ABECK Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 I fall in that camp, Rod S. EVH was my gateway into playing keys. So, I've always had an affinity towards his playing and gear (and, there isn't a lot of info published or filmed featuring his keys, so they've always been shrouded in a bit of mystery - that adds to the allure). I know the vid - it's an absolute train wreck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod S Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Found it: [video:youtube] Quote Korg Kronos X73 / ARP Odyssey / Motif ES Rack / Roland D-05 / JP-08 / SE-05 / Jupiter Xm / Novation Mininova / NL2X / Waldorf Pulse II MBP-LOGIC American Deluxe P-Bass, Yamaha RBX760 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I fall in that camp, Rod S. EVH was my gateway into playing keys. You too? I'm always a little hesitant to share that story around here. Found it: [video:youtube] Here's the original version, I don't know why the copy exists. The comments are worth reading, too. [video:youtube] Quote "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotiDave Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 There's an old VH video where they were playing against audio tracks instead of MIDI (might have been Jump), that the system malfunctioned and playing out of tune, and Eddie was transposing the song trying (and failing) to match the pitch. It's been a while, I'll try to find the video. 1984 and 5150 were in my teens. All keyboard players were learning these tunes. i think that was a fairly (??) recent tour - feels like within the last couple yrs but maybe time slips by. It was after they had fired Michael Anthony. It was posted here somewhere. it was jump - pretty funny - ouch. Quote The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 While there is plenty of debate on that concert, the keys are very clearly exactly 1/2 step high. I would think somebody of EVH's caliber could transpose up 1 fret on the fly. Quote Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABECK Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 Yeah...who knows. His muscle memory is so deep on that stuff, he probably doesn't even really think about what he's playing. Transposing on the fly would require some thinking. lol. Also - there were several years on those reunion tours where he was bombed out of his mind all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 I have a theory that his hearing is probably shot. By the time they reunited with DLR for said tour, Eddie was supposed to be sober, for realz this time. Quote "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted July 24, 2018 Share Posted July 24, 2018 Transposing on the fly would require some thinking. Especially for a technique that relies heavily on open strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABECK Posted July 24, 2018 Author Share Posted July 24, 2018 Open strings...sounds like a guitar player's problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABECK Posted October 8, 2020 Author Share Posted October 8, 2020 Zombie thread alert! (Well, sort of) But, as Bill Murray said in Zombieland "I just saw Eddie Van Halen." "How is he?" "He's a zombie." Back to the topic at hand - earlier in the thread, there were some questions about what piano (sampled or otherwise) he used in the 5150/OU812 era. I had assumed sampled because of the unrealistic hammer sounds. But, having read the article under the studio pic, it indicates he lacquered the hammers on his 2 grand pianos to get a brighter sound. Classic EVH - if it doesn't sound the way I want, MAKE it sound the way I want. RIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 While there is plenty of debate on that concert, the keys are very clearly exactly 1/2 step high. I would think somebody of EVH's caliber could transpose up 1 fret on the fly. Sure, if that was actually the case...but as I understand it, the problem that night was that the sample playback rate was set wrong - like, 48k when it was supposed to be 44.1.or something like that - so it's not exactly a half step up, it's a place you can't get to with standard tuning. dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABECK Posted October 8, 2020 Author Share Posted October 8, 2020 Simple mistake, catastrophic results. Noel Monk talked in his book how Dave would have post concert meetings on the bus after shows and just rip into people if things weren't to his liking. Not sure if he mellowed in his older years, but I can imagine someone felt his wrath that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve in VA Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Wow, I saw Van Halen on the OU812 tour in October, 1988 in Richmond, VA. I was the ripe old age of 16 at the time. Great show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docbop Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Took a quick scan of this thread and did see it. Anyone know who played keyboards for Van Halen tours. Were they on-stage or behind the stage like many bands did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 It wasn't the keys track that was off. Except for "1984", the song was purposely done in C# for hits tour. He was handed, or grabbed the wrong guitar that was in standard E tuning. Go and listen to the very first show on this tour, 2 nights before the train wreck. The keys on "Jump" are identical pitch to the disaster video, and Eddie's guitar is right on. I randomly found some other clips from that tour after the disaster. Oct 1 2007, and May 23 2008. Jump still in C#, Eddie's guitar perfectly in tune with song. Quote David Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABECK Posted October 8, 2020 Author Share Posted October 8, 2020 Well done! That is THE most logical explanation to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogika Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 It wasn't the keys track that was off. Except for "1984", the song was purposely done in C# for hits tour. He was handed, or grabbed the wrong guitar that was in standard E tuning. Go and listen to the very first show on this tour, 2 nights before the train wreck. The keys on "Jump" are identical pitch to the disaster video, and Eddie's guitar is right on. I randomly found some other clips from that tour after the disaster. Oct 1 2007, and May 23 2008. Jump still in C#, Eddie's guitar perfectly in tune with song. Here's the clip: [video:youtube] (song starts at about 1:25) I'm not seeing how a guitar in standard E tuning would sound like that, under any circumstances. Quote "The Angels of Libra are in the European vanguard of the [retro soul] movement" (Bill Buckley, Soul and Jazz and Funk) The Drawbars | off jazz organ trio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 Well, regardless, that"s the pitch of Jump for that entire tour Quote David Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polkahero Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Why would they move the key of the song UP by a half step? Quote '57 Hammond B-3, '60 Hammond A100, Leslie 251, Leslie 330, Leslie 770, Leslie 145, Hammond PR-40 Trek II UC-1A Alesis QSR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksoper Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Simple mistake, catastrophic results. Noel Monk talked in his book how Dave would have post concert meetings on the bus after shows and just rip into people if things weren't to his liking. Not sure if he mellowed in his older years, but I can imagine someone felt his wrath that day. "I"m up there workin" my balls off tryin" to do somebody a favor and you motherfuckers are suckin" all over this joint. What kind of trumpet section do you call this tonight? And saxophones! You gotta fuckin" be kiddin" me!" Quote 9 Moog things, 3 Roland things, 2 Hammond things and a computer with stuff on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABECK Posted October 9, 2020 Author Share Posted October 9, 2020 At the risk of beating the "Jump Disaster" into the ground, I'll continue unapologetically. What we know: The backing track is transposed up 1 semi-tone. Previous shows on the same tour were the same. (Agreed, who transposes UP??? but that's what they did). So, the 44.1/48 sample rate theory doesn't really fit. Eddie comes in playing somewhere BETWEEN C and C# on his opening note. He walks over to his stack as if to say...what the shit am I hearing? He then proceeded to try and bend his way into pitch, causing a giant dumpster fire and eventually just plays in the wrong tuning. So....either the guitar he was given was in standard tuning, or it was just not tuned well (Highly unlikely). I have spoken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin Funster Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 I'd check this but I wont because it's too much work; What other keyboard songs were played at the show? Compared to the album were these other keyboard songs also transposed? Quote FunMachine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABECK Posted October 9, 2020 Author Share Posted October 9, 2020 Or just in general, were they tuning up most songs during those shows? I'm sure curiosity will get the best of me and I'll investigate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxcvbnm098 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Simple mistake, catastrophic results. Noel Monk talked in his book how Dave would have post concert meetings on the bus after shows and just rip into people if things weren't to his liking. Not sure if he mellowed in his older years, but I can imagine someone felt his wrath that day. "I"m up there workin" my balls off tryin" to do somebody a favor and you motherfuckers are suckin" all over this joint. What kind of trumpet section do you call this tonight? And saxophones! You gotta fuckin" be kiddin" me!" The ghost of Buddy still inhabits many a performer, I'm sure...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Or just in general, were they tuning up most songs during those shows? I'm sure curiosity will get the best of me and I'll investigate. I'm bored so I have done some research combing thru recordings of shows from the 2007/2008 tour. From the samples I listened to," Jump" is the only song played 1/2 step up from original. They also played "I'll Wait," and that was in regular, original key. I then went back and forth on a bunch of the standard non-keys VH tunes played on that tour, and they were all regular original key. Lastly, it wasn't just a few show that "Jump" was up 1/2 step... it was all of them, at least the 14 dates I randomly chose across the tour, including first tour date, a middle tour date, and a neaer the endof tour date. As far as the why, we may never know. Now get this: Just pulled up concert from 1992/1993 tour with Sammy. Out of all the songs, JUMP is a 1/2 step up from original recording, just like the 2007/2008 tour. Fast forward to 2015 with DLR back up front. JUMP is 1/2 step higher than recording. Quote David Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABECK Posted October 9, 2020 Author Share Posted October 9, 2020 Hmmm....ok, so other than some odd reason why a vocalist would want it up, is there a reason why a guitarist would want it up a 1/2 step? Is C a shitty key for guitars to play in? Let's see...he tunes his guitars down a 1/2 step on a lot of songs. So in Eb tuning, maybe it's just easier to play in C# than C? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin Funster Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Other than the solo there is practically no important guitar in jump. Just droning 8th note power chording. C or C# is the same effort. . Ok there is the prechorus record machine fill but I doubt key matters there. Quote FunMachine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 After much research, this is what I have found about Jump and live performance 1984: C 1986: C 1991-1993: D 1995: C# 1998: C# 2004: C# 2007: C# Etc They went to D a couple years and then 'down' 1/2 step to C# as Sammy got older and of course kept it there when DLR came back. Even the kinda cringy performance of it on Ellen in 2015, it"s clearly C#. And when you look closely Eddie is playing around the D formations Quote David Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Hmmm....ok, so other than some odd reason why a vocalist would want it up, is there a reason why a guitarist would want it up a 1/2 step? Is C a shitty key for guitars to play in? Let's see...he tunes his guitars down a 1/2 step on a lot of songs. So in Eb tuning, maybe it's just easier to play in C# than C? From the same source, people have said all the little things that Eddie does is easier to play in D. So they tube down 1/2 step to get C# while still playing it in 'D' Quote David Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin Funster Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Maybe its easier for Eddie to play the Jump keyboard solo passage in the chosen position. I myself fake this part as dumb triplets because I'm not good enough but no one but keyboard players ever care. Quote FunMachine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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