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I did a thing. New Yammy YC61


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But for fast leslie suckage, I don't think anything competes with Dexibell for worst in class. Maybe they've fixed that, but every example I've heard was just horrible. You'd think if they could fix that, they would.
Yes, they did fix that, in OS version 4.07 which I think was end of 2018. It's definitely better. Still not a Vent calibre emulation, but to me, moved it from unusable to usable.

 

haven't heard the YC61 through a Vent yet. I'm very tempted to try one - I can always return it if it doesn't offer significant improvements...

I would expect it to offer significant improvement... But I find it really awkward to use a rotary pedal on a keyboard that doesn't let you send organ out its own output. I thought the YC61 could do that with its panning trick, but now that I've learned that those settings are not savable, it doesn't really work. So, yes, you can put a Vent on your YC, but if you split or layer organ with another sound, you won't be able to put Vent on organ without putting it on your other sound. And even if you play just one sound at a time, I find it's awfully easy to forget to hit the bypass button when you switch from organ to brass or whatever, and suddenly you have the sound of brass going through a Leslie. (Especially in a multi-board rig, where you may switch to a board that you haven't been playing in the last couple of minutes.) I went through this with my old Korg G4 rotary pedal, and decided to never again use a rotary pedal on a board where I couldn't set up the organ with its own dedicated output.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Hey Scott, just want to say a big thanks for taking the time to post this, it's the sort of information that makes this forum invaluable, really appreciate it. :wave:

 

Apparently there"s also a TP-9 that floats about - I think Kurzweil used it in at least one version of the PC line. I"m not sure what"s different about it from the TP-8 or TP-8O that it gets a different number.

 

Fatar says, ' Keyboard for Economic and Compact Digital Piano. The keyboard is available in various configurations: 61, 76 & 88 weighted keys, dynamic bubble contacts. Monophonic aftertouch.' as description for both TP8 and 9. Does one have longer keys?

 

TP9 in its Synth version was used in the Kurzweil PC361, PC3A6, PC3K6. And tons of other boards, including ones from companies like Moog, Dave Smith, Novation, Access, Alesis, Nord, Ensoniq, Korg. and others... see niacin's link

 

Having played the PC361 and the Kronos 61 next to each other, I thought the keys felt quite similar except for the throw distance... and Korg's is considered one of the better synth actions. So I think TP9 is a really nice synth action (and is also what I had in mind when I initially said "I think Fatar is a perfectly good source for synth boards")... but it's really poor for piano.

 

They make a TP9 Piano version, that's used in the Numa Compact series, and it is indeed better for piano than the version on the PC361 (not *great* by any means, but definitely more playable). An obvious difference is the shape (piano lipped keys instead of diving board keys), and I think it's more tightly sprung. Whether there are any other differences, I don't know.

 

TP8 series feels quite different from TP9, more even in the keys' response from front to back. And in its non-organ version (i.e. the version used in various other Kurzweil models), the keys are longer. The white keys on the TP8/P Artis 7 are almost 6 inches, whereas the white keys on the ubiquitous TP8/O are just a bit over 5. While I didn't like the TP8/P's default high tension springs (I'm assuming Kurzweil used Fatar's default), once I replaced them with lighter ones, I found it to be quite a bit better than the TP9/P action in the Numa Compact 2.

 

So my summary:

TP9/S = good synth action, but poor if you need dual use for piano --- see PC361, Novation SL MkII, and a whole slew of others (though as discussed below, there could also be differences in weight that I have not experienced)

TP9/P = with lighter than stock springs, one of the best semi-weighted actions, good for organ (albeit not waterfall shaped) and also good for piano (as SW actions go) --- see Artis 7

TP8/O = varies with implementation. People say the version in the Mojo is among the best organ actions you can get, but I'm guessing it drives a piano module poorly. Whatever Nord has done to adjust velocity curves or whatever, it seems to play piano better on newer Nords than older ones, but the action feels a bit on the stiff side for organ.

TP8/P = decent but not outstanding all-in-one action (see Numa Compact series... I suspect this could be better with some more effort put into velocity curves, since it "feels" like it should be responding better than it does)

 

(Caveat: These are my recollections/impressions, but I did not always have the opportunity to play these side by side, and memories can sometimes be misleading!)

 

But the Fatar info here: http://www.fatar.com/Pages/TP_9S.htm says it's available in weighted and unweighted versions, so different springs.

Fatar is talking literally there. It is available with or without a weight. which you can see illustrated in their diagrams, it is placed at the end of the key closest to the player (in the case of the page you linked to, it's the dark filled in area under the diving board part). There is not necessarily any difference in springs, though I suppose there could be.

 

There is no hammer action version of a TP9, which is what most of us typically think of when we hear the term "weighted." Strictly speaking, any key with any weight is weighted. There is no such thing as a semi-weight. It has just become common usage that a keyboard that has some weight but not a full hammer mechanism is referred to as a semi-weighted keyboard... I suppose because the early hammer action keyboards were typically called weighted, so "semi weighted" became a way to say "we've put some weight in it, but it's not the same as what you think of as a weighted keyboard, it's kinda part way there."

 

Scott, which Stage 3 model do you have?

The Compact. I don't think there's any spring to change in the others.

Gig keys: Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Crumar Mojo 61, Crumar Mojo Pedals

 

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Question: Does the YC61 have an easy way to instantly have your organ sound reflect the current position of the physical drawbars?

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Wellllll..

 

Just got back from an epic show this past Saturday night at a marina. Beautiful indoor/outdoor venue.... meaning the entire place is covered, but no walls/doors.

Right on the lake.

 

Sound reinforcement is hanging RCF HDL-6A line arrays: 4 left and 4 right, and a pair of RCF Subs. There was no issue being heard :)

 

My setup for the night: YC61 over PX5S; 2018 Mac Mini, iPad 7 as monitor and to make my Mini a touchscreen interface.

Audio i/o was handled by the YC61. YC61 is run in Local Off mode.

 

Gig Performer controlled everything as far as patch changes and hosting my VSTs; for this show I used Arturia Jupv ProV OBXa, Keyscape (for electric pianos) and PianoTeq.

 

PX5S was simply a controller board to play piano sounds from either the YC61, or P-teq and Keyscape, and sometimes all three layered.

 

After spending a lot of time with the Yamaha tutorials and tips and tricks videos, as well as scrolling thru the awesome setups of others on Soundmodo, the organ was dialed in very well. I used a few of Katsunori UJIEE's organ settings imported from Soundmondo.

 

For a couple of the organ tones, I primarily Stopped the Leslie, and just used C3 Chorus, and a touch of Pre drive. Percussion was third and soft.

Lastly, the YC61 organ patches were run thru my T-Racks5 Classic EQ, taming the higher frequencies, so that when I did use the on-board Leslie, it sounded fine.

 

Is it a true B# with a 122?? of course not. Did it sound great in this venue?? YES!

 

The nice thing about using my iPad (and DUET) i was able to go out into the venue with the sound engineer and "play" the YC61 organ patches from the iPad to help dial them in.

 

I still have plenty to learn on the YC61, but I have all the basics down. I had a few FUBARs where I poorly programmed some patches, and didn't completely turn off the rotary sim (it's in a separate section),so on quiet passages you could hear the "Leslie" motors spinning. Great effect, but not for those patches.

 

Luckily it's a front panel toggle.

 

All in all it was a great gig. My first true gig with a waterfall type keys on my synth/organ board. Felt really nice.

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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Gig Performer controlled everything as far as patch changes and hosting my VSTs; for this show I used Arturia Jupv ProV OBXa, Keyscape (for electric pianos) and PianoTeq.

 

PX5S was simply a controller board to play piano sounds from either the YC61, or P-teq and Keyscape, and sometimes all three layered.

Since you've got Gig Performer/VSTs in there anyway, have you thought about using the YC61 to control an organ VST?

 

 

Question: Does the YC61 have an easy way to instantly have your organ sound reflect the current position of the physical drawbars?

 

Yes...there's a shortcut. Hold the [Exit] button down and press the Lower/Upper button. See page 31 of the manual..."Special Operations".

Thanks. I thought I remembered that it did that but wasn't sure and looked in the wrong part of the manual to check. ;-) That's one more advantage it has over the VR-09.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Gig Performer controlled everything as far as patch changes and hosting my VSTs; for this show I used Arturia Jupv ProV OBXa, Keyscape (for electric pianos) and PianoTeq.

 

PX5S was simply a controller board to play piano sounds from either the YC61, or P-teq and Keyscape, and sometimes all three layered.

Since you've got Gig Performer/VSTs in there anyway, have you thought about using the YC61 to control an organ VST?

 

No

 

Truth be told, while I did use a couple of my VSTs, I tried to stay primarily with the sounds coming from the YC61.

 

The CFX and C7 grands are fantastic. The reason I still used some VSTs is because time constraints prevented me from fully programming and testing the YC61.

 

I"m still learning the way Yamaha sets up the 4 zones. Once I get that, it would be perfect with the 4 zone I can send from the PX 5S

 

My live gear is really designed to be two separate systems. The GigPerformer or Mainstage rig for fly-in shows. Where I just travel with rack bag

 

Then my main local/ 5 hour drive radius rig with just two boards and a DI box

 

It"s all fun to me, and I figure I have the tools, so why not use them?

 

In the big picture having 'controllers' that are fully functional boards on their own is a great way to have backup should a computer rig go tits up. Knocking on wood, hasn"t happened in over 6 years of using Mainstage and now GP

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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Since you've got Gig Performer/VSTs in there anyway, have you thought about using the YC61 to control an organ VST?

 

For the fun of it, using Cantabile, I set up the YC to control the Arturia B-3 V2. It was a bit complicated (for me at least) as the vibrato/chorus and percussion sections from the YC only send out sysex but once I set it up it was pretty cool to be able to control all of the elements of the B-3 V2 with controls that were designed for that purpose.

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For the fun of it, using Cantabile, I set up the YC to control the Arturia B-3 V2. It was a bit complicated (for me at least) as the vibrato/chorus and percussion sections from the YC only send out sysex but once I set it up it was pretty cool to be able to control all of the elements of the B-3 V2 with controls that were designed for that purpose.

Something else you might be able to do with the YC is set up an organ preset where a given Live Set calls up a particular organ registration on the YC *and* the same registration in your VST (via MIDI Program Change) simultaneously. Then your Arturai patch recalls should be in sync with the LED drawbar displays of the YC. This kind of thing should also work on the Nords with drawbuttons, the Vox Continental, and the Dexibells with moving faders/drawbars (presuming you can have the drawbars of the unit live while keeping the board's own organ engine silent). This is something I'm looking to experiement with myself.

 

It's a shame though that even the organ boards whose drawbars send MIDI CC (probably all of them except Roland?) don't necessarily also use MIDI CC for the ancillary controls. (And some of those boards may be missing some of those comtrols completely!)

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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It is totally NOT about what tin eared audience members can detect.

 

I sat behind a B-3 and leslie for years and years gigging. Organ is my first instrument.

 

What it actually IS about is having the organ emulation sound good enough to the player to let them stay in the moment.

 

That's how I feel also. That pretty much sums it up although I didn't gig with a rig like Moe did.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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haven't heard the YC61 through a Vent yet. I'm very tempted to try one - I can always return it if it doesn't offer significant improvements...

 

I would expect it to offer significant improvement... But I find it really awkward to use a rotary pedal on a keyboard that doesn't let you send organ out its own output. I thought the YC61 could do that with its panning trick, but now that I've learned that those settings are not savable, it doesn't really work. So, yes, you can put a Vent on your YC, but if you split or layer organ with another sound, you won't be able to put Vent on organ without putting it on your other sound. And even if you play just one sound at a time, I find it's awfully easy to forget to hit the bypass button when you switch from organ to brass or whatever, and suddenly you have the sound of brass going through a Leslie. (Especially in a multi-board rig, where you may switch to a board that you haven't been playing in the last couple of minutes.) I went through this with my old Korg G4 rotary pedal, and decided to never again use a rotary pedal on a board where I couldn't set up the organ with its own dedicated output.

 

I take your point Scott about needing to remember to bypass .. hopefully Yamaha will offer a split output option in a firmware update?

I'm only a home player, so no worries if I do get it wrong!

 

I couldn't resist trying out a Vent, so I bought one with a 30 day return option ....And unless Yamaha come up with a spectacular rotary sim update in the next 30 days, this Vent ain't going back! :)

 

It improves the rotary sound from the YC61 organ by a huge amount - especially on fast speed.

I've made a short audio clip with 3 short sections:

 

1) 'Raw' YC61 - no rotary - no EQ - no compression

 

2) Unchanged YC61 settings - through the internal rotary. (RtrA - minimum drive - tone set half way)

 

3) Unchanged YC61 settings - through the Vent.

 

Each section is only about 30 seconds - and sorry about the playing !

 

Copy here: www.jp137.com/las/YC61.Raw.InternalRotary.Vent.mp3

 

As you can hear, the Vent sounds dramatically better - especially on fast speed -- (IMHO of course!)

 

It's often said that a smell - or a taste - you haven't experienced for years can suddenly bring memories flooding back. How about a sound? .....

 

One thing that the Vent does is to 'spin' any reverb already on the output. Some folk like that - some don't. (I do!)

 

Back in the day (we're talking early 70s) I was working as a Hammond tech for a main dealer here in the UK.

For those installations for home use, reverb could play quite a big part in getting a good sound in a small room. Where a twin rotor Leslie was fitted, it depended on which model Hammond you were fitting it to which model was recommended.

For model A100 or M100 it was either a 251 or a 122RV. The organ reverb amplifier input was taken from the main speaker output, so had it's own internal speaker. This output was fed to a separate Leslie reverb amplifier, with its own internal (non rotating speakers).

Some folk hated that, and demanded we modify units, so that the reverb went through the rotors - as it would on a single channel model like the L100.

 

Hearing the spinning reverb through the Vent 50 years on brought memories flooding back about how much a special single channel mod was going to cost -- and what it would do to the warranty -- etc..etc.. :)

 

Happy days....

 

As I say, I don't think this Vent is going back -- even though it is a LOT of money for an effects pedal! :)

Yamaha - YC61 - P105 - MOX6 - HC2 -- Neo Vent 2
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They"ve clearly modeled those two to be paired. They do share sounds and interface similarities. But keep in mind they do the CP in a 73k for similar $ minus the organ section. If the organ section is a priority and you think a 61k semi with synth action with waterfall keys is a good compromise for the sound sets. Then yeah - this is a pretty cool board. I"m itching to sit at one.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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  • 3 months later...
Did you open your brand spanking new Stage 3 and swap out the springs?

I *finally* did the spring swap. Trickier than on the older Nords, only because instead of a phillips screwdriver, you need a Torx T30 to open it up. Anyway, yes, I like it much better.

 

As I posted in the other YC61 thread:

Some approximate measurements, from stacking nickels (5 grams each) on the fronts of the keys... maybe not precise, but at least in the ballpark:

 

Nord Stage 3 = 14 nickels to initiate key movement, 23 nickels to hold the key fully down

YC61 = 8 nickels to initiate key movement, 15 nickels to hold the key fully down

 

Nord Stage 3 with updated springs: 7 nickels to initiate key movement, 16 nickels to hold the key fully down

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Did you open your brand spanking new Stage 3 and swap out the springs?

I *finally* did the spring swap. Trickier than on the older Nords, only because instead of a phillips screwdriver, you need a Torx T30 to open it up. Anyway, yes, I like it much better.

 

As I posted in the other YC61 thread:

Some approximate measurements, from stacking nickels (5 grams each) on the fronts of the keys... maybe not precise, but at least in the ballpark:

 

Nord Stage 3 = 14 nickels to initiate key movement, 23 nickels to hold the key fully down

YC61 = 8 nickels to initiate key movement, 15 nickels to hold the key fully down

 

Nord Stage 3 with updated springs: 7 nickels to initiate key movement, 16 nickels to hold the key fully down

 

 

Scott, what springs did you replace them with? The same ones from Syntaur for your Artis?

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Scott, what springs did you replace them with? The same ones from Syntaur for your Artis?

They came from Syntaur, but were different from the ones for the Artis, KYSP27 based on recommendation from Al Quinn. Similar design, length is a bit different, maybe either would have worked, I don't know.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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