Toto: Wrecking Crew of the 80's and 90's?

[Sundown]

Hey all,

 

I knew a guy growing up that claimed that most of the hits heard on the radio had a Toto connection. Lukather, Paich, and the Porcaro brothers have a long list of session credits, but when I dig into some of those credits, I'm not seeing a key contribution. In other words, I see credits on AllMusic, etc., but when I look up the individual songs, I don't necessarily see the same names. I know they had a big connection to Michael Jackson.

 

The band can definitely play... I don't think you would find a tighter rhythm section, though both Jeff and Mike Porcaro have passed away. Both Paich and Steve Porcaro are very capable keyboard players.

 

P.S. The reference to "Wrecking Crew" is the group of session musicians that played on iconic records of the 60's. There is a great documentary about them on Netflix.

 

[Mark Schmieder]

Yeah, they were everywhere. And that was before Toto; they formed that band to have more control over the music rather than always just be session musicians on someone else's record. But they were realistic that it might not be their main bread and butter. Funny how that worked out!

 

Toto never stayed in one place; they were always evolving musically. I think that was part of why the musicians in the band didn't want to give up their session work, in case tastes changed and they couldn't keep up. :-)

 

Paich's father was one of my favourite jazz producers of the 50's/60's. Marty Paich did some amazing arrangements for Mel Torme. He probably had the most connections going into the project.

 

Not sure why their session credits aren't showing up. My recollection is that Lukather is on more records than any guitarist?

[MAJUSCULE]

Oh yeah, they were all over the place. Kings of LA. Check out the credits on Thriller.

[Sven Golly]

Not sure why their session credits aren't showing up. My recollection is that Lukather is on more records than any guitarist?

 

That's Jimmy Page, by most accounts.

 

Luke definitely has an incredible list of credits, though.

 

[CEB]

I thought that was Brent Mason. But maybe only Nashville records count in that tally.

[Song80s]

Hey all,

 

.

P.S. The reference to "Wrecking Crew" is the group of session musicians that played on iconic records of the 60's. There is a great documentary about them on Netflix.

 

I picked up on that reference when working out a Glen Campbell song

 

Will have to dig up the Netflix doc. Thanks

[Sven Golly]

Hey all,

 

I knew a guy growing up that claimed that most of the hits heard on the radio had a Toto connection. Lukather, Paich, and the Porcaro brothers have a long list of session credits, but when I dig into some of those credits, I'm not seeing a key contribution. In other words, I see credits on AllMusic, etc., but when I look up the individual songs, I don't necessarily see the same names. I know they had a big connection to Michael Jackson.

 

If you're suggesting that you see Lukather listed on Allmusic.com as guitarist of note on "Billie Jean" for example, but when you look at "Billie Jean" he's not shown, that could simply be missing data on Allmusic.com.

 

Allmusic is a good, but by no means infallible, source.

 

[Sundown]

Will have to dig up the Netflix doc. Thanks

 

It's a great documentary. It's amazing how many records they were on, and how many legendary licks and sounds came from those players.

[Sven Golly]

I thought that was Brent Mason. But maybe only Nashville records count in that tally.

 

Yeah, depends on the context; could be Glen Campbell, given his work with the aforementioned Wrecking Crew. Could be Larry Coryell.

 

Page has appeared on literally thousands of recordings, many without proper credit given.

[Mark Schmieder]

I saw the Wrecking Crew documentary in a pre-screening at the AES Show a number of years ago, but don't know whether the film others have seen is the same edit as what I watched -- it was still more or less in a crowd funding stage at that point.

 

I too was surprised to learn that Glen Campbell was part of that gang, and that he was shy about singing until others eventually pushed him to consider a solo artist career.

[Justin Havu]

If you're suggesting that you see Lukather listed on Allmusic.com as guitarist of note on "Billie Jean" for example, but when you look at "Billie Jean" he's not shown, that could simply be missing data on Allmusic.com.

 

Allmusic is a good, but by no means infallible, source.

 

Just checked the liner notes of the vinyl release of Thriller. David Williams is credited for guitars on "Billie Jean." Luke isn't on this track.

[drawback]

Whenever I think of Toto as session players I think of Boz Scaggs' Middle Man, specifically Jojo - to me it's a masterpiece.

 

 

[Nordude]

Paich and Jeff did their Steely Dan-thing in the seventies (granted: Gaucho = 1980). Does a Steely Dan-credit in itself qualify for some sort of a 'Wrecking Crew' status? I'd say so.

 

Monsters.

[BRW]

At least Jeff Porcaro, David Paich and Lukather played and wrote on a ton of sessions of the time. In my mind, they're definitely a key ingredient in the 80's "L.A. sound" I love so much. They (well, at least Jeff Porcaro) also recorded lots in Japan for Japanese AOR artists, produced by guys like David Foster and Jay Graydon!

 

I wouldn't say that they were a "wrecking crew" in that same sense, it was more like they were hired guns by the top honchos like Foster, Graydon, Quincy, Arif Martin etc. Also, they didn't do the sessions as a "band".

 

Check out Jeff's sessionography and start hunting! Anything with a Porcaro drum track is worth your while Link

[BRW]

Whenever I think of Toto as session players I think of Boz Scaggs' Middle Man, specifically Jojo - to me it's a masterpiece.

 

 

"Jojo" is an amazing track.

[TommyRude]

People love to compare musicians from different eras, different cities, different crews, they do similar comparisons with athletes from different eras. And people love leaderboards too, who recorded the most records, who sold the most, who hit the most home runs, scored the most touchdowns. Its just human nature to want to score and compare I guess.

 

I prefer to look at these musicians as talented legendary icons, whose imprints on music and popular culture will be remembered forever.

[Mitch Towne]

I HIGHLY recommend "The Gospel According to Luke," the autobiography of Steve Lukather. It is a fantastic look into the last great era of session musicians. And yeah, the members of Toto had a huge hand in a ton of hits from the late 70s through the 90s.

 

And, with regards to Thriller, "Beat It," is all Steve Lukather and Jeff Poraoro with Eddie Van Halen playing the solo. And "Human Nature" is Michael Jackson with Toto. The song was written by Steve Porcaro from Toto.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

Not sure why their session credits aren't showing up. My recollection is that Lukather is on more records than any guitarist?

 

That's Jimmy Page, by most accounts.

Shh, don't say that too loud -- Pete Townshend might hear you, and he gets real surly about it.

[Bobadohshe]

I always refer to them that way when I'm describing their impact and who they are to the layperson for the first time. Though the LA scene was much bigger by then and there were plenty of sessions that had nothing to do with them. But they were all PART of and titans in that scene along with loads of others.

 

Good place to say that Lukather's autobiography from 2 years ago is must read. Actually must listen - I did the audio book and he reads it himself. It's truly amazing.

[KuruPrionz]

Not particularly important to me but Tommy Tedesco had quite the track record, also film scores etc., during the heyday of the LA scene.

 

It's been maybe 4-5 years ago but I saw Toto in concert. High point for me by far was Leland Sklar on bass, an amazing player.

 

Steve Lukather took an overly long wank-fest solo that really didn't go anywhere. Great studio player beyond any doubt. No Jeff Beck by any means.

 

Africa and Rosanna were really good, I could have missed the rest of it and not minded much. In the end, it's the songs that matter and mostly, their's didn't - at least not to me.

[ABECK]

Leland Sklar is one of those guys that's been on album after album from the 70s till now. He may well have bridged various wrecking crews over the decades.

[marczellm]

Leland Sklar's Youtube channel is golden. He goes from James Taylor through Carole King, Phil Collins, Barbra Streisand, Bette Midler, Rod Stewart, Toto, a whole bunch of Mike Post TV themes, to some absolutely wonderful music you've never heard about, and then some more.

He was part of 'The Section' which was James Taylor's backing band, then Jackson Browne's, then everyone else's in the songwriter movement, then they recorded 3 jazz fusion albums under that name (!) and nowadays 4 of those guys formed the Immediate Family and they play songs from all over their careers. So The Section could be said to have been the next Wrecking Crew. But he says the main differences are that the Crew had 10-12 years together only in the studio, while the Section also toured with many of those artists, and is still playing together after what, 4 decades?

[ABECK]

Agreed - his vids are absolute golden. I highly recommend checking them out. Stories of studio and stage...playing along with his hits and obscure cuts....rants about landscapers....and above all, an amazing display of humility.

 

[video:youtube]

[pinkfloydcramer]

[video:youtube]

 

Toto demo'ing Human Nature. Quincy Jones liked it so much he hired them to back MJ on the album cut (IMO it would have been better without MJ).

[Doerfler]

Toto demo'ing Human Nature. Quincy Jones liked it so much he hired them to back MJ on the album cut (IMO it would have been better without MJ).

 

sales would have been less, first things first

[MAJUSCULE]

Let's be clear, they were already pitching a bunch of tunes and doing a bunch of tracking for Thriller. Steve Porcaro wrote the song and it was stuck at the end of one of the pitch tapes Q received, as an afterthought. Quincy was unmoved by most of the material they were seriously pitching, but thankfully, he let the tape play all the way and found a hook that completely haunted him and single-handedly kicked "Carousel", an excellent Mike Sembello track, off the record. No room for two of these "mood songs" on the one album, as Quincy says. I'm obviously paraphrasing, you can hear it in his own words on the 25th anniversary interviews.

[Docbop]

Quincy is one of the old school producers who let the rhythm section find a groove and let them build the foundation as a unit. If that doesn't work then juggle the players try again, but once Quincy had a rhythm track he liked it was all Quincy and Michael from that point on. There used to me some of Michaels old tapes online he'd make where he created arrangements for tunes singing every part into a portable recorder. It was amazing to me how much of the arrangements came from Michael then Quincy writing out and together they polished them.

[AnotherScott]

sales would have been less, first things first

hard to be sure... Toto's Africa released around the same time was a much bigger seller than Human Nature, so it's not like Toto wasn't capable of those numbers. Though if you're comparing album sales, well, yeah, Thriller is a whole other ball game!

 

Let's be clear, they were already pitching a bunch of tunes and doing a bunch of tracking for Thriller. Steve Porcaro wrote the song and it was stuck at the end of one of the pitch tapes Q received, as an afterthought. Quincy was unmoved by most of the material they were seriously pitching, but thankfully, he let the tape play all the way and found a hook that completely haunted him and single-handedly kicked "Carousel", an excellent Mike Sembello track, off the record. No room for two of these "mood songs" on the one album, as Quincy says. I'm obviously paraphrasing, you can hear it in his own words on the 25th anniversary interviews.

And here's Steve Porcaro's telling of it. The song was actually on the flip side of the cassette and not intended for Quincy's ears, but through the serendpity of a cassette deck that had auto-reverse...

 

[Mark Schmieder]

I'm so used to the Miles Davis version that nothing else sounds good to me anymore. Those are unusually raw and uninspired guide vocals on the demo tape. I'm not even a very big fan of MJ's voice but would take his version over the demo.

[AnotherScott]

I'm so used to the Miles Davis version that nothing else sounds good to me anymore. Those are unusually raw and uninspired guide vocals on the demo tape. I'm not even a very big fan of MJ's voice but would take his version over the demo.

Well, it was just a demo (and I think a one-man demo at that). Steve Porcaro doesn't really claim to be a vocalist and almost certainly would not have sung the song if Toto had released it. If you want to hear how Toto would have actually performed it, you can get a bit of a better idea form this...