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Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
Anderton #3064292 09/29/20 11:48 PM
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[doesn't realize people with 32-bit systems are 1.2% of the user base][/quote]

"I can't believe there's no USB retrofit for my Atari Mega 8!!" taz


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Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
jerrythek #3064296 09/29/20 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jerrythek
I'll offer this:

This virtual instrument doesn't sound anything like the classic instrument it is trying to emulate.

Sorry - too broad of a diss.

No, its on-point due to excessive frequency. My 2 cents: I got to play Arturia's CS80v through a pair of JBL Eons and by damn, it had the same feel as the 2x I got to play real CS80s. Can you say 'lush & thunderous?' I don't believe that a lot of complainers HAVE played the real thing(s) much or they'd STFU. I'm just glad players of software EPs don't seem to get in a snit over the range of options. That's what B-3 players are for. duck Heh heh....


"I’m thinking of writing a cookbook.
I’ve got the title.
'Dark Side of the Spoon!'"
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Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
David Eek #3064410 09/30/20 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by David Emm
Originally Posted by jerrythek
I'll offer this:

This virtual instrument doesn't sound anything like the classic instrument it is trying to emulate.

Sorry - too broad of a diss.

No, its on-point due to excessive frequency.

...especially when it comes to amp sims, because even the physical amps often sound different from each other - different production runs, parts substitutions, etc. Companies like Line 6 usually get a bunch of something like an AC30, and choose their favorite.

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Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
Stephen Fortner #3064411 09/30/20 10:51 PM
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Thanks Kuru,

So that leads me to think, does the wood and other non magnetic factors of the build of the guitar affect the tone, the sustain, or both?

And if I had identical strats, with everything adjusted the same except one made out basswood and one made out of swamp ash, would the average listener be able to hear a difference?

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand.

Notes

Last edited by Notes_Norton; 09/30/20 11:02 PM.

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Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
Notes_Norton #3064413 09/30/20 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Notes_Norton
Thanks Kuru,

So that leads me to think, does the wood and other non magnetic factors of the build of the guitar affect the tone, the sustain, or both?

Sure - density of the wood, amount of wood, tailpiece, bridge, nut, even the tuning pegs.

Quote
And if I had identical strats, with everything adjusted the same except one made out basswood and one made out of swamp ash, would the average listener be able to hear a difference?

Are they really identical? You could have two made out of the same wood and they'll sound different because it's a different piece of wood.

What's an average listener? Some might be able to hear a difference. An average listener wouldn't care.

Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
Mike Rivers #3064423 10/01/20 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rivers
Originally Posted by Notes_Norton
Thanks Kuru,

So that leads me to think, does the wood and other non magnetic factors of the build of the guitar affect the tone, the sustain, or both?

Sure - density of the wood, amount of wood, tailpiece, bridge, nut, even the tuning pegs.

Quote
And if I had identical strats, with everything adjusted the same except one made out basswood and one made out of swamp ash, would the average listener be able to hear a difference?

Are they really identical? You could have two made out of the same wood and they'll sound different because it's a different piece of wood.

What's an average listener? Some might be able to hear a difference. An average listener wouldn't care.

Yeah, the vibration of the strings is definitely what is translated into the tiny electric current via the pickups - but - the string vibrations are not just caused by the pick or finger action. The wood vibrations (which vary tremendously between hollow/semi-hollow/ and solid body guitars) are fed back into the strings via the nut and the bridge. The pickups themselves are vibrating a tiny amount from being attached to the wood body.

It's all one big system, and even what seem like tiny factors of construction can translate into very audible tone differences once amplified. That's why guitarists are so fussy with their instruments!

nat

Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
Notes_Norton #3064425 10/01/20 12:52 AM
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Hi Notes:

Part of me is saying, "why are you going further down this rabbit hole?". But let me proceed, because it's interesting to talk about. And I can see by your website that you know what you're talking about. But I think we're slicing this too fine, so we're arguing semantics.

On one level (again) you are correct - the only standard in GM is what type of sound is called up, for consistency. A piano track in one file should be a piano track in another, and so on. And no more. But the devil is in the details. Look here at the overview of the spec:

GM Soundset

Specifically this section:

"Each manufacturer must insure that their sounds provide an acceptable representation of song data written for General MIDI. Guidelines for developing GM compatible sound sets and song data are available."

What is "acceptable"? There's the rub. Over time the market pushed manufacturers to sound more alike than different. So often their hands were tied to sound close enough to each other... Sure some varied, but it became a bit of a yolk around their necks. GS/GM 2 and XG all were developed to provide more and more sound variety, while staying within the general confines of the specification. So it doesn't matter what the spec defined and didn't define, the marketplace implementation and user reaction did.

Now, I completely agree that by definition, being in the GM Bank doesn't mean a sound is good or bad. It either works for what you're doing or it doesn't. And often in a mix a simpler sound will serve the part better than something that too XX (whatever the characteristic is). So often I had artists tell me how great a sound was for the tune they were working on, which when solo-ed seemed rather simple, or plain. But that's not important. It did what it needed to do.

Moving on to the MT-32 - yes it was not GM, but it absolutely became the standard to which all GM soundsets were based on, and/or compared to. Because it was very popular for computer music/desktop music etc. and had so many song files written for it back in the day that needed to play back right on the newer devices that supported GM. The Roland Sound Canvas was the first to actually "be" GM-compatible, but it was not that different-sounding than the MT-32. So I could have used that model as well.That is the history. I know.... I was there.

keys

Jerry



Originally Posted by Notes_Norton
Originally Posted by jerrythek
Originally Posted by Notes_Norton
General MIDI sounds suck.

General MIDI has no sound, just suggested patch numbers for a set of common patch names.

Literally this is true, but I think we all know what they are referring to. The Roland MT-32 pretty much defined the sounds for each of the 128 choices, and so for a company to create a GM soundset that customers thought "sounded good" playing back MIDI files, the new company had to pretty closely match the MT-32. So we ended up with a sea of products with a GM mode that were all trying to sound as close to the MT-32 without being sued...

Perhaps another reason for this perception was the fact that for GM you could only have Chorus and Reverb, so when compared to "regular" sounds that could have insert effects and more diversity in general, the GM sounds were plainer.

Oops, see, I just did it. Because what else are you going to call those 128 sounds? The sounds found in the GM sound bank?

idk

Jerry
That's what I mean. (The MT32 is not GM BTW)

General MIDI simply designates the names of 128 patches. It doesn't even say what the voice is supposed to sound like. Atmosphere (100) on one synth can sound completely different on another. It's up to the synth manufacturer to determine what atmosphere sounds like.

I have GM patches that take plenty of continuous controllers, chorus, reverb, LFO, Sustain, Pan, Breath controller, Portamento, Brightness, Volume, Expression, Mod wheel, and so on. And I have others that are more limited. It depends on the synth maker, not the GM specifications.

I have a GM synth that by manipulating the MSB and LSB I can get 12 different 'clean guitar. sounds like Tele (front or back pup), Strat, 335, LP, and more, all with GM patch 28.

Both my Edirol SD90 and my Ketron SD2 have some fantastic General MIDI sounds (and some lesser ones as well).

MIDI has no sound. MIDI is the electronic fingers that play a synthesizer, and the synthesizer has sound. A good synth patch is good whether it is a GM patch number or not, and a bad patch sounds bad whether it is a GM patch number or not. Besides for that good or bad is actually in the ear of the listener. A lot of people like that DX7 extra bright Rhodes sound.

I still occasionally use a few TX81z and MT32 sounds because for the song I'm working on they sound perfect. Neither one is GM. I still use SC55 sounds that are GM. Plus I use other synths as well.

General MIDI sounds don't suck, because General MIDI has no sound - none - zero - zilch - nada. MIDI synthesizers have sounds, some good, some bad and it doesn't matter if the patch number coincides with the GM set or not.

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Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
David Eek #3064426 10/01/20 12:59 AM
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Hi David:

Oops, I think I wasn't clear, or you just misinterpreted me. My "sorry" line was not saying I'm sorry for my post/suggestion, I meant that the diss was too broad, so I reject it. Meaning it fit within this discussion.

Or am I misinterpreting you?

wink

Jerry

Originally Posted by David Emm
Originally Posted by jerrythek
I'll offer this:

This virtual instrument doesn't sound anything like the classic instrument it is trying to emulate.

Sorry - too broad of a diss.

No, its on-point due to excessive frequency. My 2 cents: I got to play Arturia's CS80v through a pair of JBL Eons and by damn, it had the same feel as the 2x I got to play real CS80s. Can you say 'lush & thunderous?' I don't believe that a lot of complainers HAVE played the real thing(s) much or they'd STFU. I'm just glad players of software EPs don't seem to get in a snit over the range of options. That's what B-3 players are for. duck Heh heh....

Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
jerrythek #3064428 10/01/20 01:15 AM
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jerrythek

Hi David:
Oops, I think I wasn't clear, or you just misinterpreted me. My "sorry" line was not saying I'm sorry for my post/suggestion, I meant that the diss was too broad, so I reject it. Meaning it fit within this discussion.
Or am I misinterpreting you? wink

No, I gotcha and we agree. Its just an outgrowth of trying to create a Zoom meeting via text alone! Many a diss IS too broad. In fact, its a spectator sport these days. I stand by my Poly-800 II and CS-80 tales of synth luv as great teaching moments. I revere the old gear, but Dave Stewart's "Mind Your Backs Tango" became the underlying theme that sent me over to a desktop. HA!


"I’m thinking of writing a cookbook.
I’ve got the title.
'Dark Side of the Spoon!'"
~ Nick Mason, drummer for Pink Floyd

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Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
Notes_Norton #3064435 10/01/20 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Notes_Norton
Thanks Kuru,

So that leads me to think, does the wood and other non magnetic factors of the build of the guitar affect the tone, the sustain, or both?

And if I had identical strats, with everything adjusted the same except one made out basswood and one made out of swamp ash, would the average listener be able to hear a difference?

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand.

Notes

To answer your first question briefly - both.
The second question - maybe. Too many variables, starting with the "average listener". The amp used, the volume, the room all could be factors as well.

Both can be affected. Let's start with wood. You've heard a marimba, typically the maker will try to use wood from a single tree and as close in proximity as possible. Yet every note is different, why? They are all different lengths so they resonate at different frequencies. If you could go to a shop that made guitar bodies, hang them up and knock them with your knuckles, you would hear that some of these bodies "ring", some "thump" and some "thud" depending on the type of wood used and the actual piece of wood itself. Now, if you have two very similar woods that "ring", the note you'll hear from a P-Bass body, a Strat body and a Tele body will be different. Why? They are all different lengths. A body that rings on a G note will absorb more energy from strings that are played at a G note then they will at a Bb. That affects both tone and sustain, a frequency has been attenuated.

Now, you have a Les Paul with a lightweight mahogany neck and the tuners are also the lighter "vintage" style. You replace them with a nice hefty set of Schaller tuners. The increased mass of the headstock reduces the resonance and increases sustain. The tone changes with the increased sustain, the strings are not robbed of energy by the headstock.

I could say more or less the same thing about every single part of the guitar. Even the pickups, some of the vintage Gretsch pickups were very "microphonic", a frequency from the speaker would cause a part of the winding or magnet structure to resonate and "squeal." Some players seek microphonic pickups, I've seen it said that they "sound better', whatever that means. If you "pot" that same pickup using wax or crazy glue or whatever, the sound of that pickup will change.

The variations are endless. Long ago and far away I spent a considerable time one day trying out a dozen brand new Gibson Les Pauls. I didn't really care for any of them but some of them sounded like a wet log and others had more sustain and clarity. I didn't analyze them to figure out why but they were quite different. There could be many reasons for it.

I had a 1965 Martin D-18 in good condition. It played well. It sounded pretty OK but not what such guitars are reputed to be like. I sold it to my brother because he wanted it. Decades later he sent it to me and I sold it to somebody else, he didn't like it much and never played it. I've played other Martins from that era that sounded amazing, many times. Outwardly it didn't look any different. It had a fair amount of wear and tear so somebody played it enough for it to be broken in (yes, wooden acoustic guitars typically sound better after they've been played for about a year or so).

And it doesn't stop there. Think all electronics are identical? Guess again!!!! Unless the specifications of the parts are within very tight tolerances (odds are they mostly aren't), then one keyboard could sound better than another identical one. They may sound so close it cannot be noticed or they may both sound good so nobody cares.

The output transformer of a tube guitar amp also goes through a break in period. Coils with current flowing through them wrapped around ferrous metal laminations creates what? Magnetism!!!! It may be a cumulative effect but it happens.

So yeah, consistency is an illusion. Choose what sounds good to you and go with it, that's the bottom line.


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
KuruPrionz #3064464 10/01/20 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
<...snip...>

So yeah, consistency is an illusion. Choose what sounds good to you and go with it, that's the bottom line.

In the end, that's all that really counts.

I have a Parker custom shop DF522NN (NN for Notes Norton). Duncan P-Rail pickups that give me very good P90 sounds, decent rail sounds and good series humbucker and parallel humbucker sounds. Alder body, maple neck, ebony fingerboard, hardened stainless steel frets, sperzel tuners, and a piezo under the bridge that I can mix with the mag pickups.

But I stress my first instrument is saxophone. Guitar is my 7th so I don't have nearly as many years of experience on it. After saying that I understand lifelong guitarists can hear what I can't yet.


[Linked Image from nortonmusic.com]

Notes


Bob "Notes" Norton
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Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
Stephen Fortner #3064465 10/01/20 03:35 PM
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Another one that needs to die,...

Saxophones sound better with original lacquer.

Notes


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Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
Stephen Fortner #3064469 10/01/20 03:52 PM
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Nice guitar Notes!
I wouldn't worry about the tedious little details with a guitar like that, just play it and enjoy.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - For every solution, there is a problem.
One of the joys of electric guitar is that there is no correct way to play it. It follows then that there is no incorrect way to play it either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwgOUzodS6E

My brother has a Parker, I like it.


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Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
KuruPrionz #3064499 10/01/20 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
The variations are endless. Long ago and far away I spent a considerable time one day trying out a dozen brand new Gibson Les Pauls. I didn't really care for any of them but some of them sounded like a wet log and others had more sustain and clarity. I didn't analyze them to figure out why but they were quite different. There could be many reasons for it.

One reason is where the wood was grown. Wood close to a river absorbs more moisture and becomes a heavier, denser wood, Wood grown on a hill is less dense. This difference is significant enough that at least with the "old" Gibson, the wood that was grown closer to a river was considered more desirable, and used in the really high-end guitars.

And there are also variations within the guitar itself. I've often written about how changing pickup height in relation to the strings alters sustain. Also, I remember touring the PRS factor with Paul. He would go past blocks of wood and "ping" each one to check out the resonant qualities. I find PRS electric guitars to be very "alive," even when not plugged in.

Any one difference is probably not that great, but when you add them all together, they give different guitars different personalities. I often find myself reaching for specific guitars to fill particular roles in specific songs. Playing the same part on a different guitar just doesn't produce the same result.

Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
KuruPrionz #3064564 10/02/20 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Nice guitar Notes!
I wouldn't worry about the tedious little details with a guitar like that, just play it and enjoy.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - For every solution, there is a problem.
One of the joys of electric guitar is that there is no correct way to play it. It follows then that there is no incorrect way to play it either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwgOUzodS6E

My brother has a Parker, I like it.
Thanks. I love the guitar. It stays in tune very well, it's well balanced, and it's comfortable. I get around fairly well on it, I consider myself good at what I do on the guitar but what I do on the guitar is limited. I can double on it but wouldn't take a gig as a lead guitarist. I did play bass for a few years when saxes fell off the pop charts, so I wasn't afraid of the fretboard when I got my first guitar.

It's an advantage of having a musician wife (guitar, synth and vocals). When I needed a new guitar, she said "Why don't you have them build one for you?"

I liked her Parker a lot so I had the factory make one for me. The only customizing I did was the pickups. This model comes stock like a 'fat strat' (S-S-H). I love P90s but there are a couple of places where I gig that have these funky stage lights and I need to put them in the humbucker mode all night.

We are a duo now, but we played in 4 and 5 piece bands before that. Now we're self contained, dependent on no other musicians, and until COVID never lacked for a gig after our first year out.

It's all good.

Notes


Bob "Notes" Norton
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Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
Stephen Fortner #3064747 10/03/20 06:46 PM
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Just to mix things up...here's a gear diss that I think should NOT die: No user-replaceable rechargeable battery. C'mon, I don't want to a) throw something away when the battery can't hold a charge, or b) send it back to the company, and wait for the to and from transit time.

Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
Anderton #3064759 10/03/20 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
Just to mix things up...here's a gear diss that I think should NOT die: No user-replaceable rechargeable battery. C'mon, I don't want to a) throw something away when the battery can't hold a charge, or b) send it back to the company, and wait for the to and from transit time.

Like the Fishman Triple Play? Or even their backplate battery for the Strat Fluence pickups.

I agree, annoying.


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
Stephen Fortner #3064788 10/03/20 10:05 PM
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I sold a reverb for that once. Battery died, factory wanted it back, I sent it back for replacement, bought a competing product, and when it came back with a new battery I sold it.

The manufacturers need to know that a pro musician cannot have weeks of down time on a piece of gear that needs to go to the factory for routine maintenance.

Notes


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Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
Notes_Norton #3064790 10/03/20 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Notes_Norton
The manufacturers need to know that a pro musician cannot have weeks of down time on a piece of gear that needs to go to the factory for routine maintenance.

I believe manufacturer’s don’t think pros bet their livelihood on a $400 piece of gear. They have backups.

Did you overnight it to them for repair?

Last edited by dboomer; 10/03/20 10:15 PM.
Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
Stephen Fortner #3064815 10/04/20 01:36 AM
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No, I bought a competing brand. Fixing it took too long, it sat in the factory over a week to change a battery PLUS shipping time.

And yes, I have backups.

When my backup gear needs to be called into action, I can get all my first line gear repaired in a day or two. It costs extra money to get priority, but it's worth it.

If I'm sending it to the factory for something that is bound to fail like a battery, it'll take too long because I'm running without a backup until my gear gets fixed.

I am a "the show must go on" person, and I look for reliability and ease of repair for the gear I buy, (plus a backup).

Insights and incites by Notes


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Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
dboomer #3064825 10/04/20 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted by dboomer
I believe manufacturer’s don’t think pros bet their livelihood on a $400 piece of gear.

By "not user-replaceable," I don't mean "You can take the top off, unsolder the backup battery, and solder in a new one or at least a battery holder with a couple AA batteries or a 2032 until the proper replacement shows up from Batteries+." I mean like you can't take the thing apart, unless you have special tools or a portable electronics workbench. It's impractical to have backups of every piece of gear with batteries that can't be replaced. Besides, if you bought the backup around the same time, the battery in the backup might not hold a charge either - unless you were meticulous about recharging it periodically, remembering to let it go to half-charge before extended periods of non-use, and then recharging it on occasion whether you needed it or not. It's also important that battery quality is variable, some might go on for years and some might not be able to hold a charge after three months. It doesn't do much good to have a backup if it has the same issue as what it's backing up.

But I was thinking mostly of consumer equipment. No, I'm not going to buy a $1000 backup iPhone because the battery might go haywire when I'm not near an Apple store, or away from home on a tight schedule. I bought a backup Android for a couple hundred bucks with a replaceable battery. Swap sim cards...done. And then there's this B.S. Seriously?

I do consider something like this at least marginally replaceable. I'm sure anyone would rather find someone like me who knows how to solder and massage cases apart than get charged $150 for a factory battery replacement.

Remember where all this started (from Wikipedia): "iPod batteries are not designed to be removed or replaced by the user...compounding the problem, Apple initially would not replace worn-out batteries. The official policy was that the customer should buy a refurbished replacement iPod, at a cost almost equivalent to a brand new one."

Since then, it's been okay to use batteries to hold customers hostage to high factory replacement fees, or sometimes sketchy third-party solutions. Not a fan...this is why in my reviews, if a battery is not-user-replaceable, it gets dinged. I don't care if the case has to be 1/32nd of a inch bigger.

Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
Stephen Fortner #3064829 10/04/20 03:25 AM
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Not trying to be Mr. Unpopular here. I just wanna share a perspective from a manufacturer's standpoint. MI manufacturer’s (at least internally) consider themselves in the consumer product market. At least the bean counters do.

Obviously a manufacturer could do anything they want but everything has a cost. Cost affects sales and sales affects keeping retail prices down. Most products get a price fixed to them when they are designed. Replaceable batteries have a cost which means if they add that as a feature then something else will get left out. So decisions get made.

Pretty much everything I’ve seen runs over its cost estimates in its initial stages and things have to get cut back. Could be features, could be quality, could be making things serviceable. In older times a lot of gear was designed to do whatever the original design was damn the cost. That's not the case any more. Consumer products are designed form the ground up to meet magic price points ... $299, $399, $499, etc. While you guys certainly have the right to make decisions based on whatever you want I’m guessing in the bigger picture very few sales are lost because on non replaceable batteries assuming the original battery lasts a few years or longer. Apple products that sell in the millions are probably a good example of that. Even in house factory service bills $100/hr against a product in for warranty repair. So for about anything that sells for south of $500 it is cheaper for the factory to replace than to fix. Behringer fixes nothing these days. Warranty claims are replaced and everything else is non serviceable.

Once upon a time I climbed into a dumpster with about 400 rack mount Crest power amps that were on their way to be crushed. I could have easily taken parts from some and fixed others but that ain’t the way it’s done wink

Last edited by dboomer; 10/04/20 03:35 AM.
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Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
Anderton #3064830 10/04/20 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
[And then there's this B.S. Seriously?

I can’t swear to it, but I’ll bet the non replaceable battery outlast the original purchaser’s use of the phone 99.9% of the time.

OTOH ... I have a Juno 106 from 1985 with a solder-in panasonic 3v battery that currently measures 3.28v. I'm pretty sure most Juno 106s have gone to the grave wink

Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
dboomer #3064835 10/04/20 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by dboomer
Obviously a manufacturer could do anything they want but everything has a cost. Cost affects sales and sales affects keeping retail prices down. Most products get a price fixed to them when they are designed. Replaceable batteries have a cost which means if they add that as a feature then something else will get left out. So decisions get made.

Or, certain standards are upheld and the price is adjusted accordingly. With one exception I can currently think of (Fishman Triple Play), I haven't bought any new musical equipment with a non-user replaceable battery - ever.
There was no other option like the Triple Play and I really wanted it. So far so good, you are right about newer battery systems having fairly long lives if properly charged.

Behringer doesn't have to fix anything, I bought one small mixer from them a long time ago and that ended that. They have plenty of customers, I am not one of them.

Now phones are different subject. Until a friend gave me his extra phone to use for free, I was fine with the Tracfone Android for $30. I am probably an exception to the standard use case, I spent maybe $100 a year for phone service.

So I am an outlier but I find a way to avoid non-replaceable batteries for the most part.
I get what you are saying, I don't have any negative feelings about you stating a reality that exists. Budget, Deliverable, Obstacles - same old story just different players and different potentials as tech evolves.

Some will make stuff I will buy, some won't.


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Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
KuruPrionz #3064838 10/04/20 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
So I am an outlier.


Yeah, I guess I’m not addressing the center of the bell curve with this group wink

Last edited by dboomer; 10/04/20 04:18 AM.
Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
dboomer #3064843 10/04/20 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by dboomer
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
So I am an outlier.


Yeah, I guess I’m not addressing the center of the bell curve with this group wink

Hard to say. Depends on which bell curve you've chosen to address. Spenders? Buyers? or Musicians?
There are lots of musicians here, maybe actual musicians are not the primary consumers of music equipment?
Certainly at the low end this is true, the number of cheap used guitars, amps and keyboards one sees everywhere is an indication of abandonment without accomplishment.
Craigslist, pawn shops and Goodwill locally have a pretty consistent flow of fairly inexpensive gear, and this is a small city of 90,000.

To be fair, I have to say that pretty much all of it is more useful and better quality than what was available when I started, cheaper too.
My Tascam DR-40 is a fantastic tool, I would have been in heaven to have it 30 years ago. 3 removable AA batteries BTW...


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Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
dboomer #3064880 10/04/20 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dboomer
Not trying to be Mr. Unpopular here. I just wanna share a perspective from a manufacturer's standpoint. MI manufacturer’s (at least internally) consider themselves in the consumer product market. At least the bean counters do.

Obviously a manufacturer could do anything they want but everything has a cost. Cost affects sales and sales affects keeping retail prices down. Most products get a price fixed to them when they are designed. Replaceable batteries have a cost which means if they add that as a feature then something else will get left out. So decisions get made.

Everything you say is true. But also consider what happens to those batteries. User-replaceable ones can get recycled, I wonder how many of the ones embedded in throw-away products are disposed of properly.

If Company A decides it can save a few bucks by cutting particular corners, that pretty much forces companies B and C to follow suit. I get that. The onus is not so much on companies because they give the customer what they want, but on customers who care only about the lowest price (and then complain when their plastic case breaks).

As to phone batteries outlasting phones, that may be true for most people, who can't resist marketing that's designed to make them feel inadequate if they don't have the latest and greatest.. So yeah, I'm an outlier...my iPhone 7's battery went nuts, and after getting a new battery, I'm still using the iPhone 7 and it can run iOS 14. It's an effing phone, for chrissakes. I don't care if it takes 38 milliseconds longer to load a web page than an iPhone 11.

Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
Anderton #3064882 10/04/20 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
Everything you say is true.

I’m writing that down! wink

Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
Stephen Fortner #3064899 10/04/20 08:30 PM
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Here's another diss: Someone wants to get into recording, tries out a DAW, and says "it isn't user-friendly."

Of course it isn't! It's duplicating the function of a half-million dollar studio of a couple decades ago...good luck figuring that out if you'd never done recording before.

Re: Gear Disses that Need To Die
Anderton #3064904 10/04/20 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
Here's another diss: Someone wants to get into recording, tries out a DAW, and says "it isn't user-friendly."

Of course it isn't! It's duplicating the function of a half-million dollar studio of a couple decades ago...good luck figuring that out if you'd never done recording before.

That one could very well be an excuse. It can be a bit disheartening to hear how one actually sounds, especially if friends have been generous with compliments.
Basic tracking isn't really that difficult. It's the finer points that start demanding brain cells. I'm not as quick to learn as I was decades ago but persistence furthers.
Studying the tempo mapping features in Waveform now, I can't flatline the tempo on music anymore and be happy with it and I can't afford the drummer I'd like to hire.

I guess if it was easy everybody would be really good at it?


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