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OT: Northern California Fires


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I'm reading the national news about it, but I don't think any news story or video can convey just how bad it is in Northern California, roughly from San Jose north to the top end of wine country. A lot of homes have burned and lots more folks have been evacuated. But the smoke is affecting everyone. It drifts around but has tended to hang in some areas more than other. On the particulate matter scale, a reading above 100 is considered unhealthy. It's around 250 where I live now in southern Marin, and in the 300's in spots near us. There are spots in the South Bay near Santa Cruz and San Jose that have been in the the 400 or 500's. Unreal numbers. At times it's a thick, choking fog that you literally cannot see through and cannot breath.

 

In certain times and places it clears out entirely. Yesterday we fled to Golden Gate Park with the kids for a couple hours of recreation and it was just like any other day.

 

You can check PM quality all over the world on Purpleair.com.

 

The cause of these fires was "dry lightning" strikes spread over a huge area. The sheer number and area of the fires has strained fire-fighting resources far beyond the limit. California relies in part on prison crews to help fight fires, but many crews are shut down or disbanded due to the virus. More dry lightning is forecast for tonight into tomorrow, potentially making a bad situation much worse.

 

Normally the wildfire season doesn't arrive until late October. So there's the potential for a double wammy this year, August and October.

 

My family is in a better situation than most. We have air conditioning, which most Northern California houses do not. Air purifiers are running full time. We have solar panels and a battery system so the rotating power outages of last week did not affect us. And our house location is relatively robust against being in an actual fire. None of this is accidental. My wife and I decided a couple years ago that if we were going to stay in the area, we'd have to be ready for exactly this scenario.

 

The only way to fully appreciate what's happening here is to see it with your own eyes. I think this is going to cause a lot of people to question whether this area is where they want to live.

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This is terrible to hear and must be awful to witness firsthand. I have a close friend in Sacramento and another friend from college in the Bay Area who we just spoke with last night, and it"s a grim reality of our time. I really hope it"s over sooner rather than later, but I"m sure there"s deep anxiety to contend with on top of the horror.

Samuel B. Lupowitz

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The fires will be contained. The air quality will improve in 2-3 weeks.

Fire season will be over by Thanksgiving.

 

There, thats the short term. I am confident that serious problems will be solved.

 

people move from the Bay Area for multiple reasons, usually financially motivated.

 

I am staying. There is no better place, IMO.

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

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I'm right on the ocean in Rockaway Beach, Pacifica. It's just south of San Francisco. The smell of smoke is thick in the air. The beaches and parking lots from here down through Half Moon Bay are closed in order to keep Highway 1 open for emergency vehicles to get to the fire zone south of here. I know people who have evacuated. A bassist I've gigged with is marked safe but he may not have a home to go back to. Big Basin Redwoods state park is extensively damaged.

 

"Many of Big Basin Redwoods State Park"s coast redwood trees, which have come to symbolize California"s grandeur and ecological diversity, are 1,000 to 1,800 years old, hundreds of feet tall and, in some instances, over 50 feet in circumference. Most were on fire earlier this week, as the CZU August Lightning Complex Fires tore through the park, causing several of the ancient trees to fall."

These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise.
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I'm right on the ocean in Rockaway Beach, Pacifica. It's just south of San Francisco. The smell of smoke is thick in the air. The beaches and parking lots from here down through Half Moon Bay are closed in order to keep Highway 1 open for emergency vehicles to get to the fire zone south of here. I know people who have evacuated. A bassist I've gigged with is marked safe but he may not have a home to go back to. Big Basin Redwoods state park is extensively damaged.

 

"Many of Big Basin Redwoods State Park"s coast redwood trees, which have come to symbolize California"s grandeur and ecological diversity, are 1,000 to 1,800 years old, hundreds of feet tall and, in some instances, over 50 feet in circumference. Most were on fire earlier this week, as the CZU August Lightning Complex Fires tore through the park, causing several of the ancient trees to fall."

 

 

I was saddened when I heard that Redwoods were damaged or destroyed.

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I wish we could send the rains (but not the winds, lightning, floods, etc.) from Marco and Laura to CA and literally wash your troubles away.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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I was saddened when I heard that Redwoods were damaged or destroyed.
I've seen several very disturbing photos of redwoods on fire.

 

My brother lives in Redwood City, CA and (surprise) has a huge redwood tree in his back yard - which has been something of a mixed blessing - but I had never thought of it in the context of a fire hazard. That's a lot of fuel.

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

-Mark Twain

 

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I was saddened when I heard that Redwoods were damaged or destroyed.
I've seen several very disturbing photos of redwoods on fire.

 

My brother lives in Redwood City, CA and (surprise) has a huge redwood tree in his back yard - which has been something of a mixed blessing - but I had never thought of it in the context of a fire hazard. That's a lot of fuel.

 

Redwood trees are actually extremely fire-resistant, it's one reason they can live so long and grow so big. But they'll burn if it's hot enough. This gets into the nuances of wildfire control, about which I am not an expert, but I understand the simple concept that if you allow the underbrush to burn every so often, as it naturally will, rather than try to suppress every wildfire, the bigger fires will be less hot and the more permanent vegetation like redwood trees will more likely survive.

 

Eucalyptus trees on the other hand are like sticks of dynamite waiting to explode. That they are not native to California comes as a surprise to many people because they are everywhere here. If I'm not mistaken, eucalyptus was imported from Australia because it was thought they would provide useful stock for building railroads. If you live in a fire hazard area and have a yook in your backyard, cut it down.

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Having lived through this in December and January here my condolences to those affected by these fires. The scary thing is the additional measures firefighters battlimg these fires and those evacuated have to take in the middle of a pandemic to stay safe. These are already being discussed here as we head into our fire season.

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Very sorry if anyone suffered home damage. Personally, as much as I would love a cabin in the woods, if I couldn't protect it somehow from fire I would be worrying too much. If someone came up with fireproof tarps or something for homes that work, I imagine they'd make money. Did read about some guy selling expensive spray that is questionable.

On top of this, the pine beetle is doing a real number on the northern forests killing trees. The winter temps have to get very low to help kill them off, and climate change seems to be holding it up to get that low.

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Having lived through this in December and January here my condolences to those affected by these fires. The scary thing is the additional measures firefighters battlimg these fires and those evacuated have to take in the middle of a pandemic to stay safe. These are already being discussed here as we head into our fire season.

 

 

This exactly - thinking of everyone impacted :(

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Unfortunately, probably more the norm moving forward as Climate Change starts to get rolling. It hasn't really revved up yet. Fires have been an issue forever, but it's made worse according to some articles I've read.

 

Speaking of beetles, on my trip to Alaska the warming weather is what is helping along that one horrible pest that is destroying forests--the weather isn't staying cold enough for long enough to kill the larva.

 

Looking at the ferocity of some of those fires, I doubt a tarp is going to do much. Might help with a distant fire that is sending some embers around, but if one of those fast big fires comes your way you have one option: go away quickly.

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I was saddened when I heard that Redwoods were damaged or destroyed.
I've seen several very disturbing photos of redwoods on fire.

 

My brother lives in Redwood City, CA and (surprise) has a huge redwood tree in his back yard - which has been something of a mixed blessing - but I had never thought of it in the context of a fire hazard. That's a lot of fuel.

 

Redwood trees are actually extremely fire-resistant, it's one reason they can live so long and grow so big. But they'll burn if it's hot enough. This gets into the nuances of wildfire control, about which I am not an expert, but I understand the simple concept that if you allow the underbrush to burn every so often, as it naturally will, rather than try to suppress every wildfire, the bigger fires will be less hot and the more permanent vegetation like redwood trees will more likely survive.

 

Eucalyptus trees on the other hand are like sticks of dynamite waiting to explode. That they are not native to California comes as a surprise to many people because they are everywhere here. If I'm not mistaken, eucalyptus was imported from Australia because it was thought they would provide useful stock for building railroads. If you live in a fire hazard area and have a yook in your backyard, cut it down.

 

Bottom line is that Smokey the Bear was wrong. Humans make choices, choosing to create Smokey was a mistake. Putting out every fire quickly is what leads to our current situation.

 

Up here on the coast just south of Canada there are thousands upon thousands of people living in heavily forested areas. I was one of them when I first moved up here. The neighbor kids playing with fireworks out in the woods on the 5th of July was my wake up call. I sold my house next April and moved into town, away from all the trees.

 

A couple of summers ago, there were some big fires in British Columbia, AND 25 million acres of Siberian forest burned out of control with no attempt to contain.

The air here was pretty foul but I am certain we will have catastrophic fires here at some point and the situation will be much worse than just bad air.

 

I called my brother in Santa Cruz, they are fine - more or less out of the battle zone - but it is a disaster. They want to move away from California but seem intent on staying near the coast and the forests.

In the end, there is no safe place on this planet. Fire, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, tornados, baseball sized hail, infestations, disease and death. So it goes, hope everybody is well and happy! Cheers, Kuru

 

PS, I lived in Cali and we would use eucalyptus to get a fire started, very flammable wood. So are manzanita and madrone, very common in areas of California. Yes, eucalyptus is from Australia, it was imported because it grows quickly and makes a good wind-break. The Okies that came to California during the Dust Bowl migrations remembered that lesson well, if they had planted eucalyptus windbreaks back home they might still be living there.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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Hi Adan, what an enormous contrast between the supposedly gorgeous north of Sausalito area and the loom of getting hit by wild fire.

 

For long I'd have far far preferred to live in San Francisco if I would have had the chance (from Amsterdam). So years ago I'd get some taste of Bay Area news through the web version of the Chronicle. Recently I got an email offer for a free subscription, but somehow didn't feel like it. However I regularly look up things San Francisco, and happened a few days ago to have seen a major act of nature in the form of formidable lightning and thunder. Little did I know that might cause such horrible circumstance..

 

Theo

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Big problem with San fran (and other areas) compared to much of the US...it is really, really expensive. Not sure how it would compare to Amsterdam.

 

When I worked for Oracle (in the Orlando area) way back when, some people made out like bandits because they transferred out of San fran area to other spots in the country--but kept their salary. You needed at least double the salary--or some % higher, I don't recall and don't really know if it's changed--to have the same standard of living. Buying a tiny house out there would get you a huge place with land elsewhere.

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Theo, now might be your chance. San Francisco is more affordable now than it has been in many years. Still not cheap or even "reasonable," but a lot more within reach than it was. The pandemic has convinced many people both that they don't want to live in the city and that they don't need to, since so many white collar city jobs are going to be largely remote. The fire hazard in the city is minimal. Smoke is bad, but if you live in the western part of the SF near the ocean (where I lived for 12 years), you would have had some of the cleanest air in the Bay Area for the past several days.

 

However, the homeless population in San Francisco keeps growing larger and spreading to new areas. Tent cities spring up anywhere they can. I feel sorry for all those people, but at the same time, I can't say I'd be eager to live amongst them.

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Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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Unfortunately, probably more the norm moving forward as Climate Change starts to get rolling. It hasn't really revved up yet. Fires have been an issue forever, but it's made worse according to some articles I've read.

 

Speaking of beetles, on my trip to Alaska the warming weather is what is helping along that one horrible pest that is destroying forests--the weather isn't staying cold enough for long enough to kill the larva.

 

Looking at the ferocity of some of those fires, I doubt a tarp is going to do much. Might help with a distant fire that is sending some embers around, but if one of those fast big fires comes your way you have one option: go away quickly.

 

Climate change is irrelevant to the situation. The last major wildfire was thoroughly investigated and the National Forest Service concluded that California is doing absolutely everything wrong concerning forest maintenance. They were even warned prior to the fires that the forests were overgrown and the undergrowth situation was like a fuse to a bomb. Worrying about climate change before addressing issues as simple as forest mismanagement is like getting out of the shower and putting on your shoes before you grab the towel.

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Big problem with San fran (and other areas) compared to much of the US...it is really, really expensive. Not sure how it would compare to Amsterdam.

 

When I worked for Oracle (in the Orlando area) way back when, some people made out like bandits because they transferred out of San fran area to other spots in the country--but kept their salary. You needed at least double the salary--or some % higher, I don't recall and don't really know if it's changed--to have the same standard of living. Buying a tiny house out there would get you a huge place with land elsewhere.

|

 

condos, townhouses for sale out number a traditional home by 2 to 1.

 

The SF condo prices are slipping partly as a result of owners tired of being cooped up in small space.

Plus there are other external issues .

 

Home prices are still stratospheric, compared to the obvious, Arkansas, Idaho. etc etc.

 

Realtors love this kind of churn.

 

I am a happy homeowner, 80 miles east of the City.

I also have over 40 years of home ownership experience in the Bay Area.

 

One year from now, I believe circumstances will improve, be better.

 

I do not hug the gloom and doom theories, as today circumstances change.

 

Problems get solved. Markets always change, call it cyclical.

Simply, there is a lot of wealth in the area.

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

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Unfortunately, probably more the norm moving forward as Climate Change starts to get rolling. It hasn't really revved up yet. Fires have been an issue forever, but it's made worse according to some articles I've read.

 

Speaking of beetles, on my trip to Alaska the warming weather is what is helping along that one horrible pest that is destroying forests--the weather isn't staying cold enough for long enough to kill the larva.

 

Looking at the ferocity of some of those fires, I doubt a tarp is going to do much. Might help with a distant fire that is sending some embers around, but if one of those fast big fires comes your way you have one option: go away quickly.

 

Climate change is irrelevant to the situation. The last major wildfire was thoroughly investigated and the National Forest Service concluded that California is doing absolutely everything wrong concerning forest maintenance. They were even warned prior to the fires that the forests were overgrown and the undergrowth situation was like a fuse to a bomb. Worrying about climate change before addressing issues as simple as forest mismanagement is like getting out of the shower and putting on your shoes before you grab the towel.

 

 

This is true. The first place I lived in Washington was Sudden Valley. There are over 6,000 people living in over 2,500 homes on a heavily forested hillside on the west side of Lake Whatcom. There are often high winds up or down the lake. People have fires outdoors often in the summer. In some places the pine needles, branches, dry underbrush etc. is 2-3 feet deep. Since it is a private HOA, the roads are not subject to state laws. Many of them are very steep and curvy, you cannot "hightail it out of there." easily, even if the roads were empty and you had a motorcycle or sports car you still cannot go very fast. With everybody trying to flee at once, you'd be better off on foot.

 

It only takes one imbecile making one mistake to get a catastrophic wildfire up and running. If the wind happens to be blowing hard (common), it will be nothing short of a catastrophe.

Clearing the underbrush is an insurmountable task far exceeding the budget of the Association if it were even proposed or approved.

 

Even if our climate magically reverted to how it was 50 years ago, this would still be a timebomb, ticking...

 

So glad to live away from there!!!!!

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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Last week my older son and daughter in law had to evacuate their home in Fairfield. The fires got very close to their home, but never crossed into their subdivision. They were eventually able to return home after the evac orders were lifted, and while the open space all around them is burnt and scorched, their home is undamaged. We are all thankful.

 

The smoke here is intolerable. Last night my wife and I had dinner at open-air seating in Danville - completely deserted. The restaurant told us they had 20 reservations all cancel that evening - because of air quality concerns. We missed the memo and probably should not have been out either. We will try not to make that mistake again.

 

The Bay Area has many advantages. It also has well-known disadvantages, the prohibitive cost of housing and living having already been cited.

 

For me, I'm a life long native. I've never lived anywhere other than the Bay Area my entire life, and no plans to move away. And we are going through some things right now.

..
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Unfortunately, probably more the norm moving forward as Climate Change starts to get rolling. It hasn't really revved up yet. Fires have been an issue forever, but it's made worse according to some articles I've read.

 

Speaking of beetles, on my trip to Alaska the warming weather is what is helping along that one horrible pest that is destroying forests--the weather isn't staying cold enough for long enough to kill the larva.

 

Looking at the ferocity of some of those fires, I doubt a tarp is going to do much. Might help with a distant fire that is sending some embers around, but if one of those fast big fires comes your way you have one option: go away quickly.

 

Climate change is irrelevant to the situation. The last major wildfire was thoroughly investigated and the National Forest Service concluded that California is doing absolutely everything wrong concerning forest maintenance. They were even warned prior to the fires that the forests were overgrown and the undergrowth situation was like a fuse to a bomb. Worrying about climate change before addressing issues as simple as forest mismanagement is like getting out of the shower and putting on your shoes before you grab the towel.

 

 

This is true. The first place I lived in Washington was Sudden Valley. There are over 6,000 people living in over 2,500 homes on a heavily forested hillside on the west side of Lake Whatcom. There are often high winds up or down the lake. People have fires outdoors often in the summer. In some places the pine needles, branches, dry underbrush etc. is 2-3 feet deep. Since it is a private HOA, the roads are not subject to state laws. Many of them are very steep and curvy, you cannot "hightail it out of there." easily, even if the roads were empty and you had a motorcycle or sports car you still cannot go very fast. With everybody trying to flee at once, you'd be better off on foot.

 

It only takes one imbecile making one mistake to get a catastrophic wildfire up and running. If the wind happens to be blowing hard (common), it will be nothing short of a catastrophe.

Clearing the underbrush is an insurmountable task far exceeding the budget of the Association if it were even proposed or approved.

 

Even if our climate magically reverted to how it was 50 years ago, this would still be a timebomb, ticking...

 

So glad to live away from there!!!!!

 

I seem to find that the louder people yell about climate change--whether it be wildfires, hurricanes, or floods--the less money and awareness actually goes where it can make a difference, like preventative measures or fixing infrastructure. We can be a zero-carbon nation and still get devastated by a hurricane or a wildfire if the basic protective measures are simply ignored.

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Climate change is irrelevant to the situation. The last major wildfire was thoroughly investigated and the National Forest Service concluded that California is doing absolutely everything wrong concerning forest maintenance. They were even warned prior to the fires that the forests were overgrown and the undergrowth situation was like a fuse to a bomb. Worrying about climate change before addressing issues as simple as forest mismanagement is like getting out of the shower and putting on your shoes before you grab the towel.

 

60% of California forest land is federal. 2% is State. The rest is private land.

 

Moreover, and maybe more to the point, many of these fires are not on forested land. Vacaville and Fairfield, two cities heavily impacted by the current fires, are not in forests. Same true for the devastating Santa Rosa fire two years ago.

 

It's true that forest management practices are evolving based on a better understanding of forest dynamics. However, if you want to argue the increasing severity of recent fire seasons is all about the CA State government being on a different page than everyone else, you'll have to give us better facts.

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In Amsterdam, where it is strangely quiet less lately, it's that the airplanes (why does FF spell correct object to his word ?!) and traffic jams are way less, so I feel for instance sitting in a garden or walking in nature the clouds are prettier, and the air is more normal.

 

I'm from the Hague (west coast of Holland, government city with the international court, pretty boring otherwise) originally which is also on the coast, and indeed the air is nicer.

 

I suppose it's like a believing in a natural order of things that could be misplaced as a natural religion to feel earthquakes, natural disasters and all kinds of other events attracts people to danger or want a stake in an area where danger lurks. It's not that way with me, I'm attracted to the beauty and unlimited mind frames, and it would be far from me to think some epidemic or disaster is necessary to winnow the undesirable elements out of the population and have it's desired economical effects. I think it's fine "the city" doesn't need to harbour a mega amount of technology nerds who contribute little to the society, not that I'm against the tech, I'm an EE myself and built tech as a hobby, but banninations are sometimes for reasons.

 

I hope ample of the beautiful nature will remain and get rain soon.

 

Theo

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Climate change is irrelevant to the situation. The last major wildfire was thoroughly investigated and the National Forest Service concluded that California is doing absolutely everything wrong concerning forest maintenance. They were even warned prior to the fires that the forests were overgrown and the undergrowth situation was like a fuse to a bomb. Worrying about climate change before addressing issues as simple as forest mismanagement is like getting out of the shower and putting on your shoes before you grab the towel.

 

60% of California forest land is federal. 2% is State. The rest is private land.

 

Moreover, and maybe more to the point, many of these fires are not on forested land. Vacaville and Fairfield, two cities heavily impacted by the current fires, are not in forests. Same true for the devastating Santa Rosa fire two years ago.

 

It's true that forest management practices are evolving based on a better understanding of forest dynamics. However, if you want to argue the increasing severity of recent fire seasons is all about the CA State government being on a different page than everyone else, you'll have to give us better facts.

 

Actually no, the burden of proof in this conversation is on the claim that climate change is the cause of seemingly worsening wildfires (and other natural disasters), because the IPCC and the NFS disagree. The science says the forests are in a more dangerous condition independent of climate, and that the effects of climate change are inconclusive because there are far more important factors that take priority in the data.

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Actually no, the burden of proof in this conversation is on the claim that climate change is the cause of seemingly worsening wildfires (and other natural disasters), because the IPCC and the NFS disagree. The science says the forests are in a more dangerous condition independent of climate, and that the effects of climate change are inconclusive because there are far more important factors that take priority in the data.

 

I haven't mentioned climate change, or for that matter any cause. I started the thread to report impressions from a truly monumental event, not to have a policy debate. But the claim that management of State lands is a major cause of the current fires rings false to me. For example, most of the smoke where I live is coming from a fire on Point Reyes National Seashore. Federal land.

 

Climate change issues are my business, it's what I do from 9-5 every weekday. Everyone who's serious about the topic knows you can't draw direct causal connections between individual meteorological events (like the dry lightning strikes that sparked the current fires here) and global climate trends. Relating macro to micro is not that simple.

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We missed the memo and probably should not have been out either. We will try not to make that mistake again.

 

 

 

Tim, don't wait for a memo next time. Purpleair.com is your friend. Above 100, think twice about it. Above 150, you probably shouldn't go. Above 200 is serious sh*t.

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