Yamaha YC61 Announced

[Fleer]

Okay, getting interested myself. What"s the lowest price to aim at?

[Fleer]

Still looking at this. Best price for available?

[cp-the-nerd]

Okay, getting interested myself. What"s the lowest price to aim at?

 

A new YC-61 is $1,999 everywhere I look.

[rogs]

In the UK the YC61 price has already dropped around £200 from the street price in May .. now c.£1485 (around $1900) -- and that includes a 20% sales tax!

Unusual for the US prices to be higher than the UK? -- it's the UK that is normally known to sellers as 'Treasure Island'

[Fleer]

True. I wonder where those is going.

[niacin]

So my part of the world (a few hours south west of Sydney) has reached a sort of Covid normal and suddenly live music is back with a vengeance (no dancing though atm). So I"ve had four gigs with an electric blues band in the past two weeks and took my YC61 ...

 

⦠and a Vent (Vent II).

 

The internal Leslie sim is pleasantly musical but when I hold a note in the top octave and kick the Leslie to tremolo there"s just none of the impact I"m looking for. It"s almost like there"s a dry drawbar sound in the middle of the Leslie effect, if that makes any sense. I like the dirt and grit in the Yamaha so I use it"s cabinet model and turn off the Vent"s, and just leave the Yamaha Leslie sim on stop.

 

The other sounds I used were clav, wurli and a synth pad, all sounded good, the clav and wurli benefitting from tweaked amp models and drive in the Yamaha.

 

For this band I like the YC61 better than my SK1 because of the dirt and grit and in the clonewheel modelling, but it definitely needs a Vent, and I"m still learning to remember to switch it to bypass when I pull up a non-organ sound.

 

atm though, yes I'd buy it again.

[AnotherScott]

I"m still learning to remember to switch it to bypass when I pull up a non-organ sound.

Yeah, I ran into the same issue many years ago using a Korg G4 Rotary pedal on a board... going back to that board at some point in the next song, forgetting that the last thing I used it for was organ, and then my brass would have Leslie effect on it. That (and the inability to put the effect on just the organ sound if it's split/layered with another sound) is why I really look for, if not separate assignable outs, at least the ability to pan sounds to different sides (so left and right become a pair of mono outs). It's irritating that so many boards with organ engines don't support this. Maybe it's hubris that Yamaha, Roland (VR09/VR730), Korg (Vox Continental), Numa (Compact 2X), Dexibell (Combo J7) are so convinced of the quality of their built-in rotary sims that they feel no need to allow for this!

[rogs]

I had a colleague who had read about the YC61 rotary sim issues and asked me if it was a fuss about nothing?...

 

I made a short chord sequence which I repeated 3 times: http://www.jp137.com/las/YC61.Raw.InternalRotary.Vent.mp3

 

⢠Straight YC61 - no rotary.

 

⢠Internal rotary with the same settings (no dirt or grit added)

 

⢠Through a Vent 2

 

I told him he could decide for himself.

 

I appreciate that this 'raw' way of comparing is a little unrealistic ---- but I think it shows that a Vent can make quite a difference?

 

Here's hoping Yamaha engineers are working hard on an update to the YC61 internal rotary sim?...

[AUSSIEKEYS]

So my part of the world (a few hours south west of Sydney) has reached a sort of Covid normal and suddenly live music is back with a vengeance (no dancing though atm). So I"ve had four gigs with an electric blues band in the past two weeks and took my YC61

 

Mate thats good to know infact fantastic news for aussie giggers. Gives me hope.

 

Here in Melbourne we are virtualy under martial law. 6 months & we cant even see our kids living 2 minutes (less than a mile drive) away (we are limited to 5km travel distance for food) let alone band practise or heavens above a gig. Keeping in mind im very high risk Ive been obeying the impositions.

 

They've just opened us up to 25 km travel for basically same essentials and finally some family interaction. This distance is short of my band practise room but still not allowed band practises anyway even if in distance. My wife saw her 8 year old grand daughter first time in 6 months. Has not been able to intereact with her covid born grand daughter nor the other grandkids.

 

You give me hope that there will be band work but i think down here it wont be as instant as venues still arent allowed to open. Im not sure there'll be enough gigs to go around. And our bass player quits moving to country to escape Melbourne lockdowns. Ironically i moved from Sydney to here not that long ago. Bugger.

 

Now to the YC61. As this would be my ideal board im going to ask for alternative suggestions here as yours and others insights on this keyboard have been appreciated by me. Since joining this band down here ive never played so much organ.

 

Ive been following this thread with interest as Im wanting to add a keyboard with drawbars with small footprint to my gear. This board fits my criteria for small footprint and lightweight and not to mention its sounds & abilties as you guys have been telling us. Its seems the perfect answer for me but due to circumstances i cannot afford to buy this currently. But its perfect.

 

In fact im even tempted by the Reface YC as a stop gap affordable solution midied to my privia. Now they have built the YC61 im doubting they will build a normal key reface yc which would be an affordable option.

 

If my band goes back im setting myself up with my Alesis QSR6.1 above the privia to get my better or maybe more choices organ sounds than the privia.. Or integrate that Genovation I bought off you with some of my modules although that still doesnt address drawbars.

 

My choices all due to my health affecting carrying heavy gear are based on small form factor and being lightweight before addressing its abilties. I know i should be going for sounds but my carrying ability of gear far outweighs lusting for better sounds. Hey im ok with the alesis organ sounds so i probably like most modern organ sounds.

 

Heres what ive found that might suit me. Any i missed ? Unfortunately in Australia finding used locally of anything is difficult but would be my best bet. Im also not wanting to invest too much as im wondering whether my band days are over due to my health and having a 6 months layoff as gigs for old farts in melbourne may be a thing of the past.

 

 

The YC61 encompases everything id be happy with ligtweight & small size with great sounds but out of my price range. Used will still be too dear unfortunately. And finding a used one in Australia next to impossible. I want but i cant have.

 

Alternatives for someone who has never used a clonewheel only organs in synths and presently only from my privia.

 

Reface YC as mentioned above

 

Roland VR09 lightweight & small except shamefully longer for no real reason but doable and good sounds cant afford new but could do used if i could find one

 

Casio xw-p1 i actually dont mind this as an alternative and would jump on one of these to start me off in drawbars as presently new its affordable. Its lightweight but unfortunately i think its too deep for my stand which i cant access to measure as its at the band room presently although i just ordered a second one to be the gigging stand but here in weeks due to covid lockdowns. I think id be fine with the organ sounds available as Im coming from never having a clonewheel.

 

Numa Compact 2x lightweight for its size. It would even fit my top tier for depth but two 88keys might be pushing it on the stand. Have considered replacing the Privia with the NC2x but I am a piano player and would I like the semi weighted although i used to gig with semi weighted before the luxury of privias (i was an early adopter)

 

Finally ive also considered a ferrofish module which i do see every now and then appear used and easy to buy form interstate

 

Older heavy clonewheels are out of the weight question.

 

Cheers

[AnotherScott]

I don't know what these cost where you are (or what their availability used is like), but other llightweight possibly moderate-cost boards with 9-drawbar control include Vox Continental and Casio MZ-X500.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

I don't know what these cost where you are (or what their availability used is like), but other llightweight possibly moderate-cost boards with 9-drawbar control include Vox Continental and Casio MZ-X500.

 

Yeah thanks Scott

 

The Continental interested me too but probaly put it aside early on as it had no pitch wheel. I could possible use privia pitch wheel via midi when not playing privia. Unfortunately finding a used current one here would still be expensive. But its definately a contender in all other aspects

 

The Continental initially excited me because as a new gigging player in the late 70s early 80s my first non piano top tier addition was a Vox Jaguar i sat on my yammy CP30. (For the New Zealanders some trivia i bought it off The New Zealand band "Toy Love" when they left after their Aussie tour) hence a bit of nostalgia with this board

 

The casio is a thought too but again a problem with casio keyboard is the depth is too deep for my top tier. Though i will know better when my second stand arrives. The other casio i mentioned grabbed me as a very doable for me board except the depth

 

My price limitation presently would be under aussie1000 bux and as much under as i could get.

 

Once the lockdown ends here if i havent found an affordable to me board i am going to put some gumtree adverts up and see if i can get any swapping / part exchange deals happening for any of my vintage gear. If I sell something generally that goes to keeping us going during this lockdown thus saving the house.

[niacin]

The Korg Vox Continental does have a pitchbend lever, the LED strips aren't great for accurately changing drawbar settings, I like mine but use it mostly for synth and electric pianos, and second hand it's probably beyond your budget.

 

Suggest you look out for a used Hammond XK-1 or Roland VR-09.

 

Regarding gigs, I'm in Canberra and I reckon for every 2 venues that used to have live music pre-covid there's now 3, with bars trying to get punters to choose them over the competition, and ticketed shows, often with 2 sittings, allowing venues to better estimate staff etc. Still no dancing, but that gives live music and certain genres like blues or soul an advantage over DJs and top 40 dance bands which works for me.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

The Korg Vox Continental does have a pitchbend lever, the LED strips aren't great for accurately changing drawbar settings, I like mine but use it mostly for synth and electric pianos, and second hand it's probably beyond your budget.

 

Suggest you look out for a used Hammond XK-1 or Roland VR-09.

 

Regarding gigs, I'm in Canberra and I reckon for every 2 venues that used to have live music pre-covid there's now 3, with bars trying to get punters to choose them over the competition, and ticketed shows, often with 2 sittings, allowing venues to better estimate staff etc. Still no dancing, but that gives live music and certain genres like blues or soul an advantage over DJs and top 40 dance bands which works for me.

 

Thanks mate. Yeah if im going to get a drawbar id prefer drawbars that are closer to acting like the real thing. I figure a conti will be expensive in aussie in used condition. When i lived in Sydney there was so much more choice theres less here.

 

Ill google the hammond now. I've avoided others like it as i assumed they would be heavy.

 

Re the gigs. I remember years ago Canberra seemed to be good for bands when i used to stop at gigs when visiting. One band guy told me even then the venues were clammering for bands.

 

Re dancing ill be glad if dancers disaperead . When i joined this band it was 50s rock and roll band. I found that meant only dance music for the dance crowd not other 50s songs. I hated it without all types of song. When the guitarist left who ran the band i shifted it to up to 60s 70s 80 and 90s music. The other guys are all blues oreintated so im cool with that hence why i had to up the organ playing as im mostly a 80s player. Ive been enjoying increasing my organ chops but the bloody Privia does bruise my palmand fingers when doing swipes. Anyway No dancing will be a joy to me. Hee hee

[EscapeRocks]

I've had my YC61 on 3 gigs now, and it's still great.

[niacin]

So I had time this afternoon to re-programme MIDI CC#s to run my HX3 (latest version) from the YC61. The Yamaha+Vent2 was good, but this is a whole other level. The HX3 is about the same size as the Vent (I've packed it into the same small carry case), I mix it's outputs back in to the line inputs on the Yamaha for a single send to the desk, and I don't have to remember to switch the bypass button on the Vent when I pull up other sounds on the YC61. Very much looking forward to gigging with it next month.

[AnotherScott]

So I had time this afternoon to re-programme MIDI CC#s to run my HX3 (latest version) from the YC61. The Yamaha+Vent2 was good, but this is a whole other level. The HX3 is about the same size as the Vent (I've packed it into the same small carry case), I mix it's outputs back in to the line inputs on the Yamaha for a single send to the desk, and I don't have to remember to switch the bypass button on the Vent when I pull up other sounds on the YC61.

This approach seems like a great way to address the lack of panning/dual-mono output functionality on the YC61. While the board indeed lacks that function, the fact that it has good built-in MIDI functionality and line inputs means it can basically still accomplish the same kinds of things, albeit at a price. (Buying an HX3 might seem especially extravagant to the player who simply wishes he could use a Vent he already owns!) Bonus... your other sounds can still be played in stereo.

 

Similarly, then, for people who like to pan their left hand bass to its own output, you could conceivably grab your bass sound from, say, an iPhone which you might already own.

 

This should work on a Dexibell J7 Combo as well, which has similar MIDI zoning/switching functions and audio inputs. It could also be viable on a Numa Compact 2X, which only lacks the audio line inputs which might mean you'd still need a mixer, though possibly not if the device you're connecting sends audio over USB.

 

This solution would not work as well on some other boards that have similar panning/routing limitations because, for example, the Vox Continental and Roland VR-09/VR-730 are not so adept at switching between and/or splitting internal and external sounds.

[counterpoint]

So I had time this afternoon to re-programme MIDI CC#s to run my HX3 (latest version) from the YC61. The Yamaha+Vent2 was good, but this is a whole other level. The HX3 is about the same size as the Vent (I've packed it into the same small carry case), I mix it's outputs back in to the line inputs on the Yamaha for a single send to the desk, and I don't have to remember to switch the bypass button on the Vent when I pull up other sounds on the YC61. Very much looking forward to gigging with it next month.

 

Niacin...how did you get the Chorus/Vibrato and Percussion sections from the YC to control the HX3 when they only send out sys ex commands?

[AnotherScott]

Niacin, giving this some more thought, am I correct in assuming you're using the YC61 drawbars to control HX3?

 

I recently actually experiemented with doing the same kind of thing on a Dexibell J7 with B3X running on an iPad... it wasn't specifically to get around the "can't pan sounds to easily put a Vent on it" issue which was not on my mind when I did this, but rather to see how the motorized drawbars would integrate with B3X. It worked pretty well! But there were issues I had to think about how to address, and I wonder if you ran into the same issues and similarly found ways to address them on the YC61. Specifically, when you call up a stored user preset (Live Set) which includes an HX3 organ sound, do the LED indicators next to the YC61 drawbars accurately indicate the positions of the drawbars of the HX3 sound you've called up? This should be do-able... one way, at least, would be that you could program (into that Live Set) the identical drawbar registration into the YC61's own organ engine as is being called up on the HX3 (via your zone-specific MIDI Program Change), and then the settings should be in sync... but you also have to be sure that the YC61 organ sound itself does not play, which I guess you could do by programming in a volume level of zero for the YC61's organ section...?

[niacin]

dubble post, stupid interwebs

[niacin]

I already owned the HX3 and had had it recently updated. It sounds like the fire breathing electro-mechanical monster that a real Hammond is. Next level. The overdrive and Leslie are as good as the Vent, imho.

 

The Yamaha will only send regular CC#s on the knobs. So for percussion or vibrato/chorus you have to pick a knob (anything you're not likely to be using for the internal sound/s) to assign it to. Perhaps Carsten will create a MIDI template for the YC61 so that you can use the buttons as he did for the SK1, but until then I'd just assign a knob/wheel to percussion 2 volume, another to percussion 3 volume, and another to percussion 2/3 decay. I assigned organ reverb to control the overall reverb in the HX3.

 

The HX3 drawbar settings are reflected by the LEDs: set up a preset on the YC61 with the organ section turned on and the organ section volume set to zero so the internal organ sounds aren't heard. When you switch to that preset the YC61 sends the saved drawbar setting over MIDI, indicated by the LEDs, to the HX3. Voila. What you said.

[konaboy]

 

My loaner showed up yesterday. Only unboxed it so far.

Extermaly high quality premium feel about it, chassis, knobs, switches, drawbars. Looks very handsome.

Screen not as crisp as OLED, but hopefully won't be needing it much anyway.

Haven't played it yet, but tinkling on the keys suggests this is a really nice action. Smooth and quiet keys, not springy, nicely rounded corners so comfortable to play.

Gonna have to work on my organ chops to do this justice

[AnotherScott]

The Yamaha will only send regular CC#s on the knobs. So for percussion or vibrato/chorus you have to pick a knob (anything you're not likely to be using for the internal sound/s) to assign it to. Perhaps Carsten will create a MIDI template for the YC61 so that you can use the buttons as he did for the SK1, but until then I'd just assign a knob/wheel to percussion 2 volume, another to percussion 3 volume, and another to percussion 2/3 decay.

I saw where someone used the Keystage iOS app to remap VR09 sysex drawbars to MIDI CCs. It's probably not worth the effort, but if one were sufficiently motivated, that approach might be a way to map the rest of the YC61 controls to the desired parameters. (Or a MIDI SOlutions Event Processor.)

 

The HX3 drawbar settings are reflected by the LEDs: set up a preset on the YC61 with the organ section turned on and the organ section volume set to zero so the internal organ sounds aren't heard. When you switch to that preset the YC61 sends the saved drawbar setting over MIDI, indicated by the LEDs, to the HX3. Voila.

Perfect! That's how the Dexibell works too. When I set it up with B3X, I just picked a different organ preset on the board, the motorized drawbars snappedtto position AND sent their MIDI out to B3X, so they were instantly in sync.

 

YC61 and the Dexibell then have a nice advantage over most other boards for controlling external organ modules/VSTs, in having front panel indication of the current drawbar settings of your external organ sound source. Each has its own other advantages... Yamaha has the pitch/mod controls and more user preset locations, Dexibell has custom sample loading and high trigger. Though Yamaha is only available with 61 keys, and Dexibell only with 73.

 

The only other boards that I think could have similar benefit as an organ controller are the Nords that have drawbuttons and the other boards with ladder strips next to their faders, Kurzweil Forte and maybe Roland Fantom (Montage comes close, but for having only 8).

[niacin]

That's how the Dexibell works too. When I set it up with B3X, I just picked a different organ preset on the board, the motorized drawbars snappedtto position AND sent their MIDI out to B3X, so they were instantly in sync. YC61 and the Dexibell then have a nice advantage over most other boards for controlling external organ modules/VSTs, in having front panel indication of the current drawbar settings of your external organ sound source. Though Yamaha is only available with 61 keys, and Dexibell only with 73.

 

An SK1-73 taught me that for Hammond playing a board with anything other than C at the top messes with my head.

[AnotherScott]

Yeah, I REALLY prefer a top C. I put up with the rest only because 61 is limiting for other uses, and so few 7x key boards end on C. If Yamaha ever does come out with a YC73, I hope it's C-to-C like the Numa Organs, Korg Krome, Korg M50, Korg M3... I'm kind of surprised Korg messed it up on the Vox Continental, a more organ-centric board than those others.

[EscapeRocks]

 

My loaner showed up yesterday. Only unboxed it so far.

Extermaly high quality premium feel about it, chassis, knobs, switches, drawbars. Looks very handsome.

Screen not as crisp as OLED, but hopefully won't be needing it much anyway.

Haven't played it yet, but tinkling on the keys suggests this is a really nice action. Smooth and quiet keys, not springy, nicely rounded corners so comfortable to play.

Gonna have to work on my organ chops to do this justice

 

Very nice! The more I play mine, the more I am liking it. It is solidly built.

 

Drawbars and external modules:

 

I do the same as Niacin and Another Scott. Organ section on, volume set to 0. Adjust the sound organ with the Yamaha Drawbars, and save the preset. When I call for that patch, it sends the drawbar settings to the external (ikMultimedia B3X)

[counterpoint]

Drawbars and external modules:

 

I do the same as Niacin and Another Scott. Organ section on, volume set to 0. Adjust the sound organ with the Yamaha Drawbars, and save the preset. When I call for that patch, it sends the drawbar settings to the external (ikMultimedia B3X)

 

It's interesting that the YC seems to be being used more as a MIDI controller for another organ source than for its own internal organ sounds. The internal rotary sim remains a problem and Yamaha has yet to issue an OS update to address it.

[AnotherScott]

I do the same as Niacin and Another Scott. Organ section on, volume set to 0. Adjust the sound organ with the Yamaha Drawbars, and save the preset. When I call for that patch, it sends the drawbar settings to the external (ikMultimedia B3X)

 

It's interesting that the YC seems to be being used more as a MIDI controller for another organ source than for its own internal organ sounds. The internal rotary sim remains a problem and Yamaha has yet to issue an OS update to address it.

I haven't actually gotten my hands on a YC61, I was talking about doing the same kind of thing but on a different keyboard. I'm not sure I'd read too much into it... Niacin and EscapeRocks is a sample of two. ;-) Though yes, there has been a lot of criticism of the rotary effect... and the inability to send organ out of its own output does provide more motivation to just use an external organ sound rather than putting a Vent on the YC, if you really feel the need to address it.

[counterpoint]

I haven't actually gotten my hands on a YC61, I was talking about doing the same kind of thing but on a different keyboard. I'm not sure I'd read too much into it... Niacin and EscapeRocks is a sample of two. ;-) Though yes, there has been a lot of criticism of the rotary effect... and the inability to send organ out of its own output does provide more motivation to just use an external organ sound rather than putting a Vent on the YC, if you really feel the need to address it.

 

Grabbed the B3X on the Black Friday Sale and have mapped YC to control it...used Cantabile to translate Sys Ex to MIDI CC for Vibrato/chorus and percussion...so I guess it's a sample of three...which I agree does not reach statistical significance. It works great but it's all academic anyway right now as I'm just entertaining myself with possibilities and not realities.

 

Honestly, I think even if the YC had a much better rotary sim, there would and will be some who will still want to use different organ or rotary VST's in different situations...and the YC could be a great controller with a couple tweaks. I have written to Yamaha suggesting that that they assign CC Tx to the Vibrato/Chorus and Percussion switches. I also suggested that they put in a kill-dry so that you can run the YC unprocessed organ sound through a virtual rotary without the need for an outboard mixer/USB Audio device.

[EscapeRocks]

Drawbars and external modules:

 

I do the same as Niacin and Another Scott. Organ section on, volume set to 0. Adjust the sound organ with the Yamaha Drawbars, and save the preset. When I call for that patch, it sends the drawbar settings to the external (ikMultimedia B3X)

 

It's interesting that the YC seems to be being used more as a MIDI controller for another organ source than for its own internal organ sounds. The internal rotary sim remains a problem and Yamaha has yet to issue an OS update to address it.

 

I'm actually not using it that way on gigs. I just like to experiment.

 

I strictly use the YC for the organ sound I need on my shows. In my band setting, the rotary sim, with some tweaks, is fine.

[AnotherScott]

Sample of three it is! ;-)

 

[i have written to Yamaha suggesting that that they assign CC Tx to the Vibrato/Chorus and Percussion switches. I also suggested that they put in a kill-dry so that you can run the YC unprocessed organ sound through a virtual rotary without the need for an outboard mixer/USB Audio device.

 

Have you put your suggestions on Yamaha's ideascale site?

 

re: "a kill-dry so that you can run the YC unprocessed organ sound through a virtual rotary without the need for an outboard mixer/USB Audio device" -- Can you please clarify this for me?