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Speaker size


artdob

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I'd also choose one BassBoss vs two KS-112's any day of the week.

Although my days of dual subs are well behind me (and beyond the OP's needs as I mentioned above), there is an advantage of 2 subs compared to 1, in minimizing the effects of standing waves (i.e. the bass will be more even throughout the venue).

 

Well, it depends how they are arrayed, in my experience. Two subs put left and right make a massive power alley down the center every time. Often it is best to center cluster multiple subs instead of spreading them. The comb filter effects are big. You certainly can excite different modal response in smaller rooms with multiple subs put it different places. Which approach is better is impossible to say without trying it, and changes room to room. But it is usually worth trying the subs in more than one place if they are on dolly boards and easy to move... But, given the application, one will do, as you observe.

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I know professional sound company engineers that would never specify any 8" speaker for a music event, and would only specify a 12 or 15 as a matter of principle.

 

But data might be more useful than opinion:

 

82 Hz is approximately "E2" (2nd "E" under middle C)

61Hz is approximately "B1" (second "B" from the bottom of a piano keyboard)

41 Hz is approximately "E1" (low note on a 4 string bass, lowest "E" on a piano keyboard)

27 Hz is approximately "A0" (the lowest note on an 88 note piano)

 

Playing with a bass player, and staying out of the way? 80Hz will do nicely. To get two octaves of "C" under middle C, you need solid response to 60Hz. You want to match 4 string bass - 40Hz is your target. The low note on the Hammond organ pedalboard is C2, but the 16' stop plays C1 when that key is depressed. C1 is 32Hz approximately (the lowest "C" on a piano keyboard).

 

Generally speakers are starting to roll-off about 10Hz above whatever their 10dB down point is. By 10dB down, they are definitely soft and response is fading unmistakeably.

 

The QSC 8.2 has been mentioned several times. It is specified as -6db @ 59Hz, -10dB @ 55Hz. So, this will give reliable response down to C2 (65Hz)and start to roll off. Clearly useful for a lot of things. (The porting significantly lowers the natural response of an 8" driver....). The 8.2 has a 105 degree coverage pattern. That is quite wide - whether that is good or bad is venue dependent. It is 27lbs. That is quite light. It's easy to see why it's been recommended more than once in this thread. Hammond organ pedals play an octave lower than this speaker has coverage for. I would expect solid pedal bass to need a sub if the bass is a "featured instrument". The decision is how important that low octave is in context of the music, setting, etc. The QSC 8.2's probably sound even better if high-passed at 80 or 100Hz and letting a sub take the lowest stuff off their plate. A sub like the KS-112 or 212 would help, but still not get the C1 (16') fundamental firm, the C2 (8') would be solid, though. At the price of the 212, I'd spend the extra and get the BassBoss 15" mentioned above. I'd also choose one BassBoss vs two KS-112's any day of the week. But that's me.

 

The QSC 10.2 doesn't offer much deeper bass, but has a narrower dispersion pattern. The 12.2 extends the -6 dB point down to 50Hz, and the -10dB point to 44Hz. That is A#1, and F1 respectively. No recommendation. Just reading spec sheets so it translates into notes on a keyboard. The 12.2 has a 75 degree coverage pattern (much narrower than the 8.2). It weighs 38 lbs, which is still pretty light for a PA speaker. Unless the size and 10lbs weight difference really matter, I'd pick the 12" every time. But you already know that my tolerance for gear schlepping is "unusual" on this board.

 

Both speakers don't have true max SPL specifications. They are "calculated" theoretical max SPLs. They will never make those numbers. I'd assume they make 10dB less than that and probably sound best 15dB below these ratings. Plenty loud for small indoor spaces. Inverse square law applies outdoors (it does inside too, but you get reflections and room gain). So assuming about 118dB peak output, at 40' you'd still get 100dB SPL. Whether you like the sound quality at that volume level would have to be auditioned. Knock 5dB for sound quality preferences, and it makes about 94dB @ 40' outdoors. This is all back-of-the-napkin figures - don't take it too literal.

 

I haven't heard the .2 series, so I have no comment on the sound quality. Just trying to frame the specs in musical terms. I can see why folk like them for general keyboard duty. The price is great. I don't think you'll get bass response equivalent to a Leslie out of the 8.2 without a sub, based on the spec sheets.

 

I would just like to note that my recommendation of a pair of QSC 8.2 speakers came with an additional recommendation for a 10" subwoofer. Our bassist has one of these: https://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/kustom-pa-pa110-sc-10-in-powered-subwoofer The specs on frequency repsonse lack detail. Doesn't matter, it will fatten up smaller speakers nicely, is fairly compact and not too heavy.

 

In a small room it gets deep enough to please most people. I am not the least bit concerned about pleasing studio engineers or professional soundmen, maybe one shows up here and there. Mostly, they are out doing their own gigs. If audiences are happy, I am happy. Yes, I would love it if my Roland Cube 40 gx would magically become a Mesa half stack AFTER I've set it on stage, and equally happy to have it shrink back down when it's time to load out. The audience is probably happier that it stays at it's current size and power. My back is happier too!!!!!

 

I've played LOTS of small clubs. Sometimes you can barely hear yourself because the audience talking amongst themselves and the clinking glasses etc. nearly drown you out. If they really wanted to go to a concert, they would have gone to one. They didn't, they wanted to hang out with friends, talk, have a drink or two and maybe dance a little.

 

Plumbers fix burst pipes because ignoring them is a disaster. Musicians get hired to play in small clubs because people come to see them and spend money. Glorified beer salesman / babysitting alcoholics, take your pick.

Doesn't mean you can't have a fine old time playing fun tunes with friends and sounding great. PPP - Paid Practice Program...

 

It's another world when people pay admission just to hear the music. We have that too, just not in a small club.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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I use Bose L1 model 2 with the B2 larger bass cabinet. powerful and very clean. many of my customers have commented on how good the bose system sounds as compared to my Mackie powered speakers. on one occasion a customer who hired my requested I bring the bose system to the gig. I'll get flack for this post...â¦â¦â¦â¦â¦...Larry
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Because the OP said they didn"t want gear that would break their back I offered up gear that I use (I.e. my schlep requirements are similar). I bought the MarkBass CMD 121P bass amp because I gig with a few bass players who use it and I like how it sounds (and feels). It has a 12' speaker, weighs 26 lbs., and has a frequency spec. of 45 Hz to 18 kHz. I"m very happy with this amp for LH bass.
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