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To fix or not to fix, that is the question


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I recently got a fabulous deal on a Silvertone amp-in-case guitar, the one with two pickups(I don't recall the number, 1458 or something). My plan is to play the guitar, mostly for slide, cause they sound so cool for that.

 

The problem is, the bridge is in the wrong place on the body, and the strings slant towards bass side of the neck. They don't quite fall off the neck, but they don't miss it by much. It looks like the body would have to be filled and redrilled to get it in the right place.

 

Can anybody tell me if I'd be shooting myself in the bank account by making the guitar

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

 

 

 

 

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Can you post photos? I've been a guitar tech for decades but I need to see the guitar to make recommendations.

 

That is a Danelectro guitar by the description, Sears ordered them with Silvertone logos. They DO sound great, I've had one of those same guitars and still have a couple of Silvertone Danos.

The lipstick pickup is one of the best sounding vintage pickups and usually they can be set up to play very well.

 

Six on a side headstock and red glitterburst with thick masonite pickguard?

 

Photo of my personal favorite posted. Different model, dolphin nose U1. Did not come with the amp in case, that is a cool rig!

1389.thumb.jpg.e7550b0fdec0704a299aacd7fcf57482.jpg

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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How about using a "slide guitar extension nut" for $5 bucks from Stewmac. Keeps the guitar stock and you should be able to move the strings over a little...I can't figure out how the bridge got moved in the first place? :cool:

 

We can't assume it is stock until we see photos. When Danelectro went ouf of business they had an auction and sold everything.

 

There are lots of "Booger Danos" out there, slapped together from parts. The Fat Dog Danos are famous, somebody in the Bay Area ended up with a huge stash of Dano parts and made all sorts of interesting variants, done by an experienced luthier. Not all "luthiers" are experienced. Which is why I've requested photos.

 

Moving the bridge to the correct position is a matter of drilling 3 small holes in the right place and moving the screws/bridge to it's proper location.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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If it's going to only be used for slide, it shouldn't matter that the strings are off the bass side. Otherwise, how about cutting a new bridge saddle with the slots moved toward the treble side? Or a replacement stop tail or tune-o-matic, since you'll want higher action? It's a bolt on neck, right? How about loosening it and mashing it toward the bass side, or rotating the headstock toward the treble side, since I doubt it's in a high precision cut neck pocket.
Scott Fraser
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If it's going to only be used for slide, it shouldn't matter that the strings are off the bass side. Otherwise, how about cutting a new bridge saddle with the slots moved toward the treble side? Or a replacement stop tail or tune-o-matic, since you'll want higher action? It's a bolt on neck, right? How about loosening it and mashing it toward the bass side, or rotating the headstock toward the treble side, since I doubt it's in a high precision cut neck pocket.

 

Some possibilities here, again we need photos to know what we are working with.

 

It has been my experience that the router jigs used at Danelectro were pretty precise, Fender had sloppier neck joints than Danelectro, just for one.

It could be that somebody picked up the parts at the going-out-of-business auction and the simple task of aligning the bridge correctly was beyond their abilities.

 

If that's all it is, it would be super simple to correct it. If the frets are not too worn, I've consistently found that vintage Danelectros can be set with very low action and no buzzes. The fretboard radius is 16", pretty "flat" so there is no tendency to "tink out" like the 7.5" radius on the vintage Fenders. The two steel bars embedded in the neck are done properly, I've not seen a warped Dano neck ever. There is a reason why some top players like David Lindley play vintage Dano guitars. They were stupid cheap to make but the tooling and design work was at a high standard. If your jigs allow you to make decent quality guitars you will have less waste and make more money but it takes vision to engender that approach. Nat Daniels was certainly a visionary, if a bit of an oddball. He could have made high end guitars but chose to be an outstanding "guttersnipe".

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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When Danelectro went out of business they had an auction and sold everything.

 

I bought the last of the bodies and necks from Dan Electro I seem to recall in that sell off. I was late in pulling the trigger so I only got a dozen necks and a few bodies. I never did anything with them, until I was selling a bunch of Martin woods as well as my Stew Mac table which was the old wooden one for truing the neck for fretwork. I sold it all to some luthier in the north bay area (North side of the Golden Gate bridge in one of those towns near the GG Bridge). The Dan Electro parts went with that sale.

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When Danelectro went out of business they had an auction and sold everything.

 

I bought the last of the bodies and necks from Dan Electro I seem to recall in that sell off. I was late in pulling the trigger so I only got a dozen necks and a few bodies. I never did anything with them, until I was selling a bunch of Martin woods as well as my Stew Mac table which was the old wooden one for truing the neck for fretwork. I sold it all to some luthier in the north bay area (North side of the Golden Gate bridge in one of those towns near the GG Bridge). The Dan Electro parts went with that sale.

 

 

DBM, y'all are a part of guitar history!!!! I bet somebody made some fine guitars out those parts.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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Can you post photos? I've been a guitar tech for decades but I need to see the guitar to make recommendations.
I'll try.

 

That is a Danelectro guitar by the description, Sears ordered them with Silvertone logos. They DO sound great, I've had one of those same guitars and still have a couple of Silvertone Danos.
I had one of the reissues, a lavender U1. It wasn't bad.

 

The lipstick pickup is one of the best sounding vintage pickups and usually they can be set up to play very well.
I've always been fascinated with the lipstick tubes.

 

Six on a side headstock and red glitterburst with thick masonite pickguard?
that's the one.

 

Photo of my personal favorite posted. Different model, dolphin nose U1. Did not come with the amp in case, that is a cool rig!
They always looked pretty cool.

 

I'm certain it hasn't been modded at all. You gotta remember, they were a cheap-o guitar, and not really made to exacting tolerances. The bridge being badly placed is well within the realm of possibility.

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

 

 

 

 

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I'm certain it hasn't been modded at all. You gotta remember, they were a cheap-o guitar, and not really made to exacting tolerances. The bridge being badly placed is well within the realm of possibility.

 

do these show what I mean?

 

Thanks, the photos are sharp and clear, they do show the symptom but not the cause. It would be very helpful to also have a shot of the bridge area. A bridge alignment like that would be a legendary part of Dano history if there were very many of them at all. I've never heard of it before. The jig could have been misused or debris caused a misalignment. More handwork involved then there is now, more possibility of a mistake being made.

 

I owned one like yours, somebody played the living hell out of mine. It was a great guitar but somehow I didn't love it. Never tried it for slide, that's a good call. I've seen quite a few old Silvertone and Danelectro guitars that have notable wear and tear from being played, players seem to love them.

 

I both agree and disagree with the "not really made to exacting tolerances." Yes, built to a price, a low price. An odd marriage of Masonite and Brazilian rosewood to be sure. The tuners are as cheap as you could get back then, pretty tragic. I'm not a fan of the aluminum nut, I made a bone nut for my U1. On the other hand, the design of the bridge assembly is one of my personal favorites. I've owned and played quite a few old Danos from the 50's and 60's and the fingerboard slotting and fret work has been consistently better than the cost would suggest. The end result once you get one set up correctly is an oddly pleasant but low volume acoustic guitar with great sounding pickups, slinky strings and low action. Unless you want to play slide. Very easy to adjust the stock bridge for high action, there is usually a shim (a piece of 60 grit emory cloth is common. Removing that shim will raise the action notably. The two screws supporting the bridge on the end closer to the neck are height adjustment screws too, counter clockwise raises action.

 

Sloppy neck mounting route has been mentioned, if that is the case it will be easy to take a firm grip on the neck at the nut and the upper horn and shift the neck/string alignment by pushing the neck up or down. If it won't move at all then there is probably no problem. That means the holes for the screws have been drilled in the wrong place. That is not difficult to do, if the neck joint is tight then that's the option and I can provide guidance. Cheers, Kuru

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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That'd make a fantastic slide guitar!

 

Now, if that string-alignment problem isn't caused by the neck shifting awry as mentioned by KuruPrionz above...

 

Are there string-notches in the saddle- either made, or just worn into the wood?

 

If it'll fit this way (I believe that it's a flat piece of wood simply lying on a flat piece of metal, attached by a small screw and further held down in place by the strings), try flipping that wooden bridge-saddle around 180°- switching bass-side to treble-side, 'n' vice-verse; I think it may have just been reversed by someone!

 

That saddle should be held to the plate by a single screw, in a slot that allows some limited front-to-back and angle adjustment, maybe even a little side-to-side movement...

 

You might even carefully bore a new hole in the wood, so that the saddle centers better.

 

If that doesn't work, either replace the saddle with another wooden (or other material) saddle piece- direct drop-in replacements are cheap (just Google search for "Danelectro Rosewood Replacement Bridge Saddle"); Allparts has 'em, maybe others, maybe a little minimal sanding/filing/shallow notch-cutting might be required, maybe not even- or maybe even just carefully cut some new notches in the old saddle.

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Got it. That guitar is in amazing condition, probably because it is unplayable in it's present state. We can fix that.

 

If you tried shifting the neck over and it doesn't move then the next step is to move the bridge to the proper location.

 

Tools you will need: Masking tape (blue painters tape is fine), a pencil, a drill, a bit (we'll choose the size soon), a punch or awl to create accurate starter locations for the drill, a Phillips screwdriver and a straightedge/ruler (12" will work, 18" will be more accurate. The edge of a table or cupboard door could be used.). A countersink bit would be nice to have but you can get this done without it. If you have one, great, if not maybe you can borrow one? You may also need another bit, Elmers glue and a dowel or just an epoxy based filler, see below. If you happen to have access to a drill press with a large enough "throat" to fit the guitar, that is always the best route to precise drilling. You can to this without a drill press, just proceed with care and caution.

 

Loosen the strings at the tuners enough to get them free of the tailpiece notches on the bridge. You can leave them on the tuners. Remove the single bridge screw that is closest to the endpin. The bridge plate should lift off. Remove the other two screws that were beneath the bridge. Select a drill bit that is the same diameter (or just slightly larger) than the diameter of the shaft of the screw - it must be smaller than the diameter of the threads.

 

Possibly optional - You may be able to mount the bridge in the correct position without filling the original screw holes. If so, it's your choice if you want to fill the old holes. You could either drill them out just a bit larger and glue dowels in the holes or you could fill them with an epoxy based filler. I prefer the dowels but the filler would be easier and faster. Your choice.

 

Lay down strips of tape to cover the general area where the bridge goes. Be generous, over extend by at least an inch in all directions. Place the straightedge tightly along the upper edge of the fretboard on the low string side and extending past the holes for the two support screws. Draw a line with the pencil on the tape. Do the same on the high string side of the fretboard.

 

Punch through the tape where the two support screws were located, the pencil can do this. Place the straightedge/ruler on center of the two holes and draw a line that goes well past the two neck edge lines on both sides. With the ruler on the screw hole line, measure the distance between the two neck lines, divide that in half and make a mark there. Measure the distance from center to center of the original support screw holes, divide that in half and make marks from your new correct centerline to the correct locations for the support screws.

 

Use the punch or awl to make a small indentation to guide the drill bit. Make sure to mark the bit (masking tape will work) so it doesn't go all the way through the guitar!!! Drill your two screw holes at the new locations. If you have a countersink, carefully use the drill to go down just a small amount and bevel the screw holes. This is cosmetic, a good thing to do but it will work without it.

 

Place the bridge on top of the guitar with the two holes for the support screws in the bridge centered on your new screw holes. Mark the center of the third screw hole (the mounting screw near the endpin). Drill that hole.

Scrape a little bar soap or candle wax on the threads of the screws. Install the two support screws first. Place the bridge on top of them and install the mounting screw through the bridge.

 

The rest should just be adjustment. You will have noted that the rosewood saddle is held in place by a small screw underneath the bridge and that it can be adjusted regarding a slant to the bridge and/or distance towards or away from the neck. Typically slanted like an acoustic guitar saddle and adjusted so the octave harmonic (12th fret) lines up with the 12th fret. For slide you will want it set where the octave note is ABOVE the 12th fret.

 

Dont tighten the mounting screw all the way down, you need to leave it high enough for the strings to be easily loaded into the slots. At that point, it can pivot enough to accommodate a spread of action/height settings. If you need the action higher than the mounting screw wants to allow, raise the mounting screw up a bit.

 

That's how I do it, have done quite a few guitars in a similar fashion. No Danos but the principles apply.

Please feel free to ask any questions and let us know your results!!!! Cheers, Kuru

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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I certainly don't want to contradict anything noted above (especially not Kuru's awesome detailed instructions!) but I had a thought...

Dangerous, I know.

 

In the picture of the bridge, the screw on the bass side of the bridge looks like it might be a different size than the other two screws. Could it be that if a smaller screw was used there, it's not making enough contact and could be allowing that bass string pressure to pull the bridge slightly further to the bass side than a full-sized screw would allow? Just an odd observation; I could be totally off-base.

"Am I enough of a freak to be worth paying to see?"- Separated Out (Marillion)

NEW band Old band

 

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I certainly don't want to contradict anything noted above (especially not Kuru's awesome detailed instructions!) but I had a thought...

Dangerous, I know.

 

In the picture of the bridge, the screw on the bass side of the bridge looks like it might be a different size than the other two screws. Could it be that if a smaller screw was used there, it's not making enough contact and could be allowing that bass string pressure to pull the bridge slightly further to the bass side than a full-sized screw would allow? Just an odd observation; I could be totally off-base.

 

 

The two height adjustment screws should be UNDER the bridge so you would not be able to tell what the diameter of the screw head is, just the size of the hole in the bridge. The screw is larger than the hole, that's how it holds the bridge up.

The single screw near the endpin is on TOP of the bridge and is the only screw holding the bridge in place. If another screw is on top too, it shouldn't be.

 

That might explain the discrepency. I just clicked Picker's link to the photo twice and could not get it to load this time. Now I am curious!

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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  • 2 weeks later...
That'd make a fantastic slide guitar!

 

If it'll fit this way (I believe that it's a flat piece of wood simply lying on a flat piece of metal, attached by a small screw and further held down in place by the strings), try flipping that wooden bridge-saddle around 180°- switching bass-side to treble-side, 'n' vice-verse; I think it may have just been reversed by someone!

 

If that doesn't work, either replace the saddle with another wooden (or other material) saddle piece- direct drop-in replacements are cheap (just Google search for "Danelectro Rosewood Replacement Bridge Saddle"); Allparts has 'em, maybe others, maybe a little minimal sanding/filing/shallow notch-cutting might be required, maybe not even- or maybe even just carefully cut some new notches in the old saddle.

 

Take another look at the photo, Sir Caevan. The saddle has rounded ends on the side facing the end pin. That is correct, all Danos have that same saddle.

 

There isn't much "pull down" force on the saddle from the strings unless you shimmed the neck way back and could raise the front of the saddle higher. Notches have a tendency to allow the strings to pop out if the guitar is more or less stock. We still havent heard if the neck can be moved up or down?

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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The picture opens for me. I don't know why it's not opening for you guys.

Sane here. I meant, same here. You know I'm not sane here. Lying typo....

 

So, how'ya makin' out there?

 

Does it seem to actually be the bolt-on neck having shifted? The more I look at that photo, the more strongly I suspect that; the strings appear to line up perfectly with the pickups and the pickguard- and in another of your posted photos above, there appears to be a bit of a gab on the bass-side in the neck-pocket.

 

I see that KuruPrionz had largely the same thoughts, above...

 

Loosen the strings a bit, then partially loosen the pair of bolts a little, and then loosen the third single bolt just a little. Carefully, firmly and smoothly but not violently, pull the neck sideways too the treble-side, to see if the neck shifts and aligns better with the strings. If so, GOOD- then re-tighten the one bolt, then the other two, being careful not to move the neck out of alignment again, then re-tune and have at it, Slidemaestro Flash. Play it pretty for Atlantis- and Neptune. Neptune, New Jersey, that is...

 

EDIT:

Take another look at the photo, Sir Caevan. The saddle has rounded ends on the side facing the end pin. That is correct, all Danos have that same saddle.

 

There isn't much "pull down" force on the saddle from the strings unless you shimmed the neck way back and could raise the front of the saddle higher. Notches have a tendency to allow the strings to pop out if the guitar is more or less stock. We still havent heard if the neck can be moved up or down?

 

I see!

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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No, the neck hasn't shifted, and hasn't enough space to shift it into a more playable position. It's a cheap guitar that was put together badly at the factory. Probably, it will work fine as a slide guitar, not so much played in the usual way, unless I relocate the bridge. And relocating the bridge will undoubtedly devalue it on the vintage market.

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

 

 

 

 

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And relocating the bridge will undoubtedly devalue it on the vintage market.

 

While that is true, the bridge being in the wrong place does devalue it in the vintage market as well.

 

If you have the case with the tube amp and it is working that combination is the most valuable that this particular guitar can be, if the bridge is located correctly.

Without the case and with the mis-aligned bridge it can be a fun, great sounding slide guitar but it isn't particularly collectable or valuable.

 

The photos do indicate that it is in very nice shape, at least the parts that i can see.

 

It's your guitar, I am not going to try and make a decision for you. If it were my guitar I would have moved the bridge already.

 

Have you fired it up? Do you like the tone? I LOVE my U-1, it really sounds great.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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It sounds really good. I'll probably send it to the guy who replaced the buttons on the Rickenbacker tuners. IF anybody can reposition the bridge without making a hack job of it, it's him.

Always remember that you are unique. Just like everyone else.

 

 

 

 

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It sounds really good. I'll probably send it to the guy who replaced the buttons on the Rickenbacker tuners. IF anybody can reposition the bridge without making a hack job of it, it's him.

 

 

Yeah, the double pickup ones with both pickups going are pretty sweet, a lot of different shades of tone just by moving your picking hand. The old lipstick pickups are a special sound.

 

You've got a good tech, he'll make it perfect. While it's there, consider getting the frets leveled, crowned and polished if it isn't too spendy.

Then you can just lower the bridge and play it regular too.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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It sounds really good. I'll probably send it to the guy who replaced the buttons on the Rickenbacker tuners. IF anybody can reposition the bridge without making a hack job of it, it's him.

 

 

+1 I made that suggestion on your "Aw Crud" thread... :thu:

Take care, Larryz
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It sounds really good. I'll probably send it to the guy who replaced the buttons on the Rickenbacker tuners. IF anybody can reposition the bridge without making a hack job of it, it's him.

 

 

Yeah, the double pickup ones with both pickups going are pretty sweet, a lot of different shades of tone just by moving your picking hand. The old lipstick pickups are a special sound.

 

You've got a good tech, he'll make it perfect. While it's there, consider getting the frets leveled, crowned and polished if it isn't too spendy.

Then you can just lower the bridge and play it regular too.

Excellent suggestion...

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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I would guess that there was a mistake made on a jig at the factory and quite a few got out before the error was corrected.

I've had a fair number of Danos and Silvertones in my hands and I've never seen it.

 

I know that things got pretty dire there before they went out of business.

 

That one looks in great condition, being not quite playable is probably a factor. Price seems a bit high, oh well.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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Wow, that is pretty bad! The fretboard dots should be centered between the 3rd and 4th strings. Though it does give lots of room for finger-vibrato on the 1st/High-E string!

 

If that is more or less the same way that your guitar is, picker, then, yeah, it's caused by the bridge-plate location being off center; it's very clear in that photo on Reverb.

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Looks like the same problem as your guitar Picker...I hope you didn't have to pay $730 bucks for it as a player. I think they are just collectors items to look at these days unless you move the bridge. You may have to use the slant the slide technique LOL! :thu:
Take care, Larryz
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