Swiss Army Knife Gigger's Synths - 2020

[Josh Paxton]

The Nord still seems to be the winner for ticking the most boxes. I really wish I didn't find their instruments to be so deal-breakingly uninspiring to play.

[ElmerJFudd]

The Nord still seems to be the winner for ticking the most boxes. I really wish I didn't find their instruments to be so deal-breakingly uninspiring to play.

 

I think most digital keyboards lack the vibe and feel of acoustic and electro mechanical instruments. On the digital facsimiles I do however appreciate the capabilities and conveniences - like seamless sound switching, one board that cover all sounds, quick recall from saved patches and registrations, built in FX, etc. etc. The big difference for me in the moment is always the action and how it"s been meticulously matched to the behavior of the patches. Right now, I"m hard pressed to compare almost any weighted action slab to the Yamaha CP88. I hear the Nord Grand is also excellent (Kawai"s action). Synth/Clone actions - I"m still so very impressed with my VR-700"s semi-weight waterfall and am disappointed at what passes for good enough - even on $2k, hell $3k+ keyboards in 2020, yes, even on the Nord Stage 3 Compact. At that price point, it really should play like no other.

[AnotherScott]

The Nord still seems to be the winner for ticking the most boxes. I really wish I didn't find their instruments to be so deal-breakingly uninspiring to play.

Ah yes, the intangibles! Do you think it's the key feel? The operational ergonomics/layout? The conceptual architecture? The color? ;-)

 

Inspirational to play is a tough criteria to add to the list. With piano most inspirational on a hammer action, and organ on two manuals, this is definitely going to be a point of significant compromise.

[niacin]

Are you speaking about this as a general requirement even if all the sounds are ultimately merged at the outs of the local board

Yeah, primarily. One do-it-all board, one controller. Avoids the need for a mixer and extra cabling. Although I'd like assignable outs as well (to add a Vent, dedicated bass amp, whatever) as well, I would probably rarely use that latter feature.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

this reminds me that one of the bonuses with the YC61 and some but not all of the other boards is stereo inputs. If I use a second board with sounds, not just as a controller, I need only 2 extra leads and I'm good. Or to take the scenarios mentioned: I'd use my HX3 controlled via MIDI from the YC61, audio back in to the YC61 inputs, no need for a Vent (and I get not just a great Leslie sim but a better Hammond); or for LH bass I'd use an Integra in the same way. Sure everyone's needs are slightly different, I was just thinking that if I came across this thread looking for a swiss army knife / kitchen sink keyboard I'd like to see the YC61 there for my consideration, but the OP's criteria eliminate it. YMMV

[niacin]

The Nord still seems to be the winner for ticking the most boxes. I really wish I didn't find their instruments to be so deal-breakingly uninspiring to play.

Ah yes, the intangibles! Do you think it's the key feel? The operational ergonomics/layout? The conceptual architecture? The color? ;-)

 

Inapirtional to play is a tough criteria to add to the list. With piano most inspirational on a hammer action, and organ on two manuals, this is definitely going to be a point of significant compromise.

 

The colour.

 

Kidding. It's the sound. The action is real close to my SK1. The interface and the architecture are great imo. On paper it looks perfect. I'd really like to like the Nords. A Stage Compact would cover everything I need. And I tried. Bought an Electro 5. It lasted 2 gigs. I'd pull a drawbar and find my self thinking wtf and go back searching for the sound I wanted. The Petrof Black Upright otoh is great even in mono. If you watch Mex's comparison Youtube videos the Nord pianos and Rhodes can be dialed in to match Yamaha or whatever you prefer. But I use more Wurli and clav and much more Hammond, and the Wurli is ok but doesn't compare to an SV2, it and the clav really need to be updated, and then there's the Hammond, and the sound doesn't make me happy, and it's that simple. Obviously it's a fantastic board for a lot of people. It's just not for me. I get on just fine with the SK1, YC61, Vox Continental, HX3, Gemini/Mojo. Just not the Nord. The other boards all just let me play, but the sound of the Nord gets in my way. I feel it's thick but not present, if that makes any sense (it may not).

[ElmerJFudd]

So it"s mainly the organ sound that is irksome to you. And probably at the root level which is the tonewheels themselves. To my ear it sounds like a decision to eq each register to be bright (bumped up in the 8-10k area, scooped/cut in the mids).

[niacin]

yes, you might be right about the EQ but I suspect it's more fundamental to the modelling. It just doesn't sound to me like a Hammond, either in the room or on a recording. The Wurli and clav haven't been updated since the original Electro came out and they're also less than inspiring. But obviously I'm in a minority as Nords are the most common keyboards I see on stages here.

 

Having owned an SV1 I totally get where Josh is coming from too.

[ElmerJFudd]

Off topic... because its not a do it all board, but I also found the XK3c inspiring to play. In the sound of the tonewheels and in the feeling of the action. The keys could be a little longer, but the feel of the keys and the behavior of the strings were quite good.

[AnotherScott]

this reminds me that one of the bonuses with the YC61 and some but not all of the other boards is stereo inputs. If I use a second board with sounds, not just as a controller, I need only 2 extra leads and I'm good. Or to take the scenarios mentioned: I'd use my HX3 controlled via MIDI from the YC61, audio back in to the YC61 inputs, no need for a Vent (and I get not just a great Leslie sim but a better Hammond); or for LH bass I'd use an Integra in the same way. Sure everyone's needs are slightly different, I was just thinking that if I came across this thread looking for a swiss army knife / kitchen sink keyboard I'd like to see the YC61 there for my consideration, but the OP's criteria eliminate it. YMMV

Yes, that's another good one that many may want to add to the list, audio in for an external audio source. Even if you're looking for a single do-it-all board and don't intend to use a second board, the ability to integrate a small module, an ipad, even just an iPhone, can add significant functionality, still without the sheleppage, double-tier stand, or increased stage footprint of a second board.

 

Some of the boards even permit audio over USB which can be more convenient than line inputs... but when I tried this on the Dexibell J7 and an iPad, it introduced too much latency, and sticking with the line in would be the way to go. I don't know if that phenomenon may extend to any other boards, or sources other than iOS devices.

 

the {Nord} clav really need to be updated

I'm not a big clav user, but one thing I'll say for the Nord clav is that I think it *plays* really well, because of its low release point. It makes it snappier then what I get on other boards. I don't think any of the other boards mentioned here do that. (I believe Mojo61 now does, though.)

 

and then there's the Hammond, and the sound doesn't make me happy...I get on just fine with the SK1, YC61, Vox Continental, HX3, Gemini/Mojo. Just not the Nord. The other boards all just let me play, but the sound of the Nord gets in my way.

Did you ever try Nord through a Vent? With a Vent, the sonic differences among the clones greatly diminishes. Though I understand some of the appeal of our mythical target board here is a plug-it-in-and-go functionality that doesn't require having to bother with a Vent.

 

Personally, of the ones you mentioned (though I haven't played YC61), I felt the Vox was the one that sounded furthest from the target. I don't dislike the CX3 engine, but I think I'd really miss the ability to tailor it the way you can in a Kronos (or a real 2nd-gen CX3).

[niacin]

Re adding a Vent to the Nord, no, I did have the original Vent some years back but as mentioned would rather go with an HX3. And if you say "swiss army knife" I'm really wanting one board to do it all. The problem I have with the Nord is the core tonewheel sound, not the Leslie. Jim Alfredson said he felt that VB3 sounded like a synthesist's idea of a Hammond, and I kinda get that feeling with the Nord, when I said thick rather than present I think it sounds lifeless, but obviously I'm in the minority as the C2 seems to sell as well as other 2-manual clonewheels.

[ElmerJFudd]

That is the crux of it. The Swiss Army knife will always have some compromise - one engine is better than the other. It does a great EP but the organ is fair, etc. or the action is fine for organ but crap for acoustic pianos. So the conversation drifts into what other things it might do that make up for this or that - like ample storage for serious, providing unique FX routing per layer, or an aux out, etc. I think the USB midi out audio back is a way to fill in the gaps, but I hope it doesn"t become a cop out for trying to build the board that doesn"t need an iPad or a laptop.

[AnotherScott]

And if you say "swiss army knife" I'm really wanting one board to do it all.

Yeah, I get that. And if you can get it all (to your satisfaction), great! But if not, you have to decide which compromise scenario to go with: add something (vent, module, iPad, whatever) to your almost-there board to shore up its weak spot(s), or pick the board that is as close as you can get to your ideal without any addition.

 

With no add-ons, I think only two boards potentially meet all the OP's criteria:

 

* Nord Stage 3 - though it just barely meets some of the criteria. Yes to the splits, but the only one where the split points are not totally flexible. User samples, but of all the boards with user samples, the only one that supports only a single velocity layer. Quick recall of setups, but only 5 patch select buttons (meaning best quick recall scenario is probably 25 setups available with two button presses, yielding none with single button presses). And Niacin can't abide the organ sounds and Josh finds it deal-breakingly uninspiring.

 

* PC4-7 - but nobody yet knows how its action will feel, and its organ is not first-rate. As has been said, first rate organ may not always be needed for the swiss army knife, but for people who are ruling out Nord for its organ sound, I doubt Kurz will satisfy. We also don't know when it will be shipping... but hey, lots of us don't know when we'll be gigging, either!

 

Coming closest of the rest is probably Korg Kronos, which I think has everything except the high trigger. At 31.5 lbs, it's also a bit chunky, esp. for a 61, but if that's passable, then there's only one element from the list that is clearly missing. ETA: unlike the others on the list which I have tried, I did not find the Kronos 61 action at all suitable for piano. But I also never tried doing anything like adjusting velocity response to try to address it (something I was successful at on the MODX7), so maybe it's possible...?

 

The Vox Continental is next at missing one and a half elements... "Aux output and/or panning" and user samples, which I count as a half because the OP put a question mark after it which I think means it may not be essential. But like the Nord, there are things on the list it does, but just barely. It's split function is extremely limited (e.g. you can't change the octave of your left sound), and while it's patch recall was improved from 16 to 64 in an update (a big and important difference making it much better at meeting the "Quick recall of setups for set lists" criteria), it's the only board without a display that gives you the name of the patch you've selected.

 

I think everything else is missing two or more.

 

If you're willing to add something, even just an iPad, that might change the rankings... but then also, one might want to look at other criteria that better suit adding an iPad. This is actually in the original criteria as "Functions well as a controller with iPad" but that's kind of nebulous and can mean different things, but the more of these you have, the better...

 

...the board having audio in, as discussed earlier

...being able to include Program Changes to send to the iPad directly from the board's patch select buttons

...having faders and other controls that send MIDI CC (though once you have the iPad in the rig, you could also conceivably do sysex to CC conversion there)

...having a place on the board to conveniently place the iPad, possibly even leaving it permanently attached

 

But an iPad could possibly address any of the criteria that may be inadequate on the original board, except for the feel of the action, the high trigger point, and the physical build.

[niacin]

If you're willing to add something, even just an iPad, that might change the rankings... but then also, one might want to look at other criteria that better suit adding an iPad. This is actually in the original criteria as "Functions well as a controller with iPad" but that's kind of nebulous and can mean different things, but the more of these you have, the better...

 

...the board having audio in, as discussed earlier

...being able to include Program Changes to send to the iPad directly from the board's patch select buttons

...having faders and other controls that send MIDI CC (though once you have the iPad in the rig, you could also conceivably do sysex to CC conversion there)

...having a place on the board to conveniently place the iPad, possibly even leaving it permanently attached

 

But an iPad could possibly address any of the criteria that may be inadequate on the original board, except for the feel of the action, the high trigger point, and the physical build.

.

 

Yes, and then you're looking for audio and midi over usb, which brings you back to the YC61 and the Numa Compact 2x. But I imagine it will become a more common feature in the next generation of keyboards.

[Baldwin Funster]

The swiss army plays synths? Wow, they are a peace loving bunch.

[ElmerJFudd]

If you're willing to add something, even just an iPad, that might change the rankings... but then also, one might want to look at other criteria that better suit adding an iPad. This is actually in the original criteria as "Functions well as a controller with iPad" but that's kind of nebulous and can mean different things, but the more of these you have, the better...

 

...the board having audio in, as discussed earlier

...being able to include Program Changes to send to the iPad directly from the board's patch select buttons

...having faders and other controls that send MIDI CC (though once you have the iPad in the rig, you could also conceivably do sysex to CC conversion there)

...having a place on the board to conveniently place the iPad, possibly even leaving it permanently attached

 

But an iPad could possibly address any of the criteria that may be inadequate on the original board, except for the feel of the action, the high trigger point, and the physical build.

.

 

Yes, and then you're looking for audio and midi over usb, which brings you back to the YC61 and the Numa Compact 2x. But I imagine it will become a more common feature in the next generation of keyboards.

 

Quality of these built in interfaces is questionable as well at the moment. I"m not convinced a synth developer is thinking about how they can raise street price or cut into profits by picking out the best components and drivers compared to what we can get ourselves in a product like Radial Keylargo or Focusrite Scarlett.

[AnotherScott]

But an iPad could possibly address any of the criteria that may be inadequate on the original board, except for the feel of the action, the high trigger point, and the physical build.

 

Yes, and then you're looking for audio and midi over usb, which brings you back to the YC61 and the Numa Compact 2x. But I imagine it will become a more common feature in the next generation of keyboards.

...and neither of those as a high trigger point. But audio via a line input works, too, and that opens up other models, including ones which do have high triggers.

[ElmerJFudd]

But an iPad could possibly address any of the criteria that may be inadequate on the original board, except for the feel of the action, the high trigger point, and the physical build.

 

Yes, and then you're looking for audio and midi over usb, which brings you back to the YC61 and the Numa Compact 2x. But I imagine it will become a more common feature in the next generation of keyboards.

...and neither of those as a high trigger point. But audio via a line input works, too, and that opens up other models, including ones which do have high triggers.

 

USB midi to iPad or MacBook and analog audio back. Are these jacks typically a stereo pair of 1/4' patch cables?

[AnotherScott]

USB midi to iPad or MacBook and analog audio back. Are these jacks typically a stereo pair of 1/4' patch cables?

Some boards use a pair of 1/4" jacks for the line in, some use a stereo 1/8". (PC4 has both.)

[ElmerJFudd]

I"m crossing my fingers for the Medeli synth action to be decent. Then, plotting a way to try one out anywhere within a few hours of me.

[Al Quinn]

I had a Stage 2 HA88 for about three years and was able to cover any gig with it. From the audience perspective I"m sure it was very good but for me it was distracting in a few ways and I eventually sold it.

 

More specifically, although the APs sounded great I was never comfortable with the finger to ear connection. I could never warm up to the action. I played the B3 with the internal sim off through my Leslie 145 and it didn"t sound anything like my A100. When I played the Mojo through the 145 it was hard to hear the difference between it and the A100.

 

In think the rub with the quest for the all-one is that we"re being asked to add compromise on top of compromise since it"s the emulation of vintage keyboards - AP, EP, B3, Clav â that"s the first compromise. Then can we compromise again by having sub par vintage keys. And, on top of that, we want one action that"s great across these requirements. It"s a very difficult ask.

 

The compromise I"m thinking I would pick is sub par B3 since the HX3 expander module or iPad with B-3X are relatively painless complications that sound great. Going down this route I would need stereo audio in (for HX3) and/or USB midi/audio (for iPad/BX-3).

 

Then there"s the action. I feel optimistic about the YC61 action based on forum feedback and my experience with other Yamaha actions. I"ve learned that I generally get along well with Yamaha actions and have a rough time with Fatar actions.

[counterpoint]

Quality of these built in interfaces is questionable as well at the moment. I"m not convinced a synth developer is thinking about how they can raise street price or cut into profits by picking out the best components and drivers compared to what we can get ourselves in a product like Radial Keylargo or Focusrite Scarlett.

 

Not an expert, but the sound quality of the Steinberg interface in the YC61 playing soft synths sounds fine...at least in a live setting context. My concerns are more about the functional limitations as compared to an "outboard" interface. Let's say you want to run the organ from the YC through a virtual rotary sim. With any outboard interface I know, you could/would kill the source signal and only take the processed signal back from your computer/iPad. On the Steinberg interface for the YC61 there's no way to kill the source signal from going through to the outputs so you get an uncontrollable blend the clean organ and the signal processed by your computer/iPad through the outputs. I've sent a note to Yamaha asking if there is any way to add control as to whether a source signal goes to the USB output, analog outputs, or both through an OS update. Also, the Steinberg interface is very selfish...it does not function properly if you have any other USB devices plugged into your computer at least (using a Surface Pro w/Windows 10). Couple of other minor issue beyond these...but the trend of adding these into keyboards is a great thing IMO. Definitely would be near the the top of my "Swiss Army Knife" list.

[cphollis]

I have been using my NS3C as my swiss army do-it-all board across 3-4 bands with wildly divergent set lists, and I continue to be quite happy with it. Heck, I'm still learning new tricks, thanks to Youtube.

 

Maybe it's not the "best" at any one thing, with the potential exception of getting me through a gig/rehearsal with a minimum of fuss and a healthy dose of sonic impact. I find the native action fine for organ and some synth work, as I'm not being asked to shred on the synth. I use a weighted controller beneath for APs, EPs and the like as I do play a lot of piano.

 

Things I like? Song mode for continually rearranging hundreds of songs and patches into tonight's set list. No real need for outboard processing (e.g. my Vent stays home) and very often I don't even need an external mixer. The ability to quickly find and load free patches and samples for whatever craziness is being called for. Real-time tweaking, and no menu diving. Run it through decent amplification, and it'll fool 99% of the people 99% of the time that you're playing a real piano, organ, clav, etc. Sounds great in the studio as well.

 

I'd call it fun to play, and on occasion even "inspiring". But certainly not as inspiring as sitting down at a real grand piano, rhodes, wurli, B3, deep synth, etc. I think there are good reasons why you see a lot of them out there -- they can handle just about anything on a live set list, and do so with a minimum of effort. The going price for a new one on Reverb has fallen to about $3K, which I consider good value for money., especially considering the strong resale value.

[ElmerJFudd]

Quality of these built in interfaces is questionable as well at the moment. I"m not convinced a synth developer is thinking about how they can raise street price or cut into profits by picking out the best components and drivers compared to what we can get ourselves in a product like Radial Keylargo or Focusrite Scarlett.

 

Not an expert, but the sound quality of the Steinberg interface in the YC61 playing soft synths sounds fine...at least in a live setting context. My concerns are more about the functional limitations as compared to an "outboard" interface. Let's say you want to run the organ from the YC through a virtual rotary sim. With any outboard interface I know, you could/would kill the source signal and only take the processed signal back from your computer/iPad. On the Steinberg interface for the YC61 there's no way to kill the source signal from going through to the outputs so you get an uncontrollable blend the clean organ and the signal processed by your computer/iPad through the outputs. I've sent a note to Yamaha asking if there is any way to add control as to whether a source signal goes to the USB output, analog outputs, or both through an OS update. Also, the Steinberg interface is very selfish...it does not function properly if you have any other USB devices plugged into your computer at least (using a Surface Pro w/Windows 10). Couple of other minor issue beyond these...but the trend of adding these into keyboards is a great thing IMO. Definitely would be near the the top of my "Swiss Army Knife" list.

 

I"m sure on many of the boards the audio quality is fine. The cost of decent performing chip sets must be very low at the moment with acceptable stand alone interfaces as low as $100 and change. But as you suggest, the jacks are limited to class compliant usb to/from device and out your keyboard"s stereo outs. And they apparently don"t all deliver low enough latency from the iPad or MacBook for the picky player.

[stoken6]

The Nord still seems to be the winner for ticking the most boxes. I really wish I didn't find their instruments to be so deal-breakingly uninspiring to play.

I sympathise - and I speak as a long-time Nord owner and supporter. I've managed to make the Nord APs work for me (stereo monitoring in IEMs seems to be the secret - they sound good out front every which way), and the later EPs are adequate for my need. Clav is a disappointment. I'm not a sufficiently advanced organist to be able to categorically blame the tool, not the workman. And the samples are limiting (although they've impressed my bandmates).

 

The thing is, it does SO MUCH "adequately", at only 22lb, that there's very little competition. I'm now old enough that weight matters (I gigged an Ensoniq KS32 back in the day). I bought my NS2 8 years ago, and its been on every single gig with me - different downstairs boards (if any), different amps, pedalboards. I've done pubs, weddings, festivals, corporates, and it's always been the heart of the rig.

 

if I had to start building my rig again last year, I might have taken the plunge for a Forte 7 + unweighted controller. This year, the PC4-7 looks interesting. Kurzweil get it. Yamaha are close with the YC61 - high trigger and pannable outputs would be very nice.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[chrisfp99]

For me it's a no brainer.

 

I admire the dedication of you guys but I've been gigging for 45 years and have never taken more than one board, or had more than 61 keys. With my main band I'm still gigging with my beloved Korg N364. I've had 6 other boards but 5 have gone back, including a Kronos (too complicated and too heavy). I also work with 3 other bands and as the Korg is basically full (but beautifully set up for my needs) I got a Roland FA06. Yes the action is horrible. But more than that the basic sounds (piano, EP, organ, strings) aren't great. For one of the other bands I need a lot of synth and the Roland does a pretty good job for that.

 

Couple of years ago I also joined a blues band and treated myself to my first 88 - a Kurzweil SP6. Only 256 sounds but I loaded the PC3 sound set. It'll do splits and layers and has 1024 multis. I always stay in multi/combi/performance mode and just program all the sounds of all the songs I need in there. Then for each song I punch in the multi number and change sounds via footswitch. That's why I wouldn't consider a board with no numeric keypad (Nord, Yamaha). Pianos are great and I'm happy with the organ sounds I've got (check out Boston Screamer) and wouldn't ever bother with external gear (have seen the Vent mentioned many times but don't really know what it is).

 

My main consideration at my age is weight. Not interested in anything I'm going to struggle to transport. I've considered the PC4 but there's a lot in there I wouldn't use (although smooth sound transition would be great as the SP6 is a little sluggish on patch change). Have been checking the Kurz website periodically in the unexpected hope of a 76. And lo and behold now we have one. I mean who uses the top or bottom few notes anyway? This is so much looking like my perfect keyboard that I'm not sure what I will do with myself without the eternal search to occupy me. The action would have to be pretty awful to put me off. I may sound a bit of a cynic (and I wouldn't argue with that) but I do pretty well in diverse bands and I agree with an earlier comment - the audience don't care what the keyboard action's like or whether the keys trigger high or low etc. I just want one board, light, capable of splits and easy to get to the sounds I want. This is it. Probably a long wait before it arrives in the UK but I'm in no hurry. And I'll pay whatever the price. Just my two cents.

[ElmerJFudd]

As always it really depends on the gig. I developed the very picky criteria based on best experience whether mainly an organ player, piano or synth player. Also widest range of styles and timbres we usually get asked to cover. For me, happiest at the acoustic piano - I"d always choose an instrument that gives me as close to that feeling as possible. But that"s not going to be a lightweight board. So, when compromising a really good semi-weight action helps with timing - for me. For the organ centric guy, having the trigger high is also a feel thing related to timing especially if a very percussive player. And real draw bars vs. buttons or strips, the latter is not a desirable compromise. The synth guy always appreciates after touch, pitch and mod, etc. Being able to recall a nights worth of setups with ample splits and layers, not an overly zealous request. The aux out is advantageous for send to another mixable channel on mixer or to alternate fx or amping (a compromise would be being able to pan L/R). Function as a controller just being current for those that MainStage or supplement with iPad.

[AnotherScott]

Every attribute there is worthwhile, but not all players need all attributes. If someone is piano-centric, maybe the drawbars and high trigger aren't essential. Heck, I love playing organ, and I've done tons of TWO board gigs where I didn't have those things (typically a Yamaha something over a Casio something). Personally, for my synth work, I'd get more use out of aftertouch than pitch and mod wheels, but that's also something I often have not had even in 2-board rigs. So I'm used to significant compromising even with two boards!

 

But yeah, I get the appeal of seeing how close you can get out of one. And personally, for a single board, I'd really prefer more than 61 keys. So here's how I'd rank your list...

 

...The PC4 looks like it would be my pick in a 7x, for maximum flexibility and doing the most number of things at least reasonably well.

 

...Nord Stage 3 has some operational and arguably sonic advantages over the PC4, the immediacy is nice, but it's ultimately a lot more limited (and of course a lot pricier). But ask again after we see what the PC4-7 action feels like. I think I'd really want to supplement the NS3 with an iPad for patch selection and access to some additional sounds. The newer NS3 supports the music stand that would give you a convenient place to put one.

 

...I have to admit I really like the Dexibell J7's motorized drawbars and their newer downloadable piano and EP sounds, so it could tempt me. It's a little light on total sound selection, but the bread and butter stuff is there and you can load soundfonts for anything crucial it may be missing. MIDI implementation is good, too, as is its ability to mix and match sounds on the fly. But in a single board scenario, I could see people getting bitten by the limited synth functionality, the inability to separately route sounds, or having only 36 custom patches resident at a time.

 

...The VR730 still has a few too many gotcha's for me, but I could see re-evaluating in light of the enhancements available with the CTRLR editor.

 

Being able to recall a nights worth of setups with ample splits and layers, not an overly zealous request.

There are two ways of working, and sometimes that could lead you to a different board. Getting back to something I talked about earlier, some people set up a whole bunch of song-specific splits and layers in advance, other people largely grab their sounds on the fly. (And some rarely use splits, but we'll leave them out for now, because then none of the splitting functions are very important.)

 

If you set up all your song-specific patches in advance, then you want lots of saved locations and an easy/fast way to get to them. If you mostly grab sounds on the fly, and are used to two boards where you pick the sound for each board as you need it, and are trying to duplicate that way of working on a single board, then you need a board that lets you create a split such that you can easily change the sound on either side of the split on the fly, as well as adjust its volume and octave, and you need quick access to the sounds you'll want to be choosing from for each side of the split. So your way of working can also influence which boards are preferable.

 

For example, Kronos is strong in the first scenario, not as strong at the second. Dexibell is strong in the second scenario, not as strong in the first. I think PC4 may actually be kind of in the middle, not as good as either at what they are strongest at, but not as weak as either at what they are weaker at, so maybe a better choice in this respect for people who use a combination of both ways of working.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

In my regular weekly thing at church, since we started streaming (and limited congregation present), we have cut back from 3 praise songs and hymn before pastor speaks, plus hymn afterward to just 2 praise songs before, sometimes hymn after. I haven't even carried the extra iPad recently for more sounds, just use the PC2 and PC3. I did discover when I had to remove everything for several weeks while a new flooring was put in that I'm no longer really able to load either keyboard in the hard case and then move the hard case any distance (I'm 79).

During the weeks that we weren't inside the sanctuary fully, I used the iRig Keys 37 Pro into the iPad once, my Autoharp & chorus pedal into a small amp once, and two different harmonicas once. First couple of times, we were in the inside space at the office end of the church, last was outside when the whole building was being thoroughly disinfected, and everything was acoustic. (would have used autoharp but one of the songs was in a key that the autoharp wouldn't handle).

 

Not even thinking of any new gear now, can't really use all the stuff I already have effectively (and lots of it is too big, heavy, and bulky to try to sell outside the local area, and not enough interest locally, it's all paid for so I'd rather keep it unless I find someone with a real need to give or sell for low money.

 

There is always some way that works, sometimes easier and better than others, but the gig can be done if one has a mind to it.

[Tom Williams]

(have seen the Vent mentioned many times but don't really know what it is).

"vent", verb: to complain with exaggerated emotion, referring to older clonewheel organists whining about our inability to afford (or maybe lift) a real Leslie speaker.

[AnotherScott]

I was able to spend a few minutes on a VR09 with the CTRLR editor today. The good news: You can pan sounds to different outputs (if you avoid stereo effects), and save those assignments to Registrations you can invoke when not connected to the computer. The bad news: it does not work with the organ engine. Even with rotary disabled, organ comes out both sides regardless of panning settings. So the VR09/VR730 is potentially usable if you need a dual mono LH bass split, but not if you need a dual mono organ-to-vent split.