Ray Manzarek & Bass Pedals ?

[Keysguy]

A new friend of mine is a real music junkie. He doesn't play an instrument but has a super expensive stereo, large collection of vinyl including some highly collectable pieces, reads a lot on music subjects and in his younger days was all over the country and went to a ton of concerts. IE: Zepplin 3 times ! I'm jealous LOL We have great discussions on music, mostly Classic Rock and during the last one the Doors came up. I commented that it was Ray and Felix of the Rascals that influenced me to learn to do bass on pedals and keyboard. He swears when he saw them live Manzarek used bass pedals. I said no way and have not found any evidence of this.

Settle our discussion if you can THANKS

[Franz Schiller]

Certainly, I've seen that Ray M used a volume pedal.

 

Also, your friend is not a musician per se, and probably has a loose idea of what "bass pedals" are, so might have been mixing up his concepts of "pedals."

 

Add to that, the fact that it's been at least half a century since your pal saw the Doors live. Finally, if he was at a Doors show, he might have been on payote or some other herb.

[Keysguy]

Franz

Most of what you said I agree with. Maybe a volume pedal but this guy does know what bass pedals are. And yes it was a long time ago and he readily admits to using some recreational substances during his younger days. He is a super intelligent guy who knows loads of info on bands, preformers, etc. so I just didn't brush off his claim. I am very much int keyboard players who do the bass lines so the topic interested me. For years I couldn't figure out how Jimmy Smith did those bass lines on stock pedals alone, he did LH bass too.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

I've never seen Ray play pedals, or heard him talk about it -- and he was never shy about discussing his gear or technique. John Paul Jones used bass pedals regularly while playing keyboards and mandolin, of course, and if your friend saw Zeppelin live as well as the Doors, the haze of years passed (substances or not) can do that sort of thing to memory. Every now and then I'll find an old picture or video that contradicts a very vivid memory that my brain has adjusted over the years based on other available information. It's a fascinating thing, the human mind...

[mate stubb]

Don't know what Ray would have used. There were no stand alone bass pedal units that I can remember in the 60s. Vox Continental didn't have pedals either.

 

I've seen 1 octave pedal units for the Gibson G101 (and had a set for my Farfisa), but don't believe he ever played them live.

[Docbop]

I saw the Doors two or three times back in the day. I played guitar and bass back then not keys, but I knew what bass pedals were and don't remember seeing Ray play bass pedals. I remember the first time he had the Rhodes Bass Keyboard.

 

Have to say the Doors were a great show back then Jim Morrison was a hell of a frontman creating a atmosphere that really fit the lyrics.

[Keysguy]

The Zepplin thing was also in the back of my mind so maybe thats it.

BTW I also had pedals for my Farfisa and later my Gibson. When I moved up to the B3 I tried and tried to play a smooth bass on the pedals and finally had a NOVA IV bass unit installed to add sustain and a seperate out to a bass amp. HEAVEN !

[KeyMoe]

I think VOX Continental II did have a bass pedal option called the

Vox foot clavier. Not sure what year they were released.

[cp-the-nerd]

Memory is a fickle thing. We can absolutely swear by something and simply be wrong because after 10, 20, 30 years, memories change and frequently get mixed together. I'm only 33, but I have been blindsided by old photos that totally contradict my "clearest" memories.

[JohnH]

I can confirm Ray never used bass pedals at all. No point to that when his left hand was so amazing and more efficient on the Fender Rhodes Piano Bass.

[Shamanczarek]

There are plenty of photos and videos of The Doors out there and not one shows bass pedals other than maybe the C3 he used in the studio. The earliest live recordings of The Doors at The London Fog were done before Ray had the Piano Bass so there is no bass at all on there other than Ray's left hand on the Continental. The Gibson/Kalamazoo and dual Keyboard Continentals did have optional bass pedals. No photos or video show Ray using bass pedals with the Gibson and he never used a double manual Continental. Robby Krieger had a band in the 90s called The Robby Krieger Organization which featured Skip Van Winkel of Teagarden and Van Winkel as well was Bob Seger's band who did bass on Hammond pedals.

 

[video:youtube]

[EricBarker]

Question: when people think of Ray they always Vox Continental, but I read a while back that after the first 2 albums he pretty much switched to Gibson Kalamazoo/Lowery (similar to what Pete Townsend used). Is it because the Vox is such a bigger name or that he debuted with it that everyone think of him exclusively as a 'Vox Player'?

[SamuelBLupowitz]

Question: when people think of Ray they always Vox Continental, but I read a while back that after the first 2 albums he pretty much switched to Gibson Kalamazoo/Lowery (similar to what Pete Townsend used). Is it because the Vox is such a bigger name or that he debuted with it that everyone think of him exclusively as a 'Vox Player'?

I think it might be like Paul McCartney with the Hofner bass -- it's what he was using when the band first made a big splash, at early concerts and big TV appearances like the Ed Sullivan show, so it's what sticks in people's minds (particularly non-musicians). With McCartney, the sound of a lot of the truly legendary studio works is his Rickenbacker bass, much like how Ray spent more of the Doors' career playing an organ other than the Vox, but for the casual fan those sort of images can get frozen in time along with the early songs.

 

Anyway, one man's crackpot theory!

[mate stubb]

First two Doors albums were Vox. The Gibson made its debut on Waiting For the Sun. You can hear its unmistakeable sustain stops on The Unknown Soldier and Spanish Caravan. Ray has said that he switched from Vox due to his habit of breaking keys on it.

 

The first 2 albums were released only 9 months apart and were of a piece. Material for both albums was already worked out ahead of being signed, and it is completely obvious that the arrangements benefitted from being worked out on stage - especially the longer, more improvisational pieces.

[EricBarker]

This pretty much aligns with what I thought. People will usually remember what you debuted with. I"ve also figured that the relative simplicity and price If the Vox elevated its status among organs as the 'working mans keyboard', beloved by phsychedelic garage punk in the 60s-70s. I don"t have the prices on hand, but I"ve always assumed the Farfisa and Gibson"s were quite a bit more expensive (but I could be wrong). People like to see their heroes using affordable gear!

 

Personally, I find the Vox brittle and hard to listen to. It was the sound of an era, though, to be sure!

[Shamanczarek]

The Gibson organ became Ray's primary live instrument for most shows but he did return to the Vox for some 1969 appearances. Most likely if he was breaking keys it was on plastic key Italian-made Continentals as the earlier wooden key British and American models were very durable. I've only seen a couple of photos of Ray with an Italian Continental and one of them is on the Absolutely Live album cover at what appears to be a rehearsal or recording session.

 

Ray did continue to use a Vox in the studio along with the Gibson up until the LA Woman album. The Vox and Gibson can be seen in photos from the LA Woman sessions along with the Hammond C3, Fender Rhodes, and Wurlitzer. In one photo and some video footage what appears to be a Farfisa FAST 5 can be seen.

 

On the Absolutely Live album and other live albums all songs recorded at the Aquarius Theatre Hollywood in 1969 feature Vox organ. Recordings from the Felt Forum New York and other venues in 1970 have the Gibson although a few recordings cited as being from the Felt Forum sound like a Vox to me. The Doors played two consecutive nights at the Felt Forum with two shows a night so it could be possible they switched to the Vox for one show. When The Doors appeared on the PBS TV Critique show in 1969 Ray played only a Vox.