Older keys New Rig

[stoken6]

Did you decide not to go for the Electro that you mentioned only two days ago?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[EscapeRocks]

 

 

Found out that the MODX6 has audio in and USB in via camera connection kit.

 

 

Yes, and also with the latest firmware updates, it can also be a host to other keys.... for example if you have aboard with only USB out, you can connect it to the MODX to control the MODX.

 

I do this now and then when I setup at home to practice using my PX-S3000 that is only USB

[AnotherScott]

Quick first thoughts:

Got my Nord Stage 3. Great instrument: without manual I could easily add samples, organize programs. Much deeper than I expected.

I'm not a piano player, therefor i like the waterfall keys. Otherwise they might be a little small.

The bright eq switch is great in the mix!

Nice hands-on live instrument

Nice move going for that over the Electro. As long as you can handle the $, it's a much better board overall. So what will you pair it with, the MODX or one of the PC4s?

[uhoh7]

I was not aware the PX-5S was so light. It seems to take alot of flak for "slow action", exactly on the lines of the PC4.

 

Some people seem to think they can't repeat notes fast enough on these two?

 

They apparently made very many, so this could be the future steal for hammer 88 controlers, used around 700 now.

 

Is it a casio action? Or maybe they used medeli

 

For a rig like this, I note the Studiologic SL73, with TP100 action (25 lbs) is now down to 500, new. If I didn't have my old SL880, that's what I would likely grab as weighted controller today.

 

I see the Numa nano is 22 lbs! Also TP100, but 88. Nice flat surface on much of it. Alu case. I never heard of that one either. I need to stop practicing and catch up on old products! The nano did not cross the pond much, it appears. Very few used here for sale. I did find a bunch of positive french reviews.

[erik_nie]

So what will you pair it with, the MODX or one of the PC4s?

 

Not sure, the Stage 3 can handle almost all my needs. Perhaps I give it a try to use only one board.

Will do a check with the setlist if that is possible.

Save setup time.

[stoken6]

So what will you pair it with, the MODX or one of the PC4s?

Not sure, the Stage 3 can handle almost all my needs. Perhaps I give it a try to use only one board.

I admire anyone who can make a one-board rig work. Even on a basic blues/rock gig I typically want piano and organ (or EP+organ, or clav+organ), and I find a split gets in the way. Two boards means I have full compass for both instruments, and I can't possibly forget where the split point is. (For simplicity, I use one sound-generating board, and a second purely as a controller)

 

Please report back, Erik - these kinds of "community experiences" provide insights that reviews and interviews typically don't mention.

 

Cheers, Mike

[AnotherScott]

So what will you pair it with, the MODX or one of the PC4s?

 

Not sure, the Stage 3 can handle almost all my needs. Perhaps I give it a try to use only one board.

Here are the areas you mentioned where that has the potential to fall short, in terms of internal capabilities...

 

... splits - internally, while it meets your "more complex splits for certain songs: 3 zones, 2 sounds per zone," of the total of up to 6 sounds you reference there, four would have to be organ or piano library sounds, only two could be synth or (non-piano) sample based.

 

... custom sample capacity - you were aiming for 1GB on bottom and 500 GB on top for custom sample sample loading, this gives you 480 total, and less than that if you want to use any of Nord's non-piano library sample-based sounds, as that is where those samples reside as well.

 

... multi-velocity custom sample support - you mentioned having your own pianos you wanted to load in, so you'd need to abandon that, not just for the space constraint but also because the user sample space doesn't support velocity layers. So you'll have to stick with Nord's pianos, though of course, you have some very nice options there.

 

... possibly the strings/brass quality, since Nords are not known for that, probably largely because not only can't you load custom sample of multiple velocity, but Nord's own samples (outside the piano library) also lack velocity layers. These sounds on a board like a Yamaha or Kurz tend to be better.

 

Of course, if you continue to integrate Mainstage, all those limitations disappear, but to the extent you were aiming for something you could use standalone, those are areas where the NS3 falls short of your ideals, which adding another board like the MODX or PC4 would address.

 

The other issue is whether you are okay with the other limitations of a single board (backup if there's a problem, greater ability to grab sounds on-the-fly mid-song without having to set things up in advance, more keys available for your sounds to minimizr worrying about accidentally crossing split points). If you're trying to watch the expense since you went high budget on your main board, you could consider an in-between compromise... a Roland Juno DS61 addresses all the above limitations except that its space for custom samples is small (though possibly made up for in part by the fact that many of your samples are backing tracks, and the Roland lets you use its keypad to trigger backing track files from a USB stick, so you can load up all those without using up the sample memory of either of your boards).

[erik_nie]

So what will you pair it with, the MODX or one of the PC4s?

 

Not sure, the Stage 3 can handle almost all my needs. Perhaps I give it a try to use only one board.

Here are the areas you mentioned where that has the potential to fall short, in terms of internal capabilities...

 

... splits - internally, while it meets your "more complex splits for certain songs: 3 zones, 2 sounds per zone," of the total of up to 6 sounds you reference there, four would have to be organ or piano library sounds, only two could be synth or (non-piano) sample based.

 

Yes, that was my main reason to get the MODX6, where all of this is possible. I'm not afraid to dive in, but learning a new synth with all options and how to get all my sample stuff in, will take some time.

I was just playing with the options and tried to do all the more complex setups and could do most of them in a few minutes. There is one with too much splits and I will solve that with making a custom sample-set with different sounds per range, so consuming only one synth sound. Otherwise I managed to get all of them (around 15) in a way that works.

 

... custom sample capacity - you were aiming for 1GB on bottom and 500 GB on top for custom sample sample loading, this gives you 480 total, and less than that if you want to use any of Nord's non-piano library sample-based sounds, as that is where those samples reside as well.

 

My sample-sets are not always needed as i found several nice Nord sample sets. Most of my samples are single velocity c-fis-c-fis sample sets. Around 10MB per set. Backing tracks would take much more, but i solved that with my iPad.

Piano-samples from Nord are great and more than good enough for live, playing on a PA together with the rest of the band. They seems to cut through. My multi-layer piano sets are not usable in the Nord, but I found equal and sometimes better replacement.

 

... multi-velocity custom sample support - you mentioned having your own pianos you wanted to load in, so you'd need to abandon that, not just for the space constraint but also because the user sample space doesn't support velocity layers. So you'll have to stick with Nord's pianos, though of course, you have some very nice options there.

 

stick with Nord's pianos...

 

... possibly the strings/brass quality, since Nords are not known for that, probably largely because not only can't you load custom sample of multiple velocity, but Nord's own samples (outside the piano library) also lack velocity layers. These sounds on a board like a Yamaha or Kurz tend to be better.

 

Perhaps, but found some pretty decent brass sounds. I loaded my own samples in there. In a band's context there is no space for nuance... Single layer will do with some velocity based filtering.

The sample manager is great. I used to work with Extreme Sample Converter and Some Kurzweil tools or Soundfont editors. Always struggling to get everything setup correctly. The Sample Manager work very simple. Drag in a set of sample with note names in the filename and upload to the Stage. Add some verb/echo/eq/filter en envelope and done.

 

Of course, if you continue to integrate Mainstage, all those limitations disappear, but to the extent you were aiming for something you could use standalone, those are areas where the NS3 falls short of your ideals, which adding another board like the MODX or PC4 would address.

 

I expect that a second board works better.... Time will tell. Because of the non-playing time due to Covid I have some time to explore the stage during rehearsals.

 

The other issue is whether you are okay with the other limitations of a single board (backup if there's a problem, greater ability to grab sounds on-the-fly mid-song without having to set things up in advance, more keys available for your sounds to minimizr worrying about accidentally crossing split points). If you're trying to watch the expense since you went high budget on your main board, you could consider an in-between compromise... a Roland Juno DS61 addresses all the above limitations except that its space for custom samples is small (though possibly made up for in part by the fact that many of your samples are backing tracks, and the Roland lets you use its keypad to trigger backing track files from a USB stick, so you can load up all those without using up the sample memory of either of your boards).

 

I'll keep my eye out for options. modx6 is small, cheap and extremely versatile. Only missing Hammond.

 

One things that is not working, or I did not found a good solutions for is this: I now have a sustain pedal and control pedal for the Stage (mainly volume for the top-split of strings below piano).

For the top board I need also volume, so a second control pedal.

Extra setup.

I used to have only sustain on my bottom board (piano stuff) and control on my top (hammond, brass, string, lead, splits) where I could put that sound in the mix (sometimes soloing, giving it accents, etc)

[AnotherScott]

Yes, that was my main reason to get the MODX6, where all of this is possible. I'm not afraid to dive in, but learning a new synth with all options and how to get all my sample stuff in, will take some time.

I was just playing with the options and tried to do all the more complex setups and could do most of them in a few minutes...I used to work with Extreme Sample Converter and Some Kurzweil tools or Soundfont editors. Always struggling to get everything setup correctly. The Sample Manager work very simple. Drag in a set of sample with note names in the filename and upload to the Stage. Add some verb/echo/eq/filter en envelope and done.

Yes, that is one of the best things about the Nord that I think sometimes gets overlooked. It's not just about having all those direct controls for use in performance, but also that they make setting up sounds in advance so much faster and easier than on so many other boards, and that ease even extends to the loading of custom samples.

 

There is one {setup} with too much splits and I will solve that with making a custom sample-set with different sounds per range, so consuming only one synth sound...Most of my samples are single velocity c-fis-c-fis sample sets. Around 10MB per set. Backing tracks would take much more, but i solved that with my iPad.

Since you have an iPad, besides using it for backing tracks, you can also use it for more samples (using an app like BS-16i for example), and/or other synth or orchestral sounds (to get around the limit of 2 such sounds in a Nord program), you can easily integrate two additional sounds from the iPad into the Nord via its EXT function. The only gotcha hear is that the iPad only has a single stereo out. So to work most easily, I'd be inclined to use the iPad for just one stereo sound source or two mono sources (i.e. panned left and right out of the iPad) at any given time. If you're using it for two different sounds that you want to easily control, you could use a device like the DSan LSP-2 to give you easy access to independent volume of two mono sounds out of the iPad (i.e. a mono backing track and an extra synth sound, or two extra mono synth sounds). Or of course you could just send everything into a mixer.

 

I'll keep my eye out for options. modx6 is small, cheap and extremely versatile. Only missing Hammond.

and the Hammond is not needed if you have the Nord in the rig anyway. And it's not like the MODX has no usable organ sounds in it. As "backup" for the Nord, I think its organs would be fine. Looking at an alternate to the MODX just for better organ (or to use another iOS device) is really probably unnecessary. As for the Juno DS I mentioned, if you're looking for small cheap and versatile, that one's $800 instead of $1400 for the MODX, and it weighs 11.75 lbs instead of 15 lbs. Overall, the MODX is more flexible and sonically stronger. The DS isn't bad, though, and besides being cheaper and lighter, also gives you the trigger pads if that might be useful, and some basic stuff like creating/controlling 2-way splits and layers is simpler/faster. As I mentioned, the DS also lets you play your backing tracks off a USB stick, so that's another way to free up the iPad for other uses (e.g. other custom samples).

 

Other small/light multifunction rompler-style boards you could pair with the Nord would include the Yamaha MX49, Roland AX-Edge, Korg Kross 61, each under 10 lbs, each with their own pros and cons. Any will still give you most of the second-board benefits we've been talking about (though not the Juno's ability to load keyboard-playable custom samples). MX49 is cheapest and lightest, AX-Edge gives you aftertouch and some keytar fun if you want it (also better MIDI functionality than the MX49), Kross is the lightest 61 (and has the most MIDI functionality of any of them).

[erik_nie]

Using iPad as sound-source is possible, i tested several apps including BS-16i.

As i now use the iPad for backing with left click and right audio, adding a synth there is not that easy. Not to mention all the extra cabling, Camera interface. Perhaps using a another audio interface....

Backing tracks on a DS61 is only stereo, so no option to have a separate click out. That does not work.

 

I now use a Rolls PM351 to balance the output from the Nord, I can hear the click (via the mic-loop) and get a stereo mix from the FOH desk.

Works great. I stick it to the side of the Stage.

I need to add a small potmeter somewhere to level the backing track to my keys mix (output from ipad is set to max, not easy to fiddle with it during playing)

 

I'll post some pictures soon and keep you informed on the progress.

Single board seems to be feasible.

[AnotherScott]

I need to add a small potmeter somewhere to level the backing track to my keys mix (output from ipad is set to max, not easy to fiddle with it during playing)

As mentioned above: "If you're using {the iPad} for two different sounds that you want to easily control, you could use a device like the DSan LSP-2 to give you easy access to independent volume of two mono sounds out of the iPad "(in this case, click and backing track)

 

Backing tracks on a DS61 is only stereo, so no option to have a separate click out. That does not work.

Hmmm... Your backing track is mono, with click on the other (left) side... I suppose you might be able to run that on the DS if you set up all your sounds to be mono, so your stereo outs on the DS were "DS sounds+backing track" on the right. leaving nothing but click on the left. Or you could possibly go the Roland FA-06 which I believe can play backing tracks from SD card but also has a second assignable stereo out. The FA doesn't have the DS61's ability to load any keyboard playable custom sample based sounds, but if you're freeing up the iPad for BS-16i, that wouldn't be needed. Or as you've suggested, maybe you can get by without any custom sample space beyond what's in the Nord.

 

Alternatively, if you wanted to use your iPad as a synth/sample sound source, you could use some other device to play the backing and click (e.g. a smartphone, another iPad, an iPod Touch). But you seem optimisitic about getting all the sounds you need out of the Nord, so that could all be unnecessary. Leaving the only reasons to still consider a second board the other things mentioned (i.e. some combination of backup if there's a problem, greater ability to grab sounds on-the-fly mid-song without having to set things up in advance, more keys available for your sounds to minimize worrying about accidentally crossing split points). If that's of interest and you don't need the DS61's capabilities for custom samples or backing track playback, you might just as well go with one of the cheaper and/or lighter options mentioned above (Yamaha MX49, Roland AX-Edge, Korg Kross 61... I believe those last two can play backing tracks too, if it matters). Or, if you want your second board to be a bit stronger for organ (getting back to your only complaint about the MODX), the Roland VR09B could be another option there. Another cheap/light board is the Korg i3, it's big limitation is that it has no 5-pin MIDI IN (only an OUT), so you couldn't directly drive its sounds from the Nord.

[erik_nie]

 

Extra bulk on my nord stage 3:

 

Rolls pm351 for mixing and DI to FOH

inputs:

- click (via mic loop)

- Stereo keys (via DI to FOH)

- stereo aux from FOH

 

Self made volume box

This box will take the left part of the iPad via volume potmeter to L+R input stage

Take the right part to the mic input of the Rolls (no volume needed). This will go the FOH via the mic output from the Rolls so everybody can hear the click on their in-ear mix

 

ipad holder

I used a small piece of u profile with long screws to fit in the sheet holder construction

 

[EscapeRocks]

Cool!

 

How do you secure the PM351 to the side ?

[erik_nie]

I glued a small piece of metal on the Rolls and used velcro (klittenband) to stick it to the stage. Works great and I used this for years with other synths.

 

[AnotherScott]

Velcro works wonders! I remember someone here also recommended some other kind of sticky stuff from 3M that doesn't leave all the residue when removed.

 

Impressive work all around though, very industrious! I can't build anything, so I'd have had to buy Nord's music stand and that DSan box I mentioned. ;-)

[CEB]

'New keyboards suck.' - CEB

[EscapeRocks]

Very Nice Eric!

 

Thank you. I used to velcro mine to the top of the board, but on the MODX8 there's a not a good place on the left side to do so, so I've been thinking about doing exactly what you've done.