Music Player Network
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
#3066120 10/15/20 12:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,165
Likes: 154
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
OP Online Content
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,165
Likes: 154
The National Independent Venue Association (NIVA) is partnering with YouTube for a 3-day virtual music festival to #SaveOurStages. #SOSFEST will live stream on NIVA's official YouTube channel October 16-18 and will feature all new performances. This benefit event aims to generate significant awareness, advocacy and donations for the NIVA Emergency Relief Fund, directly supporting our most vulnerable venues experiencing catastrophic revenue loss.

#SaveOurStages


guinness keys
1 member likes this: Grave Bryce
Sound, Studio, and Stage Island
Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Doerfler #3066159 10/15/20 02:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,843
Likes: 226
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,843
Likes: 226
Thanks for posting!

This is a great thing, much needed. Loss of our music venues would be a national catastrophe, nothing less.
It's been un-fun losing all of our gigs, it will be worse if there is nothing to come home to!


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Doerfler #3066171 10/15/20 03:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 21,759
Likes: 322
4x KCFFL Champ
20k Club
Offline
4x KCFFL Champ
20k Club
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 21,759
Likes: 322
What Kuru said.

dB

1 member likes this: SamuelBLupowitz
Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Doerfler #3066203 10/15/20 08:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
I've just sent NIVA a letter for info regarding how contributions are distributed (directly to venues, operational costs, salaries, etc.). I don't see anywhere that they're a 501(c)(3) non-profit. Not that they have to be, but...

They list 7 partners and 7 local venue associations. I assume they work through some of those associations, so I checked on some of the links. They all seem legit but how do they propose to save venues? Pay rent? Pay employees? Lobby for government assistance? All of the above? One of the local venue associations is Venue Coalition, which according to their site, "provides a wide range of booking and consultation services to its member venues and content providers including Agents, Promoters, and Producers." Do they decide where money goes, or are they just supporters?

They have quite a staff. Are these volunteers, paid positions, or some combination? I'm not seeing a lot of transparency about how they propose to "save our stages."

I did notice their address is listed as 1 Penn Plaza in New York...not exactly cheap real estate. Tenants include Cisco Systems, WSP (the organization formerly known as Parsons Brinckerhoff), Valley Bank, Century Link, multiple legal firms, multiple consultancy groups, CipherHealth, Polycom, etc. Are they paying the rent, or is some legal group with principals who love music letting them use a section of their offices?

Now, I'm NOT saying there's necessarily anything wrong...but I'd want to know more about their modus operandi before writing a check. NIVA is not listed with give.org, which publishes reports regarding administrative and fundraising costs. For example, according to the BBB the Ocean Conservancy spends 78% of what it takes in on programs, 15% on fundraising, and 7% on administrative, which is very good. I would like to see similar figures for NIVA.

Again, let me emphasize I'm not accusing anyone of anything, and that I agree this an important cause. They're probably well-meaning, wonderful people who want to do good, and are in the stages of simply collecting money until they can figure out where to invest it so it can grow, which would allow doing more good. I just want to know more about the mechanics of how they operate, and where the money goes. Trust, but verify smile

Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Doerfler #3066212 10/15/20 10:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 651
Likes: 19
MPN Advisory Board
Gold Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
Gold Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 651
Likes: 19
I read somewhere that this was to support venues in "music cities" in the US. I'd have to stretch to list seven cities where the city itself has music venues (just about everywhere) and is associated with music in some way (this makes it kind of special).

Nashville
Memphis
New York
Los Angeles
Kansas City
New Orleans
San Francisco (needs a time machine)

Ummmmmmmm

Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Mike Rivers #3066215 10/15/20 10:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,843
Likes: 226
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,843
Likes: 226
Originally Posted by Mike Rivers
I read somewhere that this was to support venues in "music cities" in the US. I'd have to stretch to list seven cities where the city itself has music venues (just about everywhere) and is associated with music in some way (this makes it kind of special).

Nashville
Memphis
New York
Los Angeles
Kansas City
New Orleans
San Francisco (needs a time machine)

Ummmmmmmm

Seattle?


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
KuruPrionz #3066221 10/16/20 12:51 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 651
Likes: 19
MPN Advisory Board
Gold Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
Gold Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 651
Likes: 19
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Seattle?

Only if you live there. wink

Like the other Washington where I live, lots of good musicians come from there but had to go somewhere else to get famous. We've had some well known and well-booked venues over the years, but those that haven't gone away have pretty much gone to seed.

Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Mike Rivers #3066224 10/16/20 01:39 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,843
Likes: 226
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,843
Likes: 226
Originally Posted by Mike Rivers
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Seattle?

Only if you live there. wink

Like the other Washington where I live, lots of good musicians come from there but had to go somewhere else to get famous. We've had some well known and well-booked venues over the years, but those that haven't gone away have pretty much gone to seed.

I don't live in Seattle and I am from Fresno, California - home of Cher, Redbone, just north of Hanford (Steve Perry of Journey).


So, to qualify, somebody must become famous in the city where they are born and the city must also be famous?
It does muddy the waters a bit, no?
Who gets credit for the Beatles then? Liverpool, London or Ed Sullivan?
Elvis Presley was born and raised in Tupelo MI, and moved to Memphis with his family when he was 13 years old.

The list of big music stars who moved to other cities and then became famous is LONG. It could well be longer than the list of people who were actually born in the cities that had recording studios and record companies - which is more what your list seems to center on.

Cher was from my hometown of Fresno. So was the band Redbone and Steve Perry was born just a bit south in Hanford. I get why Fresno is not on the list.
What about Bakersfield? - a hugely influential town in the history of Country music - Merle Haggard, Buck Owens - a TON of hit records came out of Bakersfield.

Bing Crosby - born in Tacoma, just south of Seattle. Went to LA to record.
Ray Charles was born in Seattle. Hard to name a more influential artist, he moved elsewhere to become famous.
Jimi Hendrix was born and raised in Seattle and changed the way electric guitar was played, forever, but not while he was in Seattle.

Heart was/is from Seattle.
Nirvana, Pearl Jam. Seattle appears to claim the Kingsmen (Louie Louie) but they were from Portland.

I don't care much either way but I question if there is an accurate way to arrive at any sort of justifiable decision?


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Doerfler #3066241 10/16/20 04:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
I just want to know what NIVA is about...haven't gotten a reply to my request for more information yet.

Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Anderton #3066244 10/16/20 05:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,843
Likes: 226
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,843
Likes: 226
Originally Posted by Anderton
I just want to know what NIVA is about...haven't gotten a reply to my request for more information yet.

I figured you had that covered after your first post. I'm curious as well.
Lots of aspects to discuss in these situations. We had a diverse, fun and interesting music scene here, I'd hate to see it take any worse of a hit than it has already.
I didn't get to see much, booked most ThFrSa and the last thing I wanted to do on nights off was to listen to live music. There are a couple of performers here who will bring me out anyway, they are excellent.

It makes me curious regarding where the money goes, just like you were saying. We could use a chunk, right here.
We've had high level acts coming through here for a long time. Talented locals and some interesting drifters.

I guess I'm saying I'm not sure if you just pick the status quo American "Music Cities" or look around a bit and see what's going on out here in the real world.
Northwest Washington is rich in musicians, even if the musicians are not rich.


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
KuruPrionz #3066266 10/16/20 02:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 651
Likes: 19
MPN Advisory Board
Gold Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
Gold Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 651
Likes: 19
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
I guess I'm saying I'm not sure if you just pick the status quo American "Music Cities" or look around a bit and see what's going on out here in the real world.
Northwest Washington is rich in musicians, even if the musicians are not rich.

I don't care much either way but I question if there is an accurate way to arrive at any sort of justifiable decision?[/quote]

Honestly, "music cities," without a definition and clear mission statement, does seem like a kind of loosey-goosey concept. It could just be another way to find some money to play with. Or it could be a great idea for some local chambers of commerce to wave another flag.

Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Mike Rivers #3066274 10/16/20 03:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,843
Likes: 226
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,843
Likes: 226
Originally Posted by Mike Rivers
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
I guess I'm saying I'm not sure if you just pick the status quo American "Music Cities" or look around a bit and see what's going on out here in the real world.
Northwest Washington is rich in musicians, even if the musicians are not rich.

I don't care much either way but I question if there is an accurate way to arrive at any sort of justifiable decision?

Honestly, "music cities," without a definition and clear mission statement, does seem like a kind of loosey-goosey concept. It could just be another way to find some money to play with. Or it could be a great idea for some local chambers of commerce to wave another flag.[/quote]

Yes, it is too complex to parse. Music is EVERYWHERE, it is part of every human culture.
What is NOT a Music City? The qualifier would have to be "City".
There are lots of cities.


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
KuruPrionz #3066293 10/16/20 04:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Yes, it is too complex to parse. Music is EVERYWHERE, it is part of every human culture.
What is NOT a Music City? The qualifier would have to be "City".
There are lots of cities.

I agree there's no objective yardstick, although I do tell people that with respect to Nashville, "music city" is more like a spec than a marketing phrase smile

But I can think of cities that promote their "musicness," like Austin. It does (did?) have a pretty big club scene, and SXSW. Then you have cities like Madison WI that have a vibrant music scene, but aren't all that much recognized for it by the outside world.

Or take Atlanta - it's a hip-hop hotbed, but is probably best known for the horrific traffic jams smile And there are cities with a big musical history, like Chicago, New Orleans, and Detroit, and cities that were (are?) a musical epicenter, like Seattle. What about Las Vegas, where there are a lot of gigging opportunities for musicians?

I suppose one objective measure would be number of music venues per capita, but then you need to define music venues...does a restaurant with a one-man-band count as a venue?

Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Doerfler #3066294 10/16/20 04:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
And then there's this list, which includes Asheville, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, New York, and Athens GA as the best cities for live music.

If you search on "what cities have the biggest music scenes" you'll get a lot of hits smile

Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Doerfler #3066311 10/16/20 06:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 651
Likes: 19
MPN Advisory Board
Gold Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
Gold Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 651
Likes: 19
Well, then, there you have it. It's on the Internet, so it might be correct.

Obviously the kind of music that's dominant in a city makes it a music city or not depending on how much you care or don't care about that kind of music. I don't know diddly about hiphop, so I would never think of a city with a strong hiphop scene as being a music city. On the other hand, I know Ashville and surrounding towns as a strong place for old time country music (fiddles and banjos), but I wouldn't expect a hiphop lover to give a hoot or holler.

Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Doerfler #3066383 10/17/20 03:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
I did hear back. If you want info on how to apply for relief, here you go.

However, I still did not receive financials on NIVA (money allocated to programs, salaries, and operational expenses). I still don't see any indication they're a 501(c)(3). I did see that the funding is being evaluated and administered by The Giving Back Fund, and they are a 501(c)(3). I assume that is what allows NIVA Emergency Relief Fund contributions to be tax-deductible, regardless of the status of NIVA.

Nor could I find any information on the percentage breakdown of programs, salaries, and operational expenses for The Giving Back Fund. The only reference I saw to The Giving Back Fund, aside from multiple negative reviews on the Glass Door website (which of course I understand are not necessarily without bias), was about $90K for a senior foundation manager. Neither NIVA nor The Giving Back Fund was listed on give.org (the Better Business Bureau web site that rates charitable organizations), or on charitywatchdog.org, so those were dead ends for finding out more information as well.

I'll report back if I find out anything more about the financials.

[Edit] I've now been handed over to the people at The Giving Back Fund, since they're the ones administering the money. FWIW, when I was involved in The Gibson Foundation, not one cent went to administrative or operational expenses. Gibson absorbed it all, so that's kind of my yardstick.

Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Doerfler #3066466 10/18/20 04:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
Did anyone watch any of the concerts?

Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Anderton #3066524 10/19/20 02:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,165
Likes: 154
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
OP Online Content
MPN Advisory Board
10k Club
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 10,165
Likes: 154
Originally Posted by Anderton
Did anyone watch any of the concerts?

OP here. I did not as finances are tight at the moment and I am unable to contribute. If I watch and don't contribute I feel like I am stealing. YMMV

I did buy merchandise from 930 Club earlier in the pandemic, I do what I can when I can, this weekend wasn't it for me.


guinness keys
Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Doerfler #3066529 10/19/20 03:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
Originally Posted by Doerfler
If I watch and don't contribute I feel like I am stealing. YMMV.

I appreciate your ethics. We'll see where your money would have been going, and whether it would have been matched by an equal set of ethics, when I hear back from The Giving Back Fund that's behind the logistics.

Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Anderton #3066539 10/19/20 04:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,843
Likes: 226
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,843
Likes: 226
Originally Posted by Anderton
Did anyone watch any of the concerts?


I didn't even think of it. I haven't had a TV in decades and don't subscribe to any movie channels online so I'm not really used to watching anything on schedule.
Busy cleaning and de-cluttering all weekend.

Plus, as pointed out above, I have no discretionary income at the moment.
We had a Women's Rally down at the courthouse on Saturday. I got a good friend a gig for that one, she was paid $200 to sing for a couple of sets - PA provided. I forgot to go to that too!!!! Meh...
Another friend said 300 people showed up, all in masks and maintaining distance. It was nice outside too. Gah, can't be everywhere! I got a lot done at home, good enough.

Will still be interested when you learn more. I'd love to know they are on the up and up!


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
KuruPrionz #3066549 10/19/20 05:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
I didn't even think of it. I haven't had a TV in decades and don't subscribe to any movie channels online so I'm not really used to watching anything on schedule.
Busy cleaning and de-cluttering all weekend.

Plus, as pointed out above, I have no discretionary income at the moment.

I'm pretty sure it was free on YouTube Music. I didn't see it either, though...deadlines are looming, so I had to spend the last few days working on a video that's going to be shown at Music China.

Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Doerfler #3066619 10/19/20 10:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
They actually sent me their tax return, which I thought was pretty righteous and I could really get in the weeds. In my opinion, it's okay although there are significant (but not out-of-line) fees for operating expenses etc. Highlights for 2019:

$11,216,985 Total revenue
$5,203,604 Grants (so they're at about 46% for programs)
$1,542,585 Salaries and employee benefits. The CEO works 50 hours a week and makes $250,000, which is in the top 20% for non-profit CEO salaries but not unreasonable for an organization of this scope and location. The COO and two executive directors make $150,000, $209,734, and $255,878. That's pretty much it for salaries.
$4,350,146 Other expenses. These include IT ($183,073), travel ($624,874), meals and entertainment ($486,521), bank and merchant fees ($57,073), video and photography ($43,821), other expenses $79,047, etc.
They have significant consulting expenses and program service expenses, but do not have to spend much on fundraising. Most of their revenue is from grants and contributions.

I also checked out the organizations to which they contribute. Many of them involve children's causes, medical research, orphans, adoption, animal shelters, etc. No complaints there at all.

Bear in mind that the Better Business Bureau says no more that 35% of an non-profit's budget should be spent on operating expenses, so as far as I can tell from their taxes, The Giving Back Fund spends more than that. They fall more in the "average" range than the "really great" or "stay away" range.

So overall, I'd give them a clean bill of health in terms of not being a scam, and supporting what in my opinion are worthy causes (I checked some of these out too, quite a few are non-profits). However, your money would likely be spent more efficiently by giving it to local organizations directly. Unfortunately, with venues not open, there are limited ways to support them directly.

1 member likes this: Doerfler
Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Doerfler #3066631 10/20/20 12:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,843
Likes: 226
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 2,843
Likes: 226
^^Thanks for all that information Craig!!!! Sounds like they are working on doing good things. If they can build it to a higher level the percentages can improve.

You are correct, local and direct donations are the most efficient way to get the money where it is needed.
It seems an organization can focus that effort in a way that individual contributions may not be able to match.
There is a Seattle based organization with a mission statement regarding assisting the music venues in the the Northwest. I honestly don't know much more than that.

Finding new income streams of my own has kept me pretty busy. We were playing 3 nights a week most weeks and this summer we had a total of 6 outdoor gigs from May until Labor Day.
Getting kinda thin on the ground.

Our bandleader does not want to book any indoor gigs and neither do I. Currently, such activities are not allowed anyway.
Most venues would lose their asses paying for the heat and the staff with restricted attendance in place, which is the next level up. You simply cannot get enough cheeks in the seats to sell sufficient product.

So today I started working in Association Management again, has been a few years but it's not a bad way to keep the wheels on the wagon. I'm grateful for the opportunity at this point.


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Save Our Stages Fest 10/16-18/2020
Doerfler #3066636 10/20/20 01:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 9,389
Likes: 151
However - I should mention that I still have not received an answer from either organization about where the money is going to go. Rent? Salaries? Promoters who book for clubs?

I'm also not particularly happy about the 46% figure for what's spent on programs, but also as mentioned, it's somewhere in the average range.


Moderated by  Anderton 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4