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Keyboards aren't always a bad investment


Bif_

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We all get caught up in GAS and have stories where we've made a bad purchase (didn't work as desired or described, bad choice, didn't really need, etc.). A fellow forum member posted about the high prices of workstations and I agree, they aren't cheap. I recently sold my Kurzweil PC3X (88 keys) and through the selling process discovered it's been a great investment.

 

I purchased it in 2009. List price at the time was $3500. I purchased it (by buying smart) for $2600. 11 years later, I sold it for $900. (I know I could have gotten up to $300 more for it but wanted to help a fellow player.)

 

Bottom line is that it cost me less than $13/month to own and enjoy Kurzweil's flagship keyboard (at that time) for 11 years. I've reaped so much joy playing that board at home, recorded music for my daughter's wedding, recorded other original music, played and played for hours upon hours, etc. I won't include all the money I've made teaching piano lessons using it. $13 per month. Wow, that's a cheap hobby investment and tool for continuous personal growth.

 

Yes, the key to this is buying right and buying something that holds its value. Not every shiny new thing will do that.

 

And yes, I bought a new keyboard, a Kurzweil Forte 88. And yes, I bought it right too.

Kurzweil Forte, Yamaha Motif ES7, Muse Receptor 2 Pro Max, Neo Ventilator
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I agree with this. I have had excellent luck with my Nord keyboards, I have owned 6 of them and sold 4-

 

1. Electro 3, paid $1800, sold two years later for $1400

2. Nord Wave, paid $1950, sold two years later for $1850

3. Stage 2, paid $3200 sold five years later for $2200.

4. Lead A1, paid $1700 sold two years later for $1200.

 

When you break it down in $ per month quality keyboards are indeed a bargain!

 

-dj

iMac i7 13.5.2

Studio One 5.5.2

Nord Stage 3

Nord Wave 2

Nektar T4

Drawmer DL 241

Focusrite ISA Two

Focusrite Clarett 8 Pre

 

 

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As the OP notes, buying for a good price is an important step and affects the outcome.

 

I'm not much of a keyboard player but I want to keep at least one around for my home studio. I've owned a Kurzweil K2000, K2000R and one of their earlier 88 key piano keyboards, a Novation synth (don't remember the model) and an Ensoniq from the early 90s with weighted keys. All were used and great bargains, I did well when I sold or traded them. I broke even on the Kurzweil piano at $30 - a friend needed a piano for college studies and I passed it along to her at my cost.

 

Currently I own an X-Key 25 and an Akai MPK25 and just play sounds on the computer. It's more than enough, have thought about selling both of them and getting the X-Key 37, all I should ever need and very compact.

 

I've done better still on guitars and amps since I can gig with those and earn money. They are also much more commonly found used than premium keyboards. Yes, I'd love a baby grand piano, a real one. I don't really have space and I certainly do not deserve one but I do have some good friends who play very well and being able to record them here playing a nice piano would be pretty awesome.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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This is all true, but, compared to other musical instruments, (guitars, drums, sax, etc.) keyboards still become outdated much faster and eventually need to be replaced. Whereas, a Les Paul (for example) has been and will be current for many decades

 

Yes,I know,.... any keyboard, even an 11 year old Kurz PC3X STILL does it's job as well as it did when first purchased, and as long as it's taken well care of, should continue to do so.

 

Be we, as keyboardists are usually NOT content with that...are we? We upgrade. Some of us, rather quickly and regularly! I think that is why keyboards (especially workstations) are viewed as money sucking instruments. Just look at the evolution of the Korg Kronos (original, X, Kronos2. Kronos SE, Kronos platinum) all within, what..10 years? Or the Yamaha Motif. Roland Fantoms and Nord Electros the same. And others of course. Always will be a new upgraded, more capable (sometimes significantly more) version being released. That's not the case with almost any other musical instrument.Is it?

Kurzweil Forte 7, Mojo 61, Yamaha P-125,

Kronos X61, Nautilus 73

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Resale can be a fickle b!%$#, but if you buy a product that remains desirable and the manufacturer doesn't tank the price in clearance sales, you can usually get most of your money back when selling even 5 years down the road, assuming the thing is in good condition. That seems pretty common in keyboards and instruments generally.

 

To me, this is a good reason not to buy junk in the interest of "saving money," and it's a great jedi mind trick to use on your spouse! For instance, I bought an expensive car that pissed off my wife quite a bit, but luckily it has retained its value extremely well and I make a point to slip it in conversation once in a while so she knows it's not just a rapidly depreciating midlife crisis on four wheels.

Keyboards: Nord Electro 6D 73, Korg SV-1 88, Minilogue XD, Yamaha YPG-625

Bonus: Boss RC-3 Loopstation

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This is all true, but, compared to other musical instruments, (guitars, drums, sax, etc.) keyboards still become outdated much faster and eventually need to be replaced. Whereas, a Les Paul (for example) has been and will be current for many decades

 

Yes,I know,.... any keyboard, even an 11 year old Kurz PC3X STILL does it's job as well as it did when first purchased, and as long as it's taken well care of, should continue to do so.

 

Be we, as keyboardists are usually NOT content with that...are we? We upgrade. Some of us, rather quickly and regularly! I think that is why keyboards (especially workstations) are viewed as money sucking instruments. Just look at the evolution of the Korg Kronos (original, X, Kronos2. Kronos SE, Kronos platinum) all within, what..10 years? Or the Yamaha Motif. Roland Fantoms and Nord Electros the same. And others of course. Always will be a new upgraded, more capable (sometimes significantly more) version being released. That's not the case with almost any other musical instrument.Is it?

 

 

This. I came to keyboards as a recovering guitar player, and probably the worst part of the transition was the cost of entry and the rate of obsolescence.

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This is all true, but, compared to other musical instruments, (guitars, drums, sax, etc.) keyboards still become outdated much faster and eventually need to be replaced. Whereas, a Les Paul (for example) has been and will be current for many decades

 

Yes,I know,.... any keyboard, even an 11 year old Kurz PC3X STILL does it's job as well as it did when first purchased, and as long as it's taken well care of, should continue to do so.

 

Be we, as keyboardists are usually NOT content with that...are we? We upgrade. Some of us, rather quickly and regularly! I think that is why keyboards (especially workstations) are viewed as money sucking instruments. Just look at the evolution of the Korg Kronos (original, X, Kronos2. Kronos SE, Kronos platinum) all within, what..10 years? Or the Yamaha Motif. Roland Fantoms and Nord Electros the same. And others of course. Always will be a new upgraded, more capable (sometimes significantly more) version being released. That's not the case with almost any other musical instrument.Is it?

 

Agreed. For me, the irony has always been spending thousands in search of that elusive vintage sound of a vintage instrument that wasn't supposed to bark, zap, distort, click, hum, leak, in the first place. And I can't say exactly how many boards I've paid for, that â at the time â sounded "just like a ______" only to be replaced with another one 4 years later (there was a time that planned obsolescence had more to do with a bank-loan term than advances in technology).

 

The ultimate has been the new Yamaha YC61. It has everything the doctor ordered, except of course it will never sound like a real tone-wheel. But who cares, right? Already people justify a workaround that it makes a great $3K (cdn) MIDI controller for a hundred dollar iPad app.

____________________________________
Rod

Here for the gear.

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I suppose it always depends on what tier you enter on. The pricier models tend to be attractive to the second hand market for longer.

 

So, how long until Yamaha, Roland, Kurzweil, Korg, etc. start leasing us their best stuff for two years at $20 a month?

Of course don't bring it back with any dings on it. Keep it in a smoke free environment.

And don't play it for more than 8 hours a week or they will get you on the overage. ;)

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Be we, as keyboardists are usually NOT content with that...are we? We upgrade. Some of us, rather quickly and regularly!................. Just look at the evolution of the ......... Yamaha Motif. ...........Always will be a new upgraded, more capable (sometimes significantly more) version being released.

 

Contentment......that's different for everybody. I still have (and enjoy using) my Motif ES, purchased in 2003. It has a paltry 175MB of wave ROM. I know my way around the sequencer (shudder) extremely well. I still like many of the sounds. Fantastic keybed. It would still get the job done in many band settings. I just used it to create a smooth jazz composition and used brass, synth bass, synth comp and drums on it. It sounds great and not the least bit dated.

 

I think the Kronos is a fantastic synth and would love to have one. So many nice features............that I haven't needed. I upgraded to the Forte because I thought it not a horrible idea to have a newer instrument with better sounds and better interface, and got it for a price I couldn't turn away from.

 

The YC61 intrigues me as well. I have respect for many newer boards (Montage, MODX, PC4) as well as some of the pure synths out there. But I've learned to be content and long ago figured out that the best way to improve my music was by playing, learning and fully utilizing my current gear. The Motif ES has features I've never used, some I've rarely used, that are fascinating.

 

Anybody that manufactures has to market their products to stay in business. I think that's great and it's a great time to play keys, so many choices. I've just learned to not be lured by the shiny new thing.

Kurzweil Forte, Yamaha Motif ES7, Muse Receptor 2 Pro Max, Neo Ventilator
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My NE3 gave me nine good years of service and paid for itself many times over. I managed to recoup about a third of the original retail price when selling it to upgrade. Hoping the NS3 which replaced it leads a similar life.

 

OTOH, I'm going to check out a Fender Squier Classic Vibe Tele tomorrow. Posted for $300 CDN and I might just keep it my whole life if it's ok. :idk:

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It's true that keyboardists seem to rotate their boards regularly - in, play it for a few years, out.

 

The stereotype guitarist only rotates in. "I've got a strat and LP, and an acoustic. Obviously I need a 12-string, and a ricky, and something like a jaguar, and perhaps an SG - and of course a danelectro or burns would be nice...". I expect the rate of expenditure is comparable.

 

Cheers, Mike.

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I believe for all but a select few here keyboards are not an investment. Selling for a good price after years of use, even one above the purchase price does not make it an investment. Same for selling at a low price. Also just because you use it to make money does not make it an investment.

 

I keep a spreadsheet of all my music related expenses going back 40 years. I recently determined based strictly on the purchase and selling price (plus selling fees, shipping etc.) of the equipment I no longer have I've spent on average about $120/month. This does not include what I currently own since I have no idea how much it's worth until I sell it. But it does include computers that were originally purchased for my music and re-purposed for family use or anything that I've given away/thrown out.

 

Is $120/month a little or a lot? I know of way more expensive hobbies, habits, entertainment etc. What people spend on cell phone bills and cable TV each month might make me feel less guilty. That is if I felt guilty.

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My best bang-for-buck was a Studiologic sl-990 pro that I bought used (in mint condition) in the mid-90s for 125 bucks. I finally threw it out in 2020 because I was unable to get some of the keys working. I loved that action, it used some variant of the tp-40.

 

That 125 dollars also included an m-audio Uno midi-to-usb interface, so it must have been late 90s I guess (?) as I don't think usb existed before then. I was still using this until a few years ago as well.

 

I'm still using a Crown D-75 amp and my KRK K-rok speakers that I got back then too :)

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The only three things worth buying are time, experiences, and fulfillment. Keyboards check at least the latter two of those boxes, and the right one checks the first box as well, especially as compared to less versatile option.

 

We don't buy keyboards as investments in future monetary return. If we did they'd be a terrible place to put your money, no matter how buy-low-sell-high you managed to swing it. We buy them for the value WE gain from having them. Anything they cost, is sunk cost. The rest is profit for us, of one kind or another.

 

 

 

 

 

Can you tell I'm trying to justify a new board?

Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material.
www.joshweinstein.com

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Of all the keys I've owned over the years, the only one that turned a profit that I can recall was the first organ I bought as a teenager. It was a C3 c/w 122 leslie, tone cab and pedals. I had it for maybe a year. Once we started gigging it turned out to be a massive pain to move, so I sold it for 20% more than I paid for it and downsized for a while to an M3/145 leslie. Eventually ditched the M3, (think I broke even on that) and picked up one of the early clone wheels that were available at that time. (kept the 145) Didn't sound quite a good, but sure was easier on our backs.
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Anybody that manufactures has to market their products to stay in business. I think that's great and it's a great time to play keys,

so many choices.g.

 

 

why, of course. the electronics manufacturers are organized to turn a profit with successful selling keyboard products.

 

they, lets say, korg, Roland, and Yamaha do this very well, and from their high end flagships, they have outstanding unit/niche profit.

 

thus, no or low profit , or annual losses is a ' non worry ' . For the 3 co's I mentioned.

 

my opinion, is, that we , as purchasers, end users, customers, etc , might consider being 'reasonably

knowledgeable ' of profit margin of the +$3000 flagships of these 3 co's.

 

I understand my opinion to get at this knowledge and to scrutinize it, is only of interest to a relative few.

 

each owner has hers/ his upfront purchasing rationale. that subjectivity is understandable.

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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The DX7 started the "upgrade treadmill" that so many players fell victim to. I saw that coming way back then.

 

I refused to be on the upgrade treadmill and vowed to buy equipment that I would use for minimum ten years. Despite a few misses, that rationale has served me well. I have stuff here I have owned since 1981.

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The DX7 started the "upgrade treadmill" that so many players fell victim to. I saw that coming way back then.

 

I refused to be on the upgrade treadmill and vowed to buy equipment that I would use for minimum ten years. Despite a few misses, that rationale has served me well. I have stuff here I have owned since 1981.

Interesting. The sea change that happened in the 80s with the DX7 caused me to consider something that was offered at the time: leasing. At the time we could lease musical instruments from a local music store, and the bonus was the cost of the lease counted as a 100% tax expense. Of course in the end, the idea was to hand the keyboard back to the music store, which I gladly did, because after writing off the DX, the lease was renewed for a D50 which in turn was handed in for an M1, which I ended up buying out. New tech, tax advantages and no white elephants for a good 10 or 12 years.

____________________________________
Rod

Here for the gear.

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And then there's the fact that you get so much better quality for so much less money. Pretty much any of the under $700 DPs are an incredible deal compared to even just 10 years ago.

 

I think there is sense in upgrading if the sound quality/keybed/features are a substantial improvement for your needs. This reminds me of the improvement in tv and movies around the year 2000. The realism of acting, the production values, the script writing- it all went to a whole other level. Of course as generalities go, it's plus or minus 10 years around the year 2000, and of course there have been many top shelf movies/tv made before the 2000s. But that is one of the things I look for first, when was the movie/tv made, there's a better chance I'll like it and not have to put up with so much bad acting.

 

I think that the equivalent for keyboards is around the year 2010-2015. You get so much more for your money these days.

 

That said, my obsession with upgrading from the ES110 to the ES520 is a done deal, just as soon as I can afford it!

Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus 

Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB

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Triton Studio 76-keys

 

In 2002, I bought it brand new from Musician's Friend I believe. I think I wrote about it on Korg Forums once. That keyboard helped me pay my entire student loan in less than 2 years after I graduated. I never used a power conditioner with it. That beast took a beating for years and never complained...whereas I had to change 3 brand new Kronos keyboards to get one that wouldn't throw tantrum every time I turned it on at my home studio. Years later, I sold it at GC for $500 just to have room for new gears. I didn't need the money at all. I should've kept it in the closet just because.

 

Anyway...that's been the best 'keyboard related' investment that contributed towards my music career early on.

www.youtube.com/c/InTheMixReviews
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The problem as sounds get better and your current stuff begins to bite at you sometimes. Little things become big things where you want to upgrade. It's like this with the clones that's why all the vicious debates have happened since 2001. I do think at some points you begin to split hairs in terms of what's better as the technology has gotten so much better. People don't think gear is important and as far as keyboards go it is a lot of the times.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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The DX7 started the "upgrade treadmill" that so many players fell victim to. I saw that coming way back then.

 

I refused to be on the upgrade treadmill and vowed to buy equipment that I would use for minimum ten years. Despite a few misses, that rationale has served me well. I have stuff here I have owned since 1981.

For the most part, stuff that I get never leaves. For the upgrading bit, I have mainstage to deal with; that keeps me current with newer studio sounds/allows samples, and it"s enough.

 

I made one exception: I bought the Stage 2 with the specific caveat that I would replace it the instant they came out with a model that had drawbars. So I did. after three years, when the Stage 3 came out.

 

The only other time I outright replaced a keyboard was when I sold my Prodigy to buy a Source. Love the Source, but STILL regret selling that Prodigy: it was a good one, and the one I bought later doesn"t match up.

"The Angels of Libra are in the European vanguard of the [retro soul] movement" (Bill Buckley, Soul and Jazz and Funk)

The Drawbars | off jazz organ trio

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.... keyboards are not an investment. Selling for a good price .... does not make it an investment.......just because you use it to make money does not make it an investment.

 

I getcha. Words do have meaning. Obviously my intention was regarding an 'investment' in my hobby, joy of playing and continuing to learn, playing in bands with others, etc., not to buy a keyboard to make money selling it. That would be tough for most people to do, aside from those like yourself that could buy an instrument that needs repair and fix it, then sell it for a profit.

 

Some alternate titles for the thread could be;

 

'Keyboards are always a bad investment'

 

'Keyboards aren't always a bad purchase'

 

'Keyboards aren't always a bad expenditure'

 

'I didn't lose my a$$ when I sold my keyboard'

Kurzweil Forte, Yamaha Motif ES7, Muse Receptor 2 Pro Max, Neo Ventilator
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Really, any board that you get that you own for a decade and get whatever feels like "good" use out of for that time is going to be a "good investment". Even if you'd thrown that Kurz off a cliff when you were done with it, it'd still have been less than $20/month to own over the course of your time with it. I don't know that selling it for 35% of what you paid for it has much to do with it.

 

The short-term replacement treadmill is likely going to be expensive, but if you're owning and using gear over decades, then it's usually money well spent.

 

I've got a PX-5S I bought from a forumite a few years back that I use all the time, and has cost me $16/mo and decreasing every day!

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Mostly, I agree with Markyboard. I am an outlier, I will usually only purchase something if I know I can make a profit when sold. If I can gig it and make money before selling, all the better.

That holds true for nearly all music gear, photography gear, etc. Has been an income stream for 40 years or more.

 

Sometimes, I really want something for what it is and what it will do. I will spend more for that. Pretty rare that I will buy anything new, ever. Let somebody else pay for that fun, the value goes down when the money changes hands.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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Triton Studio 76-keys

 

In 2002, I bought it brand new from Musician's Friend I believe. I think I wrote about it on Korg Forums once. That keyboard helped me pay my entire student loan in less than 2 years after I graduated. I never used a power conditioner with it. That beast took a beating for years and never complained...whereas I had to change 3 brand new Kronos keyboards to get one that wouldn't throw tantrum every time I turned it on at my home studio. Years later, I sold it at GC for $500 just to have room for new gears. I didn't need the money at all. I should've kept it in the closet just because.

 

Anyway...that's been the best 'keyboard related' investment that contributed towards my music career early on.

 

 

yes, that was some temporary bad luck with the '' 3rd time is the charm '' with your kronos.

 

my perfect hindsight 'investment ' keyboard story is my 9 year old kronos.

 

not only was it '' free '' [ I sold 3 other keyboards to fund the kronos purchase ], it has made me rich and famous in 3

European countries. [[ ;) j/k'g].

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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A keyboard can give you decent ROI if you hang on to it long enough, but usually only in terms of income, not capital growth. Under our accounting system you can also amortise its cost over time by way of depreciation. I"ve always considered it more of a 'tool of trade' rather than an 'investment vehicle'.

 

However if buying keyboards brings you pleasure, that"s an investment in lifestyle and wellbeing that is hard to quantify but certainly exists.

 

On the other hand, there are a rare few of us out there who find buying digital keyboards stressful!

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For the most part keyboards are not an investment, they are a depreciating asset or in business lingo a capital expenditure. If you"re buying vintage keyboards with the goal of appreciating value over time then yeah, they"re an investment.

 

 

Also just because you use it to make money does not make it an investment.

.

 

If that's not an investment, then what is!

 

Stocks, art, real estate (but not your primary residence), baseball cards, antiques....

Many people need a car to get to work and make money (or did). But a car is not an investment.

 

.... keyboards are not an investment. Selling for a good price .... does not make it an investment.......just because you use it to make money does not make it an investment.

 

I getcha. Words do have meaning. Obviously my intention was regarding an 'investment' in my hobby, joy of playing and continuing to learn, playing in bands with others, etc., not to buy a keyboard to make money selling it. That would be tough for most people to do, aside from those like yourself that could buy an instrument that needs repair and fix it, then sell it for a profit.

 

Some alternate titles for the thread could be;

 

'Keyboards are always a bad investment'

 

'Keyboards aren't always a bad purchase'

 

'Keyboards aren't always a bad expenditure'

 

'I didn't lose my a$$ when I sold my keyboard'

 

Sorry Bif, it wasn"t my intent to bust balls here and you obviously get the distinction. Your topic caught my attention because I often like to look at my music related expenses from different perspectives. Everyone has their own philosophy about money and hopefully they get to spend some of it as they choose. When it comes time to sell hopefully you feel you got your money"s worth, however you measure it. So I"ll go with your last alternative title. :D .

 

Btw I hate the whole process of selling. I"ve fixed and flipped a few things but sometimes quick ain"t so quick and just not worth the hassle. Hey, we all have/had certain perks from our job. Some get free or heavily discounted gear, some get company cars. I get infrequent repair bills, although this week not so good :taz:

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