Dave Bryce Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Keyboard guys - nobody needs line mixers like we do, right? I've used a bunch of them, and many are either too limited or too noisy for my needs. A bunch of years ago, settled on an old Mackie LM3204 and a Speck xsum. As some of you may know, I just finished redoing my studio, and in the process I became aware of the Mackie's age and sonic limitations compared to the xsum. I looked around to see what was a vailable...and ended up getting a second xsum. The thing is simply noiseless - nothing else I've ever had in here comes close in that respect. Cost an arm and a leg...but ity really is worth it, IMO. What are the rest of you using? dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokely Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 All software at home so no mixer at all. Live, I've never used a line mixer per se, but I've used various small mixers from Mackie, Soundcraft etc. At certain stages I have used a keyboard or module as a "mixer" (Emu Proteus, Nord Electro 6, Yamaha Modx all can do it). Ended up getting a Key Largo since I no longer need a pre-fader send to mix my monitor feed back in (which severely limited choices). (shout-out to Radial who sent me a few extra little washers that had somehow come off the output jacks. Really nice of them.) I've gotten so close over the years to buying one--I remember debating whether to get a Roland something-or-other decades ago. The latest I considered was a Samson sm-10. I think for home studio use I'd be a bit more finicky than live and probably shell out more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Keyboard guys - nobody needs line mixers like we do, right? I've used a bunch of them, and many are either too limited or too noisy for my needs. A bunch of years ago, settled on an old Mackie LM3204 and a Speck xsum. As some of you may know, I just finished redoing my studio, and in the process I became aware of the Mackie's age and sonic limitations compared to the xsum. I looked around to see what was a vailable...and ended up getting a second xsum. The thing is simply noiseless - nothing else I've ever had in here comes close in that respect. Cost an arm and a leg...but ity really is worth it, IMO. dB Exactly what I would do if I didn't have the Xtramix. Did you get the little module that lets you tie them together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted September 2, 2020 Author Share Posted September 2, 2020 Did you get the little module that lets you tie them together? Yep - it comes stock now! dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Did you get the little module that lets you tie them together? Yep - it comes stock now! dB Cool! From an architecture standpoint that line mixer is probably as clean as theoretically possible. There's just not much electronics in each channel path to get in the way. What little there is is super high quality. I've said it before but happy to repeat: Vince goes out on a limb with customer service which matches up with his products ultra-high quality. "Schematics? Sure, what's your email? Spare parts? What do you need?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Wow, just saw a $2100 MSRP on the unit. I'm sure it sounds phenomenal but I equate it to purchasing a Hammond clone; the single manual XK5 for $3600 or a dual manual Mojo for nearly 1/2 that cost. I would love to purchase an XK5 (and actually could afford to purchase it if I chose to) but consciously would not do that. Probably the same for this mixer; the mixer I'm using does an adequate job at 1/10 the price. Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorayM Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 I had a Sampson SM10 for a while which was great for routing but a bit noisy for my taste. Nowadays I use a Scarlett 18i20 as both an interface and a programmable mixer which works really well. It seems like there's a huge gulf in price between the lower quality rack mixers like these Samson and the top drawer Radial gear, and without going down the full digital desk route, the Focusrite fits the bill on price and features nicely. Quote North Haverbrook - Godsticks - SoundCloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miden Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 I use a Rolls MiniMix Pro Quote There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence... Time is the final arbiter for all things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted September 2, 2020 Author Share Posted September 2, 2020 Wow, just saw a $2100 MSRP on the unit. I'm sure it sounds phenomenal but I equate it to purchasing a Hammond clone; the single manual XK5 for $3600 or a dual manual Mojo for nearly 1/2 that cost. I would love to purchase an XK5 (and actually could afford to purchase it if I chose to) but consciously would not do that. Probably the same for this mixer; the mixer I'm using does an adequate job at 1/10 the price. I do a bunch of recording, and the Speck mixers are simply noiseless. Overkill for live, to be sure...but in the studio, that's invaluable to me. For perspective, you're talking to a guy who paid to get isolated individually earthed circuits on three out of the four walls in the room. dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 For perspective, you're talking to a guy who paid to get isolated individually earthed circuits on three out of the four walls in the room. dB Oh man - now we're talk'n. Fortunately my grounding configuration is pretty good from when I had my basement redone although I could improve it some. However electrocution is the least of my worries if my wife catches me messing with this stuff again. I just completed installing a manual transfer switch for a generator and a new whole house surge suppressor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorayM Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 For perspective, you're talking to a guy who paid to get isolated individually earthed circuits on three out of the four walls in the room. dB knows how to roll! Quote North Haverbrook - Godsticks - SoundCloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuelBLupowitz Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 For perspective, you're talking to a guy who paid to get isolated individually earthed circuits on three out of the four walls in the room. dB Oh man - now we're talk'n. Fortunately my grounding configuration is pretty good from when I had my basement redone although I could improve it some. However electrocution is the least of my worries if my wife catches me messing with this stuff again. I just completed installing a manual transfer switch for a generator and a new whole house surge suppressor. Um... I think I'm gonna need to do a consult with you two when we start doing more work in the home studio... sounds like you have some first-hand experience with the stuff I've been thinking "hmm, I wonder if we could..." Right now, I have a 24-channel analog Mackie 8-Bus console that I got for free sitting on top of my Leslie, so I can run lines from the Wurlitzer, Gibson combo organ, Clav, Novation synth, and laptop (the latter two in stereo), and mic lines from the Leslie and the acoustic piano. But even I, looking upon the Mackie's plasticky girth pouring over the edges of the 147, think to myself "this might be a little much." And a bunch of the channel inputs are, shall we say, hairy. So let's just say I'll be following this thread with interest. Though honestly, when I get to the point where I'm ready to spend more money on this kind of gear, I'll probably just get an expander for our 16-channel interface that I can completely hog with keyboard lines all the time. "No, no, I just really like a nice Glyn Johns mic setup on the drums! You don't need all that close mic shit! I'm sorry, what was that? Didn't hear you over Hammond... don't you love how big it sounds with the stereo spread plus the low rotor mic'ed up?" Quote Samuel B. Lupowitz Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 I had a Rane SM 82 but sold it to ChicoJimbo 2 years or so ago. Still have an Ashley LX 308B, it was the best that I could afford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted September 2, 2020 Author Share Posted September 2, 2020 I like the Rane, and I've heard good things about the Ashly. Neither has enough inputs for me, though... dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyNQ Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 I don"t do studio recording - only play live. Which kind of means I don"t play at all at the moment! Big rig - Ashly LX308B Small rig - Radial Key Largo (I Velcro it to my top 'board). David Holloway sold this to me at 'mate"s rates'. Both whisper quiet. The mixers, not David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 I was thinking exactly to start a thread about this. I really need a new synth mixer. The 32/8/2 Behringer that I have used for many years (don't say anything, please) is long gone. During the last years of its life it was spending more time in repair than at home.... For live - assuming that live music will come back - I have a couple of small mixers, as I usually don't need more than 6-8 channels. But at home, I have many sound sources, and I really dislike to continually connect and disconnect things. It seems that the choices are few. Ideally, I would love a Mackie LM3204, but with better s/n ratio and *eq defeat*. The Xsum would be perfect, but really expensive and non-existent on the used market, especially in Europe. Plus, I could really use a couple of effect sends, to connect my hardware effects and to record on-the-fly multi-synth performances. Mackie, Soundcraft, and other brands of 32-channel analog mixers are now cheaper on the used market, but really big and quite old. Looks like the more reasonable solution would be a Behringer X32, or one of its little brothers. I am a little wary about going digital, especially with Behringer, but it seems that they have their quality control together now, and I'd really like to have 16 faders, each driving a stereo input, just like on the LM and the Xsum. Of course, at that point I would also use it as a recording mixer - even though I wouldn't need the effects, eq, mic preamps, or even patch memory... So, I would like to know, too, if there are other solutions for a summing/synth mixer, without spending that much for a Speck (much more expensive here than in the USA). Possibly analog, and with stereo channel strips.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 I"m still using the Samson SM-10. It has the channels and the buss routings I need. It"s a little noisy but considering the noisy floors of the guitars and other environmental factors it"s meaningless. If I needed to use it for recording it would be a no go. Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 So, I would like to know, too, if there are other solutions for a summing/synth mixer, without spending that much for a Speck (much more expensive here than in the USA). Possibly analog, and with stereo channel strips.... Have you considered an audio interface instead of a mixer? Something like this? Many other similar type models on their site that may match up better with your specific needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 So, I would like to know, too, if there are other solutions for a summing/synth mixer, without spending that much for a Speck (much more expensive here than in the USA). Possibly analog, and with stereo channel strips.... Have you considered an audio interface instead of a mixer? Something like this? Many other similar type models on their site that may match up better with your specific needs. Thanks Mark, I have thought about something like that, but I would really prefer a mixer which stays separated from the computer. Also, the cost of such an interface plus the hardware to control it would easily exceed the price of an Xmix! I've also been asking around about getting an analog summing mixer custom-built for me... but with the use of high-quality components, it would be expensive as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miden Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 I guess you looked at the Rolls? Quote There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence... Time is the final arbiter for all things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 I guess you looked at the Rolls? Assuming you're talking to me, yes, I had a look, but it looks like they don't have anything with 32 inputs or so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 Three daisy chained Rane SM82 line mixers. Secret to low noise is short expansion cables between the SM82 units and proper grounding in the power distribution. The latter can bite you as your system grows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJkeys Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 I have had the Ashly LX-308B for 15 years. Quiet, reasonably priced, daisy-chainable, and built like a tank: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LX308B--ashly-lx-308b-line-mixer -dj Quote iMac i7 13.5.2 Studio One 5.5.2 Nord Stage 3 Nord Wave 2 Nektar T4 Drawmer DL 241 Focusrite ISA Two Focusrite Clarett 8 Pre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marzzz Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 I also had an Ashly LX-308B, and it was great- like DJ says it is quiet, reasonably priced, simple to operate. I used it in conjunction with an Apogee Duet. Since then for better or worse I now use a Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, and it also works very well and my analog gear sounds good thru it. From my perspective it is just easier to have everything going digital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 Being the geek that I am I like looking at specs - especially on high end equipment. Specs are just one factor to consider but still useful; more so if they provide the test conditions. Unfortunately neither manufacturer gives an entire picture and they are difficult to compare in some respects. Still the LX-308B looks very respectable. The X.Sum on the other hand is just plain SICK, with a price difference to match. But keep in mind it also provides double the channel count which accounts for a big chunk of that price differential. Ashley LX-308B Specs Speck X.Sum Specs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confidence Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 What's the difference between a "line mixer" and a "mixer"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJkeys Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 What's the difference between a "line mixer" and a "mixer"? I think generally a line mixer is designed without Mic pres- -dj Quote iMac i7 13.5.2 Studio One 5.5.2 Nord Stage 3 Nord Wave 2 Nektar T4 Drawmer DL 241 Focusrite ISA Two Focusrite Clarett 8 Pre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanZea Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 Live I (used to) use a Key Largo (2 keyboards, so relatively simple). In my studio I have lots of line-level sources. I used to use a Berhinger X32 together with about five RX1602 mixers. I've now replaced that with four times a (still) Behringer XR-18. That gives me 72 line-inputs which are converted to digital, and I can record via USB, I made my own (passive) summing mixer. So now all my keyboards in my studio are connected. If I play anything, I can hear it (I don't have to patch anything, so nothing stands in the way of creativity). With the noise-gates on the XR-18's, my studio is also silent. I'm very happy with this solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 What's the difference between a "line mixer" and a "mixer"? I think generally a line mixer is designed without Mic pres- -dj No mic pre, and usually no EQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRollins Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 For perspective, you're talking to a guy who paid to get isolated individually earthed circuits on three out of the four walls in the room. dB High End audio trick: Depending on what you're running on those lines, you might consider running each outlet to a separate breaker, preferably 30A. For little stuff like keyboards (10-30W) or mixers (what...5W?), it's not worth it, but if you've got power amplifiers on the line, it can make a difference. Heavy current draw on the line can lead to a drop in line voltage. Also, it used to be that the design of breakers meant they used a coil to drive a solenoid to trip the breaker (probably still true, but I haven't looked into it in a while and things may have changed), and high current causes a drop there, too. This is seriously tweaky, guilding the lily stuff, but if your head's in that space it's worth considering. Grey Quote I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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