Al Quinn Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 This keyboard is calling me. It seems it might be closest to the all-in-one lightweight keyboard I"ve been looking for. It would replace my Electro 4D, which falls far short for me. From what I"ve heard so far the B3 will likely need the help of B-3X or HX-3 to satisfy my needs, but that"s fine since I have both. The big question for me is the action and if it"s comfortable for playing piano. I checked the local GC but unfortunately they don"t have it on the floor yet. I"m in no hurry. I can wait. Quote https://alquinn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenheeter Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Al, I've had mine for a month or so and after owning several Electros and a Stage Compact I have to say that this is the best waterfall keyboard I have played for acoustic and electric piano playing. It took me a little while to get used to it but I'm really enjoying playing on it. The organ is very good, the rotary sim needs some work and I hope they will implement high trigger for organ but all around, the more I play it the more I like it. Now, if I could just get a couple of gigs....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 For some reason we have to have multiple YC61 threads, so I'll reprise some of my comments from the other thread. Responding to Al's question, I think the YC is much better for playing pianos than the Electro, mainly due to the action, which is smoother. less fatiguing, and more conducive to playing with dynamics. To my mind, the piano-friendly action is one of the main things elevating the YC over the Electro as an all-in-one, and even allows it to give the Nord Compact a run for it's money notwithstanding that the Compact costs a lot more. Yamaha's "Honey, I shrunk the keyboard"-sized keys will annoy some people more than others. For me, it's an easy adjustment. There's been a lot of negative comments about the YC's Leslie sim. It's certainly not the greatest, and I'm hoping a future OS will improve on it. Yamaha is certainly aware of the griping. That said, a lot of the "worst ever" type comments have not resonated with me. I suppose if I listened really closely I might be more bothered by the weirdness some people are describing. But I never felt the need to listen that closely because to my ears it sounds pretty decent, even at fast speed. For any situation where I really care how organ sounds, I'll plug in B3X. Easy to do and significantly better than anything else available to me. I think my biggest disappointment with the YC is the lack of high trigger for organ. Disappointing mainly because they easily could have done this right but chose not to. But is it a serious impediment to busting out organ chops? Nah. I look forward to EscapeRock's MPN review. With his impressive software proficiency, he's a good man for the job of reviewing a keyboard that features easy software integration. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 this is the best waterfall keyboard I have played for acoustic and electric piano playing. To my mind, the piano-friendly action is one of the main things elevating the YC over the Electro as an all-in-one Sounds like the YC61 and the Vox Continental may be the boards of choice if you must play piano from a non-hammer action. (Though the Vox does have a significant advantage for piano use in being available as a 73.) Has anyone here had the opportunity to play both of them and cmpare their actions? Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawelsz Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 MeX prefers Vox action over YC61 action for piano playing. EDIT: I'm often playing my Reface CP from FA-07 keybed (with some velocity curve adjustments in FA because Reface keybed is super light). It is quite good, too. I tried Hammond XK-1c as a controller once. Too stiff, too springy for me, but the keys are longer than in FA. So Fatar TP9S is much more friendly than TP8O for piano playing despite having shorter pivot length. Quote Yamaha P-515, Korg SV-2 73, Kurzweil PC4-7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Has anyone here had the opportunity to play both of them and cmpare their actions? I have. They're both very good, I'm not sure I could pick one over the other without somehow controlling for other variables such as the quality of the sounds triggered. That would take a careful side-by-side experiment that I can't do. My impression is the YC feels a little smoother and dynamics more controllable, but they're both at the high end of the scale so it's a small degree of distinction. I'd prefer to have Korg's standard size keys. The YC action is very quiet, while the Korg's is loud and clacky due to body construction. The quieter keyboard helps me keep peace with my wife so I can practice more, so for that very personal reason I'd have to go with the YC. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konaboy Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 anybody played the YC with leslie sim switched off for that Auger sound? how did it hold up "naked"? Quote hang out with me at woody piano shack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 I look forward to EscapeRock's MPN review. With his impressive software proficiency, he's a good man for the job of reviewing a keyboard that features easy software integration. Oh sure... pressure's on now :) Quote David Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleer Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Has anyone here had the opportunity to play both of them and cmpare their actions? I have. They're both very good, I'm not sure I could pick one over the other without somehow controlling for other variables such as the quality of the sounds triggered. That would take a careful side-by-side experiment that I can't do. My impression is the YC feels a little smoother and dynamics more controllable, but they're both at the high end of the scale so it's a small degree of distinction. I'd prefer to have Korg's standard size keys. The YC action is very quiet, while the Korg's is loud and clacky due to body construction. The quieter keyboard helps me keep peace with my wife so I can practice more, so for that very personal reason I'd have to go with the YC. Checked both as well, preferring the Vox overall, also for smoothness and dynamics (with the dedicated knob). Best waterfall keys in my book. As for the sounds, most of them are Kronos-derived, but I wouldn"t want to miss out on that NuTube. And I guess those 73 keys are most essential to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Oh sure... pressure's on now :) no pressure dude, just do what you do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogs Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 anybody played the YC with leslie sim switched off for that Auger sound? how did it hold up "naked"? I feel you can get closer to the Auger type of sound with the sim turned to 'stop' rather than 'off'.... That leaves the YC61 rotary pre-amp in circuit - with it's quite dramatic e.q - and all it's adjustable 'growls' and 'crunchiness' (for want of better words). H1 especially - without the rotary preamp - is a bit too 'clinical' for that type of sound... Quote Yamaha - YC61 - P105 - MOX6 - HC2 -- Neo Vent 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wineandkeyz Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 David, how wide are the keys on the YC-61? Is an octave the same width as your other boards? I've had a couple of Yamaha's semi-weighted boards in the past (ES7, XF7) and the keys were narrower than typical -- something like an octave was 3/8" or so narrower than a similar Roland action, for instance. It shouldn't have made a huge difference, but I always stumbled over parts I could play on other boards. Quote Live: Yamaha S70XS (#1); Roland Jupiter-80; Mackie 1202VLZ4: IEMs or Traynor K4 Home: Hammond SK Pro 73; Moog Minimoog Voyager Electric Blue; Yamaha S70XS (#2); Wurlitzer 200A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Right, that topic always comes up with Yamaha because their synth actions tend to have slightly narrower keys (15.9cm octave or 21mm per key). Typically on modern pianos we see 16.4-16.5cm is the length of an octave. Yamaha follows this on their weighted action keyboards (16.4cm octave or 22mm per key). Does anyone know the width of an octave on an actual Hammond organ? How does it compare to the Fatar TP-8O we see on most of the clones? Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 David, how wide are the keys on the YC-61? Is an octave the same width as your other boards? I've had a couple of Yamaha's semi-weighted boards in the past (ES7, XF7) and the keys were narrower than typical -- something like an octave was 3/8" or so narrower than a similar Roland action, for instance. It shouldn't have made a huge difference, but I always stumbled over parts I could play on other boards. The YC keys line up exactly with the keys of my MX49, which I think are also the same as the MODX (?). I don't find this a big problem. I liken it to switching from one surfboard or one set of skis to another. It feels awkward for a couple minutes and then you physically adjust. But some people will say that adjusting to different keywidths is something they'd rather avoid, and that's valid. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 David, how wide are the keys on the YC-61? Is an octave the same width as your other boards? I've had a couple of Yamaha's semi-weighted boards in the past (ES7, XF7) and the keys were narrower than typical -- something like an octave was 3/8" or so narrower than a similar Roland action, for instance. It shouldn't have made a huge difference, but I always stumbled over parts I could play on other boards. The YC keys line up exactly with the keys of my MX49, which I think are also the same as the MODX (?). I don't find this a big problem. I liken it to switching from one surfboard or one set of skis to another. It feels awkward for a couple minutes and then you physically adjust. But some people will say that adjusting to different keywidths is something they'd rather avoid, and that's valid. That makes sense and follows Yamaha's designs. So YC has a 15.9cm octave or 21mm per key. It has never bothered me in playing on Yamaha synths. On the high quality actions, like we find in the Montage 7 - I more quickly notice the better feeling movement and response of the mechanism itself. We can get used to anything we practice on pretty quickly - mini keyboards included. If you're a concert pianist and you're trying to execute heavily practiced virtuosic passages, you may find the cheat of a mm annoying. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt W Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Does anyone know the width of an octave on an actual Hammond organ? How does it compare to the Fatar TP-8O we see on most of the clones? The Fatar TP8O is the same width as a Hammond. Confirmed by measuring on my B3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 I'll get out a measuring tape later. Like Adan says about it matching his MX49, the keys also line up exactly with my MODX6. I've never had an issue playing this size keys. Quote David Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Not counting minikeys of various typed, AFAIK, every keyboard in production has the same white key width (negligible variation if any), except for Yamaha's non-hammer keys which are a bit narrower. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wineandkeyz Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 David, how wide are the keys on the YC-61? Is an octave the same width as your other boards? I've had a couple of Yamaha's semi-weighted boards in the past (ES7, XF7) and the keys were narrower than typical -- something like an octave was 3/8" or so narrower than a similar Roland action, for instance. It shouldn't have made a huge difference, but I always stumbled over parts I could play on other boards. The YC keys line up exactly with the keys of my MX49, which I think are also the same as the MODX (?). I don't find this a big problem. I liken it to switching from one surfboard or one set of skis to another. It feels awkward for a couple minutes and then you physically adjust. But some people will say that adjusting to different keywidths is something they'd rather avoid, and that's valid. That makes sense and follows Yamaha's designs. So YC has a 15.9cm octave or 21mm per key. It has never bothered me in playing on Yamaha synths. On the high quality actions, like we find in the Montage 7 - I more quickly notice the better feeling movement and response of the mechanism itself. We can get used to anything we practice on pretty quickly - mini keyboards included. If you're a concert pianist and you're trying to execute heavily practiced virtuosic passages, you may find the cheat of a mm annoying. If it works for y'all, more power to you. I just found it to be a distraction in a multiple-keyboard rig when one keyboard is noticeably narrower than the others. It's annoying enough to me to pass on the YC. Quote Live: Yamaha S70XS (#1); Roland Jupiter-80; Mackie 1202VLZ4: IEMs or Traynor K4 Home: Hammond SK Pro 73; Moog Minimoog Voyager Electric Blue; Yamaha S70XS (#2); Wurlitzer 200A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Motif Max Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 I play Roland, Yamaha, and Korg keyboards regularly (plus a Kurzweil now), and all semi-weighted variants from each brand. I really never notice. I have big hands so theoretically it should annoy the crap out of me, but I don't notice at all. Quote Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000 Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyray Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 IMO the keys are not for a really aggressive player but for someone that plays a cover band that maybe ok. Same old song and dance night after night. Haven't seen any live big acts using the yc 61 but whatever is best for your needs. Talent is being a natural player not just a over the top computer geek which sounds really stale. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 As we all know - the player makes the music not the instrument. A great player can make any decent instrument sing. And in context of a pop rock cover act using sample based instruments internally or from MainStage to replicate parts - controller functionality is as important as anything. Besides, the YC-61 has only been shipping since July of this year and there certainly has been a reduction in the amount of gigs and shows where one might catch a listen at the moment. Hitting price point like Roland with the VR-09 - it"s cheaply made and has arguably one of the worst short key length synth actions in production yet they sold tons of them and (prior to Covid) I saw it everywhere doing dirty work. Kurzweil has been making amazing digital instruments for years but they can"t compete with endorsements and product placement efforts with Yamaha or Roland. Nord is a smaller company punching above its weight - they hit a nerve with simple user interface, red case and bread and butter sounds. Anyway, it"s great to get feedback here from a lot of people who have had their hands on instruments before making a purchase. But nothing will tell us more than sitting down at a new model ourselves and seeing if the instrument speaks to us or does the job we need from it. YMMV On a side note: Jim Alfredson (who I think we can all agree is a gifted player) got to play the YC-61 at NAMM 2020. He didn't like the YC action for organ at all. But you have to dig in the original YC thread to find out why (I suspect lack of high trigger point is part of it). The caveat being that he is an Hammond endorsed player. But I'm certain he was being honest about his opinion. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 IMO the keys are not for a really aggressive player but for someone that plays a cover band that maybe ok. Same old song and dance night after night. Haven't seen any live big acts using the yc 61 but whatever is best for your needs. Talent is being a natural player not just a over the top computer geek which sounds really stale. JMO So you've played the YC61 and didn't like it? I bought the YC61 to replace my VR09, which got tons of use even though it was far from the best equipment I owned. If I had a Subaru and an Alfa Romeo in my garage, the Sooby would get more mileage. No, I don't think of the YC as a "big show" keyboard. But who knows. If you're flying in, it might be just the thing. By the way, I'm jealous that you've seen a lot of live big acts this summer. Apparently I've been living under a rock. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 Blake is going to Livestream on 9/3 https://facebook.com/events/s/yamaha-yc61-livestream-with-bl/326673868535391/?ti=icl Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted August 31, 2020 Author Share Posted August 31, 2020 Blake is going to Livestream on 9/3 https://facebook.com/events/s/yamaha-yc61-livestream-with-bl/326673868535391/?ti=icl Cool thanks for heads up I am finding a ton of good, in-depth how to's from Yamaha and others on YouTube. They are great sources when I hit a wall. As you know. all my stuff is learn by doing. I just start hitting all the buttons on the YC61 to see what it does As I said earlier, I am taking notes for the MPN review, as well as to give VST incorporation assistance. On that topic, I do want to say that while the YC61 can get deep in controlling out board gear and DAW/VST, if you are not yet totally comfortable with your DAW/VST, you WILL get frustrated. I have found that true to their marketing, this is designed as a performance keyboard (and does a very good job). However, unlike Roland's VR-09/730, Yamaha give the YC61 the capability to be a controller and receive program change <<--- that the huge one for me... Again, remember, my knowledge of VST and DAW (Mainstage and GP) is all self-taught, with tips and tricks gather from here and some touring pros who've taken the time to help me. Alluding to the above: If I wasn't at the level I am today with using controllers for Mainstage/GigPerformer, there's no way I'd get this setup well. Example: Yamaha only list MSB/LSB for the factory sets. If you don't know MIDI, it will take you a while to deduce the floe of MSB/LSB/PC for the rest. Hint, Live Set page 10, Program 1 is: MSB 63 LSB 9 PC 0. After staring at their MIDI Spec for a minute I then realized that the first user Live Set Page 11 Program 1 would be MSB63 LSB 10, PC 0, etc.... Quote David Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted August 31, 2020 Author Share Posted August 31, 2020 IMO the keys are not for a really aggressive player but for someone that plays a cover band that maybe ok. Same old song and dance night after night. I've been playing Argent, Steppenwolf (Magic Carpet..) on it. Seems fine to me. Talent is being a natural player not just a over the top computer geek which sounds really stale. JMO Are you saying that those of us who incorporate computers into our rigs are not as talented as those who dont? So, guys like David Rosenthal, Steve Porcaro, Greg Phillinganes, Eric Levy, Christian Matthew-Cullen, Eric Senner, and the list goes on and on... all have hardware and software hybrid rigs on tour. Quote David Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT156 Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 if you like the VR09 but just wish it was better, this is it. I think that's a nice sum-up. You do unfortunately lose the VA synth, but in pretty much every other way, it seems like a better implementation of the concept. I've said it once and I'll say it again; if Yammy manage to add a full editable FM synth to this (even in an app) it could fly off the shelves. I don't think so. Some of us couldn't care less about FM. And on an instrument that is designed to be an ORGAN? NAH. Mike T. Quote Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Talent is being a natural player not just a over the top computer geek which sounds really stale. JMO That´s a statement I´d expect to read from "blues guitarists" and not keyboardplayers. Aren´t you aware there´s a small computer running some "software" inside your "hardware" keyboards and FX since decades ? Not to forget to mention, these "small" computers grew up since decades too. Where do you live ? In the stone ages ? Do you really think all the stuff we can do comes off the top of one's head or on a gut level ? A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 if you like the VR09 but just wish it was better, this is it. I think that's a nice sum-up. You do unfortunately lose the VA synth, but in pretty much every other way, it seems like a better implementation of the concept. I've said it once and I'll say it again; if Yammy manage to add a full editable FM synth to this (even in an app) it could fly off the shelves. I don't think so. Some of us couldn't care less about FM. And on an instrument that is designed to be an ORGAN? NAH. Mike T. It"s not designed to be an organ clone - it"s a Swiss Army knife gigging board with drawbar controllers like an organ. Competes with Roland VR-09/730 and Nord Electro D, Hammond SK1 which is similar to the Mojo61 and I guess the Nord Stage Compact can get thrown into the mix too. YC price is higher than the Roland - but the build and action is better. Roland has a programmable Synth though (accessible through iPad app). The YC has an FM synthesis engine that currently users don"t have similar access to. That"s unfortunate as FM is very capable - it can sound like a lot more than a DX piano (think DX, SY, Montage synths patches). If the synth engine is taken more seriously by Yamaha it is definitely a strong differentiator from the Nord Electro and Hammond SK. Has Pitch and mod controllers like the Roland. Yamaha may want to address offering high trigger point on the organ engine. Nord Electro D is similarly priced to the YC. Build is generally thought of as good with aluminum body. The Electro doesn"t have a synth engine at all. Just a simple sample player with basic ADSR functions. The YC has more internal sounds, but the Nord can swap sounds from their sample library. No Pitch and mod wheel. Hammond SK Im less familiar with. Perhaps has the strongest organ section of the three. Or at least on par with the Nord engine. Maybe the Nord has a better internal Leslie simulation. But has the smallest sound list of the three. I hear you can load a few more from the Hammond website. If they"re good, sometimes the right sounds are better than a bunch you don"t use. Also no synth engine. Also no Pitch and mod wheel. Crumar Mojo 61 - probably most similar features wise to the Electro and Hammond SK. They eliminated the Synth engine from the Gemini modules. Focused on adding bread and butter sounds via samples. Also no Pitch and mod controllers. For all around Swiss Army function - the Nord Stage Compact includes the strongest synth section - they did include Pitch and mod wheel. Really extensive sample library with most anything you might need plus tools for user samples. High trigger point in the organ section. Personally I hate the action for playing pianos though - same as the Electro. Price is $1600 over the YC-61. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 hey Elmer, any thoughts on the Korg Vox Continental? No drawbars, drawbuttons like the Nord Electro( thousands of pages on that topic) but Kronos quality sounds in a lightweight all in one board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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