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Trouble deciding on small synth


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Arggg! I keep going around and around in my head of which synth to buy. It's been a long time since I got myself some new kit, and I'd really like to have an analog: one nob to one function synth after years of software. I just realize that with software, I never map things to my controller and I'm never creative about my sound design modulation while gigging. I'm in the middle of recording an album right now, and it would be fun to go back through some of the synth tracks and rerecord with some "hands on" synth patches. The other catch is I'm probably moving in a few months, and my wife is like, "don't get anything too big", and she's absolutely right. I was going to gift myself a new synth if I made my work goal for the month, and I'm pretty close.

 

After much deliberation, I felt the MinilogueXD seemed to fit a lot of my needs. I'm not crazy about mini keys, but it occurred to me that at its small stature, I'm much more likely to throw it in the car and take it to practice/gigs. If I need more precision and AT, I can hook it up to my controller In the studio... But then I started reading about the DSI Pro-3, and I'm in love. The Prophet has always been my dream synth, but the Pro-3 has even more possibilities, and I'm not really in the need of a poly right now (another strike against the Minilogue). That said, it's about twice the size and 4x the weight of the Minilogue. I'm considering getting the mini now and then saving up for a Pro-3 down the line after I move.

 

I'm about to pull my hair out going back and forth on this!

Puck Funk! :)

 

Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat?

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The main deciding factor should be the number of engines the XD will hold, with the meaningful expansion of capabilities it offers. Tim Shoebridge just released a solid Korg DW8000 engine for it. Here's a fairly comprehensive list so far.

 

Korg XD engines

 

The Pro-3 is a thing of beauty, but its on another level, as you point out. Its a Big Commitment synth. The XD can be played as a monosynth and not just a 4-voice, which might color your views on it. In the end, it mainly depends on the kind of monosynth you most need your choice to be. I enjoy libraries, but that may mean less to you if your goal is to channel Jan Hammer leads. Between the base power, lower price & size and happier wife, your choice seems clear. He said. When its not his money or wife at issue. :hitt::/

 "I want to be an intellectual, but I don't have the brainpower.
  The absent-mindedness, I've got that licked."
        ~ John Cleese

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I'm considering getting the mini now and then saving up for a Pro-3 down the line after I move.

 

I like this idea. It'll save you some headaches, and the xD will only whet your appetite for the Pro 3 further. The extra voices might come in handy at times, too.

 

Course, by the time you're ready to buy the Pro 3, Dave may have released something else. :evil:

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Yeah, this is all pretty much echoing my own thoughts. I'm more of a 70s prog and fusion rocker than an EDM "producer", so at the end of the day it's "hands on keys" for me. That's why the Pro-3 seems like my dream synth. I'm familiar with the Minilogue's robust mono capabilities, and I suspect I'll be leaving it in mono mode most of the time. I'm looking at this as 80% lead board, whatever I get. That said, once I get my hands on a good synth and start experimenting, I never know what I may come up with. A few times I've written tunes around "weird" synth patches, and I love it when that kind of stuff happens. That is one of the upsides to the MinilogueXD, Korg always loads their synths with very creative presets, and I've heard the Mini is no exception. Then I start noodling, twiddling, and I've got something new. I know less about Dave's presets, and the Pro-3 obviously doesn't have the digital wavetable capabilities. I've got a million Wavetable VSTs that I use at gigs, so I'm a little less excited about that, but combined with hands-on hardware, that could excite me again.

 

Yeah, I'm leaning back toward the Mini for now. I think it's the "smart" route. Maybe not the one that excites me the most, but sometimes that's less important. Musician's gotta use our brains! Oh, and I'm not disagreeing with the wife on this one, at all. I'm moving back from Honolulu to Alaska, and it's not gonna be pretty. I'm going to have to ditch a few boards as it is, so it would suck to have to take something else. I'll keep the box and packing around, and re-ship it when it comes. at 6lbs, it won't be that big of a deal. But the Pro-3 at 22lbs would be an ordeal.

 

One concern, for anyone who's owned a MinilogueXD. I hear there's been some complaints with the envelopes reseting during voice stealing. I do know this to be an issue on slower attack sounds like pads. It's not a deal breaker, but it does sound a little strange that it hasn't been addressed. Anyone know if this issue has been corrected in a firmware update?

Puck Funk! :)

 

Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat?

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There are so many choices today for analog. Other than the Pro 3, that I have and love, my favorite picks would be:

 

DSI Mono Evolver Keyboard

Hypersynth Xenophone - a little-known gem

Dreadbox Typhon - a tiny monster

MFB Dominion 1

Moog Grandmother

 

but there are several others that you might like. I'd suggest you do some research before committing.

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One question to ask yourself is whether you are particularly wanting analog to nail a particular vintage prog sound or whether you wish to use analog for creativity. Both valid, IMO.

 

Easy: Analog for creativity. And I'm not completely opposed to a virtual analog either, but I'm not as crazy about the workflow styles of many digital VAs. I figured, if I want to get back to basics with analog workflow and sound, I might as well go all the way, within reason of course. As a live performer, I think it would be silly not to have presets, and some decent effects (phaser, chorus, delay) wouldn't hurt either, but I don't need anything too crazy in those areas either (I'm pretty light on effects for live use).

 

There are so many choices today for analogâ¦

 

I've looked into some of those. But I'm also unilaterally passing on any that don't have a decent built-in keybed. Many of those are great for studio and eurorack setups, but that's really not where I'm headed. Grandmother, similarly, with it's semi-modular design is super neat, but better served for studio junky stuff than hauling to weakly gigs/practices. That said, the Evolver and the Dominion are new to me, I'll give them a look. I should mention the Hydrasynth also caught my eye, of course... but the demos just didn't grab me like the Sequential stuff, and it seems maybe a little too "slick" for what I'm after.

Puck Funk! :)

 

Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat?

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If you're looking for the ultimate purist analog experience with no digital faff getting in the way, go Moog. Personally I find the Grandmother's layout just a bit restrictive because of the lack of aftertouch as a modulation source and the relatively small module complement, and the Matriarch, while glorious-looking, might be a bit too big for you, but they're both pretty amazing semimodulars. The Matriarch, in particular, gives synths like the ARP 2600 a run for the money in terms of flexibility of patching.

 

The Pro 3, from my brief workout with it, is an amazingly flexible synth (although a Big Commitment, as David pointed out), but my right brain didn't dig it. I really need the right sound, and it takes a huge and very flexible Left Brain experience for me to overcome niggling Right Brain doubts. (The Arturia MatrixBrute is a great example; I am willing to work with an oscillator timbre that needs a bit of massaging in exchange for everything else it can do.) Interestingly, the Korg Wavestate goes in the opposite direction to some extent: my Left Brain is taking note of things that I wish it did a little differently, while my Right Brain is going (and this is a technical term) "wheeeee!" :D

 

I admit that I have always admired DSI/Sequential synths for their features and layout, but their sounds just never clicked with me. But that's me.

Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) :D

Musician, Author, Editor, Educator, Impresario, Online Radio Guy, Cut-Rate Polymath, and Kindly Pedant

Editor-in-Chief, Bjooks ~ Author of SYNTH GEMS 1

 

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After a lot of deliberation, I'm getting a Minilogue XD module myself. It has a ton of features and power for the money. Like someone else mentioned, the XD actually has two methods of playing mono, so it essentially has the Korg Monologue functionality built into it.

 

The flexibility of the open-source digital multi-engine from the Prologue synths and 300 empty user slots for voices means there will always be new sound packs to keep the synth fresh, I have already found several user-created sound packs that are excellent just from perusing youtube demos.

 

I also noticed they hold value pretty well, so it's a minimal loss if I choose to sell it for whatever reason.

Keyboards: Nord Electro 6D 73, Korg SV-1 88, Minilogue XD, Yamaha YPG-625

Bonus: Boss RC-3 Loopstation

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The Dominion1 looks INCREDIBLE! This may replace the Pro3 as my dream mono synth. I pretty much love all of the choices they made, and it sounds fantastic. Only thing I would have added would be a very simple reverb or stereo delay (best), but a stomp box could easily rectify that.

 

That being said... I keep coming back to the MinilogueXD being the 'smart' choice. It took me a good half hour, but when I finally found the Dom1s specs, it came out to about 20lbs, and though slightly smaller in stature to the Pro3, is still a bit of kit to fly with. It"s also very hard to find and up in the Pro3/Sub37/MatrixBrute price bracket. All this is to say: it"s a serious synth to look at 9 months down the line after I"ve moved.

 

I"m one of the few who prefers control wheels/joysticks above the keybed instead of the side. I never found it to effect playability, and it allows the manufacturer to put it in a slightly smaller box. The Dom1 looks like a fantastic exercise in space efficiency.

Puck Funk! :)

 

Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat?

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Ugh... I'm listening to more demos of the Minilogue, and the more I hear it, the more it really doesn't grab me. But I'm not sure that's fair. Everything I hear is super wet and processed, lots of EDM sequences and juicy pads, not really what I'm interested in. I'm unsure if this is just the focus of the demos, or whether this just isn't for me. It does occur to me more and more that I have no interest in about 75% of the features of this synth (sequencer, arpeggiator, most of the effects). When the I heard the Dominion1 demo and the guy just turned on the Oscillators without any processing, my ears just went "woah!" Thing is, I haven't even been able to make that call because no one demonstrates it with just the oscillators alone.

Puck Funk! :)

 

Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat?

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When the I heard the Dominion1 demo and the guy just turned on the Oscillators without any processing, my ears just went "woah!" Thing is, I haven't even been able to make that call because no one demonstrates it with just the oscillators alone.

 

Yeah I get it! Tone makes the difference.

 

While playing in a Zappa/Dead tribute band, I had to bring analog (of the thick, heavy kind) in order to keep up. Two oscillator Moog thickened again through overdrive circuit of Moog delay. No fancy synthesis. Creativity through simple tricks like portamento, intense LFO and FM/noise. Dominion1 is the real deal.... (I believe you would have to step up to Pro 3 / Matriarch / Matrixbrute for comparable 3 oscillator tone)

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Ugh... I'm listening to more demos of the Minilogue, and the more I hear it, the more it really doesn't grab me. But I'm not sure that's fair. Everything I hear is super wet and processed, lots of EDM sequences and juicy pads, not really what I'm interested in. I'm unsure if this is just the focus of the demos, or whether this just isn't for me. It does occur to me more and more that I have no interest in about 75% of the features of this synth (sequencer, arpeggiator, most of the effects). When the I heard the Dominion1 demo and the guy just turned on the Oscillators without any processing, my ears just went "woah!" Thing is, I haven't even been able to make that call because no one demonstrates it with just the oscillators alone.

 

Search "Minilogue XD Push-Pull" on youtube. There are 4 different patch demo videos by Push-Pull that really bring some cool sounds out of the synth and show its potential.

 

Here's one of them.

 

[video:youtube]

Keyboards: Nord Electro 6D 73, Korg SV-1 88, Minilogue XD, Yamaha YPG-625

Bonus: Boss RC-3 Loopstation

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Ugh... I'm listening to more demos of the Minilogue, and the more I hear it, the more it really doesn't grab me. But I'm not sure that's fair. Everything I hear is super wet and processed, lots of EDM sequences and juicy pads, not really what I'm interested in. I'm unsure if this is just the focus of the demos, or whether this just isn't for me. It does occur to me more and more that I have no interest in about 75% of the features of this synth (sequencer, arpeggiator, most of the effects). When the I heard the Dominion1 demo and the guy just turned on the Oscillators without any processing, my ears just went "woah!" Thing is, I haven't even been able to make that call because no one demonstrates it with just the oscillators alone.

 

One of the most important things you can do is try out a synth with the effects turned off. They can make a major difference in the instrument's ultimate usability, but you have to know what the base voice is about first. It sounds to me as though you really do need an analog synth. The Korg would "make" you do a lot more work in bringing that aspect of it to the front.

 

I started with a MiniMoog, so I have a strong 3-osc. tri-tone bias. I leaned towards effects in a bid to compensate for the more common 2 oscillator designs. I can easily understand that gut response. I wish we could hold bake sales for the deserving among us who can't quite manage the next price point at a key moment. I've been there, so I'd buy a box of Buchla Bars to help out.

 "I want to be an intellectual, but I don't have the brainpower.
  The absent-mindedness, I've got that licked."
        ~ John Cleese

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LOL, I started out with a Buchla modular in college (no keyboard). All the while, there was an ARP 2600 RIGHT BESIDE IT, and I never touched it because I didn't know what it was. Stupid thing is, during all that time I was worshipping Joe Zowinul (Odyssey) and 70s Tony Banks (Pro Soloist), while the 2600 is just right around the corner from both. I feel like the biggest tool when I look back at that. I have a pretty solid background and experience with subtractive synthesis in general. But it is true that I've never personally owned an actual analog.

 

At this point, cost really isn't the biggest issue... it's acceptance that I'm not really a studio junky these days, my main interest is live performance and playing with others (whenever we get back to it). So any gear I buy I have to ask myself, "do I want to lug this to a rehearsal?" With my 88 key workstation and Mojo61 already in my live rig, I'm jonesing for something small that won't be a big hassle. For similar reasons, i don't want to have to hook up modular/eurorack or a desktop synth with an external keybed. The Minilogue is diminuative and will ask to be brought along. I think Moog made a poor decision with its "tri-lobe" Phatty design, that's an awkward shape and makes even the Sub25 large and unwieldily. Frankly, the Dominion1 looks easier to travel than the underpowered Sub25.

 

Listening to the "Push-Pull" demos got me thinking: that's not really what I was after with a lead synth, but those are finally some awfully good poly patches. They're pretty drenched, which I'm not crazy about, but I can tell the base sound is pretty solid. This would be a handy tool to have around, even after I get a larger mono down the road.

Puck Funk! :)

 

Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat?

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Hmmm, you might be right. Just the other day I was reading an article about the Odyssey and listed him as a player, so I started thinking, "maybe I'm misremembering", but yeah, my original thought is that that he used a 2600. I'm still seeing his name listed in passing in Odyssey articles, but it may be incorrect.

Puck Funk! :)

 

Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat?

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Eric, I too have tried to make the software synths happen live; we've both run into similar roadblocks. Long story short I did an embarrassing bunch of 'horse trading', late 2018 to mid 2019; truly a 'squirrel in the headlights' GAS era. Had a 61-key controller w/iPad-based synth models; sold the controller and bought a Minilogue XD, then felt constrained by the smaller keys/shorter action, so the XD went back for a Blofeld Keyboard, which I thought would create a best-of-both-worlds scenario - 4 octave VA with Wavetables, to also be used as a controller for my iPad Moog and IK MM models. Late 2019 I sold the Blofeld. In retrospect, buying a Prologue 8 would've been better in the first place.

 

I greatly enjoyed the sound and flexibility of the Minilogue XD, and suspect the Prologue would've impressed me as well. Korg has a way of putting very practical gigging/recording patches in the 'logue series. So I would certainly agree with your thoughts re the XD choice.

Love what I've listen to and read about the Pro-3, but yeah, it's a big step in many ways. I've thought about a Minilogue XD module, or even giving the Minilogue XD keyboard another shot, but am somewhat GAS shy right now; too much economic crap for me in 2020.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Listening to the "Push-Pull" demos got me thinking: that's not really what I was after with a lead synth, but those are finally some awfully good poly patches. They're pretty drenched, which I'm not crazy about, but I can tell the base sound is pretty solid. This would be a handy tool to have around, even after I get a larger mono down the road.

 

I figured Push-Pull would either...ugh god I'm sorry about this...push you away or pull you in. Either sell you on it or prove it's not a good fit.

 

Have you listened to any Korg Monologue demos? It's entirely mono/lead focused so the videos would show you what you could do with the Minilogue XD mono settings.

Keyboards: Nord Electro 6D 73, Korg SV-1 88, Minilogue XD, Yamaha YPG-625

Bonus: Boss RC-3 Loopstation

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It did solidify some things, yes. But it also got me thinking that for more complex tones, there might be less reason to use a hands on hardware bore. I started thinking... man, I could get all those things and more with Serum or Pigments or Massive, and the hardware becomes less important. That sent me down another path entirely about what kind of patches would be most useful to use a physical board for, and it really would be a vintage mono synth or early poly synth. Honestly, the MinilogueXD seems aimed and best at big lush newer sound design patches...

 

...all this lead to I need/want a 3-Osc monosynth, I need a Minimoog, I can"t afford a Minimoog... I really should swollow my pride and get a Boog. So after much deliberation and watching of YouTube vids, I think my best bet would be to get a Poly D, screw presets, really learn to dial in patches mid gig.

 

I think the Poly D sounds like an instrument I could develop around, rather than an instrument I MAKE do what I want. I want the instrument to lead me, and I just wasn"t getting that feeling with the Logue.

 

There"s still a part of me that thinks I could go for a Mode D, but the after touch and chorus really sold me on the Poly.

Puck Funk! :)

 

Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat?

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There"s still a part of me that thinks I could go for a Mode D, but the after touch and chorus really sold me on the Poly.

 

Very cool that Poly D has aftertouch, though the direct CV inputs are for pitch, volume and filter (which may be a useful option, I've performed with aftertouch on pitch but it's easy to screw up). I am used to aftertouch-vibrato. Stage space precluded a standalone analog keyboard so for me it was a two oscillator module with aftertouch-vibrato. (Today, I would consider an SE-O2.) As it turned out, I've used aftertouch-vibrato more when sitting in with Blues guitarists than for Prog and Fusion. :laugh:

 

Back to you .. the four oscillators should give you all the thickness you need. As you know the original Mini layout is brilliantly simple for someone like you. Patch memory won't be an issue. Loopop and Tim Shoebridge have excellent YouTube reviews/tips, which you might have seen.

 

All the best! Please keep us posted ... :thu:

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I may have a solution for the after touch vibrato thing. The unit supposedly does send Aftertouch MIDI, and can receive Mod Wheel midi. So if it"s hooked up to a computer, I just write a 5min Max/MSP patch to change AT to mod and send it back. Of course that would knock out the mod wheel, but I"d rather play vib with AT anyway.

 

I am hearing some reports that there may be a way of routing AT to LFO level, but I"m not sure.

 

The one question I have is when using mod wheel, how do I control the mod depth? From what I"ve seen playing with some Mini soft synths, the mod wheel becomes incredibly touchy for playing vibrato, the slightlest couch send it into warbler territory.

Puck Funk! :)

 

Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat?

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