MODX8 vs. PC4-88

[timwat]

These two seem to be the likely candidates at sub-$2K.

 

Both have a good helping of bread and butter. Both allow user sample import. Both are reasonably light for schlep.

 

Which one is the preferred choice, and why?

[CEB]

I like the Kurz sound libraries. The action on the MODX8 isn"t especially great (it"s not bad either it"s okay) ... But I like the Yamaha Live Sets interface. It"s sort of like Korg SetList. I"ve not laid hands on the Kurzweil.

 

I lean toward the Yamaha if I was going to use it in my Pop gig with a lot of song specific performances and a need to set up SetLists and edit them. If the board was for my blues gig and I was just doing a few basic bread and butter things I"d lean toward the Kurzweil.

 

I want something lighter. The lightest thing I have is a S90XS. I"m trying to figure out the same thing.

[AnotherScott]

Copying from another thread:

 

PC4 advantages:

* 4 engines: sample-based, FM, virtual analog, clonewheel organ (MODX has the first two)

* assignable additional outputs

* aftertouch

* better implementation of seamless switching

* more flexible MIDI implementation

* full sequencer

* more polyphony

* more controller support (ribbon, 4 foot switches, though no superknob)

* hard button patch recall (though touchscreen also has advantages)

* full 16 zone/part support (MODX supports 16 internal Part but only 8 can be assigned to the internal keys, and it supports only 8 external parts)

* double the User sample memory (which also means you can load the larger, more complete versions of Busch's sample sets)

 

MODX advantages:

* touchscreen (also, screen is bigger)

* built-in USB computer interface

* endless encoders

* their various "motion control" related enhancements, which I admit I've pretty much ignored, it doesn't seem to apply to anything I do, but there is an overview at https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/montage/features.html - I assume some of these are beyond what the PC4 can do, though I don't really know.

 

Sonically, each has some sounds I prefer over the equivalents in the other. Difference in action is subjective, but while neither is among my favorite actions, I prefer the PC4.

[Coker]

I have had the SP6, which shares most sounds with the PC4 and has essentially the same action, but with aftertouch. I replaced the SP6 with the MODX88 primarily because I couldn"t get acoustic pianos out of the SP6 to my satisfaction.

 

In MY opinion:

 

SP6"s acoustic piano implementation is inferior to the MODX. In the SP6, if you play a dense chord, the notes don"t seem to blend well with each other, creating a harsh sounding AP.

SP6"s organ implementation is superior, but the MODX is usable for convincing layering and occasional soloing.

MODX"s guitar implementation is superior to the SP6.

Both had very good Rhodes samples.

Kurzweil"s architecture is easier to use if you want to tweak one sound and have those tweaks show up in all patches that use that sound. I actually prefer that approach to Yamaha"s approach, where tweaks to a sound within a patch do not affect other patches that use the same sound.

Yamaha"s user interface (the big color touchscreen) is very easy to use, which I cannot compare specifically to the PC4.

[allan_evett]

I just finished listening to a 'deep dive' demo of the PC4 by Chris Martirano; it's one of his Kraft Music YouTube videos. Very worth checking out; comprehensive and informative. I have a MODX8, which basically has my history with Yahama keys in it. But if I was deciding between a PC4 and MODX8 it might be a tough call now. AnotherScott's post is helpful and accurate; there isn't much I'd add, except to say that the gridded, matrix-style interface is much cleaner on the PC4. The interface overall seems much clearer and quicker - especially for live use.

 

I've been considering the SP6 - off and on, as a possible replcement for the RD-88. For awhile now I've been having a well-documented love-hate relationship with the RD. This is where I feel that Kurzweil has the user interface concept nailed down, even with their 2nd tier entry-level instruments; as the SP6 user interface is way out ahead of that of the similarly priced RD-88. And the PC4 has an even more generous front panel interface; it's actuallycloser to that of the Montage than the MODX. Geez, if I don't shut up now i'll talk myself right into replacing the RD-88 with a PC4 .

[Song80s]

These two seem to be the likely candidates at sub-$2K.

 

Both have a good helping of bread and butter. Both allow user sample import. Both are reasonably light for schlep.

 

Which one is the preferred choice, and why?

 

 

as a long time Kronos 88 owner, I purchased MODX 8 last month from Kraft.

 

about the 88 key bed, its very close to Korgs RH3. so its perfectly ok.

If you are cool with RH3, you will be fine with whatever Yamaha calls the MODX 8 keybed.

 

My main requirement is recording. Yamaha purchased Steinberg/Cubase some yrs ago.

 

While I struggled with setup to Cubase/ integration for a week, I finally have it working.

 

MODX / Cubase integration, productive recording is a main reason for my purchase.

 

IMO, what your requirements are is the driving factor for an expensive keyboard.

 

I didn't like the PC4 display compared to MODX. If I can't get behind the display,

any keyboard is a non starter.

[Fleer]

Got the MODX8, then added the PC4 and the RD88.

Did away with the MODX8 for its clunky GHS action.

Pretty much still in love with both PC4 and RD88.

Might get an upgraded Montage/MODX6 later.

[ElmerJFudd]

I"m surprised you found the Medeli on the PC4 better in some capacity than the GHS. Can you elaborate on that, Fleer? Is it different than the one in the SP6?

[miden]

I can if you like, the PC4 'board is quieter, less side to side, has aftertouch and I can easily play fast triplets (on the same note)...nearly impossible on the GHS.

[ElmerJFudd]

Interesting. I"ve played the MODX8 in shop. I felt dynamically for piano playing it was well matched. Not the Montage or CP/88 action, but better than the CP-40 for some reason. After touch doesn"t usually add to piano-like feel, but as long as it doesn"t hinder it, it"s a nice feature. I can"t think of where I might be able to play PC4-8 or SP6 nearby.

 

Sam Ash carries one or two Medeli digital pianos. A console and a slab. Was not impressed with either - the slab in particular side by side with P-145, FP-30, PX-160. Not impressed. But maybe not the same action. Only time with these Kurzweils will help that bias for me.

[Fleer]

miden"s right, Elmer, but most of all Yamaha"s bad GHS-keybed reputation made me part with the MODX8.

Actually, I started looking for more information on Medeli, and found out they"re the company behind ASM"s Hydrasynth, one of the most interesting and well built keyboards launched recently.

I can"t compare with the SP6 as I haven"t played one. But there"s the aftertouch for sure.

[ElmerJFudd]

I heard the Medeli - Hydra Connection recently too. It"s a cool synth, certainly one of the most compelling digital models we"ve seen in a good while.

[jerrythek]

Got the MODX8, then added the PC4 and the RD88.

Did away with the MODX8 for its clunky GHS action.

Pretty much still in love with both PC4 and RD88.

Might get an upgraded Montage/MODX6 later.

 

On behalf of the keyboard product industry I'd like to thank you for your persistence and support!

 

[miden]

Yeah, fwiw I too, like Fleer, am thinking of adding either the MODX 6 or 7 to the PC4.

[The_Star_Guy]

Yeah, fwiw I too, like Fleer, am thinking of adding either the MODX 6 or 7 to the PC4.

 

+1

 

Hi, Miden! Can you elaborate a bit more on this? I am seriously looking at either the PC4 or PC4-7 but will likely still keep my MODX7, mostly for gigging. Just how complimentary are these two keyboards sonically? And is the Medali action of the PC4 suitable enough to substitute for a stage piano? Your comparison to the Yamaha GHS action caught my attention, as I consider GHS to be very playable, just not particularly durable. Unfortunately, I haven't yet had the opportunity to sit down and play the PC4..yet!

[Mr. Nightime]

This thread could not have come at a better time.

 

I'm looking to upgrade from my Yamaha MM8. I first looked at the Korg Krome EX88. Looks OK

 

But further research has steered me to either the PC4 or the MODX8.

 

I will be using it primarily for live performance.

 

I'm leaning toward the PC4

 

The main thing that is steering me toward the PC4 is the incorporation of VB3, and nine sliders that would correspond to drawbars.

 

Yes, I have my Hammond SK2, but there may be some times where having just one keyboard that does it all would be preferable.

 

My one question is the quality of the horns. In my band we do some Chicago, and I have to emulate the horns. The MM8 does a very passable job of that. Anything I get to replace it needs to be comperable or better.

 

I'm waiting for a check I deposited to clear on Friday, then I'm pulling the trigger.

[AnotherScott]

My one question is the quality of the horns. In my band we do some Chicago, and I have to emulate the horns. The MM8 does a very passable job of that. Anything I get to replace it needs to be comperable or better.

I don't think that's one of the PC4's strongest points but I think it should at least match what you're used to...

 

[Mr. Nightime]

My one question is the quality of the horns. In my band we do some Chicago, and I have to emulate the horns. The MM8 does a very passable job of that. Anything I get to replace it needs to be comperable or better.

I don't think that's one of the PC4's strongest points but I think it should at least match what you're used to...

 

I had listened to those. They sounded OK, but I was NOT a fan of the performance used. Really did not do justice to the sounds. Needed to be along the lines of some Chicago horn lines for the brass, and "Into the Mystic" for the sax section.

[Delaware Dave]

Assuming that the PC4's horns/brass is at least as good as the PC3 I use the brass and tenor sax all of the time. They get the job done.

[AnotherScott]

Assuming that the PC4's horns/brass is at least as good as the PC3 I use the brass and tenor sax all of the time. They get the job done.

Whatever PC3 brass programs aren't already in the PC4 should at least be able to be loaded in. In addition, the PC4 also supports the brass programs of the Kore64 upgrade, and I think some of those programs are also already in the PC4 as well.

[allan_evett]

I used a PC3 from 2008 - 2012. It covered the horn parts capably. Between those legacy brass instruments and the newer ones you'd be fine. Guessing you could set up some cool split Multis combining a KB3 patch and a few horn patches. And if there's already a stacked brass Multi in the CP4, you could easily edit that to split a KB3 organ on the bottom or top of the range.

I have a MODX8, and enjoy it a lot; but drawbar organ is not its strong suite - especially if you want individual drawbar control, etc..

[hookie]

I have a PC3 and MODX and feel the horns are very comparable, liking the yammy"s slightly better. At this point I think it"s pretty subjective between the two. Sometimes I use different keyboards depending on song and how they lay in the mix. YMMV

[Bif_]

 

 

I'm leaning toward the PC4

 

The main thing that is steering me toward the PC4 is the incorporation of VB3, and nine sliders that would correspond to drawbars.

 

 

Yes, the sliders will help get you there.

 

Regarding the brass programs, the PC4's addition of the Kore 64 brass sounds is an improvement. I think you'll find it's more about how you play/voice brass parts than whether it's Yamaha or Kurz.

[Al Coda]

If I´d ever really knew what SOS want´s to tell w/ that line:

 

"Overall, ... this keyboard.

It's not as nice as a top-of-the-range Fatar, Kawai, Roland or Korg, there's no wood in it and no escapement feel, but it's a lot better than budget 88-note clunkers."

 

What are "budget 88-note clunkers" (examples please) and what means "a lot better" ?

 

I don´t find the "top-of-the-range" Fatar and many others perfect.

Most bounce back @key release and feel sluggish.

 

My very old acoustic upright´s action doesn´t bounce back at all as also doesn´t my old and trusty Roland/Rhodes MK80.

I even disliked the Kawai MP11.

It´s also not matter of wood and/or escape feel,- all things I consider to be cosmetics,- ivory feel and bells & whistles too.

When keys release too slow and bounce,- you cannot play FAST (!) triplet repetitions,- period.

 

To me, the action is the most important and for a keyboard offering that wide sound palette, I prefer weighted "balanced" over "graded" hammer.

Number of engines, samples, patches and featuritis is 2nd row but very welcome WHEN the action is good.

Ext. PSU is not very welcome on my end.

 

 

A.C.

[timwat]

I agree - there are some actions that are so heavy, slow and sluggish that I cannot get them to "speak". And then others that, despite adjusting velocity curves and such, don't offer enough nuance to a guy who grew up as a pianist.

 

But then past those extremes, I also spent time gigging "house pianos" - from that ice-pick bright piano at the Catalina to the dull and tired baby grand at the Sound Room to that horrible upright at the Bistro in Hayward. So maybe I'm less discriminating about a live 88 action than some, especially for a do-all gigging board that needs to cover all sorts of rock / R&B / funk / fusion / etc.

 

For my acoustic-only jazz gigs, I'll bring a dedicated slab piano. But for a wedding / dance / corporate gig, it's more important that I can cover all the bases. Just my own biases.

[felis]

My money went to the PC4.

 

I program all my sounds with release velocity, so Yamaha (and most other boards) were out of the running.

[Mr. Nightime]

That's kind of where I'm at. I've played so many different feels, that it really is not THAT important. It just needs to be responsive, smooth feeling across the board, with out sluggishness. I don't do many fast repeats on s single note, but I want the ability to use that if the feeling hits.

 

I am mostly a live Classic Rock/Blues player, that will need to sit in the mix, then jump out front when needed, usually without touching a volume control.

 

I had a Rhodes Stage 88, and hated the action, as it was so stiff. My CP-70B was also a bit stiff. But, I got along with the Korg SP200 action, and have had no complaints with the Yamaha MM8.

 

I can get used to just about anything.

 

Yes I know that weighted action is not ideal for Hammond sounds, but I will only leave the SK2 at home on certain gigs. I just want the option to use just the one board

 

It would be nice if I could turn off the on board Leslie effects on the VB3 sounds, route them to the second outputs, and go through my Vent with them.

 

In a board that it that capable I would be very surprised if I couldn't

[AnotherScott]

I got along with the Korg SP200 action, and have had no complaints with the Yamaha MM8.

MM8 was GHS, which is the kind they use in MODX8. From what I can tell, I think most people agree that PC4 is at least comparable if not better, so you should be fine with it.

 

It would be nice if I could turn off the on board Leslie effects on the VB3 sounds, route them to the second outputs, and go through my Vent with them.

 

In a board that it that capable I would be very surprised if I couldn't

Yes, you can do that on the PC4.

[miden]

That's kind of where I'm at. I've played so many different feels, that it really is not THAT important. It just needs to be responsive, smooth feeling across the board, with out sluggishness. I don't do many fast repeats on s single note, but I want the ability to use that if the feeling hits.

 

I am mostly a live Classic Rock/Blues player, that will need to sit in the mix, then jump out front when needed, usually without touching a volume control.

 

I had a Rhodes Stage 88, and hated the action, as it was so stiff. My CP-70B was also a bit stiff. But, I got along with the Korg SP200 action, and have had no complaints with the Yamaha MM8.

 

I can get used to just about anything.

 

Yes I know that weighted action is not ideal for Hammond sounds, but I will only leave the SK2 at home on certain gigs. I just want the option to use just the one board

 

It would be nice if I could turn off the on board Leslie effects on the VB3 sounds, route them to the second outputs, and go through my Vent with them.

 

In a board that it that capable I would be very surprised if I couldn't

 

I use the triplets as a way of expressing how fast the keys are, not really meaning it was the be all and end all hahaha!. As I wrote, on the GHS I found this almost impossible to achieve with any guarantee of all notes actually sounding. Plus the keys have a high release which only seems to occur with organ programs so makes playing organ, even on the weighted bed a not so bad experience. Another bonus, perhaps not for you, is that the Vortex II wi-fi dongle connected to the USB port works without any setup needed or adaptors.

[Modler]

 

It would be nice if I could turn off the on board Leslie effects on the VB3 sounds, route them to the second outputs, and go through my Vent with them.

 

In a board that it that capable I would be very surprised if I couldn't

 

 

There's a guide to that on Kurzweil's website. They haven't made one for the PC4 just yet, but you can look it up under the FAQ-section for the Forte, which works almost the same as on the PC4.