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Help selecting weighted 88-key for 80's pop/progmetal


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Hello, I'm looking to get a new keyboard, but I'm not quite sure exactly what style I should be looking for (keyboard, synthesizer, stage, portable, workstation, digital piano, etc). I'm hoping if I can describe my primary uses, you might be able to suggest a few models.

 

Budget 1k-3.5k range

 

My primary use cases are

 

1. Playing movie soundtracks, so I want a good selection of good sounding strings/orchestra preset tones, including octave strings.

 

2. Playing synth/keyboard sounds from 80's rock/AOR, progmetal and powermetal. So I want a good selection of these synth preset tones you might hear in bands like journey, dream theater, stratovarius, etc.

 

3. Running backing track (drum/bass/rhythm) off the keyboard while jamming on guitar or keys.

 

4. Recording out to PC for recording/composition.

 

5. Composing drums using keydrums.

 

6. Playing in the living room, but I won't rule out someday taking it somewhere to play.

 

 

Requirements,

 

1. Not tied to a piece of furniture. I won't move it a lot, but I'd want something that's a standalone keyboard so it could be moved more easily.

 

2. Good realistic key dynamics and weight. It doesn't have to be top of the line realistic feel, but it should be closer in weight and throw to a real piano vs. a cheap keyboard. I definitely want good dynamics, it should respond to soft/hard presses, and be able to depress and do partial re-tapping, etc.

 

3. Supports 3-pedal accessory. Or at least the two sustain pedals.

 

4. Recording out (XLR, etc)

 

5. Great selection of the strings/metal synth sounds out of the box/presets. I don't want to spend time creating my own presets, I'd like to just power on and play.

 

6. 88-keys

 

 

Optional:

 

1. Build in speakers if they are good quality/fill a living room. I'm not opposed to external speakers if the right keyboard for me doesn't have them. I'd rather have the better keyboard that requires external speakers than settle on a keyboard just to get built-in ones. But in a toss up between option A/B it could lean me towards one or the other.

 

2. Some more advanced accompaniment features. Like a automatic accompaniment or arpegiator. I don't do any of that now, but maybe someday in the future it would be something I might get into. I probably won't ever be doing those live layering methods. But just some backing tracks that might be a level above the basic 4 drum fills plus lead-in/lead-out in a style (Which is my basic requirement.

 

 

 

I've been trying to find good u-tube vids for research, but the vast majority only focus on the piano sounds. I'm also really interested in just how easy it is to power-on and play, and the videos either talk too much without showing how to use it, or play to much without showing how to use it.

 

But I'm really liking what I hear on the korg kross 2 88 vids. Some totally 80's synth tones and the "stranger things" arpeggiator and a 700+ presets with synth pad/lead/strings. And there's combi function which add backing accompaniment with presets. And multiple presets are layerable up to 16 layers. It's got knobs to adjust effects on the fly. It seems to cover the types of features and sounds I want.

 

The downside is it's apparently still more of a great beginner keyboard vs. a high-quality one. Review say the key action isn't the best, and the audio samples lack dynamics of more expensive models (like multi-samples to make it more lively).

 

Other options like the Krome 88 or yamaha DGX 660 are apparently somewhat outdated compared to newer models (older sound engine/sampleset). The GX sampleset on yamaha I read is an older library of lower quality samples.

 

New stuff like the RD-2000 may be a bit too complicated? I really want that power-on and play, easy quick navigation and setup. I don't plan to do much preset tweaking or deep editing.

 

Not that I trust everything I read on the internet so that's why I'm asking for some direct advice and experience.

 

Thanks,

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Welcome.

 

Based on your many requirements, forget about on board speakers.

 

Does the keyboard really need to be weighted?

 

If you want to sound like Jordan Rudess, you should use what he uses.

 

You can buy a Kronos LS 88 at the top end of your budget, no need to wish you had purchased something else 6 months from now.

 

Add a pair of powered speakers and you should be set.

:nopity:
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If you want to do this live with adequate patch control get the Kronos-88. If you don"t need instant sound changes on the fly then you have options. There is complication in getting you sounds setup regardless of what platform you buy. Kronos seems as simple as any of them. They all have strengths and weaknesses.

 

I got my Kronos 2-88 because it was the only hardware board that could execute my pop gig without resorting to external setlist management like SetListMaker. I hate extraneous doo-dads.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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I"ll give you a bunch of negatives for the Kronos once you want to go this route. All the online sources will list the positive features. I"m just short on time and can"t go into file management and sampling. It"s still the best tool for your genre. But there are things you will want to know.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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But I'm really liking what I hear on the korg kross 2 88 vids. Some totally 80's synth tones and the "stranger things" arpeggiator and a 700+ presets with synth pad/lead/strings. And there's combi function which add backing accompaniment with presets.

Short version: Program mode is for playing one sound at a time, Combi mode is for playing multiple sounds at a time. Any board that can play more than one sound at a time is in an equivalent to Korg's Combi mode.

 

The downside is it's apparently still more of a great beginner keyboard vs. a high-quality one. Review say the key action isn't the best, and the audio samples lack dynamics of more expensive models (like multi-samples to make it more lively).

Kross has multi-samples.

 

Other options like the Krome 88 or yamaha DGX 660 are apparently somewhat outdated compared to newer models (older sound engine/sampleset).

Krome sound set is technically superior to Kross. Larger set of wave samples, and supports twice as many multi-samples per key. DGX is harder to directly compare.

 

3. Running backing track (drum/bass/rhythm) off the keyboard while jamming on guitar or keys.

There are numerous variables in this one function. Just drums is easy. Bass and other instruments are trickier. If you're playing guitar, then the entire sequence of chord changes for the backing tracls probably need to be programmed into the keyboard, which is one kind of feature. If you're playing keys over the backing tracks, you can do the same, or you can use the arranger features you alluded to so that these tracks are automatically generated as you play, following your changes as you play them.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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If you decide to go all-in with a Kronos..... I usually launch all my sounds in SetList as Combi even if I am only going to use a single sound program. I like having all the effects and EQs etc.... implemented the same way using the same screens.

 

PS - I"m a live player. I ain"t got time to think.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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Welcome.

 

Based on your many requirements, forget about on board speakers.

 

Does the keyboard really need to be weighted?

 

 

I'm ok without onboard speakers.

 

As for weighted, I've had a Kohler-140 digital ensemble piano for about 15 years now. My muscle memory is all built on those weighted keys so I don't want to veer too much away from it. But semi-weighted might be ok.

 

But I am kind of used to that ability to just rest my fingers on the keyboard without drepressing the keys. I mean not a fully hand weight, but I'm assuming anyone who's played a real piano knows what I'm talking about, you can put some finger/hand rest weight on the keys without depressing them. The light keyboard keys usually lack the dynamics and feel I like.

 

It is a requirement for sure that the keys support the light/heavy touch dynamics. I'm not sure if non-weighted keys support the touch sensitive nuances emulation or not. I like playing star wars themes and need to be able to build volume just with finger attack alone. I like feeling some resistance agianst the strong attack. And the ability to touch very softly to get a light sound and get soft re-touches without fully releasing the key. Vs. a strong hit will sustain a lot more.

 

The kohler-140 includes a full style play with 4 refs and ins/outs, and it has chord matching bass/rhythm along with the drums. The strings and octave strings patches sound great for star wars themes. It really lacks in synth pad/lead sounds though. I can't currently find any patches that sound like 80's AOR or powermetal synth leads on it.

 

 

 

What's the actual difference between a kronos, kronos LS, and krome ex workstation?

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the ability to touch very softly to get a light sound and get soft re-touches without fully releasing the key.

To be able to retrigger a note without coming close to fully releasing the key usually requires a feature called triple sensor. But that's not an absolute rule. (There are some 2-sensor boards where the top sensor is still pretty low, and some 3-sensor boards where the middle sensor is still pretty high.)

 

The kohler-140 includes a full style play with 4 refs and ins/outs, and it has chord matching bass/rhythm along with the drums

Looking at the manual, if you'd like your new board to have a function that is a lot like its ACC automatic accompaniment, you would want an arranger.

 

What's the actual difference between a kronos, kronos LS, and krome ex workstation?

Kronos LS is same as the Kronos 88 except the keys are not hammer action keys and they do not have aftertouch. Krome EX is entirely different. Kronos has nine kinds of sound generating "engines" (different techniques for creating the sounds), Krome has a scaled down version of one of those nine (and Kross has a scaled down version of the one in the Krome). The Krome and Kross use Korg's lower priced actions, the Kronos models uses higher end actions (and include aftertouch, except on the LS). The number of real time controls (sliders, knobs, buttons, etc.) varies a lot. Kronos has some other more advanced features in terms of its ability to load custom samples samples, or he ability to hold a sound, switch to another sound, and not have any remaining sustained/decaying notes from the first sound cut off. The total number of simultaneous effects differs. Kronos has something called Karma which I don't know the first thing about. ;-) But while Kronos is easily the most sophisticated of these Korgs, I can't swear that you might find one of the lower end ones more amenable for doing what you're trying to do.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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What is the kronos 2? I see it listed online, but it's not listed on the korg website.

Same as Kronos. Like Apple and Peter Gabriel, Korg has a habit of coming out with multiple products with the same name. The product people call Kronos 2 is just the current version of the Kronos. (Just to make things more confusing, there was a Kronos X that came out between the original Kronos and the current Kronos, which means that the thing people call Kronos 2 is actually the third Kronos.) But even the oldest Kronos is very similar to the current one, so almost anything you read that applies to one applies to all. There was a (paid) software update that gave all the new Kronos features to the original model.

 

Kross is similarly confusing. The first version was called Kross. Then they came out with the new version, which is also called Kross (though unlike Kronos, you cannot get an update to turn the old one into the new one). So depending on where you look, you might see the current Kross called a Kross 2, or you might see it called Kross; and you might see the earlier version referred to either as a Kross or as a Kross 1.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I"ll give you a bunch of negatives for the Kronos once you want to go this route. All the online sources will list the positive features. I"m just short on time and can"t go into file management and sampling. It"s still the best tool for your genre. But there are things you will want to know.

 

Definitely looking like Kronos 2 88 is probably what I'm looking for. I think I could get the same set of features I need on a lower end kross something. But it seems like the kronos is a step above just in basic key hammer action and sound/sample quality. And the karma engine is a auto-accompaniment feature.

 

Curious what is the equivalent in other brands.

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The main place where I would worry about the Kronos disappointing is in this requirement: "I really want that power-on and play, easy quick navigation and setup". But it's definitely got the sounds. Also, I'd be careful about assuming that Karma will give you the auto-accompaniment the way you want it, as easily as you want it. But I'll leave more detailed discussion of that to others.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Just reading your thread title, the first keyboard I thought of was the Kronos 2. With regard to playing pop/rock, you will find it contains a plethora of programs for popular songs. You mentioned Journey...it contains piano programs including "Faithfully" and "Don't Stop Believing" and "Send Her My Love."

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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If you decide to go all-in with a Kronos..... I usually launch all my sounds in SetList as Combi even if I am only going to use a single sound program. I like having all the effects and EQs etc.... implemented the same way using the same screens.

 

PS - I"m a live player. I ain"t got time to think.

 

Agree also a live player less thinking and more skilled playing is my plan.

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Referring to your original post, suggest you consider a Kurzweil PC4.

 

It ticks most of your requirements, and is priced in the middle of your price range, with good weighted action

As others have noted you will not likely find a board with your desired attributes that has on-board speakers.

 

Many YouTube's out there demonstrating the sounds that are already 'in-the-box'...some examples:

.....

 

As Sound On Sound Review

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/kurzweil-pc4

 

This is one of the newest of an extensive line of Kurzweil boards, where many of the sounds/programs can be drawn from previous models (likely . Hundreds of programs sound are available from various forums. One of them (Ksetlist.com) has a section where Users upload and share the sounds they have specifically created for performing groups (Pink Floyd, Herbie Hancock, Iron Maiden, etc.)

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What Dave said:I own the Kronos LS 88 and it would be perfect for this sort of gig. It's still weighty but definitely better weight-wise than the Kronos 2 88....
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Yeah, not really sure how all the auto accompaninent features work. Or what I'd really say is a desired/required.

 

With my current Kohler-140, I can select from several rock beats, start an intro and one of four variations. By default it's only playing drums. And then I just hit a B-minor chord on the lower strings and it kicks in an accompaniment riff in B-minor.

 

And my primary use of this feature is to jam on guitar with the backing track. So in reality, I'm not constantly hitting chords on the piano to have it follow me anyway. I just hit the B-minor once and then just jam out from there (I play a 7-string so B-minor and B-lydian are my favorite noodling modes).

 

If I'm arranging something, then I usually just cycling through the drum-only to record a drum track, then play a rhythm over it and record that, and then play those back to jam guitar over.

 

So I'm interested in other arrnagement type modes that might be present. But I don't have any real requirements on it.

 

 

I've been looking at speakers. I'm not sure if two 5" will be good enough (looking at JBL 305p MKII) or if I need to go up to 8" for home usage (lke a 308 pr QSC CP8). Though the QSC doesn't have built-in bass support. I like the jbl feature of a wide sweet spot, since it'll be used for living room purposes. But it's definitely not a high-end speaker.

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With my current Kohler-140, I can select from several rock beats, start an intro and one of four variations. By default it's only playing drums. And then I just hit a B-minor chord on the lower {keys} and it kicks in an accompaniment riff in B-minor.

 

And my primary use of this feature is to jam on guitar with the backing track. So in reality, I'm not constantly hitting chords on the piano to have it follow me anyway. I just hit the B-minor once and then just jam out from there

Okay, if you're just jamming over B so all you need is drums plus "an accompaniment riff in B-minor," the variable to look at is where that riff comes from. In an arranger, it's part of the style. In other boards, it would be generated in an arpeggiator or a pattern sequencer. Then there is the consideration of whether you want to compose/program the riff yourself, or choose from something pre-programmed into the board.

 

If I'm arranging something, then I usually just cycling through the drum-only to record a drum track, then play a rhythm over it and record that, and then play those back to jam guitar over.

This sounds like a pattern sequencer or looper function.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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The Kurzweils do not have XLR out for requirement #4.

 

Reasons I sold Kurzweil Forte for Fantom 8 was also for a built in digital interface, built in Mainstage/Logic integration and a better action than the Fatar TP/40.

 

It has a much better UI as a workstation, although the Forte is still incredibly powerful. If I were doing 80's pop music, the Roland sounds and the libraries on Roland Cloud are very comprehensive.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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The Kurzweils do not have XLR out for requirement #4.

XLRs are not needed for recording. But if someone wants a balanced connection, the 1/4" jacks on the PC4 are balanced. So a simple cable gives you a balanced connection to an XLR destination if need be.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Korg Kronos 2 88 would be a good choice. I'm also going to throw in a suggestion for the Yamaha Montage - I think it would do what you want as well. PC4-88 might fit the bill or it might not for synth.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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Hmmmmm.... I really don't think the Kronos is a board for someone like you that wants it simple and is relatively inexperienced with keyboards. It's accessible if you have great patience. Even with it's large touchscreen, there's just so much to learn.

 

I suggest you get your feet wet first. Get the Kross II, it's super super fun and accessible, and it's cheap, under $1K? for a weighted board. A lot of its mojo is being able to record something and then play along with it and record on top of it. Not sure if it has accompaniment features but most boards these days have some degree of them.

 

You don't want to bog yourself down with a keyboard you can do it all on, if you spend months on learning it. Keyboards take time to learn, there's a lot to them. If you go into the deep end first time out, you'll probably end up spending ooooooodles of time figuring it out. Otherwise there's arrangers, the Korg PA1000 and the Yamaha PSRX900 are made to order if you want auto accompaniment.

 

There's 45 day return periods from most stores these days. If you don't jive with a board by then, return it and try another one. I was really surprised at how much fun and intuitive the Kross board was.

Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus 

Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB

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A lot of {Kross'} mojo is being able to record something and then play along with it and record on top of it.

I wonder if it's easier to do something like that on the Kross than it is on the Kronos...?

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I suggest you get your feet wet first. Get the Kross II, it's super super fun and accessible, and it's cheap, under $1K? for a weighted board. A lot of its mojo is being able to record something and then play along with it and record on top of it. Not sure if it has accompaniment features but most boards these days have some degree of them.

 

The thing about the Kross is that it has a pretty cheap weighted action (considering the OP wants this to be decently similar to a real piano) and will not satisfy the rest of his action requirements. Neither does it have high-quality strings (IMO). Synths are decently good I would think. I have a Krome which is one level above the Kross and I know that the Kross ironically has many more synth options. The strings would not be better than the Krome's however, and the Krome's are not great. Kronos strings are better plus you have all the soundset options there.

 

 

Any recent Korg will have the drum track feature, which is *great* for jamming along with. Bass is a little trickier but can be accomplished in Combi mode.

 

I know what you're saying, Randy, about the complexity. I'm still saying a Kronos would be good. Pick your favorite 15-20 sounds, load them in a setlist, and no more digging needed until you feel like it. Have that setlist come up when you power on the Kronos, and there you go.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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I have a Krome which is one level above the Kross and I know that the Kross ironically has many more synth options.
I'm surprised to hear that. What kinds of synth options does the Kross have that the Krome does not? I know of some feature advantages (like the sampling/trigger pads, battery operation, audio inputs/vocoder) but I didn't know about synth options.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I"m a live player. I ain"t got time to think.

Stealing. :)

 

My greatest train wrecks were because I tried to think. The hands usually know where to go if I stay out of the way. Japanese will refer to a state of mind called Mushin no Shin. That is what I want to achieve sure a gig.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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