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Kawai ES520 / ES920. Have you heard?


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Can't believe I'm the one breaking the news about this on this forum, it's been going on for awhile over at pianoworld.

 

Kawai ES520

Kawai ES920

Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus 

Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB

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Ya, those were announced about a month ago. Not shipping until sometime in October I believe.

 

I was considering an ES8 over the last year or so, but have been holding out as there were rumours it was going to be replaced.

 

The ES920 looks like a nice update, but for me it's all about the action. I find most digital pianos feel like you're playing under water. I want a nice fast action.

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Nice upgrade!

ES520

â  Authentic Responsive Hammer Compact II keyboard action

â  Matte key surfaces, triple sensor hammer detection

â  Progressive Harmonic Imaging sound engine with 88-key sampling

â  Shigeru Kawai SK-EX and Kawai EX grand piano sounds

â  Hardware developed in partnership w/Onkyo, 40W speaker system

â  Integrated Bluetooth® MIDI and Audio wireless technology

â  Standard MIDI, USB to Host/Device, Audio In/Out connectivity

â  Spatial Headphone Sound for enhanced depth and realism

â  Intuitive control panel layout with high quality OLED display

â  Modern, lightweight case with matching stand and triple pedal unit

14.5 kg (32 lbs.)

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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ES920

â  Highly-authentic Responsive Hammer III keyboard action

â  Ivory Touch key surfaces, triple sensor, let-off, counterweights

â  Harmonic Imaging XL sound engine with 88-key sampling

â  Shigeru Kawai SK-EX, SK-5, & Kawai EX grand piano sounds

â  Hardware developed in partnership w/Onkyo, 40W speaker system

â  Integrated Bluetooth® MIDI and Audio wireless technology

â  MP3/WAV playback, record, and overdub to USB memory

â  4-band EQ faders, Rhythm Section accompaniment with 100 styles

â  Spatial Headphone Sound for enhanced depth and realism

â  Modern, lightweight case with matching stand and triple pedal unit

17.0 kg (37 1/2 lbs.)

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Ya, those were announced about a month ago. Not shipping until sometime in October I believe.

 

I was considering an ES8 over the last year or so, but have been holding out as there were rumours it was going to be replaced.

 

The ES920 looks like a nice update, but for me it's all about the action. I find most digital pianos feel like you're playing under water. I want a nice fast action.

 

If checking out the ES8 or ES920 must check Yamaha P515 as well.

I"m having trouble finding a street price for these new models. Maybe we won"t know until shipping.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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ES520: $1,199, ES920: $1,599

Las Vegas Music

 

I've been kinda obsessed since the ES520 has been announced. I LOVE the action on my ES110, but as a bare bones model it didn't even have an aux input or USB connectivity. I made a wish list for the ES110, the idea being that they already had a wonderful action, so just add to that. They've included pretty much everything on my upgrade list AND they went with an upgraded action they had already developed for the KDP110 console. Of course the price went from $699 to $1,199, and it weighs more, 32 pounds compared to 26. Such is life! Besides being cheaper, the 520 is lighter than the 920, which has a different action.

 

ES110 >>>> ES520

> $699 >> $1,199

 

> 26 lbs >> 32 pounds

 

> RHC, 2 sensors >> RHC II, Responsive Hammer Compact II, 3 sensors, see below

 

> No >> Streaming BT audio from your smart device

 

> No >> USB to host device

 

> 14 watts >> 40 watts sound system

 

> 9' concert EX >> SK-EX and EX, the 110 pianos were variations of one piano, the 520 uses 2 different pianos

 

> No >> audio in on minijack

 

> 19 sounds >> 34 sounds

 

> None >> 128 x 64 pixel OLED

 

> No >> Spatial Headphone Sound, SHS

 

> No >> optional 3 pedal unit, GFP-3, does NOT require the furniture stand! Same one included with MP11SE

 

> Some Piano adjustment >> Shit ton of piano adjustment: see below from manual

 

> BT MIDI >> BT MIDI

 

> Foot pedal >> supports half-pedaling like the ES110 F-10H pedal, quality pedal, included

 

From PianoDreamers.com: PianoDreamers.com review of KDP110, which uses same action as ES520

 

While this is an entry-level piece, Kawai has tried to make the keyboard feel nearly as good as premium pianos, and the RHCII is not an entry-level action. For the price, it has an impressive feel overall and adds significantly to the quality of the instrument.

This action is a 3-sensor version of the ES110"s action, which itself was designed based on the RHIII but meant to be compact. The fact that it is 3-sensor improves its responsiveness, particularly when you are playing passages that require a lot of speed and a light touch. I"ve also noticed that the RHCII is less bouncy, quieter, and a little bit heavier compared to the RHC, which gives it a more substantial feel.

 

From ES520 Manual:

The Voicing setting recreates various hammer properties, allowing the overall tonal character of the ES520 digital

piano to be adjusted. There are six different preset voicing settings available (applied uniformly to all keys), with an

additional 'User' setting that allows players to perform custom adjustments on each individual key.

 

The Minimum Touch setting allows the minimum key velocity required to produce a sound to be adjusted. By

default, this setting attempts to recreate the extremely fine touch sensitivity of a concert grand piano, allowing

a very soft sound to be produced with the slightest of key touches. However, it may be desirable to reduce this

sensitivity, when wishing to recreate the feeling of a small grand piano or an upright piano.

 

The User Key Volume settings allows the volume of each of the 88-keys to be adjusted individually

 

The Half-Pedal Adjust setting allows the point at which the damper/sustain pedal becomes effective (i.e. when the

dampers of the piano begin to lift from the strings) to be adjusted. This setting may be useful for pianists that

habitually rest their right foot on the damper/sustain pedal, but do not necessarily wish to sustain the sound

 

The Lower Pedal setting determines whether or not the sustain pedal will affect (i.e. sustain) the lower sound when

using Split mode.

 

When using Dual mode, sometimes simply adjusting the volume balance between the two layered sounds is not

enough to create the desired sound character, especially if both sounds are very dynamic. Layering two equally

dynamic sounds can prove difficult to control and play comfortably.

The Layer Dynamics Function allows the dynamic sensitivity of the layered sound to be reduced, in order to improve

the blend between the two combined sounds. In addition to reducing the volume of the layered sound, limiting its

dynamic sensitivity also allows the layered sound to be controlled more easily in relation to the main sound.

Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus 

Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB

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Also worth noting from a portability aspect is that it's noticeably deeper (as is typical for boards with beefier sound systems). 11 2/3" --> 14 2/3".

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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AS,

Yes, as someone who likes to have their boards in close proximity (right?), a deep bottom board is problematic. And 14 2/3" is a full 3" deeper than the ES110. But if that is what it takes to get a big full sound, it works for me. It's one of the things that has me in a tizzy- bring the ES520 to a jam, to a family gathering, and you're ready for a rousing home concert or singalong, no pa needed. With the low ceilings of most houses, you'll be pushing a really big sound.

 

A bit of context for why I'm so excited about the ES520

Based on reviews by fellow KCers, JPC, and pianoworld, I bought the ES110. I had previously run a thread on what weighted board could come in under 30 pounds, cost less than $1,500, preferably less than $1,000, had great built-in speakers, great sounds, you know, my wish list. Turns out, if you want lightweight that narrows the field a lot, and keeping it kinda on the cheaper side obviously limits things. Long story short, I didn't get the impossibly affordable amalgamation of everything I'd asked for, I got the ES110.

 

The first thing that impressed me was how piano focused the Kawai was, the ES110 is for the pianist. Buy the Yamaha 125 if you're looking to engage the whole family, better speakers and more user friendly. But damn, the ES110 comes with that pedal, a real half-pedaling pedal, and playing it-

 

Wow is a good word, superlative, helpful, but I think 'pianistic' is the word that sums it up for me. I've had peak piano sessions with acoustic pianos that set the bar way high. To fly, to dip and dive, to command with an almost ferocious attack, to swoon and tell your hearts laments, to become the babbling brook- these are some of my best of my AP experiences. And weirdly, I always forget it until I play an instrument that allows or even beckons that kind of expression.

 

Which is why I fell for the ES110. And why I'm taking donations towards my inevitable purchase of an ES520!

Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus 

Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB

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as someone who likes to have their boards in close proximity (right?), a deep bottom board is problematic.

True, though if its bottom-tier gig use does not require keeping the speakers and OLED clear, that actually might be fine. But the other issue is that its 32 lbs, which is pushing the weight limit for me, can feel heavier depending on weight distribution and how you can get your hands and arms around it so it may feel a bit more cumbersome to move around with the added depth as well.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Which is why I fell for the ES110. And why I'm taking donations towards my inevitable purchase of an ES520!

 

I'm happy with my ES110 but I would of purchased a middle tier model (ES520) if one existed at the time. Come to think of it, the ES920, with it's lighter weight from the ES8 is giving me gas, but since I'm retired, money plays into my decision.

AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251

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The ES-110 is really nice to play for its price. Competes with the P125 and the FP-30. I feel action wise it's a bitter nicer than tham both. Lots of other threads on the usability of the sounds.

ES520 at $1199.99 is an interesting spot. First thing that comes to mind is the Casio PX-560. You've got to go to $1499.99 for Yamaha P-515 or Roland FP-60.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Just listened to the Soundcloud demos, and am very impressed. I have a Kawai K2 upright, but if we needed to condense into a much smaller space (which could be a reality in coming years) I wouldn't be dissapointed with either one of these. And in better times with lots more piano-focused gigs, the ES520 would definitely be on the radar.

 

Kawai is really getting good at this. Will have to play one of these when they arrive at Sweetwater or Piano Solutions.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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It looks like they beefed up the new models' onboard speakers (40 watts) from that of the ES8's 30 watts to compete with Yamaha's P515 more robust system.

 

I've been wanting an ES8 for quite some time, mainly for an action that is heavier than that of my ES110, which I enjoy playing but doesn't keep my fingers strong enough to play any acoustic grand. Curious to see how the new models compare action-wise, to the ES8.

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ES520 at $1199.99 is an interesting spot. First thing that comes to mind is the Casio PX-560. You've got to go to $1499.99 for Yamaha P-515 or Roland FP-60.

Also the RD88. which was $1199 until it's recent increase to $1299.

 

Compared to the Casio (or Roland), the Kawai has far fewer sounds, less split/layer capability, no pitch/mod wheels, etc. But between the piano sound, action, and speaker system, it could conceivably be the best ~30 lb portable piano, if that's what you're after.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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The only difference of the two from Specs is the action. The Hammer III action

is the added weight to the 920, I'm guessing mostly from the key weights.

Triton Extreme 76, Kawai ES3, GEM-RPX, HX3/Drawbar control, MSI Z97

MPower/4790K, Lynx Aurora 8/MADI/AES16e, OP-X PRO, Ptec, Komplete.

Ashley MX-206. future MOTU M64 RME Digiface Dante for Mon./net

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The only difference of the two from Specs is the action. The Hammer III action

is the added weight to the 920, I'm guessing mostly from the key weights.

Whether the hammer pieces are themselves literally heavier, I don't know, but the entire mechanism is different, and the RHIII does include counterweights which is certainly one thing that would add weight over a board that doesn't have them. I think the keys are physically bigger overall, too.

 

Is there a difference between Kawai's RHIII and Korg's RH3, other than branding? I've settled on RH3 as the best action (to my taste) of any DP I've played.

AFAIK, no similarity whatsoever apart from being hammer mechanisms from companies that begin with K. They just happened to choose virtually identical nomenclature.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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But the other issue is that its 32 lbs, which is pushing the weight limit for me, can feel heavier depending on weight distribution and how you can get your hands and arms around it so it may feel a bit more cumbersome to move around with the added depth as well.

 

Yeah, 32 pounds is pushing it, the ES110 at 26 pounds is sweet! Wasn't too sad to see my Nord Stage 88 go, moving 40 pounds around was too much. I'd go to 32 because this board is special.

Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus 

Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB

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But the other issue is that its 32 lbs, which is pushing the weight limit for me, can feel heavier depending on weight distribution and how you can get your hands and arms around it so it may feel a bit more cumbersome to move around with the added depth as well.

 

Yeah, 32 pounds is pushing it, the ES110 at 26 pounds is sweet! Wasn't too sad to see my Nord Stage 88 go, moving 40 pounds around was too much. I'd go to 32 because this board is special.

 

Coming from the Nord - I wonder what Kawai could pull off weight wise by sacking the speakers, amplifiers, and shaving the case a bit. I bet a speaker-less 520 based slab could come in under 30lbs.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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The Kawai website is showing the MSRP for the ES 520 as $1699 and the MSRP for the ES 920 as $2499

 

 

This,of course does not reflect what your favorite dealer will be actually selling these for....but should probably be used as the basic reference point.

----------------------------------------------------------

 

Gig: Yamaha MODX7, NumaX 73 Piano  Studio: Kawai ES-920; Hammond SK Pro 73; Yamaha Motif ES7 w/DX,VL,VH; Yamaha YC 73; Kawai MP-6; Numa Compact 2x

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Coming from the Nord - I wonder what Kawai could pull off weight wise by sacking the speakers, amplifiers, and shaving the case a bit. I bet a speaker-less 520 based slab could come in under 30lbs.

 

 

Well, the ES series for Kawai has typically targeted the "portable self contained pianist" market , while the MP series has focused on the "Stage Piano/Performance controller" market so hopefully Kawai will eventually announce an updated MP-series model with reduced weight, no internal speakers but with similarly upgraded blue-tooth connectivity & features. I know that I would love an updated but lighter version of my Kawai MP6. 30 lbs instead of 47.5 lbs would be a dream!

----------------------------------------------------------

 

Gig: Yamaha MODX7, NumaX 73 Piano  Studio: Kawai ES-920; Hammond SK Pro 73; Yamaha Motif ES7 w/DX,VL,VH; Yamaha YC 73; Kawai MP-6; Numa Compact 2x

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I'm not sure how due they are to refresh the MP11SE and MP7SE - they were released in 2017 with an OS update in 2019. But we shall see.

 

The MP11SE - 75lbs. There really isn't much they can do to get weight down far on this board, it offers players the GF action.

The MP7SE - 46lbs - this was pretty standard weight for lots of stage pianos with quality weighted actions prior to most recent history. The Yamaha CP4 came in at 38.5lbs. THe CP88 uses more metal than plastic and comes in at 41lbs. Casio PX-5S with their different approach to actions and a lot of plastic got it down to 24.47lbs.

 

Point being the ES110 (26.5lbs) and the ES520 (32lbs) use the RH type actions (II or III). It does make me wonder if they can do an MP7SE which also uses the RH action can drop some weight. And also, what would an ES without the speakers weigh?

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Here's the extra features the ES-920 has over the ES-520: (Not including the different action and additional SK-5 piano)

 

IMPROVED: Responsive Hammer III keyboard action with redesigned key switches

IMPROVED: Improved acoustic piano sounds and updated Virtual Technician parameters

IMPROVED: Enhanced Touch Curve setting with 10 selectable touch presets

NEW: Electric Piano, Drawbar and Jazz Organ, Electric Bass, Harpsichord, and Strings sounds

NEW: Updated control panel with 4-band EQ faders

Progressive Harmonic Imaging (PHI) (ES-520 has Harmonic Imaging)

 

No. of Sounds:

ES-920: 38

ES-520: 34

 

Internal Recorder:

Total Memory:

ES-920: approx. 90,000 notes

ES-520: approx. 5,000 notes

No. of Songs:

ES-920: 10

ES-520: 3

No. of Parts:

ES-920: 2 track recorder

ES-520:1 track recorder

 

Metronome Time Signatures:

ES-920:1/4, 2/4, 3/4, 5/4, 3/8, 6/8, 7/8, 9/8, 12/8

ES-520:1/4, 2/4, 3/4, 5/4, 3/8, 6/8

 

USB Audio Recorder: Record/Playback:

ES-920: SMF, WAV, MP3

ES-520: SMF

 

Rhythm Section:

ES-920: 100 styles - 2 variations, 4 part accompaniment select, 100 preset chord sequences

ES-520: 100 styles - 1 variation

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From Piano Dreamers review

 

'. I"ve also noticed that the RHCII is less bouncy, quieter, and a little bit heavier compared to the RHC, which gives it a more substantial feel.'

 

Heavier he says, that"s a red flag to me. Plus that extra 6 pounds is enough to break this camel"s sore back.

 Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."

 

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The RHIII in the ES8 and MP7SE is still the best action I've ever played. I hope if they've redone it that they haven't made it less nice.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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RHIII is heavier, less fluid. The ES110 is lighter, more fluid, less fatiguing.

 Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."

 

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RHIII is heavier, less fluid. The ES110 is lighter, more fluid, less fatiguing.

 

Generally speaking, I prefer it to feel more "piano-like" - grand, or baby grand sort of action. "Heavier" to me means the action is providing more "touch weight". But if the mechanism is smooth with little to no mechanical resistance, it can still be fluid. The speed that the key returns to position is also very important. When you lift your finger from the key it has to return for restrike right away (fluidly) without feeling like it's forcing your finger back up. Very tricky business. Point being, heavier doesn't necessarily mean less fluid and fatiguing can be caused by a number of factors. I find the RD-2000's action sluggish, causing fatigue when soloing or doing virtuosic stuff, but it feels pretty good for comping. The ES-110 on the other hand, does feel fast and more fluid - what you're referring to as "lighter, less fatiguing". On the other hand, the Yamaha CP88 feels very piano-like to me. The mechanism feels like it's swinging more weight, but it doesn't seem to take much more work to move it, and it swings so "fluidly" it also feels fast and I don't find it fatiguing. Point being, as we all know - you have to play it to know! So I withhold comment on the 520 or 920 until I can get my hands on one.

 

Here's a great article on...

 

The Effects of Lead Counter-Weights on Inertia in Grand Piano Keys

May 26, 2011

By Blake Cooper

http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/99598/file-16155936-jpg/images/grand-piano-keyweights.jpg

 

"A brief discussion of inertia in piano keys, and an example of its practical application Introduction:

As a piano technician, I often hear comments like the following: 'I like the way the piano sounds, but can you 'lighten" the action up a little?' This sounds like a simple question, but an action"s feeling of 'heaviness' can actually be caused by a number of different things. The first consideration is always to make sure the action parts are cleaned and well regulated. Normal service procedures are often enough to rid the action of unwanted sluggishness, and enable it to play with the responsiveness that it was designed to have. However, if the action is properly serviced, and it still feels 'heavy', solutions are more difficult to come by â at times they are all but impossible, without re-designing the action.

 

In certain circumstances though, some improvements can be made without replacing parts. These improvements require a basic understanding of the two individual elements of what we commonly refer to as 'touch-weight' â and how changing the parameters of one of these elements will necessarily alter the effect the other has on the way the action feels..."

 

link to rest of the article

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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