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Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
#3059955 08/26/20 05:19 PM
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Other than budget or spouse that is. I've been buying instruments for over 40 years and cringe to think of the stuff I have bought and traded away. Saturday I ordered an Ibanez TMB35, a short scale 5 string that is only $250. Yesterday I canceled the order after finding out how hard it is to get decent strings for a short scale 5 string. Thinking back, that was a good thing. I've decided to self impose two rules for purchasing musical instruments.

1. For every item that comes in, two have to go out. If I want a new guitar: bass, electric or acoustic, I have to either sell or give away two. I have too much stuff. I don't need more items, I need more quality.

2. Any item I buy has to be at least as good as my best item of that type. I already have an Ibanez SR1405. Why make such a huge step down in quality? Yes the TMB35 is short scale, but could I really be happy with a $250 bass after playing $1400+ instruments? Just another item to stick in the closet.

There will be exceptions, like guitar pedals. Seriously, you cannot have too many guitar pedals. And they are small. Maybe a limit on how many duplicates. But, you have to keep it real.


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Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
RABid #3059956 08/26/20 05:41 PM
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The only self-imposed purchasing rule I ever had was when I was spending most of my time touring, and stuff would get stolen. The rule was that any stolen item had to be replaced with something better.

Nowadays, the main constraint is deciding whether I want something, or need something. If it's need, out comes the credit card. If it's want, I think long and hard about it, and usually pass.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
RABid #3059960 08/26/20 06:00 PM
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First rule is that I can't have one like it already. It's not that I'm against upgrading a piece of gear, but if it works and I don't have a need for an upgrade, I restrain myself. It has to justify itself to me for other reasons than it has the latest hardware so it sounds a tiny bit better that what it might replace. Another rule is that I hardly ever sell anything, so I won't buy a $2,000 mic preamp thinking that I'll be able to sell something to cover it. Nope, cash only for new gadgets.

Example: I have an assortment of computer audio interfaces, none newer than about 5 years, the Mackie 1220 compact mixer with a Firewire interface goes back to 2004, the 1200F going back to 2007. I've been wanting a portable decent quality USB interface, one with at least 4 mic inputs and 4 monitor outputs, but then I ask myself:
"Self, what do you use to record in the field right now?" and the answer is almost always:
"A handheld TASCAM DR44WL or the small tabletop Korg MR-1000."
"What do you do with your recordings?"
"Maybe learn a tune or two, then delete the recording. Who wants to listen to all that chaos anyway?"

What about concert recordings? I used to get paid for that, but no longer. So what I have is just fine, and either (the Korg supplemented by a pair of Neumann KM84s (it has no built in mics) or the TASCAM will do just fine, particularly if I'm mixing the concert or there's no sound system.

But sometimes I get curious or supportive, and then there are no rules. I recently bought a Samar AL95. I haven't had occasion to use it yet, and probably won't, at least until I can invite some people over to play. But I like the design (there's some innovative stuff in there), I like the designer, and I want to be sure that he stays in business.

I stopped buying musical instruments years ago. I have more than I play, some are very nice, some are actually valuable. And I love them all.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
RABid #3059970 08/26/20 07:23 PM
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Rule #1 is that rules are made to be broken, sometimes.

Rule #2 is to buy at a price that allows me to sell for at least what I paid and hopefully more.
Buying and selling has been an income stream for decades and continues to this day

Rule #3 is don't be a collector. The instruments I keep must serve a purpose. I do have a backup guitar for my main gigger (Franken Strat, backup is a Franken Tele), everything else is something different that creates a different sound. So, nylon string, steel string acoustic, 12 string, 8 string lap steel, semi-hollow electric, hollowbody electric, fretted 4 string bass tuned EADG, fretless 4 string bass tuned BEAD, fretless banjo, etc.
Sometimes I will get something similar if I think it will be an upgrade. A few years back I sold my beloved 1970 Martin D-35 because I stopped playing it when the Rainsong OM1000 arrived. I don't miss it, the Rainsong is a better guitar for me in all respects.

That said, I have one indulgence - an early 60's Silvertone Danelectro Dolphin Nose U-1. This is the guitar I used to stare at in the Sears catalog when I was a kid. I REALLY wanted it and since if was under $40, I knew Mom and Dad could get me one. They never did, 4 kids and a bankruptcy prevent such indulgences. We always ate, had a decent home to live in, but no guitar.
Now I have one, it took some buying and selling to get it and get the missing parts for it (try and find an unbroken Silvertone plastic logo insert for a Dolphin Nose headstock!!!!).
It's really fun to play and sounds great, I suppose I could qualify it as a "different electric guitar" but that isn't really why I got it.

Rule #4 is be flexible. Two examples - One, I had opportunities to obtain a variety of reasonably priced microphones. I got more of them than I needed. Having tried them, I now have 4 that I don't think have earned the right to stay here. Somebody else could use them, so they will go away. Example two, I bought a Presonus Eureka channel strip a while back and having used it for a few things, I realized it is a great bang-for-the-buck unit if you can get a nice one around $200 (and you can!!!!). I have space in my rack and plan to using a second one, it should be here Saturday. Bought it on the Paypal "pay it off in six months with no interest" plan. It will be easy to pay that off in the time frame.

Rule #5 is to learn from your experiences and don't get stuck in a mindset. I've played many, many gigs with tube guitar amps. I've had a few gigs where tubes have ruined my experience, tubes have a life span and they can and will fail. I am in the process of testing my tube stash, when I've got that sussed out, all the tubes and my last 2 tube amps will be sold. I've also gigged a ton with solid state gear and the more recent stuff sounds more than decent. My track record with solid state gear indicates that it is much more reliable. At a gig, the best amp is the one that works. Honestly, I hardly ever use an amp at home.

Current projects include selling a backlog of surplus stuff and trolling the thrift stores for good flips. I am doing pretty well with the backlog and found a good flip this weekend, it's cleaned up and ready to be sold.

I don't have a rule for pedals, I don't have very many and don't plan on getting any more. I don't gig with any of them, possible exception being once in great while I will use my TC Electronics Flashback X4, both as a delay and for modulation.

And, them's the rules!


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
RABid #3059971 08/26/20 07:26 PM
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My rules:

1) Do I need it or want it. In other words, will it help my career enough to cover its expense, or is it just a desire.

2) Is it worn out enough to warrant a replacement.

I've never been a gear collector. Years ago I bought gear because I wanted it and it collected dust. I decided instruments collecting dust must be sad, they want to be played, it's their purpose in 'life'.

I get joy out of playing the gear, especially gigging. I also enjoy writing aftermarket user styles for Band-in-a-Box. If the gear isn't going to get played and used, I have no use for it.

Often when I replace a piece of gear, if the old one is still usable, I'll donate it to a local organization that gives gear to students.

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Bob "Notes" Norton
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Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
RABid #3059975 08/26/20 07:49 PM
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I love and cherish my musical toys, but I really torture myself about spending money on things. I don't like to let go of stuff once I have it... so I better really want/need it, because I'll get attached. I've never had a gear purchase I've hated so much that I've thought "I will never use this again." My instinct tends to be much more "that could come in handy for something someday," much to my wife's chagrin -- she's also a musician, but she doesn't bat an eye to say something like "well, if I want a better Tele or a Strat, I can just trade in the Gretsch." In the meantime she's been trying to get us to unload the purple Squier Strat my brother got for Christmas in 2002. It's far and away the worst instrument we own, she has much better guitars, I do not play the guitar, and my brother lives in another state and hasn't played the guitar since, oh, 2004. But it has family history and what if I want a beater instrument to mess around with open tunings on? God, it's a sickness.

So this means that while there are a few basses I've lusted after over the years, my starter Beatle bass knockoff from Musician's Friend and my Mexi Fender Jazz are all I have, because I can do everything I really need to with them. The keyboards have come a lot more fast and furious, but they all do something different -- the Mojo "replaced" the Nord Electro, but now that I have a home studio it's great to have the Electro for playing sampled non-organ sounds, particularly Mellotron. When we get the A100 in the studio, the Mojo will be packed up and ready to go to gigs at all times (like my stage piano has been since we got the acoustic upright). I mostly use my Seaboard for synth stuff these days, but it's not the same thing as my Novation Ultranova, so they both stay. Obviously the Clavinet and the Wurlitzer stay. But as much as I've beat my Privia PX-3 stage piano to hell, and as sexy as a CP88 looks, the former still works, and the latter sounds like a lot of bread right now, so I won't be crossing that bridge until I have a really compelling reason.

Since we're getting the home studio together, that's where most of my gear purchases will be headed in the near future, I think, and I try to think in practical terms there, too -- you can never have too many SM57s, I suppose, but I try to think about different use cases for various condenser mic pairs and the kinds of colors I need for a simple home studio setup. Bang for buck without selling myself short. It's a balancing act. And hey... sometimes I splurge. We do the best we can. wink


Samuel B. Lupowitz
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Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
RABid #3059982 08/26/20 08:45 PM
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Don't buy something just because it is cheap (OK, sometimes someone will sell something worth more for a cheap price for whatever reason). My dad was in auto parts, my maternal grandfather was a mechanic - learned to buy GOOD tools that last instead of cheap stuff. Do have a little toolkit that was cheap in the bedroom for when I don't want to get the big (and heavy) one out of the car. Good tools will last longer than a lifetime. SnapOn didn't used to sell to the public (although they now do have an on-line store); but there are others with similar quality (like Xcelite in the electronic field, and the Craftsman tools back in the day when they were a Sears product, IDK about currently).

When buying technical products with lots of options, don't buy the "Pinto," (cheapest thing), nor the "Ferrari" (wow but really??). Get something in the upper middle. Products to be used until they need to be replaced should be bought on dollars/life, not just dollars. If the Pinto will need replacing in 2 years, the upper middle one may need replacing in 8 years; and be cheaper per year.

Don't buy "DJ" powered speakers. Low priced, but usually have a pronounced peak at some frequency that means I can't play without going mp mp mp FF mp (get the idea). OTOH, different speakers for different purposes. The big heavy ones only for something that will stay there and I don't have to move it often. As I get older and weaker this becomes more important.

I've already bought enough keyboards (and a grand piano) to WAY exceed my ability to play them. Therefore, I don't NEED another keyboard. And yes, I do have all three sizes of Kurzweil PC3. Probably wouldn't do that again, would be better to wait longer on some of them and get a later model. (But it is nice that I can backup the primary one, load it into the other two, and all three have the same sounds and setups in the same places).

I have way more than the average number of computers, but I do earn money with them. To be fair, I did spend 27 years making money servicing electronic musical products, knew all the dealers I worked with, and accumulated a BUNCH of gear (some of which has been sold). Only sale regret was selling the Gibson RD Artist Bass Guitar, but I got my price, and hands cramp enough I had stopped playing it (but it sounded SOOOOO good).

If a vendor gives me a lot of problems (in any of many ways), put them on the do NOT list. If anyone tele-markets me, NEVER do what they want.

From time to time, instead of selling something, give it to someone who can't afford to buy one.

If one controls their weight to stay about the same size, seldom used quality clothing will be OK for a long time. My tux was bought in 1987, and still fits. When I see an item at a really good price, even if out of season, get it then. Most recent is a genuine leather bomber jacket new that I paid about $30 for. Amazon listed it for $180, and the "advertised retail" was listed at $450. For day to day wear in my work, eBay provides name brand shirts and pants brand new for way under what they listed for (if it doesn't sell, many smaller store owners put stuff on eBay and lower the price till it does sell, to keep from having their local customers feel ripped off by the normal store prices. I've bought new Izod and Old Navy sports shirts for under $10, as an example. Not always a color/patter that I an thrilled with, but good enough to work in and hang around the house.


Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's
HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Jim
Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
RABid #3059992 08/26/20 10:19 PM
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Ferengi rule of acquisition number 3: Never spend more for an acquisition than you have to.

But seriously, lately I've been trying to do some moderate Marie Kondo'ing of my space. It pertains to both musical/audio gear and items like furniture, kitchen gadgets, and other everyday things. "Sparking joy" is certainly a reason something would get to stay or that I'd acquire it in the first place, but my principle is more that every item must justify its footprint in terms of workflow, a sonic character I can't live without, etc. In terms of synths, processors, etc., I want to have options but not option anxiety, and I want to feel inspired to create when I walk into my studio. (Especially with regard to video, so I can make more of them faster for these forums.)

I tend to research major purchases carefully, perhaps to a fault. For example, it's time to upgrade my late-2012 iMac, which was a top-end beast of a model at the time (four-core i7, SSD, and 32GB RAM) and I've been obsessively comparing benchmarks on the 2020 refresh — i7 vs i9 etc etc.

I also have a classic car problem, which is this whole other thing, so definitely any car in means a car out. Not that I'll be buying any more anytime soon given Covid (lack of) income.


"I'm just a confused musician who got sidetracked into this damned word business..." -Hunter S. Thompson

Stephen Fortner
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Senior Editor, Music Player Network
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Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Stephen Fortner #3060000 08/26/20 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
For example, it's time to upgrade my late-2012 iMac, which was a top-end beast of a model at the time (four-core i7, SSD, and 32GB RAM) and I've been obsessively comparing benchmarks on the 2020 refresh — i7 vs i9 etc etc.

I was just about to pull the trigger for a Mac Mini to replace my Snow Leopard-bound dual Xeon. But with ARM coming up, no way. For me, a Mac update is at least two years off; meanwhile I'll use my 2013 MacBook Pro, which can still run Catalina...for what that's worth smile

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Anderton #3060012 08/27/20 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
For example, it's time to upgrade my late-2012 iMac, which was a top-end beast of a model at the time (four-core i7, SSD, and 32GB RAM) and I've been obsessively comparing benchmarks on the 2020 refresh — i7 vs i9 etc etc.

I was just about to pull the trigger for a Mac Mini to replace my Snow Leopard-bound dual Xeon. But with ARM coming up, no way. For me, a Mac update is at least two years off; meanwhile I'll use my 2013 MacBook Pro, which can still run Catalina...for what that's worth smile
That was my thought... then my 2014 MacBook Pro bit the dust. Fortunately, I’m in a very lucky position where my university job requires that I have a Mac, and so I get to spec what I want and the department buys it (the one that died belonged to my predecessor before I had it, so I’m actually impressed it lasted as long as it did, since he had some mental health issues and his equipment tended to show signs of, um, physical abuse).

Anyway, souped-up new MacBook and Catalina for me. Won’t get to check out ARM for a couple of years, probably. I love my day job for a lot of reasons, but never having to worry about having to shell out for a computer that can do heavy lifting for audio and video work is huge.


Samuel B. Lupowitz
Composer. Arranger. Musician. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado.
Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
RABid #3060014 08/27/20 02:37 AM
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If I really truly need it, I buy it.

If I can purchase something that works well used, I'll do it.

*Really funny t-shirts and exotic tasty food are exempt from this.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
KenElevenShadows #3060015 08/27/20 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by KenElevenShadows
*Really funny t-shirts and exotic tasty food are exempt from this.

Yes, used food is not worth the substantial difference in price...


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
RABid #3060019 08/27/20 03:19 AM
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I wrote two articles about this a few years ago to clarify my own thinking. It is pretty much how I spend on things.

1. Evaluating Music Technology for Purchase

2. Long Term Investment

I am the guy who will wait years to get the thing I want rather than suffer through a mediocre thing. Applied over 20 years, I am now surrounded by all nice things in the studio... I would also rather have one exceptional item of a kind than three average variants. For instance, I have one bass guitar - but it is a Pete Skjold 5 string, custom made for me - it was on the dream list for almost a decade. I also place little to no value on vintage things. I prefer the best of what is currently available. That's what people used in the past - the best of what was available. I'd rather lean forward than look back, despite there being excellent things there. It's a personal aesthetic choice, not a statement of universal truth for others. I do have a tendency towards boutique. I will pay for human skill, expertise and aesthetics. I do believe there is a sufficiency in all things. It could be little or lots, but once reached, all desire for more vanishes. I keep thinking I'll buy the hi-hats that complete a set of Paiste cymbals on my drum set , but the Zildjian K's that I got on a crazy clearance sale sound great... The point of sufficiency has been reached, apparently.

But yeah, apparently I've thought about this a lot....

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
RABid #3060023 08/27/20 04:11 AM
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I have a requirements , project based and goal setting approach.

I can be an early adopter if it makes a solid case. But I see no hurry to jump in.

So it depends what your goals and priorities are. Thats it in a nutshell.

Last edited by GregC; 08/27/20 12:02 PM.
Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Anderton #3060031 08/27/20 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
Nowadays, the main constraint is deciding whether I want something, or need something. If it's need, out comes the credit card. If it's want, I think long and hard about it, and usually pass.
This.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
RABid #3060081 08/27/20 05:47 PM
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1) It has to have features that aren't already in another piece that I already have. While part of me wants to get a second EB5 or Les Paul bass to defret, I've never bought a duplicate.
2) Preferably American made; Canadian or Korean if necessary; prefer not Chinese. Yeah, call me a jingoist. Minor caveat: used gear might not fall into this, since the overseas company has already been paid, and aren't making anything from me at this point.
3) Preferably not in a black finish. Mostly because I already have enough black guitars already. Prefer a nice color for variety. This is the rule I break the most, as the instrument I want usually just happens to be black (My EB5 and TE202 are the most recent black instruments).

But as Kuru pointed out, rules are made to be broken.


"Am I enough of a freak to be worth paying to see?"- Separated Out (Marillion)
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Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
KuruPrionz #3060103 08/28/20 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Originally Posted by KenElevenShadows
*Really funny t-shirts and exotic tasty food are exempt from this.

Yes, used food is not worth the substantial difference in price...

Good point! Although I'm okay with taking fresh fruit after someone else has purchased it.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
KenElevenShadows #3060107 08/28/20 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by KenElevenShadows
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Originally Posted by KenElevenShadows
*Really funny t-shirts and exotic tasty food are exempt from this.

Yes, used food is not worth the substantial difference in price...

Good point! Although I'm okay with taking fresh fruit after someone else has purchased it.

Sure, but that is new fruit, not used. laugh


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
RABid #3060132 08/28/20 02:17 PM
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Another thing that I try to do is honestly address the question "How much time will I spend with this?"


This post edited for speling.
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RABid #3060143 08/28/20 02:43 PM
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Some purchases exceed our original intention - we make a usual purchase and get extraordinary value. These two are bulletproof and still working.

[Linked Image from coscia.com]

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
RABid #3060165 08/28/20 05:45 PM
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Then there are the "cascading" decisions where one thing leads to another, and you end up ni a rabbit hole - I avoid these.

For example, the lack of latency with a Thunderbolt interface is a real treat. This straddles the need/want line, because it's easy to make an argument that I need the freedom not to have to concern myself with the latency involved in real time playing of VIs and guitars. But then Thunderbolt means a Thunderbolt-capable computer, and that's not exactly Windows' strong suit. So that would imply using the Mac more for music, but my Mac is old, and I would need new cables, and...yeah, USB is fine. smile

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I guess my only (recent) rule is don’t settle for something less than what you really need. The pain of paying for it should be relatively short compared to the time of actually living with it. Too many times I found myself wishing I had bought a better piece than what I actually took home.

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I have very different attitudes towards instruments than gear.

Instruments - it takes me a very long time to really bond with an instrument. Partly because I play a number of instruments and there's only so much time. Partly because I don't own any ultra-top-notch instruments and it just takes longer to produce the sounds I like and develop a good working feel for playing less-than-top-notch quality instruments. It can be done, 'tho - ask the nearest Beatle.

In terms of buying instruments, then, I do look for deals in a particular way - basically the models that do all the basics very well but forego the chrome and leather and gold-plating, etc. At the price point just before the tone is only going to get better marginally by spending more, but before all the sizzle items hike up the price.

Once I buy an instrument, it's a keeper for at least 10-15 years. Even if it's not very good - I'll still work with it to make of it what I can.

Gear - gear tends to come and go for me. Pre-amps, outboard rack units, interfaces, even mics, etc. So here I'm okay with buying used, selling it if I find I'm not using it, trying something else. Probably guitar pedals are the most characteristic item I consider "gear" in this way. Mics stick around longer, but still not forever. However, if I bought top level mics, they would probably stay forever.

So, yeah, If I bought top-notch stuff, things would be different. Things would be easier, too. But I like the rather handmade, homemade DIY approach of making less-than-stellar gear sing. Earn that tone. And find a more personal sound.

But I'd still wouldn't refuse a Two-Rock Bloomfield amp if someone just happened to give me one smile

nat

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
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My rule of thumb when music was my primary source of income was, it had to pay for itself. Everything I ever bought, did. Lately I've picked up a few things that will never, ever, pay for themselves, but that's a luxury I earned.

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If I had to justify a purchase by it having to pay for itself, I would rarely purchase much of anything.

If I want it and will use it a lot, I'll consider purchasing it.

If I genuinely need it, I'll definitely purchase it.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
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no


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More of everything.

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Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
ksoper #3060284 08/29/20 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ksoper
My rule of thumb when music was my primary source of income was, it had to pay for itself.

I understand that mindset, for sure. As a rule of thumb when travelling, I expected that what I would write on the plane with my laptop would pay for the flight. However, "pay for itself" could also mean in terms of time. If buying something saves me time, then it's saving me money, even though there may not be a 100% correlation.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
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We have so much stuff generally that I came up with a new rule for any purchase. We need a place to put it. Too often, we buy something cool, bring it home, and look around and go, "uhm…" My music studio is no exception. I don't have room for more 'boards. If I get the Clav I've been wanting, I don't know where it will go yet. If someone gives me an OB-Xa (ha!) it was going on the Wurly, but now my Grandmother is there. idk


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Joe Muscara #3060295 08/29/20 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Muscara
. If I get the Clav I've been wanting, I don't know where it will go yet.
I thought it went on top of your A 100?


that was then and this is now
Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
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Originally Posted by Doerfler
Originally Posted by Joe Muscara
. If I get the Clav I've been wanting, I don't know where it will go yet.
I thought it went on top of your A 100?
It might, though the A 100 has the nice music desk unlike some I've seen. I could fold it down, I know. idk yet.


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
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My main rule is to buy it from a local music shop instead of online.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Joe Muscara #3060315 08/29/20 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Muscara
Originally Posted by Doerfler
Originally Posted by Joe Muscara
. If I get the Clav I've been wanting, I don't know where it will go yet.
I thought it went on top of your A 100?
It might, though the A 100 has the nice music desk unlike some I've seen. I could fold it down, I know. idk yet.

this is OT to the thread, but I removed my music desk and bought the Ken Rich straddlers for the A 100 which hold my Hohner E clav. I wanted to leave it on (the music desk) but the clearance wasn't enough. It's only a few screws and can be easily re attached. Now, back on topic, carry on.

Attached Files 20200827_130649.jpg

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Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
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Originally Posted by Doerfler
Originally Posted by Joe Muscara
Originally Posted by Doerfler
Originally Posted by Joe Muscara
. If I get the Clav I've been wanting, I don't know where it will go yet.
I thought it went on top of your A 100?
It might, though the A 100 has the nice music desk unlike some I've seen. I could fold it down, I know. idk yet.

this is OT to the thread, but I removed my music desk and bought the Ken Rich straddlers for the A 100 which hold my Hohner E clav. I wanted to leave it on (the music desk) but the clearance wasn't enough. It's only a few screws and can be easily re attached. Now, back on topic, carry on.
Thanks. I was considering doing that. One thing I will have to consider is the distance to the wall, as my A100 is currently against the wall and with the pedals and bench, clears a closet door. Moving it away from the wall it might not.

BTW, I have that same flag. I bought it because I was in a Crowes tribute band for a minute, but it didn't last so I never used the flag.


The great thing about music is that there's always something to learn. The frustrating thing about music is that there's always something to learn!
Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Joe Muscara #3060356 08/30/20 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Doerfler
Originally Posted by Joe Muscara
Originally Posted by Doerfler
Originally Posted by Joe Muscara
. If I get the Clav I've been wanting, I don't know where it will go yet.
I thought it went on top of your A 100?
It might, though the A 100 has the nice music desk unlike some I've seen. I could fold it down, I know. idk yet.

this is OT to the thread, but I removed my music desk and bought the Ken Rich straddlers for the A 100 which hold my Hohner E clav. I wanted to leave it on (the music desk) but the clearance wasn't enough. It's only a few screws and can be easily re attached. Now, back on topic, carry on.
Originally Posted by Joe Muscara
Thanks. I was considering doing that. One thing I will have to consider is the distance to the wall, as my A100 is currently against the wall and with the pedals and bench, clears a closet door. Moving it away from the wall it might not.

BTW, I have that same flag. I bought it because I was in a Crowes tribute band for a minute, but it didn't last so I never used the flag.
This is even more OT to the thread, but I assume you've had no problem with fabric hanging over the back of the A100? I don't have a back panel for mine, and while it's really cool to see the motors whirring and the tubes glowing, I'm toying with the idea of some kind of tapestry to cover it... but my wife said "I'm worried it would catch on fire," which is not a thing I considered.

Dave, how far back is your Wurli from the edge of the A100? The increased height of the Hammond compared to the drum throne I had been using is making it tricky to get my legs under the Wurlitzer without bumping my knees, and I don't have a lot of room to maneuver the bench because it's straddling the bass pedals.

I swear I'm not trying to turn every thread on every forum into an "I got a new Hammond" announcement, but since it came up on a thread I was active on...


Samuel B. Lupowitz
Composer. Arranger. Musician. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado.
Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
RABid #3060366 08/30/20 03:16 PM
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Sam, send me a PM to remind me to chat with you about this and lets get this thread back on topic. cool


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Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
RABid #3060372 08/30/20 03:42 PM
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#1 - Forget vintage gear, unless you have a degree in Electrical Engineering, know how to wield a soldering iron and have adequate time on your hands.

#2 - It must at least respond to Polyphonic Aftertouch over MIDI right from the start, no "promised upgrade." (yeah, I know-deadhorse)

#3 - If you sell a piece of gear because you didn't bond to it, don't rush to fill the hole.

#4 - Never believe the hype, check out the gear directly before purchase.

#5 - Sure, analog is great, but digital is really closing the gap. Considering the Jupiter Xm at some point, but may be able to make do with U-He DIVA.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
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Probably my most important rule, and therefore the one I break with some frequency, is to not get something new until I've fully worked through the capabilities of the last thing I bought.

nat

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Marzzz #3060388 08/30/20 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Marzzz
#1 - Forget vintage gear, unless you have a degree in Electrical Engineering, know how to wield a soldering iron and have adequate time on your hands.
So true, to which I would add "and that the part that failed can actually be replaced."

Quote
#2 - It must at least respond to Polyphonic Aftertouch over MIDI right from the start, no "promised upgrade." (yeah, I know-deadhorse)
It's creeping up in popularity - even the inexpensive CME Xkey portable controllers have a well-implemented version. Also, MIDI 2.0 will give more incentive for companies to include it.

Quote
#4 - Never believe the hype, check out the gear directly before purchase.
And check out the source for reviews. Aside from GearLab, I'm not seeing a lot of in-depth reviews by people who actually know what they're talking about.

Quote
#5 - Sure, analog is great, but digital is really closing the gap.
MIDI 2.0's higher resolution will really help. Stair-stepping controls is a dead giveaway for digital, but that goes away with 32-bit resolution.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Anderton #3060430 08/31/20 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Marzzz
#4 - Never believe the hype, check out the gear directly before purchase.
Originally Posted by Anderton
And check out the source for reviews. Aside from GearLab, I'm not seeing a lot of in-depth reviews by people who actually know what they're talking about.

trying to grow GearLab, Rome wasn't built in a day, so it has been said smile


that was then and this is now
Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Doerfler #3060433 08/31/20 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
And check out the source for reviews. Aside from GearLab, I'm not seeing a lot of in-depth reviews by people who actually know what they're talking about.

trying to grow GearLab, Rome wasn't built in a day, so it has been said smile[/quote]

Once a few manufacturers start linking to the reviews, we'll be good. We just need people to know about them

I'm always a little surprised people don't spread the word more about stuff they like.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Anderton #3060435 08/31/20 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
Originally Posted by Anderton
And check out the source for reviews. Aside from GearLab, I'm not seeing a lot of in-depth reviews by people who actually know what they're talking about.

trying to grow GearLab, Rome wasn't built in a day, so it has been said smile

Once a few manufacturers start linking to the reviews, we'll be good. We just need people to know about them

I'm always a little surprised people don't spread the word more about stuff they like.[/quote]

I do on a local level. I am doing the ground work for a review for Gear Lab, I am enjoying a somewhat recent and very affordable piece of gear that I consider to be "overlooked". It targets a niche but I am finding it does well in other contexts. Existing reviews are mostly regurgitative and remain safely in the niche. When it's done I'll submit it to the powers that be and see what happens. I have at least one other "overlooked" piece of gear if the first review gets any traction. If not, I'll post it somewhere on MPN anyway.


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Anderton #3060450 08/31/20 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
And check out the source for reviews. Aside from GearLab, I'm not seeing a lot of in-depth reviews by people who actually know what they're talking about.

trying to grow GearLab, Rome wasn't built in a day, so it has been said smile

Once a few manufacturers start linking to the reviews, we'll be good. We just need people to know about them

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Manufacturers link to reviews that are written by staff writers or regular contributors of "legitimate" publications like magazines - Sound on Sound, Pro Sound News, Mix, Recording. They want to read reviews from writers that are known to be objective (well, maybe not all of them all of the time) but aren't inclined to link to even a well written review from a writer that will lead their customers to say "Who's writing this? What records that I know has he or she recorded or mixed? Did he really buy it with his own money?"

I've occasionally approached a manufacturer asking for a unit for review, citing a few of my detailed on-line review. I'll score maybe 1 in 20 - and it's getting leaner - not like when I was also writing for a couple of magazines. The editors would ask if I was interested in reviewing an item, or I could pitch a review to the editor. Manufacturers are more inclined to lend a review unit to a magazine-backed writer or the magazine itself.

I used to think that they had a warehouse full of product and could send one off to a "worthy" reviewer any time, but that's not the case. They have a few review units that get circulated - the most visible publications get them first - and guys like me can't get our hands on one without buying it, often for months after it's been introduced. Part of this is because, at this time, there are often shortages due to the world economic situation, but that, too, shall pass eventually.

But I think that in order to grow the Gear Lab, someone with a reputation in the industry like Craig, or maybe, from the other side of the coin, Dave Bryce, and say "We'd like to have Mike Rivers review your ......." Sometimes they'll say "Who???" and sometimes it works. But I believe that it's important that a review unit is requested by the publication. A review by a happy customer published in an on-line forum might actually be helpful to readers, but it doesn't usually carry a lot of weight with the manufacturer.

So get to work! Remind them how long Music Player Network has been around. Get us some gear to review so we can build your reputation.

Quote
I'm always a little surprised people don't spread the word more about stuff they like.

We see that a lot, but usually it's either about gear or software that isn't of use to me in my work, or it won't go into sufficient depth to tell me something that I can't already tell from the (usually well curated) information on the manufacturer's web site.

Last edited by Mike Rivers; 08/31/20 12:33 PM.
Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
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Maybe you guys need to change your approach like I did:

Listen up all you so called manufacturers; If you want the honor of me reviewing a piece of your gear you’re going to have to get on my schedule. And you better start kissing my ass; provide me a review unit for which I can optionally purchase at below cost. You should be so fortunate so better make that well below cost. Also throw in some freebies and make sure to include a case of decent IPA. And tasty salty snacks.

Despite being a nobody with writing skills that barely exceed those of your average 5 year old I value my opinion above all others. In the unlikely event you require further credentials perhaps you’d be better off taking a chance with Craig, Mike or Steve?

Good luck with that.






grin

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Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Nowarezman #3060780 09/02/20 03:27 AM
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Great topic and interesting replies..

Originally Posted by Nowarezman
Probably my most important rule, and therefore the one I break with some frequency, is to not get something new until I've fully worked through the capabilities of the last thing I bought.

nat
Once I had my basic flavours covered, I have applied a similar rule nat, especially in regards to creating patches. It can take me a long time (even years) to get reasonably good at getting personal sounds on some synths. If I was lucky enough to have made the right choice when I bought something, then it should inspire me to explore it for a long time. If it cannot go where I want to go, then it is time to think about something new.

Something else that has often worked for me is to hunt down a store that has one of the wiz bang instruments that I got excited to try (used to happen from reading Keyboard Mag) and then spend a good long time playing and menu diving in the store. Then I go home. If I can't stop thinking about how the unit will make my life better over the next couple days, then I will consider buying it. I have saved a considerable amount of money doing that.

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If it's an instrument: will it inspire me to play or play differently than a current instrument I own?

If it's a piece of production gear: will it save time or at least not add time to the recording process? Only so much time to spend playing/recording and can't get bogged down in complexity.

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When looking at a shiny new object, the first thing I ask is "will this help me become a better piano player?" 99.9% of the time the answer is no, which helps save me a lot of money.

In other regards, I'm very much requirements driven. I tend not to look at stuff and try to think about how I can use it. Rather, I think about the things I want/need to do (functional requirements) and then research what stuff will help me do that within the other factors and constraints that I have.

I don't think I've ever forced myself into a use case just by looking at a gadget or instrument. Hardware synthesizers are a great example of that. I have absolutely no pragmatic reason to own one, since the music I play rarely requires it. While the idea of fiddling with one would be cool, I know the fascination would last a few hours and then it would quickly turn to wasted money. And . . . they won't help me become a better piano player.

On the rare occasion that I am enticed by something, I just tell myself to go practice to restore my humility.


Mike from Central NJ
Tools: Ten fingers, two feet, middle-age brain, questionable judgement and taste
Toys: More gear than I could afford when I had talent and did this for a living
Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
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After an ongoing experience, I have to ask "How much trouble will it be for me to get it working well enough so I can forget about doing anything but using it?"

A subset of this question is "How good is Tech Support should I need it?" - Since it seems this one is neither, it's a good thing I'm not buying the product. And, yeah, it's software. Perhaps another question should be "Am I really considering a piece of software?"

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Mike Rivers #3060937 09/02/20 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rivers
After an ongoing experience, I have to ask "How much trouble will it be for me to get it working well enough so I can forget about doing anything but using it?"

A subset of this question is "How good is Tech Support should I need it?" - Since it seems this one is neither, it's a good thing I'm not buying the product. And, yeah, it's software. Perhaps another question should be "Am I really considering a piece of software?"

Good questions. Software can be a joy if the interface is well designed and it does the intended task well.
If the interface is cryptic or stupid that makes me reconsider. If it is jam-packed with tiny stuff, I don't like that either.

I am over "knobs" on interfaces. That's my "stupid" dislike. Show me a mouse with fingers, so many knobs will actually move in the opposite direction or respond erratically to up and down or side to side movements.
If you just want me to enter a number, ditch the knob and make the number entering field larger. I can do that. If you want me to be able to play around with a mouse or trackpad, put a slider on there. Stupid.

I've had pretty excellent customer service from the vendors whose software I am using. I can't think of anything to complain about there at the moment.


There is never enough time to be in a hurry...
Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
KuruPrionz #3061028 09/03/20 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
Originally Posted by Mike Rivers
After an ongoing experience, I have to ask "How much trouble will it be for me to get it working well enough so I can forget about doing anything but using it?"

A subset of this question is "How good is Tech Support should I need it?" - Since it seems this one is neither, it's a good thing I'm not buying the product. And, yeah, it's software. Perhaps another question should be "Am I really considering a piece of software?"

Good questions. Software can be a joy if the interface is well designed and it does the intended task well.
If the interface is cryptic or stupid that makes me reconsider. If it is jam-packed with tiny stuff, I don't like that either.

As you may know, I've written quite a few manuals in my time, and often get compliments about how they're easy to understand. But here's my dirty little secret: I accept manual-writing gigs only for products with good interfaces. If you document a good user interface, people will say you've written a good manual. If you document a bad user interface, people will say you've written a bad manual smile

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
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Now that I have hit 60 I have a couple new rules.

1. Avoid buying digital when possible. It devaluates too fast.
2. If you like it but don’t use it, stick it in the back of a closet where you can forget it. In a few years you will find it and it will be new again. Last week I found a Fender American Ultra P bass with P/J pickups that I forgot that I owned. It was a good feeling that cost me nothing.


This post edited for speling.
Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Anderton #3061090 09/03/20 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
As you may know, I've written quite a few manuals in my time, and often get compliments about how they're easy to understand. But here's my dirty little secret: I accept manual-writing gigs only for products with good interfaces. If you document a good user interface, people will say you've written a good manual. If you document a bad user interface, people will say you've written a bad manual smile

I worked with someone back when I worked for a living who believed that the place to start designing a new product was the user interface. From there, you can develop product specifications (what the gadget is supposed to do) and you can also start writing the manual. Those are the first (usually by necessity) and last (usually because nobody ever thought about a manual until the marketing department is yelling for a shipping date.

This isn't to say that the manual can't change and evolve as the real product takes shape, but you can't let the product drift too far from the original concept or it'll never get finished.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
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Originally Posted by Mike Rivers
Originally Posted by Anderton
As you may know, I've written quite a few manuals in my time, and often get compliments about how they're easy to understand. But here's my dirty little secret: I accept manual-writing gigs only for products with good interfaces. If you document a good user interface, people will say you've written a good manual. If you document a bad user interface, people will say you've written a bad manual smile

I worked with someone back when I worked for a living who believed that the place to start designing a new product was the user interface. From there, you can develop product specifications (what the gadget is supposed to do) and you can also start writing the manual. Those are the first (usually by necessity) and last (usually because nobody ever thought about a manual until the marketing department is yelling for a shipping date.

This isn't to say that the manual can't change and evolve as the real product takes shape, but you can't let the product drift too far from the original concept or it'll never get finished.

If nobody minds, what software are you considering buying?


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Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
RABid #3061098 09/04/20 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by RABid
Now that I have hit 60 I have a couple new rules.

1. Avoid buying digital when possible. It devaluates too fast.
2. If you like it but don’t use it, stick it in the back of a closet where you can forget it. In a few years you will find it and it will be new again. Last week I found a Fender American Ultra P bass with P/J pickups that I forgot that I owned. It was a good feeling that cost me nothing.


I like that you put "when possible" on 1. I could not afford to make recordings at a quality level I want if I had to use something analog. Big tape going fast does sound very nice but $$$$ yikes!!!!! Plus it's a pain in the ass keeping up the gear and fiddling with reels.

The stuff I have stashed away haunts me, it wants to be completed. I have an Ovation solidbody electric 12 string guitar project that wants done and a hot rod Tele with a Floyd Rose - I built the body and the neck from lumber. Both of those are going to be great guitars someday, hoping soon. One of the good things to come of this pandemic is I am clearing out the old projects and getting things done.


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Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
KuruPrionz #3061130 09/04/20 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
If nobody minds, what software are you considering buying?

Me? Buy software? That's not something that I do. At the moment I have the IK Multimedia ARC3 room correction plug-in here, but it's not really to use it to correct my room, it's to see if I can build a hardware (in/out) room correction processor that doesn't depend on me using a DAW. ARC3 is supposed to be able to run as a plug-in for IK's Sample Tank, which is capable of running a stand-alone application. However, I haven't yet been successful at getting either program working. I think it's a matter that both programs appear as VST3 plug-ins. Pro Tools doesn't support VST at all, Mixbux is planning VST3 support in the next release of Version 6, and Reaper (which does support, or at least recognize VST3) apparently runs the program, but doesn't display the GUI and gives me only a generic wet/dry mix knob.

IK Tech Support tells me that it's supposed to also provide plain VST and AAX plug-in formats, but so far no go. Maybe I've run out of computer brain power, or personal brain power.

But since this has drifted off as a UI discussion, ARC3 has some beautiful graphics (in the pictures) but the manual has little text about what you can interpret or edit. Maybe once I can see the program's user interface, it'll all be obvious (a good thing).

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Mike Rivers #3061143 09/04/20 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rivers
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
If nobody minds, what software are you considering buying?

Me? Buy software? That's not something that I do. At the moment I have the IK Multimedia ARC3 room correction plug-in here, but it's not really to use it to correct my room, it's to see if I can build a hardware (in/out) room correction processor that doesn't depend on me using a DAW. ARC3 is supposed to be able to run as a plug-in for IK's Sample Tank, which is capable of running a stand-alone application. However, I haven't yet been successful at getting either program working. I think it's a matter that both programs appear as VST3 plug-ins. Pro Tools doesn't support VST at all, Mixbux is planning VST3 support in the next release of Version 6, and Reaper (which does support, or at least recognize VST3) apparently runs the program, but doesn't display the GUI and gives me only a generic wet/dry mix knob.

IK Tech Support tells me that it's supposed to also provide plain VST and AAX plug-in formats, but so far no go. Maybe I've run out of computer brain power, or personal brain power.

But since this has drifted off as a UI discussion, ARC3 has some beautiful graphics (in the pictures) but the manual has little text about what you can interpret or edit. Maybe once I can see the program's user interface, it'll all be obvious (a good thing).

You are using one of the free versions of SampleTank? I have a paid version and it can be opened and used without opening any other software.
Are you working with SampleTank CS? That is the free version... https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/st4cs/?pkey=sampletank-4-cs


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Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Mike Rivers #3061173 09/04/20 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rivers
I worked with someone back when I worked for a living who believed that the place to start designing a new product was the user interface.

Couldn't agree more. Started with an objective, then working backward from the objective, is usually the way to go in lots of situations. Like when musicians want to do projects, I often recommend they first get a firm idea of who their audience is, and how they're going to market the music.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
KuruPrionz #3061200 09/04/20 07:43 PM
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[quote=KuruPrionz]

You are using one of the free versions of SampleTank? I have a paid version and it can be opened and used without opening any other software.
Are you working with SampleTank CS? That is the free version.

Yes, that's the version I'm using. It was there in my Installation and Autherization Manager inviting me to download and authorize it, so I did, since I had planned to use Sample Tank as a host for ARC.

It crashes when opened by itself, and when installed as a plug-in to Reaper, it crashes Reaper.

I could get a licensed version but I suspect that the problem is more fundamental than that. SOMETHING should work with the version that they offer for free.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
RABid #3061202 09/04/20 08:21 PM
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I forget whether you're using 32-bit or 64-bit Windows...although SampleTank is compatible with Windows 7, it's 64-bit only.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Anderton #3061215 09/04/20 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
I forget whether you're using 32-bit or 64-bit Windows...although SampleTank is compatible with Windows 7, it's 64-bit only.

64-bit Windows. So in theory it should work with Reaper unless Reaper doesn't support 64-bit plug-ins. But that still doesn't explain why loading Sample Tank by itself crashes. Maybe it wants more memory. The crash report is a Windows message, not a Reaper message, something about Windows trying to find a solution, but says it can't.

Just for kicks, I should probably try installing these IK programs on the computer I'm using now (the one in the office) so I don't have to run to the back room to try suggestions as they come in (I don't do e-mail and avoid web surfing on the studio computer).

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Mike Rivers #3061219 09/04/20 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rivers
Maybe it wants more memory.

If you have 8 GB, it should run.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Mike Rivers #3061243 09/05/20 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rivers
Originally Posted by Anderton
I forget whether you're using 32-bit or 64-bit Windows...although SampleTank is compatible with Windows 7, it's 64-bit only.

64-bit Windows. So in theory it should work with Reaper unless Reaper doesn't support 64-bit plug-ins. But that still doesn't explain why loading Sample Tank by itself crashes. Maybe it wants more memory. The crash report is a Windows message, not a Reaper message, something about Windows trying to find a solution, but says it can't.

Just for kicks, I should probably try installing these IK programs on the computer I'm using now (the one in the office) so I don't have to run to the back room to try suggestions as they come in (I don't do e-mail and avoid web surfing on the studio computer).


I'm on a Mac and SampleTank 3 would crash my DAW every time I opened it. I learned a lot with my "forum" search trick. For you, try "Windows (version) Sampletank (version) crash FORUM".
Adding the word "forum" could bring up discussions on the problem and often solutions are forthcoming. There always seems to be somebody who has solved the problem and is sharing their solution for the greater good of all humankind.

I've found help for all sorts of problems that way, from pulling the starter in a car to finding the biggest fretwire.


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Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
KuruPrionz #3061264 09/05/20 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
[quote=Mike Rivers]
Just for kicks, I should probably try installing these IK programs on the computer I'm using now (the one in the office) so I don't have to run to the back room to try suggestions as they come in (I don't do e-mail and avoid web surfing on the studio computer).

And I did that. I still can't find the VST(2) version of ARC3, and with the same DAWs installed on both the office and studio computers, I don't have much faith in getting it to work.

For some odd reason, when I installed the programs on the studio computer, I installed Sample Tank 4 CS, while on the office computer, I installed just plain Sample Tank 4. This comes up and doesn't crash on the office computer, but it apparently doesn't have any sounds along with it. I can't imagine them not sending ANY sounds along with an initial installation. I'm downloading some sounds now (Sample Tank 4 CS Sound Content) that, if I interpret the IK Product Manager correctly, have 53 days remaining before they blow up.

Since we had a drift toward User Interface here, I'll say that the UI (at least when it hasn't found any sounds) is really confusing. Maybe it'll look more sensible when I get some sounds loaded.

Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
I'm on a Mac and SampleTank 3 would crash my DAW every time I opened it. I learned a lot with my "forum" search trick. For you, try "Windows (version) Sampletank (version) crash FORUM".

I've found help for all sorts of problems that way, from pulling the starter in a car to finding the biggest fretwire.

I learned how to adjust the parking brake on my car when the mechanic at the local garage couldn't find the adjustment. It's an old fashioned drum brake and the slot where you put in the tool to turn the "star" wheel has a hidden rubber plug.

But, really, who wants to bother with a program that crashes? I know IK is a reputable company and I'm sure their software works just fine for people who keep their computers up to date, but I'll have to really need a new capability before I'll do more than a trivial update to a computer that works for everything else that I use it for.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Mike Rivers #3061270 09/05/20 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rivers
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
[quote=Mike Rivers]
Just for kicks, I should probably try installing these IK programs on the computer I'm using now (the one in the office) so I don't have to run to the back room to try suggestions as they come in (I don't do e-mail and avoid web surfing on the studio computer).

And I did that. I still can't find the VST(2) version of ARC3, and with the same DAWs installed on both the office and studio computers, I don't have much faith in getting it to work.

For some odd reason, when I installed the programs on the studio computer, I installed Sample Tank 4 CS, while on the office computer, I installed just plain Sample Tank 4. This comes up and doesn't crash on the office computer, but it apparently doesn't have any sounds along with it. I can't imagine them not sending ANY sounds along with an initial installation. I'm downloading some sounds now (Sample Tank 4 CS Sound Content) that, if I interpret the IK Product Manager correctly, have 53 days remaining before they blow up.

Since we had a drift toward User Interface here, I'll say that the UI (at least when it hasn't found any sounds) is really confusing. Maybe it'll look more sensible when I get some sounds loaded.

Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
I'm on a Mac and SampleTank 3 would crash my DAW every time I opened it. I learned a lot with my "forum" search trick. For you, try "Windows (version) Sampletank (version) crash FORUM".

I've found help for all sorts of problems that way, from pulling the starter in a car to finding the biggest fretwire.

I learned how to adjust the parking brake on my car when the mechanic at the local garage couldn't find the adjustment. It's an old fashioned drum brake and the slot where you put in the tool to turn the "star" wheel has a hidden rubber plug.

But, really, who wants to bother with a program that crashes? I know IK is a reputable company and I'm sure their software works just fine for people who keep their computers up to date, but I'll have to really need a new capability before I'll do more than a trivial update to a computer that works for everything else that I use it for.


IK has separated SampleTank and the sound content. Marketing most likely. The time limit is on downloads, they do encourage you to keep a copy of your installer.
They will often extend the download limit on request.

I am usually given choices as to file type on installation when adding plugins. If I want it for Fishman Triple Play I add the VST version to the AU version. Most of my plugins are AU, just a single version. Installers will happily give you as many options as they offer, bloating your plugin options with redundant choices. Easy way to trim them down is to not install them in the first place.

I don't know what it's like to install on Windows, I've never had a Billy G Box at home. Used them often at work, somebody else maintained the work computers. Sounds like you've hit an impasse, hopefully another forumite will chime in.


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Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
KuruPrionz #3061273 09/05/20 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
IK has separated SampleTank and the sound content. Marketing most likely. The time limit is on downloads, they do encourage you to keep a copy of your installer.

I don't know what it's like to install on Windows,

Well, apparently neither do I. I downloded the sound content (a ZIP file), unzipped it and there were instruments and stuff in it like I was expecting, but when I ran the installer, it said "no sound content to install." I tried moving the files to places where I expected that they could be found (within the Sample Tank folder) but no go.

If they aren't going to supply manual installation instructions. at least the automatic installer should work. I dunno.

[Later] Well, I managed to copy enough files into enough places so that the sounds installed, and they now appear on the Sample Tank main screen. So I selected some strings Part 1 and a picture of a bunch of string instruments popped up. I assumed (you know what that means) that I could play some sounds by clicking on the keyboard at the bottom of the page, but no go. So I checked the settings and MIDI was set for "Any MIDI." I don't have a hardware MIDI interface on this computer, so I guess I'm stuck here for a while. I don't really have any use for this program other than to be a host for ARC 3, so I guess that's the next thing to figure out.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Mike Rivers #3061276 09/05/20 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rivers
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
IK has separated SampleTank and the sound content. Marketing most likely. The time limit is on downloads, they do encourage you to keep a copy of your installer.

I don't know what it's like to install on Windows,

Well, apparently neither do I. I downloded the sound content (a ZIP file), unzipped it and there were instruments and stuff in it like I was expecting, but when I ran the installer, it said "no sound content to install." I tried moving the files to places where I expected that they could be found (within the Sample Tank folder) but no go.

If they aren't going to supply manual installation instructions. at least the automatic installer should work. I dunno.

IK has a new universal installer app called IK Product Manager. That would probably do a complete install automatically. They are behind the curve on adding that widget, NI, Arturia, Waves and others have had something like that for quite a while now. I have it, it does work well. When my computer got wonky and I did a "nuke and pave" using the plugin installers did make life much easier.


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Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
KuruPrionz #3061279 09/05/20 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
IK has a new universal installer app called IK Product Manager. That would probably do a complete install automatically.

That's what I've been using, and it's what I finally beat into submission so that it said that the sounds were correctly installed. I probably shouldn't have bothered to download the samples - huge file, nothing I'm ever likely to use.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Mike Rivers #3061292 09/05/20 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rivers
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
IK has a new universal installer app called IK Product Manager. That would probably do a complete install automatically.

That's what I've been using, and it's what I finally beat into submission so that it said that the sounds were correctly installed. I probably shouldn't have bothered to download the samples - huge file, nothing I'm ever likely to use.

You could toss out most of them, re-scan and proceed with your evil plan?


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Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
KuruPrionz #3061297 09/05/20 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
IK has separated SampleTank and the sound content. Marketing most likely.

No, customer feedback. A lot of companies do this now so that if you saved the content, you don't have to download it again when you install a new version. Also when you have a huge download, it's convenient to be able to pick and choose what you do and don't want to install. Studio One does the same thing - the program is under 2 MB, but the content is around 20 GB. When I went from SO4 to SO5, I didn't have to download any of the content.

Re: Do you have any self imposed purchasing rules.
Anderton #3061305 09/05/20 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderton
Originally Posted by KuruPrionz
IK has separated SampleTank and the sound content. Marketing most likely.

No, customer feedback. A lot of companies do this now so that if you saved the content, you don't have to download it again when you install a new version. Also when you have a huge download, it's convenient to be able to pick and choose what you do and don't want to install. Studio One does the same thing - the program is under 2 MB, but the content is around 20 GB. When I went from SO4 to SO5, I didn't have to download any of the content.

Just as good only better!

I ended up having to download NI Studio Drummer again, 6+ gigs. I didn't bother with Scarbee Bass, it's closer to 7 gigs and I had no use for it first time around. It did teach me to download the demo first!
At this point it's more about "what plugins can I do without" than adding anything. I've started at Favorites folder in my custom plugin folders, eventually that might be just the ones I use and like.
Waveform has a Recently Used folder on top of the plugin popup that temporarily stores my choices, I like that feature. Some things end up more or less just staying there anyway.


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