Yamaha CP88 and 73 - Deserve their own thread

[ElmerJFudd]

"The new OS v1.4 builds upon the keyboards' previous update, CP OS v1.3, with two added Voices for greater studio and performance options. The new Nashville C3 Voice offers players an inspiring vintage grand piano sound with the characteristic sounds of Nashville. The samples were processed using analog tape at Yamaha Entertainment Group studios in order to create its vintage character. The new CF3 Live Voice was added at players' request for the second characteristic sound of the Yamaha CP300 stage piano after the addition of the CFIII acoustic grand piano in the previous update. The CP300 is known for being able to cut through dense arrangements, with a bright, powerful sound. The Voice has been optimized for an even better presence in a mix and will be featured prominently in large line-ups.

 

 

CP OS v1.4 expands the Sub Section--a popular choice of the keyboards' three sections--for added flexibility and creativity when it comes to creating sonic spaces. New pads, strings, synths, a powerful Sforzando Brass Section and both a classical and Western guitar have been added to the Sub Section's current selection of strings, brass and synths.

 

In response to musicians' feedback, the update also includes workflow enhancements making it easier to navigate and adjust settings and menus. The Voice selection window now features a list view so players can select sounds with ease."

 

https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/cp88_cp73_os.html

[drawback]

Can anyone confirm that the sustain pedal can be programmed to sustain both sides of a split? Or if it"s uneditable, what is the default?

[Outkaster]

Very strange Jason. Do you need it? I can download it for you and send it if you PM me your email address?

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

 

Not sure what's wrong. Keeps failing?

[rickzjamm]

The same organ in the sub section... what is it about Yamaha & organ sounds? Not a critique but an observation.

[ElmerJFudd]

Very strange Jason. Do you need it? I can download it for you and send it if you PM me your email address?

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

 

Not sure what's wrong. Keeps failing?

 

 

I did this successfully for a friend. I formatted the thumb drive on the CP88. Yamaha says this is necessary, not sure what"s different about it as I then plugged it into my HP laptop and it read just the same as always. Anyway, dropped the unzipped update file into the thumb drive at the top level - no folders or any other files on the drive. Turned off the CP88, plugged in the drive - held down the menu and store buttons while powering up and pressed enter when it asked if I want to update. When done you power cycle and you"re back in business.

[AnotherScott]

The same organ in the sub section... what is it about Yamaha & organ sounds? Not a critique but an observation.

AFAIK, the organs are still among the best Yamaha has done in a board without a dedicated organ design (the organs seem to be from the Montage, from which I believe the basic architecture of these CPs are derived). I'm not sure anyone else has done much better. I mean, what board without an organ engine do you think sounds significantly better? I think the CP organs may already be about about as good as a rompler (or rompler+FM) has been, i.e. about all to expect from the underlying achitecture/technology of the board. So organ selection seems okay to me, for a stage piano, enough to get you by if you need occasional organ.

 

I'm more surprised that there's still no violin, no trumpet, no non-synthy choir. Or for a board that is so oriented to piano/EP, that such short shrift is given to clav, not even covering the 4 basic pickup sounds (which the competitive piano/EP focussed boards like Korg SV1/SV2, Nord Piano, Crumar Seven, Legend 70s with Clav option all do).

[rickzjamm]

To be fair ( my observation), Yamaha does some amazing things with APs, EPs,... I'm a huge fan of all their products especially the stage pianos. I wouldn't expect any board to do everything, the weight alone would need a fork lift for every gig.

I'm happy with my CP88 except the organ, maybe a future update for that is on the horizon... IMHO.

[drawback]

Can anyone confirm that the sustain pedal can be programmed to sustain both sides of a split? Or if it"s uneditable, what is the default?

 

Anyone?

[AnotherScott]

if no one answers, it's probably easily determined from the manual.

[drawback]

I"ve checked the manual before posting each time...

[AnotherScott]

Hmmm! Well, you can determine whether sustain pedal is on or off for any of the (up too) 4 external MIDI zones (that's the "Tx SW Sustain" parameter), but yeah, I don't see a sustain pedal switch for internal sounds in the manual either, which is surprising! I wonder if the default ight not be a matter of what it will do on either side of a split as you suggest, but maybe it has a different operation depending on which sound you select...?

[counterpoint]

Can anyone confirm that the sustain pedal can be programmed to sustain both sides of a split? Or if it"s uneditable, what is the default?

 

I have the YC but looked at the CP manual and it looks identical to me (see page 36). You can assign sustain pedal to be active or inactive per Voice section under Settings/Controllers/Receive SW. The default is "On" for all Voice sections. To the extent you assign one Voice section on one side of a split and another on the other, you could have sustain on one side but not the other....or on both or neither.

[drawback]

Can anyone confirm that the sustain pedal can be programmed to sustain both sides of a split? Or if it"s uneditable, what is the default?

 

I have the YC but looked at the CP manual and it looks identical to me (see page 36). You can assign sustain pedal to be active or inactive per Voice section under Settings/Controllers/Receive SW. The default is "On" for all Voice sections. To the extent you assign one Voice section on one side of a split and another on the other, you could have sustain on one side but not the other....or on both or neither.

 

Thank you! A long time ago Yamaha DPs defaulted to sustain on both sides of a split, but there were no editing functions. I learned to prefer my LHB with sustain. Kind of like playing single bass-style notes to accompany a right hand voice leading chordal style. Later (I think it might have been a Yamaha P250) the default was for the left side to be "Off" with no option to change it. I contacted Yamaha Support and their answer to me was "Why would you want to do that?" IIRC beginning with the P300 and most CPs allowed for full pedal function edits.

 

Anyway, no control over split sustain functions is a deal-breaker for me.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Here's the video for OS v1.4 that was linked earlier. From the video, I find the sounds to be improvements compared to what was available initially when I tried out the CP88.

 

[video:youtube]

[Morrissey]

fyi - I noticed one online music vendor with a special relationship with KC is currently advertising a limited time $200 off the CP73. Most other shops still listing regular street price.

[ChazKeys]

Can anyone confirm that the sustain pedal can be programmed to sustain both sides of a split? Or if it"s uneditable, what is the default?

 

I have the YC but looked at the CP manual and it looks identical to me (see page 36). You can assign sustain pedal to be active or inactive per Voice section under Settings/Controllers/Receive SW. The default is "On" for all Voice sections. To the extent you assign one Voice section on one side of a split and another on the other, you could have sustain on one side but not the other....or on both or neither.

 

Thank you! A long time ago Yamaha DPs defaulted to sustain on both sides of a split, but there were no editing functions. I learned to prefer my LHB with sustain. Kind of like playing single bass-style notes to accompany a right hand voice leading chordal style. Later (I think it might have been a Yamaha P250) the default was for the left side to be "Off" with no option to change it. I contacted Yamaha Support and their answer to me was "Why would you want to do that?" IIRC beginning with the P300 and most CPs allowed for full pedal function edits.

 

Anyway, no control over split sustain functions is a deal-breaker for me.

 

Are you asking if you can just assign Sustain to the Upper or Lower part on the CP 73? So for example LHB no sustain while the upper split has sustain for the piano? As counterpoint says this can be done on the CP73/88

 

The CP73 has a separate controllers menu for the internal sounds. The Receive SW option allows you to freely assign Expression or Sustain to any combination of the three parts. It's not a question of Upper or Lower split but do you want sustain on Piano, EP or Sub. You can then split/layer as you need.

 

The CP73 is even more flexible when used as a controller keyboard.

[ChazKeys]

fyi - I noticed one online music vendor with a special relationship with KC is currently advertising a limited time $200 off the CP73. Most other shops still listing regular street price.

 

In Europe the CP73 price is all over the place. I think because the CP73 is a relatively new stage piano and Covid stopped all the gigs, so no demand for a new stage piano, there are some retailers who overstocked this item late last year. You can pick it up or £1232 ($1600 ish) in UK but in Germany Thomann are selling for £1499 and MusicStore £1599.

 

I reckon once the stock in the UK sells the price will go back up to £1349 or even higher post Brexit. Maybe Yamaha will drop it if the live scene doesn't pick up next year.

[thomsurf]

So, how is the instrument now after updates. That Nashville piano sounds pretty charming in the vids.

I have a Roland RD800 and wondering if it"s time to try something new. I like the idea of the CP88. Just a bit worried that DP progress hasn"t really moved that far ahead since 2014.

[stoken6]

Can any instrument owners tell me this: how good is the CP at being a simultaneous controller AND slave keyboard? Can it:

- Play its AP patch from its own keyboard, while simultaneously

- Controlling a layered strings patch from another keyboard, while simultaneously

- Playing a brass patch that's controlled from another keyboard

 

Can it get more complex:

- Play AP patch from its own keyboard, C3-C6,while simultaneously

- Playing upright bass patch from its own keyboard, E0-B3, while simultaneously

- Doing the strings thing and the brass thing above?

 

I've forensically examined the manual, and it doesn't seem to go into the detail of MIDI Receive capabilities. The MIDI controller capabilities seem pretty solid.

 

Cheer, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

Can any instrument owners tell me this: how good is the CP at being a simultaneous controller AND slave keyboard? Can it:

- Play its AP patch from its own keyboard, while simultaneously

- Controlling a layered strings patch from another keyboard, while simultaneously

- Playing a brass patch that's controlled from another keyboard

I don't have a CP, but I'd say, essentially, no. Like the YC, it appears that all internal sounds are on the same MIDI channel. To use your example, you would not be able to effectively do #1 and #3 at the same time, because its AP and brass patches would be on the same MIDI channel, so with both those sounds activated, it would generally be impossible for either the internal or external keys to play one of those sounds without playing the other.

 

The reason for my qualifiers is that there may technically be a semi-workaround for this. If you set the internal split point to F7 on the 73 or C#2 on the 88 (i.e. the key above the highest note on the keyboard), and then octave-shifted your external controller so that its keys would trigger notes above that point (if your controller has that ability), you'd be able to play the CP's lower sound from its own keys and its upper sound the external keys. You'd also have to octave-shift the upper sound down, and the most the CP lets you shift something down is two octaves. On the CP73, you'd only have 27 playable notes from your external board, and shifted down two octaves on the CP itself, that externally triggered sound wouldn't be able to get any lower than F5 (and you'd have only 19 keys going down no lower than C#6 on the CP88), so this would be of pretty limited usefullness, but maybe it could be have some use for someone. But for all intents and purposes (or at least most of them!), the answer to your question is effectively no.

 

Interestingly, the YC adds a feature that lets an external keyboard play one of its internal sounds even though they're all on the same MIDI channel, but that feature is not in the CP. So you might want to look at the YC88 or YC73 instead of the CP.

[stoken6]

Thanks as ever Scott, I suspected as much. I'm aware that the YCs do what I need - but I'm interested in a lightweight 73-hammer, and I don't need a clonewheel in it. The cost premium of the YC over the CP is a lot to justify for this one feature. There are very few sub-30lb non-TP100 73/76 with-DIN MIDI hammers out there...

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Manolios]

Hi,

 

as a long time user of the previous model, the CP4, I partly regret selling it in favor of the CP88. Had them side by side for a couple months autumn 2019 and got my share of impressions from fellow musicians. Almost unanimously pro CP4, which is how I still feel, as well. At least in terms of the Grand Piano sounds.

 

Please, don't get me wrong, I like imy CP88 enough to keep it, mostly for the new UI and the capability to somewhat tweak the sounds to my liking. I miss the warmth and the plethora of better sounds the CP4 offered. Not only the APs, the basses (especially the Upright bass) and Pads in the CP4 were a lot better, IMO. I also liked the EPs more, at least I don't thinks there's a huge difference - not that they're bad in the CP88, they're definitely good and I enjoy the FX, in particular DRIVE and analog Delay a lot, but still, no huge reason to sell the CP4 if you own one.

 

So I guess sound-wise there isn't really a ton of progress since 2014, you have to listen to and play it for yourself.

 

Oh, and yes, the Nashville C3 is quite nice though, one of the better APs. I mostly like the CFX, the C7 and Nashville, hate the Bösendorfer. I had to tweak the Nashville and the CFX but I like the results for some situations. Oh yeah, and the Uprights are nice, indeed.

[Al Quinn]

That's interesting Manolios. Thanks for posting. I have a CP4, which I'm happy with, and will strongly consider your feedback before making any changes.

[Doerfler]

Even if I do end up purchasing a CP 73/88,( came close even just last week, the deal went to a local buyer), I am still keeping my CP4.

[Manolios]

Even if I do end up purchasing a CP 73/88,( came close even just last week, the deal went to a local buyer), I am still keeping my CP4.

 

A wise thing to do. I wish I did. After listening again to some CP4 AP sounds, see below, I decided to look for an used one. It definitely is no comparison - again, FOR ME and my kind of music - it's a matter of taste, but I like the SCM-Sounds and the other sounds (Acoustic Bass, Pads, Strings, Synths ) a LOT more. I wish Yamaha didn't ditch the SCM-technology.

 

I guess I was a bit blinded by the modern UI and forgot to really really listen to the damn thing. I don't know if I'll be keeping both the CP88 and the CP4, we'll see, but first I gotta find an used CP4, they seem very rare where I live. I thought about texting the guy who bought my CP4 )

 

[video:youtube]

[keyboardologist]

Although I don't own a CP73/88, I think you can make this work as a duo/three split, by a little cheating, which is:

Do a split the CP, keeping the piano as the one sound. Let's say it's the lower keys, from A1or C1 to C4 and do a two octave up to have them sound like C3 to C6.

The second upper sound, from C#4 up to C8 will have an internal split sound, which you will set it's volume to zero, not to produce sound from the CP.

Then on the external sound module you do a split, with the same split point, but this time you set the lower's volume sound to zero.

You will use only midi channel 1 from both modules, but strict sounds by doing a split/mute.

 

You can also do a three split, or a layer in the center area, as long as the CP's own sound is always used as one in the lower end or in the upper end of the keyboard, and not in the middle of two.

 

Already done this with a Roland/Kurzweil setup in the past, it's a little bit overhead on the configuration but it's working.

 

Do you get the trick?

[stoken6]

I think you can make this work as a duo/three split, by a little cheating

Makes sense, although it requires a module that can respond to a particular key range.

 

It also doesn't allow me to run a controller keyboard into it and play another sound (my third requirement in my original post above).

 

Cheers, Mike.

[keyboardologist]

I think you can make this work as a duo/three split, by a little cheating

Makes sense, although it requires a module that can respond to a particular key range.

No. You can have any external module with split functionality. The external module will get all midi notes from CP's channel 1, but it will produce sound only on the one sound of it's split. The other one will be muted (volume set to zero) by the external sound module itself.

Done this with Roland XV-5080 and Kurzweil PC2R and only one midi controller on midi channel 1. I configured Roland on split and used only the lower end (the upper end had another muted sound) and then Kurzweil also set on split, same split point on both modules and on Kurzweil using only the upper end keys (lower keys split sound muted).

The overhead is that if you want to change the split key... you have to re-program this twice in both modules.

 

 

It also doesn't allow me to run a controller keyboard into it and play another sound (my third requirement in my original post above).

Yes, this is not applicable, since I think the CP can play up to 2 sounds simultaneously (either with split or layer), so using a controller for managing a third or fourth sound isn't feasible. But you can use CP as a controller with one sound and then find a good module with more sounds (like the Roland XV5080 which is capable of layering/spliting 4 sounds in the same preset) and do all the rest from the external module. I also believe motif or fantom/integra and all big 'workstation' modules can handle 4 sounds simultaneously.

 

Finally, I believe CP is not intended for such a complex use. It's mostly designed for quick access and session live with up to 2 sounds. You can add a second keyboard, but I propose not to mess with CP and a sound module, you will get bore after a while and you will end up needing another 'better' machine for handling complex sounds.

[thomsurf]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences, Manolios. I Think I"ll hang on to my old RD800 a bit longer.

[stoken6]

it requires a module that can respond to a particular key range.

No. You can have any external module with split functionality.

I'm agreeing with you, but you're disagreeing with me! Your suggestion requires the module to have split capabilities, so that it can respond to a particular key range.

 

Most of the modules I've used can't do that.

 

Cheers, Mike.