs. 1 "Quick Access" set on PC4

 

Each Kronos Set List has 8 (non-namable) pages of 16 patches (totalling 128 patches per set list); the one QA set on PC4 has 50 (namable) pages of 10 patches each (totalling 500 patches in the one Quick Access set).

 

Kronos screen provides the name of each patch, and you click on it. PC4 screen provides the name of each patch, and you click on the correspondingly numbered hard button on the righht.

 

Kronos permits cut (moves all subsequent entries up), insert (moves all subsequent entries down), paste (replaces entry with whatever you cut or copied). PC4 only has the equivalent of paste, replacing an entry with your most recently selected sound. However, you can also move or delete entire pages (sets of 10 favorites).

 

I think that's right. And yes, Kronos is much more capable here.

[Mr. Nightime]

The main sounds I use are AP, Rhodes, Whurli, Clav, Horns, Hammond. I have a few splits, like Piano in the left hand raised a couple octaves with horns on the right,

 

Kronos is out of my price range

[Theo Verelst]

When the new kurzweils came out, I checked the demos, and I am very sure that the choice between a good yamaha motif and PC? compatibles is much depending on personal likes and music making factors. If you are used to Yamaha boards you want to try the kurzes out first.

 

T

[AnotherScott]

The main sounds I use are AP, Rhodes, Whurli, Clav, Horns, Hammond. I have a few splits, like Piano in the left hand raised a couple octaves with horns on the right

PC4 and MODX (and numerous other boards) can certainly handle this.

 

Sounds can be subjective, but the Hammond difference clearly favors the MODX which doesn't have a true organ engine. PC4 gives you the simultaneous 9-drawbar control (plus buttons for percussion, C/V), an actual drawbar model that does not have the polyphony or phase issues that Yamaha's sampled approach does, high trigger point, plus the aforementioned assignable outs which better facilitates using a Vent.

 

Also, some of the nicest Rhodes/Wurli/Clav sounds you can load into both of them come from Purgatory Creek, but the MODX version is a subset of what's available for Kurzweil (550 mb total samples vs. over 2 GB; plus the Yamaha version must load in its entirety unless you buy additional software that lets you better manage samples on the Yamaha, whereas on the Kurz, you can select which instrument sets you want to load).

 

Yamaha probably has the better horns, though. Not sure about piano.

 

Another difference is the way they handle seamless transitions. On the Yamaha, you can seamlessly switch among all sounds as long as the sounds have no more than 4 Parts. The Kurz is both more and less limited in this respect, but generally better...

 

...the Kurz can hold a sound therough *multiple* patch changes, whereas a held note on the MODX will not survive a second patch change

 

...Unlike the MODX, the Kurz will cut off an organ sound when you switch away from it, but since organ sounds typically employ neither release envelopes nor sustain pedal use, seamless switching is less of an issue than on many other sounds...and if you must hold an organ sound through a patch change, Kurz also provides non-KB3 organ sounds where this function will work (they are sample based organ sounds, more like Yamaha's).

 

...Other than organ, nothing on the Kurz cuts out, but you can hear glitches depending on the effects on the sounds you're switching between. So...

* the MODX advantage of having guaranteed no-glitch transitions for sounds of up to 4 Parts is balanced by having them not work at all if a sound consists of more than 4 Parts

* the Kurz advantage of being able to have no sound cut-outs even when switching a sound of up to 16 Parts is balanced by the possibility of having to edit effects if you want a multi-part transition to be completely glitch free

[Mighty Motif Max]

Yamaha Motif XF and Kurzweil PC3 with Kore 64 owner here. Just to comment on brass - neither are perfect. I rate the Kurzweil brass, both the stock and Kore-64 derived patches, as better than the Motif XF brass for brass sections. For solo brass, the Yamaha will win, as it will for saxophone by a large margin. But for brass sections the Kurzweil edges out Yamaha in my opinion. I did have some luck making better user patches on the Motif than the presets. Those SoundCloud demos aren't showing the best patches for the PC4 IMO, nor a proper playing style. Yamaha has an edge for sforzando brass with a swell though, as well as brass falls (which Kurzweil doesn't have to my knowledge). The Montage/MODX do have improved brass over the Motif XF for sure, plus the Motif patches. Both the PC4 and MODX will not be perfect but either will work.

 

If you do want shakes and falls, then either PC4 user libraries/3rd party libraries or the Yamaha will do the job. But if you want full 16-channel midi assignability (like your Kronos), then Kurzweil will be the only one of those two that can do that.

 

Montage/MODX:

 

[video:youtube]

[video:youtube]

[video:youtube]

 

User library for the PC3K:

[video:youtube]

 

This is a PC4, but the sound quality is pretty crappy.

[video:youtube]

 

 

Tell you what...I have my PC3 here with me. When I'm done with classes today, I will make a video of the brass presets since there doesn't seem to be much.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Change of plans - PC3 video will not be today. Looking at this weekend. I'm sorry.

[Mr. Nightime]

BANG!!!

 

I just pulled the trigger on the PC4 88

 

Should be here on Wednesday

[CEB]

BANG!!!

 

I just pulled the trigger on the PC4 88

 

Should be here on Wednesday

 

Good to hear. Give us a full review once you"ve put some time on it Ronald.

 

Thanks.

[miden]

BANG!!!

 

I just pulled the trigger on the PC4 88

 

Should be here on Wednesday

 

Yes I echo CEB - I have a hunch you won't be disappointed. Just allow yourself some time to get your head around the "Kurzweil" way of doing things

[Mr. Nightime]

Unfortunately, I won't be able to really dive into it until Friday, unless I pull an all-nighter. I have rehearsal on Wednesday, and there are keyboards already in the rehearsal space.

 

Then Thursday I have my Bible Study group.

 

I've already started reading the manual. I like to get a jump on the manual whenever I can.

 

It looks rather daunting. it's the size of a novel. 356 pages. There are 13 Pages on just the VB3 editor.

 

Just the sheer quantity of factory sounds is amazing, I should be able to find anything I want, and adjust it easily

[Modler]

* the MODX advantage of having guaranteed no-glitch transitions for sounds of up to 4 Parts is balanced by having them not work at all if a sound consists of more than 4 Parts

* the Kurz advantage of being able to have no sound cut-outs even when switching a sound of up to 16 Parts is balanced by the possibility of having to edit effects if you want a multi-part transition to be completely glitch free

 

True. Combining factory programs in multi's on the PC4 will mostly result in a slight drop out in sound during transitions.

But you can often make totally smooth transitions if you remove the effect blocks that you don't use, save effect chains and programs as user objects and use them instead.

Many of the factory programs has effect chains with maybe 8 or 9 blocks, but you will typically only need half of them.

[Modler]

I've already started reading the manual. I like to get a jump on the manual whenever I can.

 

It looks rather daunting. it's the size of a novel. 356 pages. There are 13 Pages on just the VB3 editor.

 

Just the sheer quantity of factory sounds is amazing, I should be able to find anything I want, and adjust it easily

 

 

Learning how to tame a Kurzweil can be daunting and frustrating at first, but you will be very happy and satisfied when you succeed, and you will never be intimidated by any other keyboard again.

[AnotherScott]

True. Combining factory programs in multi's on the PC4 will mostly result in a slight drop out in sound during transitions.

But you can often make totally smooth transitions if you remove the effect blocks that you don't use

Yes, that's what I meant when I said "the possibility of having to edit effects if you want a multi-part transition to be completely glitch free."

 

Getting back to my early post comparing the two boards in the subject line, I forgot to mention one of the most obvious differences... the PC4 has far more in the way of knobs/sliders/buttons available for immediate sound manipulation. Also, it has balanced outputs.

[miden]

..................Getting back to my early post comparing the two boards in the subject line, I forgot to mention one of the most obvious differences... the PC4 has far more in the way of knobs/sliders/buttons available for immediate sound manipulation. Also, it has balanced outputs.

 

And two sets of outputs at that!

[Fleer]

And 32-but DACs!

 

(Edith: I meant 'bit", but got corrected)

[Mr. Nightime]

..................Getting back to my early post comparing the two boards in the subject line, I forgot to mention one of the most obvious differences... the PC4 has far more in the way of knobs/sliders/buttons available for immediate sound manipulation. Also, it has balanced outputs.

 

And two sets of outputs at that!

 

Those are two of the reasons I chose the PC4. The ability to sculpt the sound in real time is a real selling point, and having the multiple outputs is another. I want to take the VB3 sounds and route them through my vent.

 

And I'm happy to say that the Sweetwater shipping department is really on the ball. It is due in on Monday, not Wednesday. The only issue I'll have is if it gets here before 5, being able to finish work before diving in.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Tell you what...I have my PC3 here with me. When I'm done with classes today, I will make a video of the brass presets since there doesn't seem to be much.

Change of plans - PC3 video will not be today. Looking at this weekend. I'm sorry.

 

Well, not all this went as planned...had my PC3 crap out on me this weekend and my external drive will no longer talk to my computer.

 

I DID get the brass demos recorded. I have not included the Orchestral bank nor the one Kore 64 program called "Low Brass Fanfare" as I think those are outside the scope of regular brass sections etc.

 

Here is every factory brass program in the PC3 except for the Orchestral bank and Low Brass Fanfare from the Kore 64 board. All of these patches should be able to be loaded into the PC4.

 

[video:youtube]

[Fleer]

Thanks KCSS!