WIDI - wireless MIDI that doesn't suck?

[drawback]

Got mine yesterday, downloaded the recommended free iOS app to pair, and it was connected immediately. Two of the most resource-hungry iOS VIs, B-3X and NeoSoul 2, allowed 1024 buffer only - no other choice - resulting in way too much lag. Other apps such as Ravenscroft and Korg Module allowed the full range of buffer settings, and have no discernible latency. I then tried my Korg PlugKey and saw B-3X and NS2 went back to offering the full range of buffers.

 

From that I"m assuming WIDI Master (like my Quicco Bluetooth dongle) uses enough CPU to push my 2018 iPad to limit buffer size on the heaviest apps.

 

YMMV as I had to quit there. I"ll give it another shot today by restarting the iPad and disabling everything to see if that helps, but I"m thinking those with an iPad Pro will have better results out of the gate.

 

No problem whatsoever connecting WIDI Master to the Mac; no noticeable latency

[miden]

I can get way lower on NeoSoul,I have mine currently at 256 (5.8ms) with no issues at all. iPad Pro

[BenWaB3]

Mine came in last week. It seemed to choke up playing faster runs with Neo-Soul. Then I tried doing hammer trills on B-3X while running a lt hand bass line & it was skipping & hiccupping. I went back to the Yamaha MD-BT01 & the problems went away.

 

"drawback - Got mine yesterday, downloaded the recommended free iOS app to pair" Is this the midimitr app or is there another one specifically made for iOS? Thanks.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

Mine is supposed to arrive Friday, just in time to have no more gigs on the calendar... plenty of time to play around with it in the studio before the stakes are high, then!

 

Keep me posted on the occasional iOS lag, and if that improves for any of you. Playing a few gigs with just an iPad as a sound source for my Seaboard has me really itching to get my replacement MacBook, to be honest, and I've found my 2018 iPad Mini starts getting gummy with the Seaboard's MIDI-over-Bluetooth at times, but I'm still looking forward to having the option to connect other boards to an iOS or OS X rig wirelessly.

[cjfox]

I got mine a week or so ago, 2 units, and as a midi cable replacement, they work fine, I didn't notice any latency. A couple of problems I do have are that my main desire was to control some older hardware stuff (Nord Electro and Korg Triton) with a Roland Ax Edge. The Ax Edge has Bluetooth already, but when I try to pair it, it only works as a slave, and not as a master, which is what I want. I can pair the Ax Edge with my ipad, so the Bluetooth portion is working from that end. I contacted product support, and they were prompt at replying, and the issue is something in how Roland has implemented Bluetooth on the Ax Edge, which will be fixed with using the firmware update, unfortunately only available for Android, and I don't have any Android devices, so I'll have to wait for an IOS app. I also found out that the first WIDI powered up will pair with the first Bluetooth signal it sees, not neccessarily with the target device, unless you power that one up first. IE you have to power things on in the order you want them to connect. That will also be changed to allow specific parings in the firmware update. I am pleased with the product overall, and as I don't have any gigs that I need this for, I can wait a bit longer.

[drawback]

Mine came in last week. It seemed to choke up playing faster runs with Neo-Soul. Then I tried doing hammer trills on B-3X while running a lt hand bass line & it was skipping & hiccupping. I went back to the Yamaha MD-BT01 & the problems went away.

 

"drawback - Got mine yesterday, downloaded the recommended free iOS app to pair" Is this the midimitr app or is there another one specifically made for iOS? Thanks.

 

Yes, the midimitr app is the one.

[brenner13]

Two pairs arrived in the mail yesterday. Only opened one so far, just to see it work. Alesis Vortex W2 and iPad...my go-to couch rig. While the connection is solid and I had zero hung notes in the hour long test, latency is very much more present than with the wireless dongle with the CCK adapter. Some apps are far worse than others...oddly ones that are super quick with other wireless midi systems are rather unplayable with the current bluetooth system; Ravenscroft and Hammond B-3X are far slower than any Korg app. This is opposite from all previous experiences.

 

Most apps can detect bluetooth without the midimitr app and latency is slightly improved without it in the chain, but still mostly unusable the way it is working right now. I"m wondering if the Vortex"s wireless transmissions might be interfering with the Bluetooth signal some? Latency varies widely note to note and seems slower with faster runs, pitchbend, and many notes played at the same time. The firmware might be in its infancy, so perhaps enhancements are in the works.

 

I jumped on this technology mostly to control other midi devices like the Korg MS2000r from the DeepMind or Numa Compact 2X. Also anxious to try controlling Super JX with iPG800 via Alesis I/O Dock ii. Apparently latency is to be as low as 3ms when using two sets of WIDI Master. I've rehearsals the next couple of days, but hope to share more test results by the weekend.

 

edit:

Found 10 minutes last night to fly the MS2000r from the DeepMind...OH these two synchs layer up so nice! Could detect very little latency, if any at all.

 

Ooh, just realised that perhaps iPad app iPG800 might be able to control JX10 wirelessly without need of the Alesis I/O Dock ii. That'll be next.

Very happy with these WIDI Masters, now.

[kenheeter]

Mine work great but there is some latency between a master keyboard and my V5 piano module that isn't there if I use a cable. I need to do more testing between Nord Stage, Crumar Seven and YC61 so see how the latency is there. I'll report back once I've done that. One other thing is that you need to have a Midi out as well as a Midi in to use them to receive. You can send with just the Midi out.

[Sam CA]

So you guys had this WIDI master for a while. Anyone not happy with it?

[BenWaB3]

So you guys had this WIDI master for a while. Anyone not happy with it?

 

Since it would choke up on busy passages or show latency on others I'm not that happy with it. I haven't had a chance to try to run apps directly without going through midimitr yet but hope that will solve the problem when I do.

[Sam CA]

 

Since it would choke up on busy passages or show latency on others I'm not that happy with it. I haven't had a chance to try to run apps directly without going through midimitr yet but hope that will solve the problem when I do.

 

 

Ah! There are some performance issue keywords right there!

[miden]

Still waiting on mine...they are somewhere between Frankfurt and Oz hahaha!

[SamuelBLupowitz]

Mine arrived last night. So did my new MacBook. Report forthcoming.

[Dave Bryce]

Finally got around to plugging mine in...but it doesn't seem to work. I get the soft slow blue light pulsing...but no Bluetooth device sees it - neither my MacBook nor iPad.

 

WIDI Master is plugged into Forte's MIDI out, sub piece is plugged into Forte's MIDI in, the two are connected with the attached 2.5mm cable.

 

I'm missing something stupid, right?

 

dB

[Josh Paxton]

I got mine a little while ago. It works, though it turned out not to be a better solution than what I was already using for the particular job I got it for. Still, it's good to have, as I could see it being one of those that I unexpectedly end up needing.

[brenner13]

Try the midimittr app...for iPad. I don"t have a Mac, but likely the same?

[miden]

First shipment got lost somewhere in Frankfut! So they sent a second set, still to arrive

[232006]

@Dave,

 

Don"t know if you have solved your Bluetooth connection yet?

 

But, assuming Bluetooth hasn"t somehow been disabled on the iPad, if you haven"t used whatever software App you are connecting with to connect to a Bluetooth midi device before, you may have to allow it in the iPad settings.

 

Under 'Privacy' - 'Bluetooth' it should show what Apps have wanted access to Bluetooth and whether it has been allowed.

 

Some Apps may see Bluetooth midi devices without any additional App once allowed to, but others may need 'midimittr' as mentioned by others.

I found I had to manually allow midimittr access in those settings too.

[brenner13]

Once things are connected with midimittr, most apps will reconnect with Widi without midimittr. Seems to improve the latency a bit for me, but still very noticeable.

 

The Alesis wireless dongle and Vortex has less latency, but often suffers with stuck notes. So far I"ve not had a single stuck note with Widi Master.

 

Midi Panda is still my favorite wireless midi system because there"s almost no latency. Seems every bit as fast as cables. Also has a reliable connection distance of 300+ feet! It"s just a little finicky with batteries and slightly bulky components. No Bluetooth compatibility with this one, either.

 

CME has two more wireless midi systems in the works: WIDI Jack and Uhost that are compatible with the other Bluetooth stuff. Jack does the 2.5mm/3.5mm thingies and as the other one alludes to, USB. They both have similar pre-order pricing going on as they did with WIDI Master.

[Mike Kent]

I have a couple of the WIDI Master pairs. I'm very happy with the performance.

 

I've used mine with a bunch of synths (mostly Roland) and the WIDI Master works well. Connection was pretty seamless. Plug in, wait a few moments for connection, then play some notes and controllers and the receiver plays as expected. I have not really tried to send a very dense stream of multiple, simultaneous controllers.

 

I ran into a couple of limitations:

 

1. When using it with my Studiologic Sledge to control another synth, I get hung notes on the other synth. I assume (but do not know for sure) that the Sledge does not quite supply enough power for reliable function. Supplying power to another devices is not in the MIDI specification, so it's probably not really Studiologic's fault. I don't really fault the WIDI for this either. It's simply a limitation when designing a device that does not have its own power source. Having a device operate without requiring batteries or power is well worth the occasional problem. Some devices won't supply enough power. I have not found any such problem with any of my other devices.

 

2. When running MIDI Clock from my Roland JD-Xi to JP-08 to synchronize the sequencers, I found evidence of the latency. The 2 devices ran in sync okay, but the timing was not really tight. I swapped to a MIDI cable and immediately heard the difference, much tighter sync. Okay, I probably won't use it to sync devices.

 

I was the Chairman of the Bluetooth LE MIDI Working Group. I know something about the underlying technologies. I think it is useful to know that when connecting a BLE MIDI peripheral to a host, the latency is going to be decided by the host, not by the WIDI Master. For example, iOS devices have a longer service interval (resulting in higher latency) than OSX devices when used with a WIDI Master. You will almost always get lower latency when 2 WIDI devices connect to each other.

 

I recommend the WIDI Master but with the understanding that there are limitations with any wireless connection. WIDI Master is a pretty good implementation of BLE MIDI.

[AnotherScott]

Supplying power to another devices is not in the MIDI specification, so it's probably not really Studiologic's fault.

The majority of MIDI OUTs do supply either 3.3 or 5 volts, though. Maybe the Studiologic is supplying 3.3 and the WIDI prefers 5?

[Dave Bryce]

@Dave,

 

Don"t know if you have solved your Bluetooth connection yet?

 

But, assuming Bluetooth hasn"t somehow been disabled on the iPad, if you haven"t used whatever software App you are connecting with to connect to a Bluetooth midi device before, you may have to allow it in the iPad settings.

 

Under 'Privacy' - 'Bluetooth' it should show what Apps have wanted access to Bluetooth and whether it has been allowed.

 

Some Apps may see Bluetooth midi devices without any additional App once allowed to, but others may need 'midimittr' as mentioned by others.

I found I had to manually allow midimittr access in those settings too.

Thanks for the suggestion...but that isn"t it. No device is seeing it.

 

dB

[Josh Paxton]

I just tried seeing if I could use this to control my Sub 37 with my cheap Rock Band 3 keytar, but it didn't work; the two units wouldn't pair. I don't know if it's a power issue with the controller, or something else.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

Just wanted to mention that I used the WIDI master with my Mojo at a campfire rehearsal the other night, controlling Wurli patches and Pianoteq in Mainstage... very satisfying! Maybe if I had A/B'd it with a cable, I'd notice a difference in latency, and I imagine the 32 gigs of RAM in my new MacBook doesn't hurt matters, but either way I'm very pleased that this is an option. One less cable to hook up whenever gigging is happening again.

[cjfox]

I'm still waiting for the IOS updater app so I can use my Roland Ax Edge as a master controlling legacy synths. Currently the Widi only lets the Ax Edge act as a slave from another controller, not what I want. The brief testing I did, I encountered no noticeable latency, but I was going between legacy synths, and not a computer. CME says this will be fixed in the firmware update, but I don't have any Android devices.

[AnotherScott]

Currently the Widi only lets the Ax Edge act as a slave from another controller

Why is that? I was under the impression that a pair of these can be used as a functional equivalent to a wireless MIDI cable, what prevents this from working on the Edge?

[cjfox]

CME replied to my request for support and indicated the issue is in the way Roland implemented BLE in some of their equipment. (Ax Edge has built in bluetooth) The issue is solved by updating the WIDI firmware, which is currently only possible with an android app. The WIDI works fine between my older legacy equipment.

[miden]

FINALLY, got mine - a little disappointed in the size of the out...it's a fair bit bigger than CME indicated, well at least the stuff I saw. I'll try it out tomorrow. At this stage the ONLY advantage over the Yammies is you can disconnect the in.

[RudyS]

I also ordered a CME WIDI master as well. It was also my understanding that for 1 direction purposes I could use one. Luckily I will use it with a controller which has Bluetooth, so I think it will work with only 1, but still.

[RudyS]

Ok. Just received this and I think it is useless for my use. I want to use my keytar to control my hardware synth. First the main adapter has to be connected to the midi out. But I don't want that, as I want to use that for controlling another synth. I only want it in the midi in. Apparently is this is not how it works. Secondly the vortex bluetooth won't connect to this. Too bad.

 

I do think this product suffers a bit from misleading marketing. It cannot act a replacement of a simple midi cable controlling a synth from a controller in one way. You will have to have 2 WIDI masters and the midi out is always occupied with the WIDI master.