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Live Music in NY Bars is DEAD


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There's a theme here, which is should we really mourn the death of something that was dying anyway. For the almost 20 years I've lived here I've watched the San Francisco music scene shrink, one of the leading factors being the economic prosperity of the city, which allows for big ticket big shows at major venues but tends to sanitize and eliminate the petri dish music venues where the really interesting stuff happens and where musicians like myself can find a welcoming stage.

 

Switching metaphors, my hope is that the virus will be like a forest fire that wipes out established vegetation but leaves space and fertile soil for new and unexpected growth.

 

I guess it's not a metaphor at all since it's actually happening less than an hour's drive from me right now.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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Read an article the other day that said only 8% of the normal amount of workers in downtown NYC are coming in. The majority are remote working from home and the rest are laid off. There are now surveys of the major employers saying working from home has been much better than they expected and will probably continue with it going forward.

 

And in my opinion, for many jobs this is about time. I work on databases that are housed nowhere near my office, I have few person-to-person meetings (though to be fair they CAN BE an efficient way to get questions answered)...so shoehorning a bunch of people like me into tiny stalls in a loud room that had to sit in rush hour traffic to get there (welcome to "open and collaborative workplaces") is dumb. Literally the entire dev team had to buy noise-cancelling headphones so they can concentrate. It's a 1920s mentality to say everyone needs to be in an office, the internet-driven world has made this obsolete for many jobs.

 

Obviously some jobs aren't like this and can't be done from home. But I'm glad to see work-from-home, for those that want to do it--and I worked from home when my oldest son was a toddler, that's very difficult. Everything changes, professions come and go (imagine all the angst in horse-related industries when cars came along...). I would be sad to see live music go away but frankly it was already dying due to audiences willing to accept DJs and karaoke (tracks).

 

Everyone has anger over this and wants to lash out and blame someone for some conspiracy, the man wants to hold us down...it's a fricking once-a-century pandemic. Do people truly believe hospitals and scientists have some nefarious scheme to play this up? All the while believing POLITICIANS who, if anyone has a motive to lie, it's them. And they are very good at it, it's a job requirement. I'll answer that--yes, they do. My co-worker said as much, despite some fact-checking articles I sent him on whether hospitals were making money from covid...his response: "those articles are biased." LOL, everyone's in their own reality bubble these days.

Good post. Like you, before I retired a couple of years ago, I spent the last decade of my career as a petroleum geoscientist mainly working remotely from home. For white collar and tech jobs, the trend of working remotely from home was already accelerating before Covid-19 sent it into hyper-drive. You are absolutely correct that live music was in its death throws before Covid-19. If anything, as with working remotely from home, Covid-19 just accelerated the trend.

 

For me, it was a fun ride having the opportunity to be a weekend warrior and play live music in bands for 40 plus years. I made some pocket change and got to let my "Id" out, unlike a lot of cubicle slaves who live lives of quiet desperation. I don't anticipate doing much live music moving forward, other than the occasional gig or living room jam. It is what it is. As you correctly said, shit happens, things change, and professions come and go.

 

At the risk of sounding like an A-hole, rather than lash out in anger and point fingers, musicians need to either adapt to the new world (e.g. livestreaming performances, more session work, etc.) or perhaps consider a career change.

Gigs: Nord 5D 73, Kurz PC4-7 & SP4-7, Hammond SK1, Yamaha MX88 & P121, Numa Compact 2x, Casio CGP700, QSC K12, Yamaha DBR10, JBL515xt(2). Alto TS310(2)

 

 

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Live stream isn't a good model, let's face it we are in a a face to face business where our energy comes from the crowd. Just because you are beyond gigging doesn't meant most of us are. Here in NYS people are already talking about going underground and doing gigs not unlike the prohibition days. Around here in the music scene has folded in on itself and people are starting to eat at each other. Like someone already mentioned they are looking for someone to blame. The whole situation is not good at all. There is no silver lining in this either.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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Read an article the other day that said only 8% of the normal amount of workers in downtown NYC are coming in. The majority are remote working from home and the rest are laid off. There are now surveys of the major employers saying working from home has been much better than they expected and will probably continue with it going forward. That has huge implications for every downtown city center in the world much less NYC. We could be in the middle of a massive paradigm shift concerning where we live vs where we work. We're focused on all of the music venues because that's who we are but that could be the smallest part of this. Once this pandemic is over if less than 50% and it could be much less than that, return to work in NYC what does that do to city finances? Real estate prices, leases and rents, mass transit and probably much more I can't think of right now. People are starting to have that same conversation in LA and especially San Francisco. Traffic density in the LA area is about 60-70% of normal which is great on the surface but under the surface, it's horrible for the economy if it stays like that. LA is in the middle of a huge revitalization of downtown around Staples Center and it's mostly high rise residences. If people don't need that to work downtown, they can work remotely what does that do to that whole concept? People start moving out and those buildings are sitting on 30% vacancies or more? Major disruptions are coming I think.

 

Most people think that's great if it happens. Much less population density, less pollution, less expense, wonderful. But, look at the economic side for downtown areas. All those buildings have huge mortgages on them based on the value of those buildings which is based on construction costs and income those buildings can generate. If a large percentage of tenants leave, the valuations get cut by a large percentage leaving all those mortgages under water and the banks are sitting on huge losses. It's things like that that cause big recessions. Oh, wait we're already in one now so this would be in addition to what's already happening. That's not good at all. Eventually yes, it will all work itself out and we could wind up with a better world to work and live in but getting from here to there? It could take ten years or more. Here's now it could work for one of those NYC venues you guys are talking about. There's a big recession in NYC because of people moving out and working remotely. The venue is on a lease. The landlord can't get out from under his mortgage and goes BK. The whole building is shut down and so is the venue.

 

Pretty much everyone including me have thought a vaccine and better treatments are coming, it's just a matter of time and things will be as they were. Now I'm not so sure about that at least in the large metro areas.

 

Bob

 

 

I think there is much merit here to the real estate implications of covid-19 and working remotely.

 

One of my 'other' jobs is as a licensed certified general real estate appraiser, which encompasses both commercial and residential real estate valuation. The loud sucking sounds you are hearing around major US cities is the exodus of BOTH city-dwellers AND businesses fleeing them in droves, due both to the virus as well as the rioting, violence, and crime. Home prices in the suburbs are rising with the historically low mortgage interest rates, and with the state of technology and remote connectivity, the covid-19 crisis has clearly shown that there are not many GOOD reasons in many cases for employees to report to a physical office, what with commuting, tolls, pollution, wear-and-tear, the price of real estate and cost of maintenance, etc, etc, etc.

 

In my 'other-other' job as a computer programmer, we have received numerous company-wide 'kudos' since March for how smoothly our operations are running, and how quickly problems are resolved. (FWIW, I spend MORE undisturbed, focused and concentrated time working from home than I EVER was able to at the office with its open cubicle / open floor plan.)

 

The coming months, even if there is a treatment and / or vaccine sooner rather than later, will be interesting to watch to see how things play out. I believe there will be a reckoning.

 

Music? (my REAL job, heheheh). Not so good right now. I'm hoping that once there IS a treatment or vaccine, that there will be a huge pent-up demand for celebration with live music. One can hope and dream.

"You're either WITH me, or you're AGIN' Me!" (Yosemite Sam)
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Live stream isn't a good model, let's face it we are in a a face to face business where our energy comes from the crowd. Here in NYS people are already talking about going underground and doing gigs not unlike the prohibition days. Around here in the music scene has folder in and people are starting to eat at each other.

 

My nephew recently did two live streams from a piano store in Oakland CA. They were duos - the first with a singer, the second with a violinist. The store's website had a PayPal donation link below the live feed window. He told me how much he made. I was shocked - it was a very decent amount â much more than anyone would make playing the exact same kind of gig in a club, unless you were nationally known and playing one of the top rooms in a city.(My nephew should be well known, he's a fantastic jazz pianist. I'm sure he's known in the Bay Area). I would agree that playing in an empty space in front of a camera totally sucks compared to being in a room with an appreciative audience â but, contrary to what I thought, you can make real money doing it!

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At my age my gigging days have been coming to an end for years, i've been lucky with my health otherwise I would have had to stop gigging by now anyway. Old farts like me have no clue how to set up a live streaming thing or even creating a video to put up on YT. I've been thinking about doing that just for some family and friends to see but I barely have an idea about how to do that and it would be a big project to rearrange a room as a small video studio. This shut down of live music is very disheartening because I planned to just keep doing it as long as I'm able and I keep getting calls for gigs. Now it's looking like that could be another year at least and will I even want to start gigging again at that point? Not sure.

 

As for working remotely it's been part of the corporate ethos that if they don't have a supervisor looking over everybody's shoulder they'll turn into lazy slobs who will steal them blind. Luckily that thinking seems to be changing but is it a true long term trend or will problems start cropping up? Never underestimate the ability of the average worker to screw things up just because they can or they're just stupid. Look at the sterling reputation the Post Office has. I've gotten much more cynical about that during this crisis. I was writing here 4-5 months ago that people are not stupid, they're following the guidelines and when we start to reopen in May they will continue to be responsible and follow those guidelines and we'll be OK. Go ahead, ask me how that's working out...I feel like an idiot for thinking that.

 

As a tax and finance guy I know quite a bit about RE valuations and appraisals and such. I didn't want to get too far into the weeds about that in this forum but I see bad things coming if these projections turn out to be correct. I know a lot of people think great, Trump is going to go broke with his New York properties but look at the big picture. Long term financial planning from an individual level on up to city, state and national planning takes years to develop and implement and a whole lot of those plans could be going into the dumper right in front of our eyes. Shifting tax bases, shifting demographics, transportation, energy requirements, so many things. And, now that we've had this pandemic don't forget experts have been predicting this for a while now and this is only the first modern one. Those same experts are saying more could very easily be coming because the underlying conditions that produced COVID are still there and another one could be unleashed at any time. A different subject but China needs to shut down those wet markets and other countries have to do the same with all the other incredibly unsanitary conditions in so many other parts of the world. Sigh, impossible I know.

 

Now that we're forced to take this seriously this could be like after the 9/11 attacks. Look at the permanent security procedures at airports, ports and other places. Every time I watch an old movie or TV show that has a scene at an airport I think, wow, wasn't that so easy then? Just walk right up to the ticket counter, check in and go to the gate and anybody can go with you, you can say goodby, you can wave at your kids as you get on the plane, all that stuff. Not any more. What's the new health related procedures we will have to live with going forward now? Our world is changing big time. Again.

 

Bob

Hammond SK1, Mojo 61, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff...
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That is definitely how they think. Realistically, most of the supervisors wouldn't be able to tell if any work was being done if they stood three feet behind the person all day. You need a system of requirements and enough organization to know how everyone is doing with their tasks--and if you have that, it doesn't matter where people are physically.

 

The other aspect is the "here is my fiefdom" show off mentality, which I have seen many times as managers from other departments and vendors get to walk through our area like we are Disney animatronics. "If you look to the right, the programmers are coding the new application!"

 

Some people will goof off if they are allowed to do so, whether in the office or at home. Heck my dad used to tell me stories about working at the space center in the 70s and 80s where certain teams of people would just take naps all afternoon when things weren't all that busy.

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Believing Cuomo has gone off the deep end in targeting live music has nothing to do with being a COVID hoaxer. But I guess it makes me feel better to know that now, he is also targeting dancing, darts, "corn holing" (I don't even want to know what that is) and other things. The science is settled: Anything FUN spreads the virus :). Which explains why I've been safe the last few months, as I haven't had much fun.
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"corn holing" (I don't even want to know what that is)

[video:youtube]

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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Thanks to mate stubb for clearing that up! @ Joe, Beavis and Butthead did come to mind. Ha.

 

The live music I have been playing is actually kind of dead, anyway. 5 guys wheezing through the same couple dozen classic rock songs, fighting the bugs, rain, mud, dirt and heat. Comparing notes on how old we're getting.

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I can see it now. Venues with a 3 hotdog minimum. At $10 each.

 

Hee hee. Ironically That wouldn't be too bad in Australia as too many food shops here charge $10 for a hotdog anyway (hamburgers up to 25 bux) and that was last year before covid extra costs. I don't drink so going to hotdogs instead of drinks as a cover charge would work for me hee hee.

 

Bloody expensive over here so at least id get food for my cover charge for the music. And a good hotdog is a joy.

 

Hope you guys gets some gigs. Im expecting maybe i wont get gigging again due to age and health. My bass player just quit after selling up his house to move to the country as our lockdown here is severe. Hes retiring from work. Here in Melbourne we are stage 4 lock down so i cant see gigging for years to be honest. People literally going to jail for indiscretions to the state in different parts of the country. Melbourne was Australias music capital now its tumbleweed city.

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Here's a link about Van Morrison. I'm not posting it because of his opinions that I disagree with, I'm posting this because scrolling down there is a very cool pic of a pretty large live concert in England. It's pretty cool what they did to get that many people into that field and still keep them in small groups.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/aug/25/van-morrison-blasts-covid-gig-limits-pseudoscience

 

Bob

Hammond SK1, Mojo 61, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff...
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I'm posting this because scrolling down there is a very cool pic of a pretty large live concert...

 

I saw this on Facebook and someone commented this picture was reminiscent of Pink Floyd"s 'A Momentary Lapse of Reason' album cover at first glance.

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destroying whats left of our once great city in preparation for the great reset.

what's "great reset'.

 

Look up 'World Economic Forum'+'The Great Reset'

 

Also, IF you want a firsthand picture of our NYC Dumpster Fire courtesy of Emperor Nipple Rings (Cuomo) and Blas, sign up for the Smalls Live News letter (www,smallslivenyc.com..... I believe, or just internet search it'

 

Spike Willner is fighting the good fight!

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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Believing Cuomo has gone off the deep end in targeting live music has nothing to do with being a COVID hoaxer. But I guess it makes me feel better to know that now, he is also targeting dancing, darts, "corn holing" (I don't even want to know what that is) and other things. The science is settled: Anything FUN spreads the virus :). Which explains why I've been safe the last few months, as I haven't had much fun.

 

 

Yes, agreed, although if you really dig, you"ll start to smell bs, and you just have to be a critical thinker, not Mel in 'Conspiracy Theory'. But that"s on your own time, off the forum.

Believe me, I"m in the trenches and you DON"T know until you see it for yourself!

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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destroying whats left of our once great city in preparation for the great reset.

what's "great reset'.

 

Look up 'World Economic Forum'+'The Great Reset'

Great Reset is interesting... though I can't say I see the link between that and the rules about live music in NY.

 

Not wanting to get political here, I will post an even-handed response despite my own political convictions. My feeling about Trump and Cuomo -- not politically, but as deliverers of information -- is that Trump has so often been eyebrow-raising in things he has said that, even when he says something that is perfectly sensible, it is widely viewed skeptically; and conversely, Cuomo, because he more consistently comes off as thoughtful and well-reasoned, is widely assumed to be talking sensibly even on those occassions where what he's saying is something which might otherwise be eyebrow-raising.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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