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Roland RD-88


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I posted a few comments earlier on this page of the thread regarding the action. I do find it slightly quicker and less 'heavy' than that of my Stage 3, 76; it reminds me of the S90XS I once had, though the RD-88's action is graded vs. equally balanced (i.e. - Yamaha MOX(F) 8, S90XS, Motif 8 and MODX 8....). One similarity to The RD-300NX is the tendency to 'bottom out' easily. Practicing yesterday reminded me of that: The exercises and pieces I played didn't fatigue my hands, initially, but there was mild soreness/stiffness later on. That type of reaction rarely - if ever - happens on my Nord or Acoustic upright. Have to remember that it's easier to overplay on some of Roland's actions.

 

I've loaded in several Fantom 7 Tones. As individual instruments, using the Tone-based FX, they're essentially identical. Played side-by-side there's a slight clarity/sonic depth difference (Better DA converters in the Fantom,no doubt.), but live I don't think the averge audience would notice, or care. I attempted to re-create a original, 4-5 Tone Fantom Layer in the RD - using what I'd consider the three most essential Tones; it works very well - with similar caveats to those mentioned above. Even with two Tones it works okay, as I sometimes use that signature sound with organ split to the LH (I've set up similar instances in my Fantom, Stage 3 and MODX). For a layered clavitar/velocity-based synth comp patch, it can still sound massive when slammed - even with two Tones. The RD appears more than capable of delving out competitively large synth sounds; it has a healthy amount of Fantom mojo happening.

 

Great news! Now I have to get a Fantom next.

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AFAIK, plain zen-core patches (not ones that require particular additional engines) can be transferred to any compatible model. The number of elements are the same. Though the number of patches you can split or layer are different, of course, so even though individual patches can be moved, you can't necessarily recreate the same *combinations* of patches.

 

I was chewing on this little hangnail over in the Zenology cousin to this thread. My Sweetwater rep asked the in-house Roland rep what was up. He said the RD-88's ability to use cross-patches from their Cloud's >ZENOLOGY< engine was "pending," which loosely sounds like a pending firmware update. That'll work! It makes me wish I needed an RD-88, because I love the added insider-powers that come with things like new Korg Mini/Prologue oscillator engines. I look forward to hearing from the first few who use Zen-core as their hidden "synth module" in a live setting. Its a very good, sci-fi sort of utility. :thu:

 

Yeah, the Italian article I quoted says similar things about total Zenology compatibility between Zen Core instruments, including the RD-88.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I did a gig with the RD-88 this past Saturday night, and my feelings are somewhat mixed. The music I had to cover was enough of a variety that I got a good taste of what the instrument can do live. The synth tones, clavs and EPs did very well; the pianos are becoming my love/hate relationship factor. Still not a deal breaker, yet; but good grief, if Roland had to cut corners on this one (understandable for a $1300 keyboard, vs $2500 for the big RD) why take it out of the piano envelopes? Whille the rock and uptempo country stuff was covered okay, the decay shortness messed with my head on ballads, etc.. And that's the problem: while it likely isn't discernable by an audience, it does affect how I play particular material.

 

aellison62 and I have shared ideas about these concerns, and he did come up with a layered piano Scene that helps somewhat; so I'd use that for now if a solo gig came up (hoping to do some nursing home/assisted living playing around the holidays - like I did for my mom's place last year.) I also created a couple of alternative Scenes - trying out different Zen-Core samples, lenthening decay, and adjusting filter parameters slightly. While all of that sounded okay in the confines of my home workspace, it had a very 'off' presence in a band setting. So I went back to one of the Bright Concert Grands and a couple of the Expressive Grand choices - then dealt with the pre-2010 Privia-type envelopes. Speaking of which, perhaps a PX-560 might've been a better choice; the current Privias spank the RD pianos for eveness and solid envelope carry-through in high mids. But I love the control features of the RD-88, and the Zen-Core integration; Arrgghh.... If Kawai can nail the piano tone and shape for $800 (ES110), how hard can it be for Roland to do the same with the RD-88. Give us one, solid piano that's definitive and rings through, for $800 then use the remaining $499 of the MAP price to cover ZEN-Core and the controller stuff.

 

I can only hope Roland gives us a better envelope-balanced piano in the next system update (or via Roland Cloud).

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I haven't been following Allans RD 88 reviews but I gather that there may be some issues with this latest Supernatural piano release.

 

I have had mixed feelings about the Supernaturals going back to 300 nx and 700 nx. Which has led me to keep and appreciate my circa 2010 rd 300GX.

 

The RD 88 seemed interesting to me in light of the fact that to me the Yamama MODX8 has a compromised action and is quite a bit more money than the RD88.

 

The GC stores in my area are not stocking Rolands and they have even discontinued the FP 10 apparently

 

Which means you have to buy something like an RD 88 on faith wow.

 

Have had my eye on a used RD 64 in my area...any thoghts on that?

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I haven't been following Allans RD 88 reviews but I gather that there may be some issues with this latest Supernatural piano release.

I have had mixed feelings about the Supernaturals going back to 300 nx and 700 nx. Which has led me to keep and appreciate my circa 2010 rd 300GX.

The RD 88 seemed interesting to me in light of the fact that to me the Yamama MODX8 has a compromised action and is quite a bit more money than the RD88.

The GC stores in my area are not stocking Rolands and they have even discontinued the FP 10 apparently

Which means you have to buy something like an RD 88 on faith wow.

Have had my eye on a used RD 64 in my area...any thoghts on that?

 

I saw the thread you started on the RD64; looks like one to stay away from... Not sure what else I'd recommend that has <88 keys but is pianistically weighted. There is the Yamaha P121, but it doesn't have RD-style control features. Kurzweil, which has typically been friendlier for 76 key varieties, doesn't use weighted actions in those. Nord is better, but a Stage 3,76 seems overkill for what you're trying to do.

 

I wonder - and only partly in jest - if Roland has two, wildly different project managers making executive engineering decisions on variously assigned SN pianos; one that loves pianos that ring out, another that prefers a tighter/shorter back end on envelopes. I gigged an RD-300NX when living in Colorado and recall a decay issue with the pianos, similar to the one in the RD-88. However, the FP-50 I used as a practice and teaching tool had a much more natural envelope shape in the high mids. You might get along okay with an RD76 - if one was made, though the RD-88 is insanely light and having pitch/mod above helps keep the length more reasonable than some other 88s. The Expressive Grand Tones are a little better, to me; I did stretch the envelope slightly today on one; so far I think I can live with it. Another thing I'm going to try is setting up a split Scene with duplicate Tones on each side, then lengthening the decay of the high-mid positioned Tone.

 

I talked to Roland customer/technical support earlier today. Though the RD-88 works with Macs and PCs, it does not play nice with iOS devices. So no MIDI over USB for favorite iOS apps. That's just weird, especially when entry-level Casio keyboards are USB-MIDI class compliant with almost anything. I did find a workaround - Roland UM-1, MK2 to the RD's MIDI Out port, then the USB A end to Apple CCK. Sure would be much simpler with a USB cable though.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Probably everyone has deal breakers that are unique to them when evaluating digital pianos

I have had problems with Yamaha keybeds over the years. Unless you are getting a Yamaha with the wooden keys you may be asking for trouble.

....

I have never understood was Casios are so popular...to me there is an obvious mid range plunkiness that just does not compete with Yamaha Roland Korg etc.

 

I was quite surprised by how much I liked the FP 30 sample but really didn't feel it offered enough for 700 dollars

Roland must have thought so too because the FP 10 came in at 500 dollars which was priced competitively with lightweight Casio and Yamahas.

 

One reason I am interested in the seemingly unavailable FP 10 is for simplicity

There is no way that I am going to spend 2000 on a Yamaha MODX

.. I will never fully understand it! I just want piano and electric piano.. Not that I expect decent Ep for 500 dollars thpugh

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I talked to Roland customer/technical support earlier today. Though the RD-88 works with Macs and PCs, it does not play nice with iOS devices. So no MIDI over USB for favorite iOS apps. That's just weird, especially when entry-level Casio keyboards are USB-MIDI class compliant with almost anything. I did find a workaround - Roland UM-1, MK2 to the RD's MIDI Out port, then the USB A end to Apple CCK. Sure would be much simpler with a USB cable though.

 

I am using usb midi with iOS without issues, but agree with you about usb-audio - not working with iOS - hope there is a firmware update to improve, as yam modx. Otherwise, I'm really happy with my rd-88, although haven't had a chance to gig with it much! Action and sounds are fine for me (mainly jazz). I was tempted by modx8 but for me, keyboard not really pianistic. The only real surprise with rd-88 is the physical depth - doesn't work with all stands for gigging, unless you have a highly adjustable stool.

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I talked to Roland customer/technical support earlier today. Though the RD-88 works with Macs and PCs, it does not play nice with iOS devices. So no MIDI over USB for favorite iOS apps. That's just weird, especially when entry-level Casio keyboards are USB-MIDI class compliant with almost anything. I did find a workaround - Roland UM-1, MK2 to the RD's MIDI Out port, then the USB A end to Apple CCK. Sure would be much simpler with a USB cable though.

 

I am using usb midi with iOS without issues, but agree with you about usb-audio - not working with iOS - hope there is a firmware update to improve, as yam modx.

 

 

PeterNH - Great that you are able to connect directly from the RD-88's USB port to an iOS device and get a solid, MIDI connection to play sounds on iOS apps. I used an Apple Camera Connector Kit, yet was unable to get sound. Though I'd checked the correct toggles within the RD to be sending MIDI over USB to my iPad (a 2015 iPad Air 2), and had confirmed correct MIDI channels on the iPad, the app did not show incoming signal nor produce sound. The Roland rep I spoke to was fairly thorough in checking all that. What I did notice is that when using the USB port, the RD-88 was not listed as a control choice within an IOS app; 'Network Session 1' was the only option. Yet when I use the RD's 5-pin MIDI Out - via the UM-1, MK2 MIDI to USB adapter - the UM-1 also appears in the iOS app as control choice; only then am I able to play the software instrument.

 

Wondering if I missed something in the process, or if you're doing something different, or addtional to make this work. It would be much better to not rely on the specialized UM-1, vs a simple and easily available USB cable.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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IOS in general:

 

5-pin MIDI always works. USB for MIDI should also always work if the device is USB MIDI class compliant. Simultaneous AUDIO over USB (which has nothing to do wth MIDI) is something different and may or may not be supported.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Yep, I've been using 5-pin MIDI in this instance. Too bad that the RD-88 isn't at least class compliant for all USB MIDI applications. I recall reading something similar with a different model; for some reason drivers were required for Mac/PC connection, and there was an Apple/iOS conflict (?) with such drivers being able to work on iOS. Would be so much better if Roland just followed Casio's lead on full class compliancy.

 

There is an RD-88 thread over at MPN GearLab Reviews forum. I added a 'review, so far' to it last night; CLONK here.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Cheers!

Nice to read the decay problem isn"t bothering you as much as it did at first.

 

 

Yes, playing it steadily the past several days helped me bond with two particular piano Scenes: one being the original SN Concert Grand, with some EQ tweaks, the other being a hybrid of the SN Concert Grand and a Zen-Core Pop Piano - which is a original Scene that aellison62 shared with me. I also adjusted the System Velocity to 'Heavy' and then dialed that back up slightly toward 'Medium'. Feels like the fingers-to-ears connection is falling into place.

 

Still not thrilled with the limited data control of the button pad, but can live with that. Hoping there may be an OS-update solution that might allow for reassigning a knob for data control, at the System level.

 

Meanwhile, the 3,000 Tones are quite the vault of material. After doing a quick study of the RD, then throwing together some Scenes for a recent gig, it's good to have begun exploring those Tones more in depth. Lots of history there, and some solid sounding material. The SN EPs - especially the Rhodes variations - are insanely good; the velocity match to the key action is tasty.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The upper end Rolands offer a wider range of touch sensitivity whereas many Yamahas I have had offer only three increments.

 

We just aren't seeing many Rolands in my area. It would be interesting to hear an RD 88 but I don't see it happening.

 

I had a chance to a/b an FP 30 vs RD2000 about a year ago and the FP 30 sounded less edgy to me. I liked the fact that the 30 had no plunkiness compared to any Casios I tried

 

I just wonder how different the RDb88 acoustic sample is...right now around here there are a few FP 30s and apparently some FP10s at Costco.

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I agree the fp 30 was dissimilar to the RD 2000 yes

 

But to me dissimilar. In a good way.

 

I haven't had enough hands on time with the 2000 to really know what it is capable of. It doesn't help that I never get to see one

 

But thank you for info on less expensive models. My impression was that FP 30 was my preference in the lightweight portable class so I hope similar in the FP 10

..because it's light weight

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Yeah, lots of people prefer the RD2000"s V-Piano to the SuperNatural. But almost as many people prefer the latter to the former. You won"t be disappointed with the RD88, as it includes SuperNatural acoustic as well as e-pianos plus 3000 other sounds from Roland"s famous sonic history. It also includes (home) speakers and even MainStage compatibility. All-in-all the piano sounds and action will be quite reminiscent of that FP30 you played.
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0I finally got to play the FP 10 action at Costco yesterday.

 

Apparently it is the same action as the RD88.I am curious to hear comments about the action from people who own the RD88.

 

Sound wise the FP 10 sounded very good through headphones. I had a bit of trouble adjusting touch sensitivity...the sample seemed a bit bright and would benefit from having sensitivity backed off

 

The thing that struck me as being very good about the FP 10 sample was how even the tones were in relationship to each other.

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0I finally got to play the FP 10 action at Costco yesterday.

Apparently it is the same action as the RD-88.I am curious to hear comments about the action from people who own the RD88.

Sound wise the FP 10 sounded very good through headphones. I had a bit of trouble adjusting touch sensitivity...the sample seemed a bit bright and would benefit from having sensitivity backed off

The thing that struck me as being very good about the FP 10 sample was how even the tones were in relationship to each other.

 

I like the action of the RD88. So far I find it less fatiguing than that of the Stage 3, 76 for piano/EP. The most recent gig I did - and likely last gig until 2021 - was with the RD-88, bottom tier and Stage 3-76, top tier. Played most of that gig's piano parts on the RD, and did notice less hand stiffness the next morning.

 

LX88, similar to your experience with the FP10 I also found the RD88's tones to be fairly even in relationship to one another. The decay in the upper mids is slightly shorter than some other DPs, but I've become somewhat used to it now. There are several piano choices, EQ options and velocity adjustments that can be done, so I don't think you'd have trouble dialing in the touch to your liking.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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That action is on a lot of Rolands. it would possibly take me some getting used to....but I hear that it has advantages like escarpment.

 

Just about every supernatural sample I have heard sounds a bit bright to me. I usually dial in a hard touch to just about anything...For whatever reason manufacturers seem to think consumers like it bright....reminding me of a Baldwin acrosonic . Touch adjustment can sometimes address this.

.

Also interesting that you hear decay issues on RD 88. The FP 10 seemed pretty good in this regard...one reason I am interested in it.

 

Right now the FP 10 is then only newer Roland piano in my area... But at least I get to know that action.

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Just about every supernatural sample I have heard sounds a bit bright to me.

Yes, though to me, it's not just the brightness per se, more than that, it's the *difference* in brightness between the low velocity and high velocity strikes. It seems exaggerated to me, there seems to be more tonal variation with velocity than I'd expect out of an actual piano. My guess is that maybe the more advanced Rolands with a slew of editable parameters might allow you to dial that out, but as shipped, that's the issue I've generally had with Roland pianos. And I'm not even saying it's necessarily unpleasant, I can see people finding it perfectly enjoyable. I'm just saying that, to me, it makes it seem less realistic, if that's your goal. Unless maybe there are some real pianos that play like that, and I just haven't come across them!

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Just about every supernatural sample I have heard sounds a bit bright to me.

Yes, though to me, it's not just the brightness per se, more than that, it's the *difference* in brightness between the low velocity and high velocity strikes. It seems exaggerated to me, there seems to be more tonal variation with velocity than I'd expect out of an actual piano. My guess is that maybe the more advanced Rolands with a slew of editable parameters might allow you to dial that out, but as shipped, that's the issue I've generally had with Roland pianos. And I'm not even saying it's necessarily unpleasant, I can see people finding it perfectly enjoyable. I'm just saying that, to me, it makes it seem less realistic, if that's your goal. Unless maybe there are some real pianos that play like that, and I just haven't come across them!

I agree, Scott. For piano, I mostly use a third-party program in my Kronos, but occasionally when I need the Kronos for other things, I use the Supernatural pianos in my Jupiter-80 and have observed the phenomena you described. I've found it not to be a problem for banging out rock tunes, perhaps even a complimentary attribute for that genre.

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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I would love to hear the rd88...but it doesn't look like that is going to happen soon.....

 

There are reasons why I am looking to Roland though. I am so sick of Yamahas crappy interface.... I picked up a cheap CP 5 about a year ago and I still don't understand it. Calling the sounds "performances"....really?Don't get me started.

 

I have spoken about the rd300gx many times. How about its nearly infinite touch sensitivity adjust ment. Also it has a fantastic key bed that has not developed issues in 10 years. And a rhodes that is one of my favorites still

 

So I am looking more toward Roland. I won't have another Yamaha interface crazymaker.

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Isn't the modx key bed the same as the lightweight portables? I would have to check the thread...sorry I can't remember.

 

I got a Yamaha p45 about 2 years ago and it has developed noise. So I am not in love with Yamaha action at this point.

 

A lot of actions I am playing feel cheaply made these days. I am still on the fence about rd88/ fp 10 action.I really would have to spend time to be sure... Probably I will spend more time at Costco on fp 10.

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When I last played the fp10, I noticed the touch sensitivity seemed pretty granular. That is, the volume/timbre changed in pretty big increments as you played a note harder, and it was difficult to play a soft note.

 

The modx action does seem to be the same as the p45, but I"ve adjusted to it, even for jazz (my other keyboard is a CP4, which I"m getting close to calling redundant to the modx). I do not play classical, though, which I imagine would require the 'best' action you could find. As far as a noisy keybed goes, i have not found mine to be noisy after playing it for close to a year, and the AP selections are very good to my ears; I sold a Kurzweil SP6 after trying to like the APs for several months, but couldn"t get the dynamic range I wanted out of it.

 

That said, people have been more positive about the keybed that"s in the RD88 than in the lightweight Yamaha keyboards. The trick will be to play the keyboard you are actually interested in from Roland, not a different low end Roland keyboard that happens to have the same keybed. They may use the same keys, but the electronics used to create the sound can be totally different.

CA93, MODX8, YC88, K8.2
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The MODX keybeds are ... pretty cheap.

Roland RD88"s PHA-4 action is way better than the MODX8.

Even the Kurzweil PC4 has the MODX8 keybed for lunch.

 

 

I have both, and much prefer the RD88's action. But the interface preference clearly goes to the MODX8. Heck, I'd take the MX-88 interface over that of the comparably priced RD-88; the MX-88 has Inc/Dec buttons and a data dial. Love the sounds, action and built-in speakers of the RD-88; but feel that Roland dropped the ball with the single mode of data entry.

 

I've looked into some options for app-based data entry to improve that and patch selection, but so far nothing fits the bill. MIDI Commander for Android works okay with my RD, but doesn't quite do what I'm seeking - namely to simply enter single patch changes in real time (or at least spin a data wheel at warp speed :laugh:). It appears that there are a couple closer, iOS-based solutions. Unfortunately The RD88 is not USB/MIDI compatable with iOS devices, so a no-go there for now. What I'll do for now is pre-program as much a variety of patch choices as Favorite Scenes, and go from there. I did consider replacing the RD with a Kurz SP6 - due mostly to the much stronger front panel interface, but the amount and quality of sounds keeps me with the RD; also have become used to the built-in speakers, though I could use a non-speakered instrument with the the very light QSC CP-8 I have.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Wow...the modx action in the same as p45...

 

I have a P45 and the action went to hell pretty early on. It is noisy...when you just lightly touch the keys there is a noticable click sound.

 

Which is why I am looking to Roland at this time.

 

That's interesting that you mention MX88. I am demoing a MX49 that I have on a GC 30 day trial and I hate the interface. They didn't have a manual with it and all I have is a phone for internet. The online manual doesn't help much.

 

I like the MODX but there is no way I would pay that money with that action. Yamaha is famous for replacing whole Keynes's in CP 33 era.

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